That's a good comprimise on eBay's part. :)

That's a good comprimise on eBay's part. :)

Reason why I dislike this: Most of the PS3 resellers I saw had quite-obvious "bumped" feedback and ratings. Of cause I might be wrong, but the feedback and rating looked nowhere near legit.

My favorite part: a lot of those jackasses who bought a PS3 just for eBay are getting screwed over. Although I think they should just ban selling them on eBay all together, and then the demand wouldn't be so high. Most of the people I've talked to that pre-ordered, only did it so they could sell them on eBay, so if people didn't do that, more people who wanted them would get them (immediatly I mean). I don't think its fair to waste a pre-order on a person whose just going to sell the console.

What feedback does look Legit on Ebay, I use the same feedback saying for all my buys and same when I sell.

super buyer a++++++++++++++++++++
super seller a++++++++++++++++++++

"(with at least 50 feedback and 98% positive rating)"

Experienced scammers could probably arrange this withing a couple hours.

I applaud eBay for trying to put up some regulation, but they shouldn't pretend their outdated feedback system is an actual check.

All transactions must be through paypal!!!!

GoldenS1104: It says prior to launch. It does not affect people who are selling their console after launch.

If you have to put a picture of your reciept that means anyone who works at gamestop or EB will get fired if they put their preorder up for sale.

It does not matter if they can hack the feedback. What matters is that they can't set the price to $3500. Does not prevent the buyers from pushing it past that. eBay should also add that sellers should not be able to put a reserve for it.

But you guys are missing the best part- NO Buy It Now. That means they'll have to legitimately auction it up to the a reserve price, and the market will at least have a chance to regulate itself instead of artificially-inflated prices set by profiteers being the standard. People will bid what they think it's worth, and that's a lot better than being told it's a $1500 Buy-It-Now.

These rules have been in effect for a week and are actually a bit outdated. You can list 1 PS3 & 1 Wii and the 50 feedback requirement is flexible. I've seen sellers with 40+ 100% ratings be allowed to run their auctions.

Don't be hatin' on the eBayers. Luckily, I only had to wait 90 minutes at EB to get my pre-order, but if my options were to wait outside in the cold all night like I did for 360 or shell out an extra $1000 for a good night's sleep, I'd...oh, who am I kidding, I'd wait outside in the cold all night and sell that b**ch. That's a service, and it has value. And there are plenty of people wealthier than I willing to pay for that service.

That said, my EB pre-order is mine and eBay can't have it! But if I score more, you know where to go to bid on them.

JET

"It's a service" -- that's utter B.S. and you know it. If it were a service, you'd simply charge a fair market value to stand in line for someone prior to doing it. Instead, you're buying up all the product, and then giving people NO CHOICE as to where they must make their purchase.

If you buy up all the flu medicine and then charge people 200% for it, you're not "providing a service" because you waited in line to get it. You're profiteering and scalping and artificially inflating the product value in the process. The high price is not because you performed the "service" of buying all the product up. The high price is because you took away the option to buy elsewhere.

Justify it all you want, but profiteering is pretty slimy. Selling ONE PS3 is fine, but doing multiples makes you an asshole of gigantic proportions. (Pardon my French, but there's simply no better word.)

Why dont they pay someone like $200 to camp outside of Best Buy; i know a few people who would take that. To make it legit; you show up when the store opens and go in with them.

ZC, that would be true if general customers could buy up all the supply of PS3, but so far I don't know anywhere you can buy more than 1 PS3 at a time. I don't think the issue of people reselling PS3s will reach Elmo TMX proportions. I think anyone who reads Joystiq that wants a PS3 will know how to get one for MSRP.

JET

As one person said before; Isn't this just scalping?

Legal for everything, but concert tickets... lame U.S. laws...

""It's a service" -- that's utter B.S. and you know it. If it were a service, you'd simply charge a fair market value to stand in line for someone prior to doing it. Instead, you're buying up all the product, and then giving people NO CHOICE as to where they must make their purchase."

no, what you said is utter B.S. and YOU know it. Prior to the gamestop pre-orders everyone in America has an EQUAL chance of getting a PS3. As for now, prior to the 17th EVERYONE has an EQUAL chance of getting a PS3. If some guy who wants to sell one on eBay beats you to the punch and gets a better spot in line, then that's your fault. Everyone hear has a complete choice of where to buy their product. What it comes down to is how dedicated they are to getting said product.

You guys have to keep in mind that 9/10 of these eBay auctions start at the PS3's retail price. If someone sets a reserve price of $1000, then that's their choice, this is America, and it's called capitalism...sometimes you guys forget that. Therefore from the get go, if their is no reserve then the people resposible for driving up these prices are the buyers. If people REALLY want to make a difference, then they shouldn't buy them...but that's the way it is.

Low supply items with high demand have ALWAYS sold for more than their retail value, that's the way it is. Why do you think diamonds are so expensive? Why do you think limited run cars are so expensive? They both almost always sell at a higher-than-retail value. If the market gets flooded and they are more plentiful...then their value goes down to retail...get it? It's the way the econony works.

If you are pissed that some guy is going to show up to best buy 15 mins before you to get a PS3 for eBay causing you not to get one...then show up earlier. But for god's sake...I'm tired of people like you acting like everyone who wants a launch PS3 should be entitled to one on eBay at retail price. Your not, however, you are entitled to try and beat people their and get a good spot in line. If not, and you can't afford one on eBay, then tough luck, you have to wait until next spring. But don't think for ONE SECOND that you deserve a PS3 anymore than the next. If someone gets one it is their to do whatever the hell they want with it. End of story.

@dsub

Amen brother.

ZC, "If you buy up all the flu medicine and then charge people 200% for it, you're not "providing a service" because you waited in line to get it. You're profiteering and scalping and artificially inflating the product value in the process. The high price is not because you performed the "service" of buying all the product up. The high price is because you took away the option to buy elsewhere."

Your analogy is wrong. Buying a PS3 is not a necessity nor does your life depend on it if you don't have one.

And the frenzy continues...

I just looked at eBay. First page of listings there were 47 out of 50 of the auctions ending soonest that were at over $1,000 - with probably half of them hovering around the $1,400 range. (And two of the three remaining were above $900, with the last one not being for a Playstation 3 system).

I know that in EVERY single store I've been in for the last couple of weeks, whether it's EB, Gamestop, Wal-Mart (most of which are scheduled to see between 3 and 6 consoles - none of which will probably actually reach the sales floor), or any other retailer - no one is actually buying a PS3 for themselves. They're ALL buying them for eBay purposes.

One guy I know worked out a deal with some of the other stores in his district - all 5 managers have pre-orders in at each others stores, so that way they're all getting 6 PS3's - which are ALL destined for eBay. That's 30 consoles between them alone. You KNOW they aren't the only ones who've worked out something like this. And at an average of $600 in PROFIT per console - that's a nice HDTV for each of them after this holiday.

This shit makes me sick still, cause they're not gauranteed at all. All these people are buying is an expensive reciept that gaurantees them nothing. And then, they have to fly/drive (spend even rediculous amounts of money) to whatever store they got the pre-order from, camp out for a day or 2, and even then ... no store is gauranteed that any of them will show up at all.

The fact that they're letting people put nothing but paper slips up for that much much is bullshit, Ebay should be banning the listing of pre-sale items ... this is just rediculous.

Supply and demand guys. While it sucks for some, that's the way this country's economy works. If you don't like it, there are many other places in the world you can move. And in regards to the comment above about buying flu medicine, that's a lame example if you ask me. That's medicine. It helps people from getting sick or possibly dying. Nobody I know is gonna get sick or die if they don't get a PS3. It's an entertainment device. There is no difference between this and some guy selling OSU vs Michigan on ebay tickets for $500+ a piece. Go bucks!

@21-

1.The EB/GS preorders DO guarantee a system, they just do not guarantee it on November 17. If you have preorder #8, you will receive the 8th system to come to your store, whether it's on 11/17/06 or 03/09/09.

2. eBay buys don't need to "fly/drive (spend even rediculous amounts of money) to whatever store they got the pre-order from, camp out for a day or 2..." most of the auctions have the seller shipping the system to the buyer.

3. Nobody has to "camp out for a day or 2" if they have a preorder.

@20- Really? EVERY launch PS3 is going up on ebay? All 400,000 of them? Even the ones that are from stores that don't do preorders, like Wal-Mart? And 5 managers of what chain of stores? Sounds like you mean GS/EB, and as a former employee of that chain, I can assure that such an arrangement is crap. Fraudulent reserves are easily caught, and the company WILL fire offenders. Managers are willing to sacrifice their jobs to make less than $4000? There must be something in the air in that district.

And in general- quit bitching. Why do you think you deserve one any more than the preorder folks and the ebay buyers? The preorder guys showed they want one more than you because they got off their asses and made it to the store to preorder one. The eBay buyers want one enough to pay $2000 for one. How bad do you want one? Bad enough to moan on a message board.

If 400,000 PS3's are sold on ebay before the second shipment, you have a right to complain. Until then, stop whining.

I think you guys are *seriously* overestimating the actual demand.
It's a tough sell at $600...what makes you think $2,500+ will happen?

There are still no AAA launch titles (MGS4 is nearly a year away! WTF!)
Sure, you can brag about owning you but seriously, what is the actual appeal?

(It's going to be hilarious to see how many PS3s auctions end with no bidders...I kid...I kid...)

It's silly to say think that reselling PS3s on eBay should be banned. A (relatively) free market economy is how the US (and Canada) works.

Now, I've heard of the concept of rent control, where an artificial ceiling on the price of rent is enforced. Economics class told me that this is not an economically sound idea, but I can at least understand the motivation of wanting that to happen. But restricting aftermarket resale of an entertainment product to ensure that only people who will "appreciate it" will get one? Really, who cares in the grand scheme of things? It's just a toy, basically. To some gamers, it may be a "waste" to have a person pre-ordering a PS3 or PS3s for profit purposes, but to the *business* industry behind the product, it makes no bloody difference as long as units move!

Think of it this way: Since there are people who are willing to pay huge premiums to get one, the PS3 launch aftermarket will help make sure many people who want a PS3 the most (demonstrated by a willingness to pay more) will get one. You can't pick and choose when free markets should be allowed at your leisure (unless, of course, you're a government or multinational corporation).

Greg,

While you are right that if you have a reserve from Ebgames/Gamestop, they you do have a guaranteed system, you are wrong about the order of pre-orders coinciding with the systems that each pre-order gets.

I am waiting for a Wii pre-order (I was 5th in line) and asked the manager about this one. I asked if 4 only comes that day, will I be SOL. He answered, "However many will come, it will be at a first come/first serve AMONG THOSE WHO PRE-ORDERED." It won't be in accordance to your position in line at pre-ordering.


As for the pre-order selling business, it wouldn't exist unless there was a market for it. People would not do it if they didn't think that they could get away with it and make a sweet profits.

If people do not want this to happen, then they have to not contribute by buying these systems at a mark-up. It's not as if it's necessary by all means to get a system at launch. It's great, but if you have to wait then wait for god's sake!

As at least one other person pointed out, the people who have preorders but don't meet the Ebay requirements can still sell it once their preorder actually comes in.

Regardless of when some person's preorder comes in, it'll be waaay before PS3 inventories are sufficient or demand has died down. Which means that those preorder guys who want to profit off of Ebay will still be able to do so.

Chris Clark: Funny, because I asked the manager at my Gamestop the {exact} same question and I was assured that if they get at least 5 in, I get mine (I was #5). So there may be some store-to-store descrepencies, but I'm going to take the guy's word on it. Beyond that, I've been watching the PS3 preorders on eBay too. It looks like they're completing anywhere from $1200 to $1500. I think it's safe to say they're moving. And based on the fact that they're selling for at least 2x what they retail for, we can ASSUME that not everyone is purchasing them to eBay them. For instance, the guys paying $1500 obviously aren't buying them to resell them (or they're stupid). For fair disclosure, I have a preorder that I'm keeping (I got off my ass and preordered one for myself... waited in line for 2 hours. Cry me a river you didn't get yours). My roomie got a preorder and we're going to eBay that one. Would I have been happy with just one for me? Sure. Will I honestly think there's anything amoral about spending the time to camp to get one that we're just going to resell? Nope. It's just business. People who cry foul about this typically have sour grapes because they think the world should cater to people based on {desire}, not what you {do}. Grow up.

it pretty much comes down to HOW BAD DO YOU WANT IT?

when i waited for my 360, i was easger to buy it and play it for myself, and i didnt understand the ebayers- after i saw them going for a grand on craigslist later that day, it made sense. granted, i still kept mine.

but the dude who was saying go show up and wait before the ebayers is right. if you want it bad enough, you'll go get in line earlier. and yeah, in a way it IS a service- they WILL all sell out.

how much is your time worth? remember thats time in the cold, on concrete surrounded by nerds with no food/bathroom. not warm time in an office. I asked my roomate if he wanted to go camp for a PS3 just to ebay it. He thought about it and realised as a developer he rather sit inside and code to make $1200 for 12 hours instead of sitting out in the chicago cold.

the bottom line is everyone has a fair shot, and whether you want one to keep (who is this, i havent met this person yet??) or one to ebay, you're gonna have to go sit 16 hours in front of a store. deal.

Here's the results of the latest "completed auctions"
bids winning bid shipping date ended
10 $1,625.00 $50.00 Oct-25 21:39
20 $1,275.00 Free Oct-25 21:04
10 $1,030.00 $50.00 Oct-25 20:48
6 $1,025.00 $0.02 Oct-25 19:31
1 $1,495.00 $39.00 Oct-25 19:14
15 $1,225.00 $49.00 Oct-25 19:08

Note that some of these may have different numbers of games bundled, etc.

As much as I think putting high demand consoles up on eBay is greedy and ridiculous, as long as people continue to prove that a fool and his money are soon parted, it will happen. I think rather than blaming ONLY the sellers (which they deserve their fair share of it for distorting the demand and taking these launches out of the realm of original market transactions), the idiots willing to pay these prices should be ridiculed as well. Anyone who is stupid enough to pay thousands of dollars to get a game system before they even made an attempt to get one on launch day are just as responsible for this mess, by legimating all of it with their actions.

The greedy assholes are out to ruin another console launch once again *sigh*. When did this all start coming about? I never remembered any of this stupid shit for any other console until the 360. I got my N64 and Dreamcast at launch and don't remember any of this.

So then people like my friends Tom and Steve who drove around from 11 pm to 4 am trying to get an Xbox 360 to actually play it get screwed over so a bunch of people who have no interest in the system aside from using it to be a greedy cunt.

to 33: tom and steve should have left at 5pm instead of 11pm? I figured it was gonna be a madhouse when there were over 3000 people lined up andoverflowing the midnight best buy parking lot. i promptly headed back to my home bestbuy and got inline at about 6pm. it sucked, but i was something like 16 or 17, and i think they got like 28 premoum and 8 core or soemthing like that...

whing about your screwed freinds and assholes ruining the luanch are worthless. you want it, you go wait. what you do with it is your business. i was glad to have my 360 as i recently bought an HD set. i am not so eager for a PS3 and yes, i might go buy one just to flip it and earn loot for a free wii. call me a greedy asshole, sue me. or, better yet, get to best buy earlier than me and buy it for yourself.

lol @ your freinds thinking 11-4am was early enough to get one of the 400,000 launch 360s. I planned, froze, and walked away a proud owner.

better yet- blame sony, who a) cant make enough, and b) are still advertising the thing coming out like it is the must have second coming of christ.

A lot of you people are bitching about people pre-ordering to sell like its something that only happens with games consoles, it isn't. It happens with kids toys (tickle me elmo), new cars (audi TT, any new ferrari, bugatti veyron) and anything else that has high press and high demand.

The only way it's going to go away is if society as a whole decides it won't pay over the odds to be first. As thats not likely to happen and someones gonna make a profit out of it, I don't see why the person making a profit shouldn't be me.

Facists

I think that those of you who quote economics are missing the point. From a business perspective, of course you can and should be allowed to purchase an item and mark it up for resale. That's makes perfectly good fiscal sense. Although, what ZeroCorpse was getting at is that by buying an item in short supply for immediate resale, you potentially create an 'Artificial Market' that might not have existed if everyone was buying the console for themselves. In fact, I would have loved it if Sony went with a Direct Purchase scheme. If they didn't sell accessories, would the Brick-And-Mortar stores really care? I thought they didn't make much money off the console itself.

The reality is we're asking the question as gamers and human beings. Quoting capitalism is a cop-out for dodging a personal question. Personally, I think of myself as being part of a community, and I would rather a fellow gamer get a system at retail price than to have to pony up an exorbant mark-up. That's just me though. While I support your right to resale an item, it doesn't mean I have to completely condone it as a gamer.

The bigger question is this: Where should I camp out..? Best Buy... Walmart.. Target..? Anyone have any experienced they'd like to share last year when the 360 launched?

I think a lot of you are overreacting to this. The truth is that only a very small percentage of the initial PS3 shipment is going to end up on eBay. If 1,000 units end up on eBay, that's only .25% of the shipment. If 10,000 end up on eBay, we're only up to 2.5%. Can you imagine 10,000 unique PS3's showing up on eBay before the second shipment?

Let's go even further. Let's say 50,000 launch PS3's are sold on eBay. Even then, for every eBay PS3, there are 7 bought for gaming.

Think about those numbers before you go all crazy about "fascist" (by the way, that term has NO relevance in this discussion) eBay resellers.

Wow, this is pretty funny. Do people honestly think that the eBayers, myself included, are artificially driving up demand? Are we the ones putting up Sony billboards? Are we the ones making ridiculous claims about how the other systems require this and that? Are we the ones only releasing 400,000 units to satisfy the current PS2 install base of millions? I understand that feel like you're losing out on a system, but if you wanted one that badly you should have done what you needed to do to get one. I got to GameStop 5 minutes before they opened and there were still enough for 3 people behind me. So am I supposed to just not pre-order because someone MIGHT have come later on to get one? I also invest in real estate. Are you also going to yell at me when I buy a house in an up and coming neighborhood so that i can sell it in the future? There's a shortage. People will tickle me elmo it. Deal with it. If you've got the money and can't wait buy one on eBay. Even more impatient? Buy a 360. Resistance:Fall of Man isn't going to help you get laid.

You know there's another Tickle Me Elmo gets tickled to the EXTREME.(lolz)

Isn't it obvious what will happen on launch day?

Oh you Americans and your NON-STOP devotion to utter greed and capitalism by any means necessary.

I think standing in line to to buy something for the SOLE PURPOSE of "flipping it" and turning a profit is pretty shitty and lame thing to do. Just can't stand the sight of potential money and not jump on it huh?

I think I see some babies you could steal candy from and re-sell it back to - wanna line up for that too?

But hey ... greed's your thing. What else is there to say.

This reminds me of the days when the "new" star wars figures came out. If you had an original 1977 Darth Vader, it was worth something. If you bought the 1995 release Darth Vader, it was worth $6. People only bought these figures to put them on eBay. I worked for Toys R Us, I would know. A "half-circle" Boba Fett would fetch $120, and a Princess Leia would go for $200.

But the moral of the story is the people bought these things to resell them, not to enjoy them.

If your early adopters are doing nothing more than trying to make money off your system you are unlikely to sell games and accessories to the soccer mom or impatient 12 year old that has to have everything who just dropped $3000.00 on a PS3 on ebay (which will probably be defective any with the way that productions is being rushed... Seriously, does anyone have a PS2 from launch that lasted more than 6 months.)

Sony will fail, GAME OVER.

@43, cello:

"Oh you Americans and your NON-STOP devotion to utter greed and capitalism by any means necessary."

EVERYONE is greedy. Why do you think Communism tends to fail so spectacularly over time? The people in charge want to have more than the people below them. To pretend like you have {no} greed is just delusional.

"I think standing in line to to buy something for the SOLE PURPOSE of "flipping it" and turning a profit is pretty shitty and lame thing to do. Just can't stand the sight of potential money and not jump on it huh?"

Well, it's a chance to make money on something for doing a few hours of work (that other people won't do), while not breaking any laws. Your ethics may vary, but I don't think that purchasing something to resell it is particularly underhanded (see lots of comments about real estate, stock, et al). It's just that {you} want one now and {you} don't feel like/didn't think to camp the night away for one, so {we} should feel bad about it. Sorry, I don't.

"I think I see some babies you could steal candy from and re-sell it back to - wanna line up for that too?

But hey ... greed's your thing. What else is there to say."

Well, no, I wouldn't. Because that would be STEALING. Would someone else like to throw some more straw men in here? I've heard buying an entertainment device to resell it compared to stealing and hoarding medicine. Also note that there are very few people that are actually hoarding these things (purchasing large numbers as an organised group/individual in order to take them off of the market temporarily to drive up demand). If {anyone} can be made responsible for the increase in demand by depriving paying customers of supply, it's Sony.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: If you went and preordered a PS3 for yourself, and someone stopped you in the parking lot after you picked it up, offering to pay you $2000 for it, alot of you would probably take it. Or definitely think about it. If not $2k, most everyone has a price they'll part with their beloved PS3 for, and some people are just a bit more agressive about getting that price.

Last point: 90% eBayers have {no} way of getting preferential treatment towards getting a PS3. They got one the same way you could. Just grow up and take it like a man.

To Akbar,

Good for you. Stand in line at 5am, buy your toy and re-sell it on EBay. No one's stopping you or trying to make you "feel bad"

Doesn't change the fact that I think it's a pretty lame and shitty thing to do.

Stocks and real-estate eh? hahaha. Nice comparison there boy - trying to sound like a grown-up are we? You knee-deep in the Wall St game now too? I'm suuure you are. *rolls eyes* / *makes jerking off motion*

I tend to buy things I want. I guess you buy things you can sell. Do you also buy up all the newspapers on a big news day and sell those too. Look, a new business model for ya!

Be greedy and be "happy" ... I honestly don't care about you. It's just too bad people like you ruin it for people who, you know, ACTUALLY WANT a ps3 to play and own.

Are you kidding me, cello? I {am} getting a PS3 for me. I got up, so did my roomie. We're actually selling his, I'm going to play the hell out of mine. And you're right, I don't actually play alot of stocks or real estate. But it really isn't because I'm not a big boy, nor is it because I'm too busy "jerking off." I just don't feel like investing the time in it.

Now here's what you've got. My roomate and I are both professional programmers (big boys, mind you), and we decided that it was worth him going out to make sure that {I} got a PS3 preorder by hitting different GS/EBs. We wound up with two preorders. Guess what? we're not keeping the second one. So there you have two people that were willing to take a half day off work to camp the lines in order to get a PS3. It really wasn't so very hard. I {do} have a bit more sympathy for the few people who just missed the last of the line, because they were too late. But just a bit.

And I'm not ruining it for anyone. The fact that you {have} to camp out for two hours to get one is more likely to be the problem, don't you think? Blame Sony. If they could supply even 360 numbers, then the problem wouldn't be nearly so drastic. But I imagine that this post is kind of pointless since instead of thinking about this rationally, you'll just make more comments about me being immature while "mak[ing] jerking off motion[s]." A response I associate with gentlemen and diplomats.

Cello,

You and everyone else make it seem like it is necessary for people to have a PS3 and that they are somehow forced to buy them at a higher price. The fact of the matter is, if there is a market then there will be people to exploit that market. It doesn't happen the other way around. Sure, there would have been more systems going directly into the hands of buyers if no ebayer bought one for personal gain, but there still would've been a shortage. There still would've been people who didn't get one and are now willing to buy one at any cost.

The argument that people are being "forced" to buy something at a certain price or at all, falls flat. This is similar to the ridiculous argument people make about how Sony is "forcing" people to buy a Blu-Ray player with their PS3. Ummm, if you don't want to pay for a movie player with your game system, then don't buy a PS3. Buy a Wii or a 360. Sony is merely packaging the component together as a feature, take it or leave it. While we're using that argument, why don't we also say that they are "forcing" us to pay for backwards compatibility, for bluetooth, for wireless controllers, for DVD functionality, for Cell Technology. Of course those are all factors that drive up the cost, but that still doesn't take away from your choice on whether or not you actually want that or want to buy it! Some people think that's where gaming should go, and they'll CHOOSE to buy it.

So, let's review. Where people are willing to pay for something, there will be someone providing that something. If people weren't willing to pay it, then merchants wouldn't provide it. In other words, eBayers would not sell Wii at a markup! If you want it stopped, then CHOOSE not to buy the systems at an exorbitant price and wait until they're readily available.

Sheesh people!

You guys are going in circles, and over explaining a very simple concept that we all get.

We all know that no one is FORCED to buy a PS3
We all know that no one is FORCED to pay extra for a PS3
We all know that jerks are allowed to do anything legal
We all know that some people are stupid
We all know a fool are their money are soon parted

There aren't enough playstations for people who want them. So you are furthering that problem and cashing in by "riding" the demand. Not a hard concept - stop trying to reexplain it.

It's simple and you're not smart/clever/crafty to have thought of re-selling a popular item. Jerks have been doing it for a while now.

But don't make it sound like you're doing something perfectly normal or healthy though. You're buying a highly sought after item for profit by exploit - nothing more. Greed and the "american way" at its finest. I mean, the world could always use MORE middle-men, right? EVERYONE should do this to EVERY new product that comes out from now on. Fuck that'd be awesome!

Next time you want something, be sure to let me know so I can buy it first (I'm a big boy, you know, so I wake up early in the face of potential exploits) and re-sell it to ya. I mean, hey! You're willing to pay the price right?

---

Oh hey, Did you write down that newspaper business plan I gave ya? On big news days, newspapers sell out pretty fast. Be sure to wake early (you big boy, you) and buy them all up! Then people will be forced to pay more if they want to read the paper!! Everyone wins! You profit as an unneeded middle-man and they end up getting their paper (for more money than usual)! yea!

Your analogy is false because the people exploiting the system are exploiting a short-term shortage, not something that will always be in abundance at all times. People who read the newspaper will be able to get one any new day to the next. Besides, if they catch wind of your scheme and they refuse to not pay you for the newspaper you won't be waking up to buy them all anymore.

For the record, people repeat arguments because they aren't being read and therefore we must assume they aren't being understood.

As for the "American Way" comment, I say go ahead and be anti-capitalist. Good for you. Now, stop using your computer, make your own clothes, grow your own food, build your own house, entertain yourself rather than paying a company (nintendo, etc) to entertain you, hell...make your own cellos. That's not a personal stab, that's just something to consider when you bash a system that produces the innovation and products that allow you to bash it.

As for the big boy comment, that's something you're creating out of thin air. I smell insecurity! You'll probably respond to this with heated words and name-calling because of said insecurity.

So, can we keep this discussion to the issues, and not on the people themselves?

For the record, when I used the word 'exploit' I didn't necessarily mean it in the negative connotation in which people like to use it.