New motion-sensing tech is Wii-beater?
by Kyle Orland 
{ Oct 20th 2006 at 9:55AM }
Computer and Video Games has the scoop on a new motion-sensing controller technology from In2Games codenamed "fusion." The article says that the USB-based, multi-platform control system uses "sound waves and other technical wizardry" to sense the controllers position and orientation in space.
Sounds kind of ho-hum when both Nintendo and Sony are building motion-sensing technology into their standard controllers. But after a short demo, C&VG is ready to declare that the new system "offers a much more advanced means of control than Nintendo's forthcoming console." Indeed, a video of the system in action show a tennis racquet controller that mimics every real world move on-screen with incredible accuracy. Other videos show a bowling controller and a PS3-style prototype that splits apart for independent hand movements.
With Nintendo and Sony both investing so much into gyroscope- and IR-based controllers, this new, more accurate technology has the potential to be a spoiler when it comes out in Q3 2007. Forget the console wars... we may be entering the age of the controller wars.
(Thanks YimTaka)
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
crono141 @ Oct 20th 2006 10:04AM
If its awesome and cheap, you'll see it in Wii2.
Sony's motion thing will bomb and they will declare (like ms) that motion controls are overrated and impractical.
> @ Oct 20th 2006 10:05AM
Wow, the wiimote is obsolete before it even launches. Kojima was always saying he liked the wiimote... if only it was on the PS3, now he might have that chance.
BlindsideDork @ Oct 20th 2006 10:10AM
But Wait...MS had that revolutionary thing!!! The Wireless steering wheel, that is good with racing games and....errrm, RACING GAMES!
Haha, so what can you do with these controllers, play sports games and....
JodyAnthony @ Oct 20th 2006 10:06AM
sorry to be the nitpicker but wii and ps3 don't use gyroscopes, they use accelerometers. At least as far as I know. Please correct me if I'm wrong. (for the record, people, you can correct me without resorting to namecalling)
Paul @ Oct 20th 2006 10:12AM
Nothing prevents Nintendo and Sony (or even Microsoft) to upgrade their controllers in the future with this technology, as soon as it fits the controller design.
Anthriel @ Oct 20th 2006 10:09AM
The "revolution" is not the tech itself, but rather the wide and good use of that tech in games.
Microsoft could build a controller superior to the Wiimote given some time and money, but it wouldn't help the 360 at all, because no game would actually use it.
New ways of input are only relevant if they come right with the console itself, new alternative controllers will never have a user base big enough to develop games specifically for them.
This new technology might matter in the next generation, if and only if Motion Sensing becomes popular enough. Until then, no one cares.
Mike @ Oct 20th 2006 10:14AM
The problem here is that they have to rely on developers to create games for it. Developers will create games for it if there's a market for it. There won't be a market for it without games. Now we're in the proverbial catch 22.
penas @ Oct 20th 2006 10:10AM
thats the power of wii.
Zertoss @ Oct 20th 2006 10:12AM
One of the gripes with the Wiimote is that people will get tired swinging it around. Doesn't making a controller like this require those huge motions that will wear your arms out and/or smash your furniture?
Mike @ Oct 20th 2006 10:14AM
@JodyAnthony
Here's a correction without name calling. Heaven help me if I'm wrong. ;)
"The Wii controller hides beneath its glossy exterior a number of cutting-edge technologies. The peripheral uses an accelerometer and a gyrometer to measure motion and tilt, and likewise utilizes both infrared and Bluetooth technology to interact with a sensor bar (placed near a television) and ultimately to send information to the Wii console." And on technology difference between the nunchuck attachment as opposed to the Wiimote: "It's pretty simple, really. The nunchuck features motion sensory capability, but it lacks the Wii-mote's added pointer precision."- IGN
MrTsLoveChild @ Oct 20th 2006 10:13AM
they need to get rid of that half-second lag or it's pretty much worthless. especially in sports games where you need instant feedback.
> @ Oct 20th 2006 10:15AM
"New ways of input are only relevant if they come right with the console itself, new alternative controllers will never have a user base big enough to develop games specifically for them."
Theres this small game called Guitar Hero; in this case it would have made no sense for this to be the standard controller. Yet, its still very relevant; so much so, that MS made a big deal of Guitar Hero coming out for 360.
FuzzyPickles @ Oct 20th 2006 10:17AM
So you can swing a miniture little tennis raquet like a tennis raquet. And as for moving your character fully around on the court? I mean, if you can't do that, it might as well be a pathetic early 90s attempt at "Virtual Reality" with modern-day technology.
Not to mention, would such a third-party peripheral with such vastly different technology from the first party standard be developed for at all, save for maybe each respective sports game?
karby @ Oct 20th 2006 10:18AM
that's great!! now if only they could manage to put the functions of all 100 controllers into one convenient little device...
Foetoid @ Oct 20th 2006 10:19AM
7. "One of the gripes with the Wiimote is that people will get tired swinging it around"
Omg. One of these dweebs shows up every day on here. You dont have the wiimote at arms length to use it ffs. In a FPS, you dont point it at the screen and twist the wrist, it is ONLY the twisting of the wrist it recognises. So tyou can rest your elbow on your knee, or tuck it into your side, it doesnt matter, it'll still register. The Wii doesnt care WHERE the controller is in 3D space, just how it MOVES in 3D space. If zelda requires a jabbing motion for the sword, you could be sitting on it for all the Wii cares, it'll still register how it moved. People seem to get on here every day and cry about 'waving thier arms in the air, knocking over furniture and killing old people'....it doesnt work like that....*sigh*. When will people get it. Maybe these new controllers this article is on about, yes maybe you do have to swing em about, but looking at these you can tell they are only made for pure sports simualation anyway, you cant compare it to the Wiimote.
GregZ @ Oct 20th 2006 10:22AM
I fail to see how this is any better than the wiimote, at all.
Jadnice @ Oct 20th 2006 10:26AM
LOL.... just another WiiMote rip off.
What this really tells me is that Nintendo has a winner on its hands and that they lead in gaming innovation instead of being a follower.
Rob @ Oct 20th 2006 3:35PM
It's not really a fair comparison because I think most Wii games that have been demoed so far haven't tried to perfectly mimic the user's moves but to translate them into usable game actions. And they do that for the sake of making the games fun, which is what Wii sports will be all about. The game in the demo looks dull, boring, and cumbersome; whereas Wii tennis is bright, colorful, and simple. I definitely want to see games on the Wii where users control things directly, but not if it's going to make the whole game feel clunky and akward.
Also, the first part of the demo in which he's spinning his racket looks VERY laggy.
JodyAnthony @ Oct 20th 2006 10:27AM
ha, wii-beater! you're killing me
reminds me of this episode of the simpsons, where there was a newspaper headline "OLD MAN BEATS MEAT" or the Futurama newspaper headline from the brainballs episode, "BALLS THOROUGHLY LICKED"
> @ Oct 20th 2006 10:27AM
"People seem to get on here every day and cry about 'waving thier arms in the air, knocking over furniture and killing old people'....it doesnt work like that....*sigh*. When will people get it."
LOL .. have you seen the RedSteel commercials? Where that moron is jumping everywhere, ducking behind the couch, eat sushi mid-game! And, those Wii ads where with the IKEA living room and 4 people standing around waving their wiimote around.
Its Nintendo's own fault that people think you need gigantic motions.
ChuckSteak0331 @ Oct 20th 2006 10:40AM
That always cracks me up. "Wont all that swinging around and moving your hands make you tired and sweaty?" How fat are you people? I know America has a weight problem in general, but people must be really out of shape to countinue to ask this question. Go outside, play some sports, do something physical.
@15. But I thought when you play it, thats what happens? I tried using one at E3 and accidentally killed the booth girl by trying to play Wii Sports.
Zertoss @ Oct 20th 2006 10:31AM
@15
You missed my point entirely. The Wiimote doesn't require those motions like people thought. It appears that these do.
@16
I think these are worse than the Wiimote and the Sixaxis.
dvddesign @ Oct 20th 2006 10:40AM
This isn't necessarily new. Certainly no scoop. In2Game was demoing this pretty heavily at E3 and prior to that as well.
I'm kinda meh to it all. I'm not looking to have to replicate every movement known to mankind to play a video game. I like that I have the option to flick my wrist or go through the motions on the Wii.
I can't see any console manufacturer picking this up this generation because it's just got "accessory" stink all over it. And if it's an accessory, then developers won't want to support it fully since it's optional. These guys just got to market too late. If they luck out, their IP will get bought out by one of the big three (or licensed to all) and will get rolled into the next-next-gen systems.
It's really going to depend on how quickly their looking to make back their investment. If they've got enough balls and VC to try it, they could go the independent route and market their own console, ala Mattel's Hyperscan or something from Leapfrog.
BlindsideDork @ Oct 20th 2006 10:36AM
#18...and SONY never makes any exaggeration?
Is a BIG 3 really going to fly in the sky the night before it is released? Is PS3 going to really melt your home clock? Well maybe....
byronicman @ Oct 20th 2006 10:41AM
Hello!
Just to be clear, the slight delay you're seeing is software related (these are just tech demos). The unit operates at the speed of sound, which is pretty fast enough. And the point of the Fusion is that it is a USB device; that is, it can potentially work with any device which has a USB input. Check the front of those next-gen consoles. And, it'll only be around 30 pounds.
Groovy Guy @ Oct 20th 2006 10:39AM
As someone mentioned above, this doesn't seem to be superior to the Wiimote at all.
1)Senses exact positioning in space, requiring larger movements. Nintendo circumvented that by building in different sensitivities of gyroscopes so small and large movements may be used.
2)Noticeable lag
3) Rather large 'sonar' equipment is needed (white thing on floor)
4) Do you need equipment specific controllers to gte accurate feel?
5)Price and game support come Q3 2007, compared to Nintendo.
6)(I'm serious with this) Physical effects of being right beside sonar equipment.
I love this company's well timed announcement of their product, anything to grab another companies coattails and take a ride eh?
Nicholas @ Oct 20th 2006 10:46AM
What's that huge pedestal thing on the floor? Is it the equivalent of the Wii's sensor bar?
FuzzyPickles @ Oct 20th 2006 10:50AM
How is sonar more advanced technology than determining your position in space using LEDs? Hell, bats use sonar, and I think they're only 8-bit.
WizarDru @ Oct 20th 2006 11:02AM
I can see ways that this might be superior in design to the wiimote...or not. But here's the thing: I don't want to accurately recreate an exact tennis swing. Because my exact tennis swing SUCKS. I'm not a very good baseball player, either, for that matter. If I wanted to master those skills, their example pails to actually just going out in practing in meatspace.
Plus, there's the simple fact that they are a startup showing off prototypes, not a large console provider like Sony or Nintendo. Take a look at the console trailers for Wii and PS3's versions of Marvel: Ultimate Alliance, for example. How is this controller superior to those implementations?
Virtua @ Oct 20th 2006 10:54AM
Good luck playing games without sound if you want it to function perfectly!
maximus @ Oct 20th 2006 10:56AM
Hilarious how the Nintendo fanbois have got all wound up about this.. as for Nintendo the great innovators if you look back through the news articles it was in fact Nintendo who were frustrated that Sony came up with the EyeToy. Motion sensing has been around for ages, this company will surely be peddling these products to both Sony and Microsoft and if it is indeed more responsive that the Wii then great.
TiVo @ Oct 20th 2006 12:43PM
Iwata said it and i'll repeat it.
IMITATION IS THE SINCEREST FORM OF FLATTERY!!!
Everytime someone copies Nintendo it shows that they are on the right track, whether it is Sony, Microsoft or some third party developer.
crono141 @ Oct 20th 2006 11:00AM
Too bad the eye toy sucks, and i wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole
Huzzah!! @ Oct 20th 2006 11:09AM
Three Problems.
1) There's a half second lag. It's not even close to accurate. In fact, he as to swing OFF THE SCREEN just as the ball crosses the net. That's not what I call an accurate tennis experience.
2) Note how he is playing it in an empty, square, room, with a projector.
It uses sound waves, so if you have a TV, couch, or anything, in the room, it will cause errors in the system. Or if you cough. Or breathe. Or anything.
3) Those games look boring as hell. And, you need a different controller for each game. Like, try playing Tennis with the golf controller, and it wouldn't work!
In conclusion, I'm feeling a Virtual Boy #2 on this one. It's just too complicated, and there are too many things that will go wrong (Inaccurate controllers, too many controllers, will run out of games, no support, crappy games, etc.)
Because honestly, given the choice between Wii Sports Tennis and that game, what would you choose?
J rod @ Oct 20th 2006 11:05AM
The thing is, the Wii can do everything with just one object. Well, two if you have the nunchuck attached. But this system codenamed Fusion requires the use of several items that look like the real thing.
Nintendo Wii is still better.
Oncnawan @ Oct 20th 2006 11:05AM
This technology highlights a weakness in the Wii-mote. Most of the applications of the Wii-mote I have seen thus far are merely replacements for button presses. "Slash from up to down to perform X move. Slash right to left to perform Y move." That does not appeal to me. I have buttons to do all that for me, and more responsively.
When Nintendo announced the Wii-mote, I was pretty chuffed at the prospect of real-time sword play in-game. The Wii does not offer that kind of experience because, at the moment, all of the swinging around is not translated to movement in-game. Instead, you have to make some motion with the Wii-mote that is then interpretted as a given input, and then executed, just like button presses, or complex button combos in fighting games.
The replies on this forum are a prime indicator of this weakness. Saying that you can make small wrist motions or large arm motions and the change has no impact on gameplay just means that the Wii-mote is nothing but a button simulator. I have one of those already, it is a classic controller.
If, and only if, the Wii-mote can support 1 to 1 mapping of motion to in-game movement then I see a reason to get excited about Nintendo's new system, and not until.
JR @ Oct 20th 2006 11:07AM
They totally ripped off Nintendo AND Sony. Plus they were showing that position sensitive technology like it was the greatest, most original idea ever made. But wait, isn't that what the Wii does? Oh yeah, it is. Their way of acheiving the effect is different, but it's still the same result. Plus, the Wiimote is a simple design that can adapt to any situation. All this company has are baseball bats and a broken ps2 conroller. Not a whole lot to work with. A console like that could end up having a new controller released with every game. And besides, who is going to make games for it?
Pulse @ Oct 20th 2006 5:14PM
One reason the Wiimote is still better, it can be used for everything, who wants a different controller for each game they play? Thats jjust time wasting and rather stupid if you ask me. :)
Wiimote rules ^^
The Intangible Fact @ Oct 20th 2006 11:11AM
Just go play the real thing. Go outside with your baseball bat or raquet.
> @ Oct 20th 2006 11:14AM
"1) There's a half second lag. It's not even close to accurate. In fact, he as to swing OFF THE SCREEN just as the ball crosses the net. That's not what I call an accurate tennis experience."
Do you not understand that this is a proof-of-concept (tech demo) and not a ready for release prodcut. Dont you think that they will polish it up before release?
"2) Note how he is playing it in an empty, square, room, with a projector.
It uses sound waves, so if you have a TV, couch, or anything, in the room, it will cause errors in the system. Or if you cough. Or breathe. Or anything."
It uses ultrasonic frequencies; like bats. Traditional speakers will have no problems.
"3) Those games look boring as hell. And, you need a different controller for each game. Like, try playing Tennis with the golf controller, and it wouldn't work!"
Are these any different tha WiiSports? You guys are all ape over that. Again these are just tech demos.
"In conclusion, I'm feeling a Virtual Boy #2 on this one. It's just too complicated, and there are too many things that will go wrong (Inaccurate controllers, too many controllers, will run out of games, no support, crappy games, etc.)"
Too many presumptions dude; have an open mind.
Huzzah!! @ Oct 20th 2006 11:18AM
Let me guess, >, you're NOT buying a Wii?
> @ Oct 20th 2006 11:22AM
"Let me guess, >, you're NOT buying a Wii?"
Hey, i had all the Nintendo systems since NES. But, heck no, im not buying a WiiCube. I'll pick up ZTP for GC, play it to death, then hollow it out and use it as a birdhouse.
crono141 @ Oct 20th 2006 11:23AM
"Too many presumptions dude; have an open mind"
Look who's talking...
Mabui @ Oct 20th 2006 11:30AM
I think the reason that ubisoft said they didn't incorperate 1:1 swinging was the fact that they pretty well felt you'd get owned, seriously. That if you went up against an AI swordmaster, average joe wouldn't stand much of a chance and honestly shouldn't have too!
Nintendo didn't run with motion sensing control until they figured out a way to get rid of the lag that this model (Although, it could be software) apparently suffers from.
I wouldn't suggest they market to consoles anyway, that whole boat has sailed, what they'd need to do to get it out there would be to plug it into PC's and get some games supporting it, or at the very least, make it at first into a mouse replacement.
jharr @ Oct 20th 2006 11:41AM
> too bad they cancelled ZTP for GC.
JodyAnthony @ Oct 20th 2006 11:41AM
"I'll pick up ZTP for GC, play it to death, then hollow it out and use it as a birdhouse."
ok I normally don't agree with > because I am a huge nintendo fanwhore, but that would be the best birdhouse ever.
Time to start looking for a cheap broken cube on ebay
JodyAnthony @ Oct 20th 2006 11:44AM
jharr:
http://gonintendo.com/?p=7080
dont beleive every rumor you see online.
eb/gamestop is no longer taking preorders for the game. that does not mean the game doesnt exist.
WizarDru @ Oct 20th 2006 11:46AM
"The replies on this forum are a prime indicator of this weakness. Saying that you can make small wrist motions or large arm motions and the change has no impact on gameplay just means that the Wii-mote is nothing but a button simulator. I have one of those already, it is a classic controller."
Even assuming that this were so and slated to remain so (which is like trying to judge the PS/2 by Eternal Ring or Evergrace), you seem to be missing one of the Wiimote's advantages.
Which is easier to remember: Press-and-Hold-the-X-button-and-press-up-on-the-D-Pad, Pull-Right-Trigger-and-Press-0 or Make a circular motion to do a spin attack? This is both more intuitive and mnemonic. Does this mean the Wii is superior at all tasks? Of course not. But the utility of mapping actions to movements that mimic their actual onscreen action is a feature.
Look, for example, at the PS3 and Wii trailers for Marvel: Ultimate Alliance. Look at the intuitive use of the controllers. Shoving the controller forward to do a bull-rush makes more sense intuitively than trying to remember which of the ten buttons at your disposal will do it.
Further, I expect the PS3 and Wii implementations to be astounding by the second generation of titles, as developers start to innovate in uses for them....so the idea that it's as good as it gets already seems pessimistic in the extreme, to me.
jharr @ Oct 20th 2006 11:44AM
Nevermind. Just saw the update about ZTP. Disregard my previous comment.
DocEvil @ Oct 20th 2006 11:46AM
Ever notice that all these motion control demoes only happen in big empty rooms with sparse out of the way furniture placement?