British gay gamers get pitched

by Alexander Sliwinski { Oct 19th 2006 at 12:20PM }

UK gay magazine Attitude in their latest issue has the first video game advertisement specifically targeted at the gay market. The advertisement is for Sony's karaoke title Singstar: Anthems, which when originally reviewed had people noticing that there was a bit of a stereotypical queer quality to the track list. Looks like Sony went ahead and is trying to capitalize on that.

Although many complain about the fact that different gamer demographics are popping up (casual, female, gay), it's fascinating to see a major company like Sony actually take note of a specific demographic and target it. Singstar is not widely available or known in the U.S., otherwise it would have been interesting to see if this ad appeared in gay publications Advocate and Out. Gay brand loyalty is well documented at this point, so even if readers of Attitude aren't interested in Singstar, they recognize that a company actually targeted them as a consumer.

This is an indicator that video game marketing isn't just for the hardcore gamer magazines anymore. Companies are looking to diversify their audience as the cost of the product and general acceptance of gaming increases. Although game ads have shown up randomly in some major magazines, this niche marketing certainly puts a new spin on things. Attitude is still a mens publication, gay or straight, men still make up a majority of gamers. When game ads start showing up in Cosmopolitan, then you know something big is going on.

Tags: gay, singstar, sony

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)

Will @ Oct 19th 2006 12:32PM

And they wonder why their company and name brand are nose diving off a cliff.
So much for the "Family oriented" company orientation.

Sheesh

all Wii jokes aside.

Andrew Yoon @ Oct 19th 2006 12:34PM

This is an absolutely brilliant marketing move by Sony (unlike those black-white PSP ads...). Gamers need to understand that there ARE gay gamers out there, and that using "gay" as a derogatory word is insulting. We can all take steps away from bigotry.

Omega697 @ Oct 19th 2006 12:34PM

@1:

Take your bigotry elsewhere.

JodyAnthony @ Oct 19th 2006 12:40PM

I love it!

All I need now is to be able to sing Pansy Division songs (not quite sure how singstar works..is it only with their songs? whatever, pansy division = amazing queercore punk. everyone should listen to them (especially 'He Whipped My Ass In Tennis')

EdZ @ Oct 19th 2006 12:41PM

I'm not quite sure what all the furore is about. It's an ad with stereotypically gay firemen on it. So? It's just a humorous advert. Nothing unusual really. Maybe it's just unusual in the US.

sports fan @ Oct 19th 2006 12:41PM

I think it is about time. Business wise its an untapped market so why not? It never ceases to amaze me that there are still so many bigots walking around.

Duane Brown @ Oct 19th 2006 12:51PM

As a gay guy, I've to say this is actually a pretty bad ad if they wanted to target the gay community and the gamers within it. Who ever came up with this, needs to be fired right away. This ad will attract as much from a gay guy as a fly to vinager. Plus the awful stereotypes the ad plays up, I hate singing and picking what I can only assume is a game they figured all gay guys would love becuase all we do is sing, don't yeah know. Couldn't they have picked something else,.. like oh I don't know, Tony Hawk 8, or POP like game...ect. Give me 48 hours and I could come up with a better ad for the gay gamers who happen to be out there.

Embassy @ Oct 19th 2006 12:54PM

so wait...an ad with stereotypcial gay themes is for the gay community...??...

if i was gay id be slightly offended by the YMCA style ad thats supposedly directed toward my demographic..

reminds me of all this pathetic stereotypical "cool and hip" hiphop/urban marketing which ends up mocking the cultures it intends to attract.

get over it @ Oct 19th 2006 12:54PM

"So much for the "Family oriented" company orientation"

so will i guess if someone's gay they can't be a member of a family?

and as far as thinking it's hurting the sony name brand and company... it's companies that descriminate (race, religion, sexual orientation or any other way) that need to change their image, not companies that accept that not everyone is the same and reflect that in the way they market their products or services.

exclusion or ignorance aren't exactly the best ways to create customers or earn respect.

peter7898m @ Oct 19th 2006 1:10PM

So all the people who sent comments above apart from the 1st one are gay rite?

In that case from what i have read so far, u are all bigots. But "Will" makes a very good point, it will be damaging to Sony's reputation, there is little profit u can make out of it cuz the 'gay games market' is too specific, too small, aint worth it, no girls, thats the sad life, businesses want profit, move on.

number40one @ Oct 19th 2006 1:15PM

I got a laugh out of this ad. To all the other gaymers out there bitching about the stereotypes, don't be so damn uptight. The vast majority of advertising out there plays off of all sorts of stereotypes... how else can you communicate a message in a 30 second commercial or a 1 page magazine ad?

...and to all the haters out there, you can call us "fags" all you want while I whoop your punk ass on Ninty WiFi. (make sure you speak up on EVE too; I'm always in the mood to podd some idiots...)

get over it @ Oct 19th 2006 1:23PM

sorry peter7898m but no i'm not gay just tolerant and accepting of other peoples way of life... if you think that's the sad life you're the one who needs to move on.

crono141 @ Oct 19th 2006 1:30PM

You know, true equality is recognizing that we are all the same: gay, strait, black, white, brown, rich, poor. It is "bigoted" for an add to focus on just one demographic. Especially when the add itself is perpetuating a negative stereotype about that demographic.

Same with the PSP squirrels. Most definitely racist, just as this is most definitely bigoted.

peter7898m @ Oct 19th 2006 1:31PM

@'get over it'
Post 11 was to the response to the 1st 7 comments.

Sry but i aint moving on to be a gay, i prefer the 'male and female' approach. But Sterotyped games is sad, get over it.

Kurt @ Oct 19th 2006 1:35PM

hahaha. look how the one dude is holding that fire hose!

solomonrex @ Oct 19th 2006 1:39PM

Not wanting your own children exposed to homosexual themes CAN be a principled stand based on real faith. You might disagree, but it's a normal discussion in a democracy that has freedom of speech - where does your freedom impose on my freedom? Where do we draw that line? Europe draws the line based on it's atheism, we tend to draw the line based on the nebulous religous construct we call "family values". If you can have gay parades, I can have church rallies. It's not ignorance, and it's not bigotry.

But most corporations try not to offend, because it just doesn't help their cause of making money. That's "family values" here in the U.S., throughout the Middle East, parts of Europe and much of South America.

It's bigotry to describe an entire group as ignorant simply because they disagree with you. It's not bigotry to simply say that an ad will drive Conservative Christians away, that's just marketing reality.

Despite the political nonsense in this country, we still have more freedom of speech for corporations to make violent or sexy videogames than pretty much anywhere except Japan. Which is why I wish Joystiq et al, would just can the political stuff. No one cares. Adults have never been in danger of having their freedom restricted from blowing money however they want to.

Ignatius @ Oct 19th 2006 1:41PM

It's kind of sad when a company stoops so low as to take a minute to look at a particular stereotype and then tries to attract them using that stereotype. I don't see why insulting gays with a broad generalization reaches into their pockets.

I'm bisexual, and I don't find this shit appealing, just because a game has rainbows and pink all over it is not a reason to buy a game, it has to be _entertaining_.

Scooby Doo @ Oct 19th 2006 2:01PM

Well, on the one hand they are certainly playing off stereo types. As a 'gaymer', I know that what they are showing isn't reflective of the community as a whole. However one has to give them kudos for trying something. The good intentions are worth much more to me than the delivery.

As to the topic at hand...I say, "Thank God they're looking at different demographics".

Ever since the PS2 and XBOX, the industry seems to be offering us a lot more sports titles, FPS's and Adult-Content games with a lot less diversity in other genres. There's nothing wrong with those kinds of titles...I own several titles that fall under those categories, but this direction might just translate into brand new games, IP's, and genre's. That's a good thing.

As for whether it's a wise business move... It should be noted that the average LGBT household earns an average of 8% more than a 'straight' one. These are also people who generally don't have kids and have a lot more discretionary income. In fact, over the past year, LGBT advertising budgets have almost doubled. Now all we have to is stop all the pretty boys from spending all their money on clothes, gym memberships, and hair care products. ;-)

rasgueado @ Oct 19th 2006 2:12PM

This is a post to solomonrex and the other two...

There isn't a person here so far that has come down on the christian faith. No one suggested that you *couldn't* have a church rally expousing religious faith. What you've suggested in your post is that Gay and Christian are somehow opposed. You may not have meant it, but your post at least suggested that Gay people don't believe in "family values." People are perplexed why these kind of advertisements would "drive conservative christians away." There is nothing terrifying *or* offsensive in these ads. Even beyond that... there's no reason for this ad to drive conservative christians away because the ad is in Attitude ... if there are any conservative christians reading that magazine then they're like GAY conservative christians.

Babu @ Oct 19th 2006 2:15PM

I'm tired of this gay stuff. I find this offensive to my sensibilities.

number40one @ Oct 19th 2006 2:18PM

To peter7898m (#11):

Do you realize how much disposable income we have? Every gay gamer I know (there are more than you think) owns at least 2 consoles and a handheld, with vast libraries to go with each.

When you're not spending butt-loads of money trying to impress biyotches or raise your five children, you can spend it on entertainment products... like videogames.

Sounds like a marketers wet dream to me. Maybe you should click on some of the links in the post.

Maximoisgood @ Oct 19th 2006 2:20PM

if you think about it, it is not really an ad to attract gay people to play video games(that is one small market), it is an add to cause controversy(which is doing). Now for sony to use that Image is belittling(is that a word) to the portrayed. If they wanted to grab a large demographic, they would go for Hispanics in USA or Emmigrants in the UK, which have a much much larger amount of people in it.

JodyAnthony @ Oct 19th 2006 2:34PM

peter7898m, I'm not gay, I'm just not uptight about gay themes in anything. Besides, mainly my comment was to plug Pansy Divison, because they are awesome and everyone should listen to them

Scooby Doo @ Oct 19th 2006 2:40PM

Maximoisgood:

Do you really think the Hispanic community is a valid market for a game called 'Singstar: Anthems'? It's playing off the fact that gay men and drag queens in particular seem to have an affinity for music divas and the kind of songs they sing. Think Cher, Madonna, Bette Midler. This is basic marketing, not a slight to any other minority and I would have to disagree this just to stir up the pot. The U.K., especially London, has one of the largest concentrations of gay men in the world. There's no doubt in my mind that at least a few drag queens will pick this up just for the ability to practice their routines.

agent864 @ Oct 19th 2006 3:17PM

17, I would think that parents want to limit their children's exposure to sexual themes they're not yet ready to handle in general, not just homosexual. That's where the bigotry lies. As is, the ad was placed in a gay magazine targeted towards gay adults so no harm no foul on Sony's part.

Whether the ad is effective in reaching the target audience is another argument altogether.... obviously the ad is not to be taken too seriously its a bunch of steamy singing firemen for Pete's sake and does convey a sense of "party fun" that the game is supposed to deliver. So lighten up yall.

ChronoZaga @ Oct 19th 2006 3:20PM

God, Sony is so gay!

(Sorry, I just had to.)

ill trooper @ Oct 19th 2006 3:36PM

"When game ads start showing up in Cosmopolitan, then you know something big is going on."

Or vice-versa, when my Spliter Cell: Double Agent manual has a full-page Chrysler ad for the 300e in it, major advertising and video games are definitely hangin' out at the mall together, holdin' hands in the food court, sipping boba-tea.

peter7898m @ Oct 19th 2006 3:38PM

@JodyAnthony
look at the question mark '?' on post 11, that means i do not know or assume anything. question marks are very important, especially for media.

22 @number40one
I realise u have nothing else to spend it on, I realise that games is the only thing that makes u happy, I realise u have issues, I realise u r thinking to urself there is nothing more to life. But those 5 kids u say will be raised to eventually earn money themselves and have their own families and so on. Those 'biyotches' u call them, also make a living. You however will have ur games, bum fun and other entertainment products. But u and ur friends dont have as much disposable income to the 5 sets of familes or any family in the world.

Sounds like a marketers bad dream to me. Maybe you should click on some of the links in the post(the gay market is smaller then u think). General purpose games have more appeal and demand to it. I doubt ur even bothered to research the industry trends yourself but i understand if you are narrow minded.

number40one @ Oct 19th 2006 3:47PM

Solomon (#17):

Good points, but you forget that there are a lot of homosexual Christians out there. I know, I don't understand it either, but they exist, and in droves.

Also, last time I checked, protection of children's eyes and ears isn't in the Bill of Rights. That's a parent's responsibility, and one they should be taking much more seriously, imo. Nobody is forcing conservative types to attend, view, or support gay ads or events. But the religious right wants nothing less than to force us into seclusion, unless we're penned up at some annual festival. Whose liberties are encroaching on whose freedoms, exactly?

Fruit Brute @ Oct 19th 2006 3:55PM

For all of you who think gay gamers are a small market, I can provide you with numbers of people that come to our 3 month old website on a daily basis. It's just as much a valid market, if not more so than "girl gamers" who they try to market to with anything pink anytime they can.

T.T @ Oct 19th 2006 3:57PM

Hey? Did you guys know 1 out of every 10 men on this planet are gay? A recent study shows thats how many admit it. Next they also did a study about a year ago that about 60-80% of gay men are gamers. thats seems to me like a valid demographic. Just as valid as any race is. It is still people with money.

Matthew Greathouse @ Oct 19th 2006 4:08PM

Okay, I'm sticking up for Number40One...

Peter, you're response is a little short-sighted yourself. Why do you feel the need to try and put someone else down just to make your point? The reality is that brand-loyalty has taken a back seat to price concerns. It's the reason why so many department stores closed and the Wal-Mart's and the Target's took over. Or why GM and Ford can no longer rely on brand-loyalty alone and have major cutbacks. Companies don't expect future generations to purchase their product solely because their parents liked the company.

I understand your point, but there's plenty of good information out there that shows the LGBT community is a largely 'untapped' market. You also have to remember that the gay population is a big moving target. It's a lot more common for people to 'come out' now, however real data is hard to gather since confidentiality does not translate to people answering sexuality questions accurately. The fact is we can only guess at how large the LGBT population is in the world, and even harder to figure out how many gay video game players there are. There is still a modest percentage of LGBT people in the closet.

Number40One was giving his opinion and tried to put some humor into it. Telling him he has no life is wrong and belittling. Common courtesy is appreciated by those of us who log on regularly, although not adhered to by everone.

As for those that think the ad is in poor taste...I have to ask: Have you ever looked at a regular gay publication? Marketers, even LGBT-owned marketers, have been playing off the stereo-types for quite a long time. It's the same reason why a straight men's magazine is usually filled with sexy women and fast cars. Unless we do something as a community to change the perception of us, marketers will continue to use what they think we want.

Halifirien @ Oct 19th 2006 4:08PM

Gay gamer here, and I don't think there's anything wrong with companies tailoring their message to the audience. Flip through any gay-targeted magazine and you'll fine plenty of ads specific to the demographic. Most of the population won't even know the ads exist.

I think "The Sims" may have beaten "Songstar" to this particular punch, but don't quote me.

There are gay-inclusive titles out there that could benefit from that type of strategy. I would've enjoyed seeing a "Fable" ad that pointed out your main character wasn't restricted to marrying women.

peter7898m @ Oct 19th 2006 4:09PM

@T.T
Then clearly 9 out every 10 men on this planet who are not gay has a way higher ratio who are gamers than the gay minority, so business wise it is not worth it to make specifically gay-games. Games for all demograhpics would simply appeal to any1, therefore more money. This is all commen sense.

Fruit Brute @ Oct 19th 2006 4:12PM

It's also interesting to note that when we posted this ad a few days ago, the reaction to it was pretty much one of humor. People found it funny. I find it funny..But then again, when you are part of a minority that is constantly overlooked, you tend to latch on to whatever crumbs they care to offer you. I don't find this ad insulting but at the same time it wouldn't make me run out and buy the game. I personally don't care for karaoke, I'd much rather commit zombie genocide in RE4 or Dead Rising.

@peter7898 People might take your comments more seriously if you learned how to spell "you". Otherwise you just sound ignorant. Actually, even if you did spell it correctly, you'd still sound ignorant.

number40one @ Oct 19th 2006 4:14PM

to peter: (#29)

Hey, there's no reason to get nasty. I don't believe I insulted you.

You make very valid points about the future purchases of the little ones. I also understand that companies do have concern for future profits. But in the here and now, myself and those like me are able to use a high percentage of our income on "fun" stuff. If you think that the corps aren't paying attention to that, well, I can't help you there...

The very definition of disposable income is money that doesn't have to be spent on necessities. Heterosexual families with children are ALWAYS going to have less disposable income, no matter how many generations they spread their seed.

Oh, and I work 50 hours a week, as well as have a second writing job. I'm in a soccer league, I'm on the board of directors for a Silicon Valley charity organization, and I dabble in construction when my buddies are working on a project. There's lots of wonderful things in my life, including videogames. Stop projecting your doldrums on others.

I know that the gay market is smaller than the breeder market. But it's obviously larger than you give it credit for. Fags have brand loyalty up the whazoo (pun intended), and we're so into trends, it's nauseating at times. If you appeal to this particular market niche just right, you'll make quite a fiscal splash.

Did you know that, for example, nearly every American domestic beer company puts out advertisements directed specifically at the gay community? It's all over bars, magazines, papers... but Anheuser-Busch has no idea what they're doing, right? When those fruity (again, pun intended) malt-beverage drinks started making the rounds a few years back, whom do you think the distributors were making a killing off of?

There's no rule saying that marketers can't appeal to one group while trying to reach a niche group with product. The only hinderance is folks whose lives are so dull, they cannot help but to chastise a group different than themselves, as well as any corporation attempting to make contact with that niche group.

I'm all for "ands," you seem to be all about "ors." Who's narrow minded?

ben @ Oct 19th 2006 4:16PM

christ im gay and i play exactly the same games my friends do. meaning oblivion, guild wars, fable, GTA things like that. i wouldnt be caught dead playing something called singstar anthems.

peter7898m @ Oct 19th 2006 4:30PM

@Matthew Greathouse

you made a few good points but i dont see anywhere in my response(29)that claims he has no life. If u cud be more specific as to where my response was short sighted, that wud be gd, but my point was made clear that games should not be stereotyped to minorities. Business wise its a poor market, you may disagree but its too small to go for specifc gay games, general games will fit with any1 whos interested. Targeting all gamers is what business do, not charities. Most game companies develope games for all platforms to make sure their product is accessable to every1 who may buy it.

Maybe sometime in the future gays will become the majority, as it is encouraged by all politicians of most countries. When that time comes, game developers will take that direction as the money will be there, but now is simply not the time.

Ryan LN @ Oct 19th 2006 4:37PM

Peter7898m: Nine out of ten men are not gay? From what peer reviewed publication did you get your figures? To paraphrase Samuel Clemens, there are liars, damn liars, and statistics....

Be that as it may, I think it's a brilliant move on part of Sony to target as many audiences as possible. If I were a Sony shareholder, my number one concern would be that the board make decisions that would involve selling as many widgets as possible to as many customers as possible. Our gay brothers and sisters have money that is just as green as ours is, the only difference being that due to socioeconomic factors (and the fact that they tend to mostly be childless) they often tend to have more disposable income than us straight people with children who may one day want to go to college. While a specific game with gay themes may not be the most fiscally wise move, there is no reason why Sony shouldn't try to take games that it believes in good faith would particularly appeal to the gay demographic and market the hell out of them. This does not include pandering, transparently stereotyped fumblings that offend and alienate said demographic, but smart and well thought out spots that appeal to broad cross sections of a particular community.

I may not understand what it means or feels like to be gay, but as a minority I can tell you what it feels like to be ignored by Madison Avenue. That's why minorities of all stripes tend to be brand-loyal to companies that reach out to them and try to include them in the general mix of the mainstream. A great example of that is a story that my father told me that happened to him when he was little. My dad grew up in Columbus, GA, and in 1950 something it was pretty damned segregated. However, he had relatives who lived in Michigan, and every summer he'd take the train up from Georgia, through Cincinnati and spend time with his family up there. On this particular occasion, he had a dollar to spare, and he was hungry, so he went to a place which I detest- White Castle. (For those of you who don't know, White Castle makes foul little hamburgers.) My dad bought a couple of burgers, some fries and a soda with his dollar, and proceeded to stand next to the counter and unwrap his sandwich and eat it, because he knew that you can't sit down in a white restaurant. The lady behind the counter asked him what he was doing, and he thought that he was going to ask him to leave. Instead, she told him it was o.k.; he could sit down and eat his food and to take his time- he was welcome. For the first time, he had been made to feel like what he was- a freakin' human being that was just as good as anyone else. That was fifty freakin' years ago, and to this DAY he still insists on having a White Castle hamburger at least once a month- in spite of the fact that as a physician he knows that those things are no good for you, and in spite of the fact that they taste like warm dog turds.

Right now we are on the forefront of a sea-change in our culture, and appealing to ignored demographics that are marginalized by the rest of society just makes good business sense- and I imagine that an ad placed by Sony in a magazine targeting gay people wouldn't offend too many straight people, because I betcha the people who would be offended aren't *reading* gay publications. Good move, Sony- welcome to the 21st century.

Matthew Greathouse @ Oct 19th 2006 4:44PM

Ahhh...now I understand something. I think you have it backwards. I don't believe game wasn't DESIGNED for gay gamers. Rather, I could picture some young, fay tester, programmer or something got himself a copy of the game and came into the office one morning singing it's praises, "G-I-R-L-S!!!! This game is more fun than crisco and a bathtub of naked men. Me and my friends were up all night drinking Cosmos and singing ourselves hoarse."

The game was probably designed with a female market in mind, but if a company can spend $10,000 on an ad and get 10,000 more people to buy the game that wouldn't have because they didn't know about it, it's a wise investment. That's true whether you're talking about racial, religious, or sexual minorities. By your logic, every company in America would have to target the white-middle class because they make up the majority, right? Your statement lacks business sense. Marketers target niche groups all the time.

As for being short-sighted, well admittedly narrow-minded is a better choice of words. You still haven't explained why you though Number40ONe had no life? Which clearly he does. You're the one stereo-typing and resorting to insults trying to make a point that you're doing poorly on.

Matthew Greathouse @ Oct 19th 2006 4:48PM

And BTW...you're word-for-word response:

" realise u have nothing else to spend it on, I realise that games is the only thing that makes u happy, I realise u have issues, I realise u r thinking to urself there is nothing more to life"

Tomas @ Oct 19th 2006 4:48PM

i'm gay and this is bad gay marketing.

if you really wanna wink at the gay community with a title, you need to be more subtle than some stereotypical image that takes us back to the Village People days. Let's move past stereotypes, Sony, thank you very much.

To say that this ad is respectful and honors the gay gamer community is like saying that to cater to Asian-Americans, they're gonna have some guy at the laundromat playing DS with his eyes so closed you can't tell if they're opened or not. With a math book and some takeout boxes on the table.

my 2 gay cents.
~T

peter7898m @ Oct 19th 2006 4:49PM

@number40one
just like Matthew Greathouse u have made a very long comment and it gets boring reading them. Half the stuff dont even make sense, 'breeder market'? lol. I didnt think i was being nasty i was just copying what u said and turn the words around to make a good arguement. Comparing ur post with Matthew, it sounds like ur the same person, i could be wrong but if you are using different names to say your opinions then u r wasting my time.

Matthew Greathouse @ Oct 19th 2006 4:58PM

For the record... I am Matthew Greathouse, not Number40One, we've never even met. However I will admit that I am also Scooby Doo-hence why there's always two stars next to both our names. I logged on from home and forgot to use my screen name as opposed to my real name, not that I care one way or the other. Sorry for any confustion.

peter7898m @ Oct 19th 2006 5:00PM

@Ryan LN
sry dude ur post was too long i cant be bothered to read it.

@Matthew Greathouse
it appears u didnt read my post 39 properly, now im wondering where did u get those 2 stars from, lol

Intellectualdiot @ Oct 19th 2006 5:01PM

Oh look, men playing with hoses. I'm so aroused.

*Yawn*

Ryan LN @ Oct 19th 2006 5:10PM

Well Peter, you certainly read the first few sentences, which was the only part of the post that was specifically targeted at you. How do I know this? If you hadn't, you wouldn't have mentioned me at all in your post #46. Granted, juding from your inability to type complete sentences, use real words and punctuation, you probably wouldn't have been able to comprehend the rest of it anyway, so no biggie. My feelings aren't hurt. Thanks though.

number40one @ Oct 19th 2006 5:14PM

@peter7898m

You must not like to read much. That's okay. It all makes sense if you read it all the way through, though. I write a lot because I want to succinctly get my point across. If that's boring, then why engage in debate?

Telling me that I have no life and that I think there is nothing more to life may not be "nasty," but it's a borderline insult.

And no, I'm not Matthew Greathouse. The man's got two Joystiq stars, which he wouldn't have been able to earn if he was apt to use multiple screen names, I believe. He makes a great point that broad marketing and niche marketing of the same product are not mutually exclusive.