Sony: Blu-Ray on PS3 has "nothing to do with movies"
Eurogamer recently spoke with Sony president Phil Harrison about the PS3's controversial Blu-Ray adoption. While responding to criticisms of the storage technology being used primarily to push Sony's movie format war, Harrison defended: "It's got nothing to do with movies ... we need Blu-Ray to supply the kind of data that PS3 games use." Nothing to do with movies? We were under the impression your employer spearheaded the technology's acceptance? C'mon, Phil. Can't you budge just a little?He steadfastly continues: "Already, at our launch titles, we're getting up close to the 25GB limit that we have on our Blu-Ray discs this year ... Not every game is going to fill 25 or 50GB. I completely accept that - but there will be games that require that this year, and will push that further in years to come."
That'll teach those skeptics! In related news, Xbox 360 and Wii developers have secretly been envious of Blu-Ray's added movie, I mean, game storage capacity. In case you didn't know, there has been an outcry by developers for years demanding more disc storage for games. It's reaching epidemic levels and is a big problem.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Patrick @ Oct 17th 2006 12:28PM
Oh man is this post going to bring the ire of the fanboys. I can't wait for the comments.
chuck @ Oct 17th 2006 12:29PM
Yeah, as developers we would need more storage, if Sony would give us more memory and more bandwidth to load the stuff. But where the PS3 lies in this arena is no better, and in some points worse than the 360.
eslim21 @ Oct 17th 2006 12:32PM
Read the full article the game is going to be filled up with FMV. I want to play games not watch them.
birdman @ Oct 17th 2006 12:32PM
Your right, it is a shame that there isn't some kind of technology that would allow disc swapping if more memory is needed. If only there was a way...
Irish Pride @ Oct 17th 2006 12:32PM
50GB of storage for FF.....so more room for the same old games.
TexRob @ Oct 17th 2006 12:35PM
I predict someone missing the sarcasm within 10 posts below THIS post, even with me saying it right here.
Buckshot @ Oct 17th 2006 12:35PM
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
(but seriously, do the divisions at $ony ever communicate? One side says this, one side says that)
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
logikil @ Oct 17th 2006 12:35PM
You know, i want to think that the last paragraph there was sarcasm, but i'm not sure.
There is a little dig there about the movie/game storage capacity, but i think it can go wither way depending on your point of view.
I posted on this at Kotaku, but i think the only valid use of this space is for higher resolution textures. AI and level programming is not taking up this much space. In addition, FMV cutscenes, at this point, should in most cases be replaced by in engine cut scenes, which generally only requires slightly higher res textures and scripting elements. 7.1 Audio is also not a necessity. It's nice to have 7.1 channel separation, but most people couldn't tell the difference between simulated stereo surround and 5.1 so while nice, it's not needed.
Anyway Phil, thanks for giving devs the extra space, at least for textres, but the other stuff is fluff...albeit 200 dollars worth of fluff.
Agent MOO @ Oct 17th 2006 12:38PM
Awesome, having mandrin chinese, german, spanish, french and klingon localizations will add to replay value! You might need to have a few different region locked ps3's lying around, but it'll be worth the extra money for sure
idesignit @ Oct 17th 2006 12:39PM
If we don't have to swap discs when will we ever get off our fat asses and get some exercise?
The Intangible Fact @ Oct 17th 2006 12:42PM
Chinese food sounds good for lunch....mmmm crap ragoon.
But anyways extra space is good, but its not really getting us anywhere. I just want good graphics and good/long gameplay for a cheap amount. Hd is taking up too much space and its not worth it!
OtakuCODE @ Oct 17th 2006 12:45PM
Software is a gas. It expands to fill the space it is given.
This is a law of software engineering and anyone with an inkling of knowledge about coding knows that it is true.
And for the record, there is plenty of market available for the coexistence of twitch games and more 'passive' games that have a great deal of cutscene content. I am a complete Xenosaga whore myself, and my only complaint is that the series is over and the games were hamstrung by the repulsive graphical capabilities (or rather, lack thereof) of the PS2. But my love of that series didn't prevent you from getting the latest Madden game, did it? So if you prefer games with less cutscenes... buy those games. I'll be buying the games with a deep story that might spur some sort of thought.
idesignit @ Oct 17th 2006 12:46PM
Considering by the time the PS3 launches there will be a grand total of 11 blu-ray movies on the market, Sony's president is actually sounding far more intelligent then one would think from first read.
Sony will have nearly twice as many games on the market in the launch window then movies.
Considering these numbers blu-ray makes more sense as ameans to allow for more data then a medium for watching movies.
Lorben @ Oct 17th 2006 12:47PM
"In case you didn't know, there has been an outcry by developers for years demanding more disc storage for games. It's reaching epidemic levels and is a big problem."
There were a couple two disc gamecube games, so we know some developers have been using more than 1.5GB...
Joe A. @ Oct 17th 2006 12:47PM
@1 How so? Phil's just due for the occasional foot-in-mouth comments that Sony heads must do.
I don't know what to think of his comments, though. Is he expressing a lack of confidence in the mainstream acceptance of the format? Or is he pushing the fact that Blu-Ray enables devs to not bother with compression as much?
Gerwurztraminer @ Oct 17th 2006 12:49PM
If the choice is between a $60 1-disc game and a $50 2-disc game, do you think I really care how much you can cram onto a single disc? No.
IslandLife @ Oct 17th 2006 12:50PM
Gee Mr. Snow, or should I call you by your initials B.S. yeah that's more fitting, It is becoming pretty obvious that you and "vc" are very anti-Sony. I myself have no problem with that, however, please don't let it effect you professionalism or lack thereof since all it does is provide fodder for the masses. I know that advertising dollars mean a lot to you, but to what extent? If you are so desperate as to continiously stoop this low in the faces of your readers in order to make ends meet, then seek out other employment opportunities. The readers, however, shouldn't have to suffer through your blatantly obvious fanboy drivel in order to get to the real news.
broseph @ Oct 17th 2006 12:51PM
It's comical that people think more space is a bad thing.
benny c uk @ Oct 17th 2006 12:52PM
he fails to mention that games using almost 25 gigs include loads of the localisations, so basically this = shit.
just look at the pc even the hugest pc games use only one dvd, its all about the compression and its all about how well devs can program and use space effectively.
obviously ps3 devs atm arent worrying too much about clearing up bad programming due to the abundance of space, this is bad practice but ultimately makes no difference and can decrease developement time, but still a bad habit.
ask anyone with a little knowledge about creating games and how much space they use and they will agree.
also dont forget those procedurally generated games popping up over the internet i think one was at about 70kb and replaced the need for over 500mb!!
disk space argument is moot because if space was that scarce for say gamecube or 360 then the devs would just use another dvd which would still be cheaper than 1 blu ray disk anyway
benny c uk @ Oct 17th 2006 12:55PM
more space is a great thing broseph but its all about the need, i have outlined in 21. that space issues can be easily resolved, and if sony are trying to say that the ps3 isnt for movies then they are blatently lying or the people working in their tech department arent very smart.
unless including all localisations saves money ??
Ray Hargreaves @ Oct 17th 2006 12:57PM
Wait, the PS3 is for playing games too?
benny c uk @ Oct 17th 2006 12:57PM
woops in 21. i called the wii a gamecube, they are basically the same anyway so dont kill me
32_Footsteps @ Oct 17th 2006 12:58PM
Why do I have the feeling that the reason games are taking up space is that the files aren't being stored efficiently? I can just see games where the music is stored as .WAV files instead of mp3s.
logikil @ Oct 17th 2006 1:01PM
@broseph
I can't peak for anyone else, but i am not saying that more space is bad. What i am saying is that to indicate that it is a necessity is false. It is not a necessity. And saying that the only medium capable of providing the cell with the data it needs is Blu Ray is rediculous. I mean are you going to tell me that if a DVD were providing the data, that the cell proc would up and die? C'mon now.
All i am looking for is a little honesty from these guys. It would buy tons of respect from me. Is bluray needed? Nope, but we opted to put it in as a conscientious play in the HD medium wars and to give devs more space to put shit in. Don't feed me BS about cell this and needed data that because, to quote Penn, "It's BULLSHIT!"
SecondChance @ Oct 17th 2006 1:01PM
I've invented the Joystiq comment section drinking game, thanks to inspirational posts like the one from Islandlife:
Everytime someone syas 'fanboy' take a drink
Everytime a fanboy accuses a blogger of 'generating ad dollars with posts' take a drink
Everytime a commenter accuses Joystiq of being pro-[something] take a drink
Everytime darryl makes a comment drink an entire beer (trust me, it makes him even funnier)
Everytime 'GameCube 2.0' is used take a drink
Whenever a Sony exec lies or tells a whopper of an exaggeration, take a drink
Those last two shoudl be enough on their own to get you sauced.
Everytime
Keeko_ca @ Oct 17th 2006 1:03PM
@ 20
It's ALSO comical that people think paying more for uneccessary space is a GOOD thing.
maylon @ Oct 17th 2006 1:04PM
Is it just me or does 256meg of memory for these "high resolution" textures seem um, limited? Will they be able to use the SPE's in some way for this bottleneck? I am just curious if anyone can answer this for me, because I have researched it and there seems to be 10 different answers.....
benny c uk @ Oct 17th 2006 1:06PM
at 28. im not gona blame them for that, all corperations do lie it would be unnatural for them not to, like a dog that doesnt poop when its outside.
but admittedly they are in the big leagues when it comes to lying
MetaHuman @ Oct 17th 2006 1:08PM
BWAHAHAHA sure, Mr. Harrison. That's why Square jumped to PSX in the first place. Room for FMVs. :P
Actually, having A TON of memory to store CAN be a problem. With so much content, games are more expensive to make and you can expect load times, which should have been done away with with all the power all 3 next-gen consoles are packing.
kodec @ Oct 17th 2006 1:09PM
I remember buying X-Wing for the PC way back in the day. It came on five 3.5" disks. Then its sequel TIE Fighter came on eight 3.5" floppy disks. Later, Wing Commander III shipped on four CDs, and recently DOOM3 came out on three.
It seems to me that whenever media doesn't have enough space, no one has any problem with just splitting things up between multiple disks. And with things moving very quickly toward digital distribution, there really isn't much of an argument for Blu-Ray as the 'savior of storage space'.
Byron Crawford @ Oct 17th 2006 1:09PM
You lot dont get it.
Sure most games wont need the extra space YET, but I can tell you this that ps3 games will have extra content then other consoles, developers will feel the need to fill that extra space, because now they have a higher peak/point to reach too, compared to dvd9 space. The added space is not only actually needed, but it breaks the psychological wall in developers minds that make them THINK they dont need more space, onnce they get blu ray disks, you will suddenly see "oh snap, i can do this....."
Remeber fanboys, that no developer ever said that they didnt get enough space from catridges, however when they finally got more space in CD generation, they found out what to do with it and then games like ff7 and mgs came out.
Again, coming into the ps2 genration, no developer ever said it needed more space in the DVD format, yet, again, we found that the more space was used.
Now you fanboys can laugh it up, but you know what, Sony have been wining the console gaming arena from the day they entered which now constitues 10 years. 10 years of sony ruling with 80 million unit gaps in 2 genartions. You can pitch your fork at any company you want, but I tell you this sony know what they have been doing for 10 years now, and its WIPED THE FLOOR, with even the most powerfull company in the world. I know which company to support.
And when its all said and done, you will have a ps3 just like you had a ps1 and ps2. Then you'll relaise, who the f*** runs this gaming shit. Its sony.
Also joystiq laugh it up, lol trying to make fun of sony as if this site has anymore respect from viewers. Maybe you didnt realise it, but sony didnt have to explain the way they run thier company, they run the way they want to, same way you lot tell people to wait up all night to find out information they already knew.
BMWM3P @ Oct 17th 2006 1:10PM
It's there anything wrong with having more space, 7.1 audio re 1080p for that matter. I guess it wouldn't bother any of you bitches if we went back to cd, have stereo audio or 480i. Bigger is better when it comes to storage the PS3 has it when they needed, the 360 doesn't. And you're only paying 100.00 more which would be 50.00 if you include life. So for 50.00 measly dollars up to 200gb of storage compare to 9gb isn't worth it. You're either cheap or stupid.
benny c uk @ Oct 17th 2006 1:17PM
33. all things must come to an end, look what happend to nintendo.
Also microsoft is a competitor of the unstoppable kind no matter what happens this generation and the next and so on, how can sony possibley compete in the long run, the truth is they cant unless they some how stop losing market share like they have been doing ever so slowly the last couple of years or somehow gain even more share and then keep that share untill microsoft exit the gaming market which will be at the end of time.
the gaming market is far to lucrative and expansive for m$ to even envision leaving.
sony has got a tough fight on its hands, this gen and the next no matter what happens
BklynKid @ Oct 17th 2006 1:18PM
Pffft, liars!
striderhayasa @ Oct 17th 2006 1:21PM
Wow...just....wow....
How do these sony executives even keep their jobs?
Mr. Fap-Fap @ Oct 17th 2006 1:22PM
The only thing Blu-Ray is about is Sony trying to push yet ANOTHER proprietary format on consumers.
And like EVERY other attempt in the past, it will fail.
And make no mistake- it SHOULD fail, too.
The LAST thing we need is a company like Sony (or any media company), who has a stake in the sales of the format as WELL as the media going on that format to be in charge of it.
Sony will NOT hesitate to screw other companies and us consumers if Blu-Ray were to catch on.
X @ Oct 17th 2006 1:22PM
I LOVE IT!
King Pharnace at his victory said:
"Veni, Vidi, Vici" (I came, I saw, I Conquered)
Bill Gates take note. The world is your oyster!
Xbox 360 ~ RULES!!!
Scourn @ Oct 17th 2006 1:23PM
I don't understand any of the complaints about having more space. Programmers compained they didn't have enough space, then they complain about having too much space. Gamers are complaining Sony's trying to make one devices that does what the 360's "accessory gallery" does in AV cabinet-cluttering chunks. If I can can get one device, that gives me the option of slipping in a game disk or a movie disk when I want, I'll get more out of it than any product in my living room - and have less gabling and heating issues.
Todd @ Oct 17th 2006 1:23PM
I'm still not in favor the really slow load rate of the Blu-ray discs. I recall, back in the day, sitting idle in front of my PS1 waiting for the damn game to load when I move from one area to the next. Am I destined to sit in front of this crap again?
If many games using the DVD format still have load screens, and the Blu-ray is slower than DVD, than what am I to expect in MY future?
I also feel that better forms of compression are needed, not larger (and ironically slower) storage formats. Honestly, if the majority of the developers even remotely knew how to design a game they'll realize the real ability to make a fully rendered 3D world using the lowest file size possible is completely possible through new uses in compression. Offering up 50gigs of storage just allows developers to go dumb and find an easy route to their problems. I don't see this as a blessing, I see this as 3rd grade programming.
At least the PS3 offers one incentive. No more bargain basement companies looking to make quantity games over quality. The PS3 is too expensive for any schmoe to crap and hope to still make tons of money. The days of the PS1 are over.
Ash @ Oct 17th 2006 1:26PM
people can bitch and complain all they want but it all comes down to weather u like ur halo, Metal Gear Solid or Mario
I personally prefer halo and I'm all about online gaming,so I bought a 360 but some people prefer MGS and GT along with FFseries... for them ps3 is a perfect fit
and for people with younger kids and long tie fans of mario...(I like mario myself but I prefer it on my hand held) will by a wii
calling people stupid and idiot and fanboys arent gonna make them buy the system you personally like!
shase @ Oct 17th 2006 1:30PM
Joystiq is definitely anti-sony... none of the X360/wii news are tagged with sarcasm...
Anyway, i recall Itagaki saying NG was so big that NG's downlodable content were supposed to be for the game but couldnt fit into 1 dvd. And guess what those "downloadable contents" from xboxlive come from? Also, not sure if all you guys are developers or not but there is usually a requirement phase where people talk about constraints etc. Its always nice to have less things to worry about.
Also, havent this "blu-ray push" topic been discussed to death yet since the announcement? is this really news? Regardless whether we need it or not its there to stay - and with it great games to come like Resistance, White knight RR7 etc.
The Other Jason @ Oct 17th 2006 1:33PM
Everyone is missing the point... Cross platform developers are still going to develop for DVD9... why bloat a PS3 version when you are making good compressed game content for the PC and 360? Why put the PS3 version on a Blu-Ray disc and spend the extra money to produce them if you dont need to? Developers will cut corners wherever they can to save some money and make more off of every game sold...
I bet if you asked developers if they would rather develop on DVD9 and save $X on production of each disc they would jump at the chance. The developers that are looking to use that xtra room are the Sony exclusive guys who are obligated to make the system sell so they can sell their games. All the big developers will be using DVD9 even for the PS3... unless of course Sony FORCES them to use Blu-Ray for the games.
joe smith @ Oct 17th 2006 1:37PM
Why would anyone believe anything said about an unreleased system by an executive of the company? His job is to get people hyped up for PS3 and he is pounding the same old drum about HD and BD because Sony is getting hammered for it. I would no more believe Harrison on this than I believed Allard on Xbox 360 before it launched. The only thing that will matter is the games. If these games really blow away the competition, then they win. If not, then one has to wonder why the same stuff takes twice the storage on a PS3 as it does on a 360.
Personally, I would expect the main reason they need so much space (if they really do) is to have redundant copies of everythign to speed up the BD's slow load times.
Is more space good? Probably. Is it a system defining difference? Probably not.
Inspired @ Oct 17th 2006 1:40PM
Blu-ray not for movies?
Just for that, I'm jacking up the price of my PS3 on ebay. Keep on lying to me, Sony, it makes me feel better about gouging your sheep for your next-gen offering through an auction. Payday is just around the corner. Cha-ching!
Marty @ Oct 17th 2006 1:41PM
the only reason why that thing has a Blue Ray player in it is so they can win the High Def movie format war. Sony acts like the Bush administration - keeps telling lies, and pretends like you won't notice.
JC @ Oct 17th 2006 1:53PM
NUMBER 35. JUST TO LET YOU KNOW NINTENDO HASN'T COME TO AN END. THE DS OUTSELLING THE PSP 3 TO 1 HOW IS THAT AN END FOR NINTENDO. IF NINTENDO IS STILL YES STILL, MAKING CONSOLES HOW IS THAT AN END? IF NINTENDO HAS STAYED IN THE MARKET PRETTY MUCH ON THEIR OWN FIRST PARTY TITILES BECUASE THEY HAVE LOST THIRD PARTY SUPPORT ALONG THE ROAD HOW IS THAT AN END? IF NINTENDO HAS GAINED MORE THRID PARTY SUPPORT FOR THE WII THEN THEY EVER HAD FOR THE WII GAMECUBE HOW IS THAT AN END. IF NINTENDO WAS SEEN AS THE UNDERDOG CONSOLE COMMING INTO E3 THEN THEY STOLE THE SHOW HOW IS THAT AN END? NINTENDO SEEMS TO ME TO BE JUST BEGGINING. MAYBE YOU SHOULD EDUCATE YOURSLEF ON WHAT AN END MEANS A LITTLE MORE OR PERHAPS DEFINE IT FOR ME.
TRUTH @ Oct 17th 2006 1:54PM
Nothing to do with movies? Lying bastards! They are trying to dominate the living room with their media format. I'm boycotting every electronic this sorry company produces.
Sony Computers=Crap
Sony Tv=Crap
Sony Playstation=Crap
Bush's Integrity=Crap
Scott @ Oct 17th 2006 1:57PM
I hope the last paragraph about "developer outcry" is a joke. Devs are still using CD-ROMs for a majority of computer games. DVD editions of the same game always seem to fit on one disc. PC gaming has been "high def" for a while. How many people are truly complaining about having to play a game that spans multiple discs anyways? Never bothered me.
Jarsyl @ Oct 17th 2006 1:58PM
I think most people are failing to realize that this argument is covering two completely separate areas. First is the fact that Sony lied saying that blue ray is not at all for movies. That is true, but it’s just a PR spin. I don't care why they do things, just whether or not they do them. The other argument is that Blue ray isn’t needed for games...well hell, a ps3 isn't needed to play games either. I own a Sega Saturn and genesis still, and they are both awesome consoles; however, that doesn't mean I don't think companies like Sony shouldn't be pushing the technological barrier... even if some of the components like blue are claimed to be not needed. Besides, lets not forget for short sighted and stupid most people are. I'm sure a decade ago most people would have said having internet access in every home (much less a broadband connection) is not necessary.
joe @ Oct 17th 2006 1:59PM
Amen todd,
agian thats why i said your looking at 2-5 1st party PS3 games a year tops, as they going to cost as much as a major motion picture to make, other then that you going to have ports from 360 from EA and take two, and activision, the only ones that can afford it, that is the extend of the Sony game libary for the next 5 years.
no more werid japanese centeric games and all those old school gems, will stay as ps1 and ps2 games (part of sonys plan IMO)
the days of low budget playstation games is dead.