Boy on boy kissing in Bully

@47. Look, take your bible preaching contest to someone else's blog, seriously. You're basing an entire hate on a book that was written 2,000-4,000 years ago with NO evidence of it's proof. There isn't even a word in the Hebrew language for "homosexual".

Oh, and sodomy isn't a crime, lawl.

@47

Wow, thanks for reading my later reply m8.

Hey Limey,

Just wanted to point out that if you think the US is homophobic, you should go check out asia. I do believe that Japan and my home country of Korea still officially claim that there are no gays at all. At least in other countries gays are recognized as a people(?) social group, whatever while in asia they are barely even recognized as being a living organism.

Oh and Probot (#23) good answer. WE MUST DESTROY THE SHRIMP!

@48. 'kay. Um, gay people don't go out and yell at straight people for vaginal penetration. Why are straight people going out and yelling at gay people for anal penetration?

What gives YOU the right, or anyone else for that matter, to judge someone based on who they have sex with, what business is it of yours?

I know how much people hate it when facts are brought into the discussion, but really if you have somody and are going to be calling people sodomites, well...two boys kissing does not equal sodomy. A girl going down on a guy--SODOMY, so you know, you may want to re-think that whole thing.

exactly 45... people will always have very different opinions.... i like my girls curvy n thick... like vida guerra, or ester baxter.... another man might call them fat... on the other hand... i would call his object of affection skinny or thin... i fully understand the concept. so just like that i FEEL that HOMESEXUALITY is wrong bad nasty etc, so u should deal with it... there are people that feel like me, deal with it... homosexuality will never fully be accepted in the USA. Face it. and frankly that gives me comfort when i see things like this "bully kiss" but i feel like u missed the bigger point i was trying to make. which was... why is the guy who expresses his opinion in one way 'wronger' than the other guy... if u feel that homosexuality is wrong like me... dont be a 'pussy'... .express youself... that was the bigger point of my post. and to the guy calling me pussy, u made me laugh with that incredibly intelligent comment lol. thanks.

You may have the right to say that homosexuality is wrong, but I also have the right to tell you that you're an idiot.

50.

good thing i dont believe in Jesus and have never read the bible. Ignorant people like you are idiots. You should know that all the major world religions ban sodomy. Sodomy is a crime in most countries in the world and was only legalized in the us by the supreme court in 2003. Dont take your christian and US centric world view and apply it to everyone. Everyone who disagrees with sodomy is not a chritian and everyone does not live in the US.

Go to any muslim country and look at the punishment for sodomy (its execution). Are they christians?

@52. So it gives you the right to call people who are homosexuals 'abominations'?

Isn't that pushing it a bit? It's _sex_, it's probably the most useless thing ever in terms of judging people. It's like hating a person because they like oranges instead of apples.

@ 55

i never said that the homosexual's themselves were abominations... i said homosexualitly itself is an abomination to urself to God, and to Nature, there are still no Homosexual animals... i wonder why .... hmmm

I think it is wrong to judge someone else's behavior as wrong if that hehavior has no effect on anyone else. It's like calling someone who sits on their couch all day wrong because you go out and work. If it's nothing bothering you, leave it alone.

Dude... 57, you just stepped it in.

Scientific research shows that homosexuality and bisexuality happens throughout the animal kingdom, and deny it all you want, we're animals! ;D

http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm

Enjoy.

GRRiMREEAPeR,

"there are still no Homosexual animal"

You should keep up with the news. (Not that homosexualality between animals is new.)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

Alright, #59, you're up. Okay, you put this in a whole OTHER arena.

Two guys having sex with each other hurts NO ONE. A guy or girl having sex with a child can HURT THE CHILD. You're not getting the point of what I mean.

If someone does something that hurts no one, why the hell is everyone jumping up and down and screaming, "FOUL!!!"?

#60

for every research paper you show me i can show you one that has the oppose conclusions. thats why there is something called peer review. you wouldnt know because you are just another ignorant sheep who cant question that he is told.

Whoa! well sometimes when u argue, or debate u learn something totally new! I take back the whole animals thing... belive it or not, thanks 60 + 61

minus_273,

"would you be creeped out by men who have sex with animals? why ? its just sex? why judge someone by their behaviour? how about children? polygamy? trees? Where do you draw the line?"

You draw the line at someone's behavior affecting a non-consenting other or someone that shouldn't make the decisions themselves, such as children. I don't have a problem with a guy having sex with animals or trees or polygamy (which shouldn't be put in the same list). None of those things affect me so I don't care about them.

"Two guys having sex with each other hurts NO ONE."

really? what about all the diseases spread through homosexaulity. Considering they rub feces on their bodies, it should be obvious. Then there is the mess of gay domestic abuse. In boston, the states gay men's domestic abuse project (look it up) estimates that most gay reliationships are abusive. Who pays for fixing that? biological diseases and social diseases tax the state and ordinary people pay for that.

minus i agree wit u bro

It's about consent. Adult humans can consent to sex. Children can consent to sex, but the balance of power is out of whack, so there are age of consent laws. Animals cannot consent at all, but as long as you're not hurting the animal, I don't think it really cares (plus, most animals are fully equipped to defend themselves if they do mind). Trees aren't like animals, I didn't even know it was possible to have sex with trees (a knothole?). Same with rocks. Inanimate objects are fine too by me.

Is someone else having sex with anything really of concern of anyone but that person and (if applicable) their partner?

Rofl @66, obviously science isn't in your vocabulary. If people have taken time to observe animal homosexuality in the wild, and in zoos for that matter, it usually means if it happened, and it was recorded correctly, that it was true. :P

Just because some guy gets paid to stand up and say it didn't happen doesn't mean it didn't. So, post away on some religious book spouting that animals can't be gay. I'm waiting for your source.

that's just fu**ing sick

@67 oh man... oh man... did you know that everyone can have diseases like those?

If you haven't realized, most STDs are through three things, blood, semen/vaginal secretions, and breast milk. Hepetitis however is spread through stool. Then again, do you know anyone who actually likes feces smeared on them? That stuff is _disgusting_.

Gay people don't necessarily like feces, it's NOT about just sex, it's about attraction to the same sex, not simply their parts.

The koran says this is wrong. Just another example of the west and their sick perversions.

GRRiMREEAPeR: I promise you that I do not agree with you. I deplore political correctness as much as you do, and I offend people left and right with my views. But I don't hold my beliefs because of what person A or group B will think of me for it. I examine the situation, get informed, and make a decision based on the information I can find to the best of my ability and am always open to change my mind if shown strong evidence contesting my views.

That being said, all research done on human sexuality and psychology points to the fact that all people, whether they define themselves as gay, straight, or bi, have bisexuality in their nature. There do not exist people for whom the erogenous zones do not react when presented with the right stimulus. When you add in a strong social exponent to the equation, people that define themselves as straight but feel an inkling of attraction to someone of the same gender cannot deal with it in an open way. They turn against that part of themselves and try to hide it by protesting as loudly as they can. This usually calms down when people get older, and it's a strong force during puberty because that is when people begin to define themselves as an individual. When some 12 year old insults some other kid and calls him a faggot, he is trying to convince himself as much as anyone else that he deplores homosexuality.

Since it is inevitable that the Bible will be quoted and such in a forum such as this, I recommend all Christians to read up on their text. Jesus said "Whosoever believeth in me shall not perish but shall have eternal life." He did not put qualifiers on it. He destroyed all other law that came before with that pronouncement. He did away with the 10 commandments when he said they could all be derived from the only true commandment: "Love thy neighbor." If you truly believe in the Bible and Jesus, you should examine your own views and realize how Jesus lived his life. He stayed in the houses of prostitutes and tax collectors, not preachers and devout believers.

minus_273,

"for every research paper you show me i can show you one that has the oppose conclusions."

Go for it.

As for the disease argument, that goes for every type of sex. It's not my job to make sure everyone is healthy. If someone has sex, they can take care of themselves.

Yes, taxes pay for it sometime, but that's a political problem, not a social problem. You don't force someone to change their behavior because the tax system is broken. And more money goes to far more wasteful things than health care.

heh heh, I was playing and I noticed one of the dudes had a

GRRiMREEAPeR, you are the perfect example of extremism in argument. Just because someone is supportive or even neutral of homosexuality and homosexual sex doesn't immediately mean they're supportive of child molestation or racial hatred. Don't be foolish, sex between any gender, orientation or number of consenting adults is a far cry from sex with children, animals, corpses... and however you managed to put hatred of any kind in your argument.

Hey Andron Mon (53!)

I'm not saying the USA is all homophobes, I love the USA, and I DO feel lucky to live here honestly. I wouldn't want to live somewhere like korea ever :P

BTW, a handy helpful tip for anyone partcipating in a discussion on Joystiq or any of the Weblogs, Inc blogs... don't respond to posts by using their number, use the posters name. The number can CHANGE between when you see it and when your comment is posted. If I start writing a comment, and 5 other comments are written in that time, mine will come up where I started writing it, not after those 5 posts.

GRRiMREEAPeR,

"KKK make a game, hanging blacks'n jews! for maximum damage! or lets import the latest Al Queida game!"

This isn't relevant at all, but these games do exist and I have absolutely no problem with them existing. I disagree with their views, but I wouldn't stop anyone from promoting their own opinion.

When I say I don't care about someone else's lifestyle is not about my fear of offending them. It's that seriously DON'T CARE about someone else's lifestyle. I don't think you understand how completely apathetic I am to anyone else's choices in life.

#72. is interesting. he is referring to the koran in his condemnation of sodomy. Lets see some ignorant knee jerk responses referring to the bible. does that make him a homophobe? if you call him a homophobe, doesn't that make you people who attack him islamophobes? care to attack the koran like you mock the bible and the texts of other religions.

I challenge to see pro-gay joystiqers attack poster "72. The koran says this is wrong. Just another example of the west and their sick perversions."

Tell me folks, is the koran wrong? how is it wrong? what about all those islamic states?

GRRiMREEAPeR: Some other points you should consider: Putting content in a game and not censoring it is not the same as condoning or performing whatever act is in the game. Games are fiction like books are fiction. If we take everything out of media that we don't want to happen in real life, we would lose a great many classic books and movies. If we agree to censoring games now, we will never have truly classic games that speak to the human condition and move people in a significant way. Games are still mostly romantic in style, with perfect heroes and unquestionably bad villains. Unlike in other forms of fiction, there are no really hard moral issues. I don't think banning those issues from ever being dealt with in games helps anyone.

Because you can kiss boys in Bully does not mean the developers want tons of schoolboys to go around kissing other schoolboys. The exact same way that being able to run over old people in GTA does not mean the developers want or approve of people running down your grandmother. Don't fall into the trap that people like Jack Thompson and other people have. Games do not relate to reality, and any depiction of reality in the game does not adhere to the same laws that reality does. Censoring games is as useful as censoring a teenagers diary. It won't stop anyone from thinking things, it won't encourage or discourage anyone from doing anything. In the book "A Theory of Fun for Game Design", the author makes a strong case for the fact that people who play games actually have a much BETTER ability to separate fiction from reality than non-game players because of their need to understand the abstract game mechanics underlying the fictional setting of the game in order to advance. If they fixate on the set and setting of the game, they will not determine what they need to do to advance.

ZOMG ... This would completely be a non-issue if it were girl-on-girl kissing; or girl-on-girl-on-girl .etc..

minus_273,

I put the Koran, the Torah, and the Bible on the same credibility level as the Harry Potter books. But that's a completely different debate.

Even the homosexuality debate that has wasted 50+ posts is not what this post is about.

Video games are a cultural form of expression. Homosexuality exists in the culture. It should not be supressed. That goes for anything that is part of our culture. I'm against censorship of all kinds.

About time. I like what Rockstar did with this game, even though I'll probably never play it. They're actually exploring an interesting part of society, adolesence, while teling conventional wisdom and social norms to f*ck themselves. Bravo.

minus_273: I do not know the Islamic faith as well as I do the Christian faith. I would mock the Koran if I knew enough of it to make my mockings substantive. It doesn't do any good to simply say it's a stupid book. If I knew it and were able to point out contradictions, or things like that, I certainly would. If you want to call me an islamophobe, go right ahead. It would probably be more accurate to label me as a faithophobe or mysticismophobe though. Any faith based on supernatural powers is irrational and opposed to human life, regardless of their claims.

Optimus Prime: You are probably right. The current viewpoint, according to opinion polls and the like, is that bisexuality between girls is only marginally objectionable, homosexuality between girls is marginally more, homosexuality between males is a good deal more, and bisexuality among males is the most unacceptable form of sexuality.

Rockstar has the view, however, that the future of gaming is in never having to read. Thanks to that, making Bully in such a way that you could choose to play as a female student would be prohibitively expensive. You'd have to do double duty with the voice actors. We'll probably see the death of any kind of gender choice in games as text (which is easy and cheap to modify) dies out. That would be a more interesting subject to discuss than boys kissing in a game, which happens every day in real life.

Crap, now I HAVE to buy another PS2.

#67:
"really? what about all the diseases spread through homosexaulity. Considering they rub feces on their bodies, it should be obvious."

LMAO.
thats the most ignorant thing i've ever heard. You don't have to be gay to be into fecal play, or to have anal for that matter. Sounds like someones stuck in the early 90's when AIDs was spread prodominently through the gay community because they wouldn't use condoms for anal sex, mostly just because they didn't exist, and AIDs wasn't a well known issue. Now it is, now there are anal condoms.
Now you just look stupid.

P.S. Hooray for open ended gameplay, even though making out with guys isn't my cut of tea, the more open ended games get the better IMO.

I am SO waiting for someone to say they support gay marriage between a gay man and a gay woman. rotfl

Hey!! Ppl, whats wrong with Rockstar :) For the few ppl that hate em, theres loads that love em ^^

I love the controvesy Rockstar creates, theres nothing worse then being a good little developer, making good games that never get on tv or in the newspapers, except for good boring reasons. Rockstar is the rebel, hey, aren't all teens like that? Thats why we love them so much :P

I'm not talking about fanboys who just hate em for the simple fact that Rockstar is more on Sony's side, but the fact that nearly every game released by Rockstar causes trouble, they are like the bad boys of the video gaming industry, I'd prefer to work with them any day then some of the other devs :P

Besides, why to you think thier games sell so well, well
1. Controversy = free advertising :)
2. Its the only real company making use of the "18+" and "M" rated sticker.
3. People like causing havoc, but we can't do it in real life or we'll get into trouble :)
4. GTA gives you so many options its unbelievable.
5. Rockstars games usually appeal to everyone, not just FPS fans or Racing fans, or Flight Simulator fans or RPG fans but everyone.
6. Its one of the only dev companies that is different to the rest, and produces games that are unique, people copy Rockstar's games, not the other way round.

Meh, no point explaining, be boring then :P

This is probably a bigger problem in the US than the violence would have been.

Then again, Fable had some pretty heavy male bisexuality going on, and no one said boo, AFAIK.

"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special Olympics:
Even if you win, you're still retarded."

http://www.argaste.com/img/arguing_on_the_internet.jpg

Grant: That only applies to those who don't seek new knowledge and refuse to be swayed by well-reasoned arguments which disagree with their own. Granted, that is a very large population nowadays, and people often make concerted efforts not to think about their own beliefs, but it does not necessarily include all people.

@ 79 minus_273
I'm pro-gay here, AND non-religious, but I don't exactly think a religious text can be right or wrong about guidelines/morals, because they are a completely relative thing. You can't say whether something is truely right or wrong, and that is why we DO have and STILL use those books. Withought religion, laws wouldn't have been formed, society would turn out completely differently, etc. You can't say the Koran is right or wrong, or the bible is right or wrong, depending on who you are talking to, what you're talking about, and whether there really is a right or wrong at all.

(Which brings us to the topic of whether there is a god or not, but I'll leave that up to you if you want :P)

@ 81: Yes you are 100% right XD

I say we have a little donation drive to expel #40 from the gene pool.

Really, number 40, you have instilled in me the blood lust Jack Thompson believes only video games can instill in a person. I suggest we motion to declare you a nuisance as well.

Oh, and one more thing.

I'm "in ur society, erodin' your christian morals".

And now GRRiMREEAPeR has joined my list of people 'to be forcibly removed from existance'.

Just so he knows.

I actually think the gay community should take a stand against this being in the game. Why? Because they're being used by Rockstar. Every GTA game contained many jokes against gays that took no prisoners, and now suddenly they want to support gay rights? Wrong, they want gay rights to support them. If this game ever faces a ban, Rockstar will make a big issue about it being solely out of homophobia, and they'll let the gay community handle the protests until they take it to the courts as an offense against gay rights. With that in mind, Rockstar can do whatever they want in this game and in their next few titles.

If Rockstar really wanted to support homosexuality, they wouldn't consider it a big deal. You could marry dudes in Fable and it wasn't any different than marrying a woman. The Sims is an obvious example but probably the best. In Bully, these kids are just kissing and Rockstar is grabbing for publicity.

It's pretty clear that Rockstar is depending on controversy to sell their games. In a few years they'll squeeze out a game where you fight for the legalization of marijuana or lowering the drinking age, probably gaining some government support by making the straightedge "gang" the villian. Wonder what would happen if the media just stopped paying attention. They'd make some desperate MMORPGs and then vanish from radar.

I'm all for gay rights, but I don't like a corporation playing with our heads just because they think they can.

I thought DOA should be Xrated :O

Rather pornographic if I do say so myself, it makes me wonder wonder what goes through the creators minds as they animate the girls in DOA, lol

They probably do rather disturbing things with the animated girls, I'll stop there before we are all sick :P

Anywho, whats wrong with Gays ppl? Gays are cool, and should be trated like anyone else, they have done no harm to anyone or have threatened anyones life in anyway :)

Im not gay, but I know people who are, and the attitutes pplo portray towards them in our modern day society is rather unneccassary.