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Reader Comments (110)

Posted: Oct 19th 2006 7:57AM (Unverified) said

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Rival:

Actually, I was responding to Lefty. He basically made the same statement I made in the post above his.

As for the 360 supporting 1080, this is new to me. Though, gives more reason for Microsoft to go back on their word with the HD-DVD supporting games... It'll happen.

Posted: Oct 19th 2006 8:02AM William Topping said

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@27, otakucode.

And who are you, Judge Dread or something? Software isnt a GAS. FACT! Otherwise it would condense on my windows during a temperature differential. Ok, maybe it wouldnt if the air wasnt saturated enough. But you get my point.

Posted: Oct 19th 2006 8:14AM (Unverified) said

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It's a sad state of affairs when we're judging games by the amount of disc space they consume rather than if they are good or not.

Perhaps the Official PS Mag will start giving scores based on disc usage... Resistance, Fall of Man uses 99% of the disc well IT MUST be worth a 99% review score!

Posted: Oct 19th 2006 8:27AM johnlucas said

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Evan from Msg #75:
[[75. @John Lucas: "The Cinema Age of gaming where deluxe soundsystems & the movie experience are paramount."

If cinema sound and visuals are so important, why do people still watch television? Even without HDTV or surround sound, people still watch Oprah!...]]

I don't disagree at all. And I'm one who doesn't care so much about the ultimate audiophilic/videophilic experience.
That was part of a response to otakucode just mentioning that some people subscribe to that kind of thinking. He's one of them as he said detailing his audio & video requirements in his posts.

Instead of just bashing & slamming him down I rather decided to be civil. I don't agree with his stance which I've made clear throughout my comments but my ego isn't so great that I believe everybody has to see things like I do either.
That's why I said that's the beauty of competition.
He gets what he wants with his PS3 & XBox 360 and I get what I want with my Wii. We're both happy & so what's the need of all the fighting then? That was what I was trying to convey in that post.

The "Cinema Age" I mentioned came from a BRILLIANT author called Sean Malstrom who coined the eras of gaming in his article "Theory of Cycles".
http://thewiikly.zogdog.com/article.php?article=3&ed=1

I constantly reference this guy because I think he hit the nail on the head about how different gamers view gaming. Read that link I put up & you'll definitely understand his viewpoint & agree.

A quick summary of the article is that there have been 4 major eras of game design.
*The initial was the Tabletop Cycle which began at the very beginning of home consoles in the early 1970's. These kinds of games were closely related to gaming BEFORE the video. Board games, parlor games, card games, dice games, even books. *Thinking* games for the most part where gameplay was elaborate & complex & statistics were rich & detailed. He detailed M.U.L.E. for an example.

*The second phase was the Arcade or Burst Cycle. This is the era that companies like Nintendo took root in. In contrast to the slower, methodical gameplay of games from the Tabletop era Arcade/Burst era games were all about the *Rush* & the *Speed*. About the reflex. Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, Space Invaders, Galaga/Galaxian all those titles were about how quick & coordinated your synapses were. Challenge was heavy in this era especially early on. Storyline was either non-existent or framework-level at best. This is the era most gamers came along in. Play Mega Man 1 & realize the Arcade era style play. HARD & quick.

The third is the Cinema Cycle which in contrast to the story-skim titles of the Arcade/Burst era concentrated more on the presentation rather than just the gameplay. Trying to make games movies for lack of better words. This is the era we have been in for the past 10 plus years. This era is all about *Looks* (graphics) & the moviehouse experience. This is where storyline became so heavy in gaming to the point that people forgot that all games didn't always have or HAVE to have a narrative. Look at games like Resident Evil where FMV runs wild. Challenge was lessened from the second era because now the focus was on the looks & sounds. That's where otakucode is coming from. That's the era he likes. That's why he's talking about the right speakers & the right video output & all this Blu-Ray jazz.

The fourth era is one we are entering now which the author labeled the Social/Interface Cycle. With the overly long to get into, story-heavy titles of the Cinema era people are beginning to step away & concentrate on games that give you quick access to other people. Like World of Warcraft & Animal Crossing & the whole DS juggernaut with Nintendogs & such. The whole thing is about *Connections* now. Looks aren't paramount but rather the connecting experience is. Things that connect you to the game & the game audience. He put Guitar Hero in this as well because of how the game controller connects you with the game rather than just being a ornamental or gadgety thing.

The author said that the era you first contacted gaming with is most likely the era you are most biased to & how it colors your thoughts about where gaming should go.
I first saw Pac-Man & so my loyalty is first with the Second Cycle Arcade/Burst though I have love for games outside of that era. And that also explains why I don't see a paramount need for the very best in sound/video equipment like otakucode does who's loyalty lies with the Third, the Cinema Cycle.

He said game franchises from earlier eras get recolored in the new eras they step upon. Original Legend of Zelda was all Arcade but by Zelda: A Link To The Past it was already becoming Cinematic. Was solidified by Ocarina of Time. Final Fantasy is another example as this Tabletop-ish game became more Cinematic by the time FF6 arrived especially by FF7.

It's a good piece that I think everybody should read. The man's theory should be made official because he read it exactly right.

I agree with what you say. It's a big enough pond for all types of gamers to get what they want.
And my enthusiasm is for Wii bar none. That is the Future of Gaming.

John Lucas

Posted: Oct 19th 2006 8:30AM William Topping said

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@68, lefty

"Your argument is mute". Never, ever have I laughed so much after reading your banter with otakucode. Did you know that you made yourself a laughing stock by double posting otakucode's mistake. Personally I dont like otakucode, but you my friend are something else. I wish someone would mute you. Your pathetic.

Posted: Oct 19th 2006 9:51AM rpboyer said

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I remember the promise of truly immersive gaming that the CD was supposed to bring. I know all the gamers out there are clamoring for that High-Def version of Night Trap that only Blu-ray can make a reality.

Seriously though I think that having too much space leads to sloppy programming and bloatwear. Who needs to optimize code anymore when you have 50GB you can fill up with crap.

The only people using all of this space are those filling it up with worthless full-motion video. Sorry SquareEnix, but I think that having effective, quality in game cutscenes, with top notch voice acting is far more immersive.

Posted: Oct 19th 2006 10:17AM (Unverified) said

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I think very few people here are getting this.

Why ever would you NOT want more storage? Think back...when did you ever think the next gen storage media was not as good as the previous?

I think Sony have made the perfect choice:

1) It's not a bespoke media
2) It's good for retro fans (think in 2010 you can still play your 1996 PS1 games in perfect retro fashion, without the limitations of PC emulation
3) It's good for tech-fans who want films/latest tech.

And don't give me the 'consumer value' crap. When that particular consumer buys a PS3 it will be a few years away and for Sony, these Blu-Ray drives will be as cheap as any other optical drive within about 2 years. (you only need to look back to PS2 launching and the subsequent huge drop in price of DVD players).

As far as MS goes, their DVD drive in the 360 is fine..because they'll bring a new machine out in a couple of years which will trump PS3 technically and have larger storage than PS3. Quote me!

Posted: Oct 19th 2006 10:51AM (Unverified) said

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I won't even touch the technical aspect of this, but it really makes me think about computers. If there is space, it will be used. I look at how quickly the need for storage space has jumped in the past 20 years. My current machine has a 60GB drive with 40GB free and yet I can fill that up installing about 15 games with a full install.

The reality is, for some strange cosmic reason, when it's there, it gets used. I imagine the same thing will happen with Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. Although it will start off with just the pain points, not having to switch discs or only needing one disc for an install, I'd bet money that three years down the road, there WILL be some features that are only available if you have the bigger storage medium. Anyone remember when a PC game on floppies would have no real speach, but the CD version would?

Posted: Oct 19th 2006 12:36PM NavParker said

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How many PS2 and Xbox titles needed more than one DVD? 2%? 5%? I can count on two hands the number of Gamecube titles that needed more than one of their mini-DVDs (which together aren't as big as one single-layer DVD).

Posted: Oct 19th 2006 2:53PM (Unverified) said

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The thing is, the 50g of space will really only be used for things like extra cutscenes, or maybe extras like "the making of" videos. In game textures, etc are mainly limited by system memory and possibly streaming speed. Both of which dvd9 is equal or better than bluray. There is also the fact that the vast majority of the games are going to be cross platform and will have to fit on DVD9 anyways for the 360. I wouldnt expect to see much difference in bluray and dvd9 titles because of this.

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