Lik-sang responds: Sony "marched all over us"
On Tuesday, popular game importer Lik-sang announced that they were being forced to shut down due to expenses incurred fighting multiple lawsuits from Sony. Sony quickly went into damage control mode, telling GamesIndustry.biz that the legal battle had nothing to do with the site's closure and accusing the online retailer of "sour grapes." Today, Lik-Sang Marketing Manager Pascal Clarysse answered back, telling Joystiq that Sony has "marched all over us." Among the claims made in Clarysse's letter:
- Although Lik-sang did not end up contesting the London suit, the retailer spent significant time and money arguing over the London High Court's jurisdiction before the case came to court.
- Now that the London case has been decided, Lik-sang has been ordered to pay Sony's legal fees of 100,000 GBP ($187,140) by Nov. 1.
- The ongoing cost of the Hong Kong case is forcing Lik-Sang to pay for hundreds of hours of legal work at roughly 380 GBP ($711) per hour, not including clerks and assistants.
This may well be the last we hear from the company on the matter for a while, as Clarysse said his contract and those of his colleagues had been terminated. We can only hope that everyone who has been impacted by this state of affairs lands on their feet.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
just me @ Oct 26th 2006 8:33PM
Sure is a lot of fuss being made over one online site being shutdown. How long are we going to hear about this? Lik-Sang was wrong for what they were doing and Sony asked them to stop and they didn't so look what happened. This has got out of hand now it has become like a couple of kids calling each other names. Just let it die already.
Tim @ Oct 26th 2006 8:34PM
They should get the balls to at least say "We got owned"
Lex @ Oct 26th 2006 8:36PM
Hmm... I guess they never thought of trying to settle this out of court.
You'd have to be dumber than the dumbest to not see that sony would win that case.
You can't sell a suppliers product without thier premission.
Argue all you want but if you aren't an authorized sony distributer they can come down you too if your bussiness impedes thiers, and you don't need a law degree to know that.
Steve2 @ Oct 26th 2006 8:38PM
Lik-Sang:
It isn't like Sony extracted some frontier justice from you. The courts found what you were doing was illegal.
Stop playing the victim here, it was breaking the law that did you in, not some bogeyman called Sony.
I like Lik-Sang. I think this law is stupid. But even stupid laws have force, Lik-Sang should have known better.
Kevin @ Oct 26th 2006 8:39PM
Link-Sang did nothing wrong. They broke no Hong Kong law. They offered great service to people who couldn't receive these items anywhere else.
Sony looks like complete fools for doing this. Everyone sees this except mostly fanboys.
Everytime I hear someone say 'lik-sang did this illegally and they are at fault. it's their fault they got shut down' I just want to punch them in their face. Not only are they lying for Sony they're lying to themselves.
Richard @ Oct 26th 2006 8:46PM
Down with Sony!
Psaakyrn @ Oct 26th 2006 8:49PM
If the courts arrives at a verdict based on inaccurate/false/insufficient information, I do not pur my faith in such a verdict. In some instances, and especially when one party has significantly larger resources (like in this case), misrepresentation of information is likely to occur. I still stand by my statement that the court verdict is false, based on my knowledge that (a) once a product is sold, all rights are transferred to the buyer, and (b) Sony and PSP is a household name and thus no longer follows traditional trademark rules that you cannot use their images.
jchensor @ Oct 26th 2006 8:49PM
Regardless of what your feelings towards the lik-sang site itself is, the reason Sony claims to be shutting them down for isn't illegal. Importing games and consoles is not illegal. In fact, the claims that Sony is "protecting" European customers is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard. If you can find me one European gamer who is grateful for Sony protecting them, I'd be surprised.
The reason for the uproar about this event is that importing is very important to many gamers. I can say that I've imported a huge amout of games in my lifetime, probably taking up almost 25% of the actual games I've purchased in the last year, lik-sang being only one of the many sources I've used. Watching lik-sang, arguably one of the top 3 largest gaming import sites, get taken down is outrageous. Not because I'm a fan of lik-sang in particular, but because of the implications.
Does this mean Sony will go after other import sites? Are we going to expect the fall of some of the other sites that I've relied on? lik-sang is the one that has thus far "taken one for the team," used by Sony as a precautionary tale to other import sites. Are we suddenly going to see these sites stop selling items to European customers? Importing games is the only way some of us can play certain games we are hyped for.
And hell, I don't even LIVE in Europe. I can't imagine what Europeans are feeling right now, since they are going to keep gettin everything second, as history continues to repeat itself.
So this IS an important issue to discuss, not because lik-sang in particular is closed down, but because this really does open up a whole new issue. It doesn't help Sony's case that lik-sang IS loved by a lot of rabid importers, but I think the everyone has taken issue with Sony because it's such a dishonest way to getting what they want. A simple order to lik-sang to stop selling import items to, specifically, Europe until the European consoles have been released would have sufficed. Why resort to guerilla tactics (if the claims are true) to force the site to close down?
just me @ Oct 26th 2006 8:51PM
"They offered great service to people who couldn't receive these items anywhere else."
The thing is that they could get the PSP in Europe they just had to wait a little while longer than everyone else. Sony didn't go after Lik-Sang for selling games and other stuff. It was because of them selling the PSPs before it was available in Europe. If they would have just stopped selling the PSP then they would still be in business.
ger @ Oct 26th 2006 8:51PM
wow the sony fanbois sure hit this one fast. ok ...and... damge control! go!
Cirrus @ Oct 26th 2006 8:52PM
Pfft, they should have just hired Phoenix Wright and he would have finished it in 3 days.
(Although to be fair Phoenix Wright should only be about 14 right now :P )
Nathan @ Oct 26th 2006 8:53PM
Kevin,
Lik-Sang broke European law, and if you want to do business in Europe you have to comply with European law. Hong Kong law doesn't mean anything in this case.
You don't have to be a "fanboy" to see Lik-Sang were selling goods illegaly - do you think the judges are Sony fanboys? Lik-Sang would still be doing business if they stopped selling Sony products in Europe, as the law required them to do.
And stupid comments like "I just want to punch them in the face" shows just what an ass you are.
Richard @ Oct 26th 2006 8:55PM
Actually I just noticed that the lik-sang logo is a guy holding a PS1 controller.. boo!
ger @ Oct 26th 2006 9:01PM
So if importind Sony goods into the UK is not ok then what happens when some one wants to import from another site? Can the courts really enforce something like this? I mean in theory yeah but in pratcical terms.....and what about buyers? are they bad guys too? I can't imagine how this law will stand for very long, the world is too connected - if people want to buy imported goods i just don't see how that's bad. but then again maybe i'm missing some huge point that is obvious to lawmakers who created this law. And no i dont' believe it's "protection"....
Radon @ Oct 26th 2006 9:05PM
I can see it now... Sony is going to sue all the people who sell PS3s to Europeans on eBay come November.
diskoboy @ Oct 26th 2006 9:07PM
Nathan....
If the UK is the only country in the world with this "law", doesn't it make you want to question your governments actions on this matter? And exactly what law did Lik-Sang break, anyway? You guys are slowing down worldwide industry growth.
You Europeans have completely lost your minds, when it comes to polotics, and have completely fucked up a great thing for the rest of the world.
ken seang @ Oct 26th 2006 9:14PM
You notice sony was the only one doing this, look at nintendo. Nintendo didn't care if people imported their ds from japan to america or to europe. As long as you got their product they were find with it. Lik-sang sold many great items and it sucks I won't be able to get those japanese only items from them. I say F-sony!
Copperhead @ Oct 26th 2006 9:16PM
Jesus I am glad I got out of England.
The place is turning into a cesspool of Socialist business regulations and piss-minded "lawmakers".
Death to the Great Satan.... which in this case, happens to be Sony.
EezerGoode @ Oct 26th 2006 9:20PM
Well the government have shot themselves in the foot as far as I am concerned. The import tax in the UK is nothing short of ridiculous and I pretty much have no reason to pay anymore now my favorite import site is gone.
sweethavok @ Oct 26th 2006 9:20PM
I am Sony hear me ROAR!
Mitochondria @ Oct 26th 2006 9:23PM
Ok, heres where I stand.
I've never even heard of lik-sang let alone ordered from them. But as far as I'm concerned they are just like play asia, which I am rather fond of. Also, where does this end. What about music or movies. What it I wanted to import a sony film that you can get in the US, what then. And besides, from what it seems, sony still gets their money, I mean the importers have to get their stuff from somewhere, I assume it's not the black market.
Hank Mo @ Oct 26th 2006 9:26PM
Lik-Sang has also been sued by Microsoft and Nintendo over the past couple of years, but for whatever reason, Lik-Sang chose not to mention those lawsuits in their story/press release. I guess those lawsuits from the other two console makers didn't require Lik-Sang to spend any money on lawyers for their defense.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=11391
What's interesting to me is the fact that the vast majority of the internet coverage about this story (including Joystiq's) has been solely reliant on that Lik-Sang story/press release, which can hardly be construed as unbiased.
It's certainly easy to kick a big dog like Sony when they're down (from a PR perspective), but hey, when all three console-makers have filed lawsuits against Lik-Sang for a variety of reasons, we certainly ought to consider the idea that Lik-Sang isn't entirely blameless for their own demise, and likewise, that those Sony lawsuits weren't solely responsible for Lik-Sang's current fiscal crisis.
K @ Oct 26th 2006 9:27PM
Why would it be illegal to offer the PSP to a country that doesn't have it yet? Lik-Sang doesn't operate out of Europe. Maybe if they did, that would make more sense as to why the High Court ruled it illegal. I don't see how this is any different from importing anything else from another country with this type of order-by-number system.
Doug @ Oct 26th 2006 9:33PM
Gaijin-Smash!
apoc06 @ Oct 26th 2006 9:34PM
This is crazy. Sony didn't have a problem with them selling imported games. They didn't have a problem with them importing PSPs to America; just selling PSPs to Europe before they could authorize Liksang as an official importer. Sounds easy enough to comply with, right? Sony asked them "nicely" [relatively speaking anyways] and Liksang wanted to fight it.
If someone threatens to sue me if I'm selling something they didnt authorize me to sell, I'm going to think about my company's well being first and stop selling them. You can't just set up shop and sell a company's goods just because you have them. Ebay and Liksang are two separate entities since they are a retailer and therefore get certain benefits that individuals do not. It's Sony's product; not getting authority is illegal, period. Liksang's inventory was only authorized for sale in Hong Kong, Asia, and I believe eventually America.
I'm surprised you guys didnt print the entire letter in its entirely. The "highly pregnant women" part is something I wont forget any time soon.
I apologize in advance for the length, but hopefully everyone can read first before drawing opinions. Here it is:
------------------------
First of all, Sony's claim that Lik-Sang didn't turn up and therefore incurred no legal cost is absolute nonsense. Lik-Sang's legal representatives spent over a year to vigorously contest the UK's court jurisdiction until the last moment, produced witness statements and documents, and replied to Sony's allegations about parallel importation and copyright infringement. Plenty of documents were sent back and forth from Hong Kong all the way to the UK, and it was also argued to the London High Court that Sony has launched duplicate actions in different countries, but all to no avail. The court case in Hong Kong is still ongoing, and Lik-Sang as well as its lawyers spent hundreds and hundreds of hours trying to catch up with Sony's mass of documents and claims. As a result, two different High Court judges at different occasions expressed their surprise about the unusual high legal expenses claimed by Sony's law firm.
Through their lawsuits, Sony forced the relatively small company behind Lik-Sang.com into a bizarre world of lawyers charging more than GBP 380 (EUR 550+) per hour (!), and if you believe it or not, these guys don't come alone, they need their (not necessarily much cheaper) assistants and clerks around them to get something done.
The UK courts ruling that outlaws what Lik-Sang and the gaming community enjoyed ever since, and the imminent direct threat from Sony about yet a third lawsuit and a PlayStation 3 injunction, will absolutely not make things easier and fairer for anyone involved.
Denying boldly any correlation between Sony's legal actions and Lik-Sang's closure must probably be cynical sarcasm on their behalf. Unfortunately for Lik-Sang, the current situation is neither a joke, nor a game: A bunch of people, including two highly pregnant women, have lost their basis for existence because of corporate lawsuits for something that is not only regarded as lawful in Hong Kong, it is considered to be beneficial for consumers (free trade). And a huge amount of gamers all around the globe lost a place on the Internet that they were enjoying.
Lik-Sang is not involved into any other lawsuits apart with Sony, and, while they "strongly denied that their actions have had anything to do with [Lik-Sang's] closing" in their statement, they still had the time to send a 15 pages fax less than 24h later, lining out the terms of the order made by the UK court last week and asking Lik-Sang to pay the sum of GBP 100,000 (EUR 150,000) just for their legal costs before 4pm at November 1. By the way, the fax also includes a penal notice, nicely reminding the reader that not obeying the order (which means shipping any PlayStation branded product to any country in Europe) may mean sequestration of all assets and, in worst case, imprisonment for the directors of the company. The judge also ordered that 'there be an inquiry as to the damages suffered' by Sony Computer Entertainment Europe in the UK and in any other member state of the European Union, based on each EU country's own rules.
Finally, Sony's unbelievable statement that all purchase orders made by their own directors 'would' be for investigatory purposes speaks volumes, and also doesn't explain why these and all the other orders placed by Sony officials were not revealed to the High Court (despite what is called duty for 'full and frank disclosure' in court proceedings, as Lik-Sang understands it as laymen).
Oddly enough, all investigatory orders that were revealed by Sony to the High Court in London and to the High Court in Hong Kong started much later than the purchases placed by their directors. Further to this, Sony Europe's own Legal and Business Affairs Manager signed a witness statement in the High Court of London that says that Sony Europe 'became aware' of parallel imported PSP consoles in the UK and in the rest of Europe only in March 2005, and the same witness statement presents a trainee solicitor from Sony's lawyers as the one placing such investigatory orders during May 2005.
On top of that, more than a half year after the named Sony officials started to receive their PSP purchase orders from Lik-Sang, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe (managed by the very same directors) sent a letter to Hong Kong claiming that they just 'recently discovered' that Lik-Sang is offering PSP consoles and games to customers in the UK (United Kingdom) and that they would be entitled for a court injunction.
The three directors that were revealed in Tuesday's press release are very important and directly linked to Sony's lawsuits against Lik-Sang. A copy of their purchase orders, along with a fine selection of others, was produced by Lik-Sang's legal representatives to Sony Europe during the Hong Kong High Court discovery proceedings long before the trial in the UK took place. No purchase orders of non-management level Sony employees were revealed, not in court or otherwise.
UK news website Spong.com tried to call all three of the listed Sony directors, just to learn that 66% of them are not in their office or are on holidays this week. They are probably still very exhausted from placing all these investigatory orders for the trainees of their legal department...
My final words: Sony should be proud of having such a die-hard import gamers community rushing to buy their products and supporting them with a passion. Instead, they march all over us.
Pascal Clarysse, on behalf of Lik-Sang.com
David @ Oct 26th 2006 9:34PM
Please, you people say that Lik-sang was wrong in exporting PSP's to Europe. How many of you downloaded Advent Children online? How many of you downloaded anything free online without paying for it? How many of you use your PSP's to play Nintendo ROMs? Did you know every single Nintendo game's instruction booklet has this handy warning?
"Copying of any video game for any Nintendo system is illegal and is strictly prohibited by domestic and international intellectual property laws. 'Back-up' or 'archival' copies are not authorized and are not necessary to protect your software. Violators will be prosecuted."
The gaming community isn't always the most law-abiding one. If you are going to flame Lik-sang for what they did, at least stop trying to justify what you are doing.
And I recognize that there are many Sony gamers who are protecting Sony that do not do any of the above, this is not directed toward you.
Rayek @ Oct 26th 2006 9:43PM
Sony had absolutely no reason to fuss over this. Sony has showed that they don't care one little bit about gamers, much less consumers. First of all, their products cost an extreme amount for no good reason, and if anyone says that that implies quality, you've been decieved.
They do other things against gamers for no reason, this isn't the first tragedy. For instance, the constant battle between homebrew developers and Sony's PSP firmwares. What are they protecting besides their stupid egos? If they cared about gamers, they would turn the other cheek when it came to homebrew and emulation, hell, that's what made me buy a PSP in the first place. (I sold it in favor of a GP2X once I found out all that firmware bullocks...) It's apparent there's no real reson to buy a PSP over a DS nowadays, they have nothing to bank on but homebrew and emulation, as far as I can tell.
Plus, the whole CD bullocks, that prevents Sony produced music to be ripped from your computer? I mean, WTF is that? I want a CD on my Ipod, and they're bitching? They don't care about us.
And now we find out that 1/3 of the cost of the PS3 is because of thier Blu-Ray device. They're pushing an unneeded format that I'm not sure I, or a majority of consumers want to accept, but they're shoving it down our throats, and on top of that, they're making us pay for it. It's ludicrous.
It's apparent to me that major companies that make objects other than gaming machines have no business in the industry because all they're here for is to get a peice of the billion dollar industry. Sony is taking steps more poressive than Nintendo did in the 80s when they were declared an illegal monopoly in the US.
Where the hell is Sega?
Ringworm @ Oct 26th 2006 9:48PM
Sony fanboys continue to stay loyal to a company that copies everything Nintendo creates. How do Sony fanboys live with themselves? It's beyond pathetic....
Lekko @ Oct 26th 2006 9:50PM
Regardless, keep in mind your own place in this whole thing. It's a lot like Napster. You're the consumer, you lost out on one more source to get rare things, but Sony opted for legal action to shut down something that they saw was detrimental. It was business on their end, and the customer got booted.
I agree with most that the law is pretty dumb, and that Sony really should not have won, but... these things happen.
However, the real reason I can see for this is a side-tactic by Sony. The PS3 is comming out soon, and they really need it to be big. Games on the PS3 (and PSP for that matter) are region-free for gaming, which is their primary purpose. Most modchip makers can get out of legal action by stating, "for backups only!" and waiving liability, same kind of thing here. Sony can take the legal route because these systems previously have been region locked, and can't play localized games for the person that bought them.
Go ahead, ask around. People who buy import systems have typically been kinda screwed unless they also own a local system unless they import EVERYTHING. This is different though. I think that Sony wants to not have these systems be imported, because while games themselves are region-free, movies are not. If you import, than the bluray trojan can not be successful. Like I said earlier, a business move.
Aex @ Oct 26th 2006 9:55PM
David, the difference here is, We didn't get caught.
Had we got caught there would be a fine to pay. Sure we would bitch and moan just like lik-sang, but in the end, it is no one's fault but our own. You can't go around saying that someone shouldn't be punished for a crime they commited just because many people aren't punished everytime they break a law.
I find it interesting that the Nintendo Lawsuit cost Lik-sang 5x as much as this lawsuit, and they didn't shut down then. (500,000 GBP awarded to Nintendo in 2002)
So, seriously guys, you all just want another reason to hate on sony and seem like you are justified doing so. Well, you aren't, but it's all good. You are allowed to hate Sony, or anyone else for that matter, without reason. When you come up with a stupid reason on the other hand... Well, then expect to get flamed.
ninja @ Oct 26th 2006 10:08PM
Just because YOU decide to steal media, by illegally downloading songs, movies, games and whatever else you can get for 'free', it does not mean everyone does.
I download content based on current Federal and State laws. If I ever download something illegal unknowingly and later find out it was wrong - I purge that data.
Please do not catagorize your illegal endevours with the rest of the community.
ninja @ Oct 26th 2006 10:08PM
Please, someone give Nathan a star :)
Shogan @ Oct 26th 2006 10:10PM
Another nail in Sony's coffin. From flat-out insulting gamers, particularly in Europe, to telling us what we can and can not do with our PSPs, to shoving Blu-Ray down our throats with their PS3 (BUY SONY MUSIC ONLINE!!!!)... to hell with them.
It's a sad day when Sony, a company I used to buy electronics from exclusively, has become more evil than Microsoft. By comparison, in my opinion, Microsoft is looking good... and that's scary.
just me @ Oct 26th 2006 10:15PM
@David
Although I am not one of the people you are talking about that backup games or download movies like you say Lik-Sang's issue is totaly different. 1) 99% of the people that download games and movies don't make money off them. 2) The way that Lik-sang got the games and consols they were selling was not wrong but the way that they were selling the PSPs was. It's like compairing me stealing a dozen PS3s and then selling them to me owning a store and breakig the street date on them.
@Hank mo
The reason that Microsoft and Nintendo sued Lik-sang was over modchips. They stopped selling the chips and all was well after that.
What I find funny is that Sony asked them to stop selling PSPs to Europe and they didn't. It was like they were saying "we don't care what you say we are ging to do what we want". It was kinda like a slap in the face to Sony so they took action I would have too. If they had just stopped selling the PSPs to Europe until they were released there then all would be ok instead look at them now. There are other places like Play-Asia that don't sell games to Europe and Sony has no problem with them.
Senshida @ Oct 26th 2006 10:24PM
@22 Hank Mo
That was over modchips and piracy stuff. Lik Sang got a new president afterward, and reformed. It was one of the most popular importing websites.
RC @ Oct 26th 2006 10:29PM
Here's the thing guys:
Lik-Sang is a legitimate (reseller) company who did something illegal based in European laws. Why European laws while Lik-Sang is Hong Kong based? It because resellers have to obide the rules in whatever country they will to sell products/merchandise to.
Did what Sony do to Lik-Sang overkill? Perhaps.
Did what Lik-Sang do (by selling PS3's to Euro gamers illegal).. The judge thought so.
Does Lik-Sang have grounds to appeal? Absolutely.
Did Sony REALLY have to sue Lik-Sang? NO; hell PS3's have been sold yet.. unless I missed it and it's out already..
- That being said, it sucks like hell to lose Lik-Sang.
David @ Oct 26th 2006 10:31PM
@ Ninja
I assume you were referring to my comment on #26, I do not download music/games/movies illegally, I'm equally disgusted with the PSP community as well as the DS community who use their systems as nothing more than emulators. It's even worse for the DS community who emulate DS games. And I would suggest you re-read the last sentence of my post.
RC @ Oct 26th 2006 10:32PM
I forgot to add:
Was Sony (bleep) by doing this? YES
** And I'm a Nintendo Fanboy, not a Sony Fanboy
LK @ Oct 26th 2006 10:37PM
Get ready to tl;dr, because I'm going to explain some shit to all Sony fanboys out there.
PARALLEL TRADING means buying and selling a product available in one country to another country where such product may not be available. An example that fits the meaning is buying and selling PSPs from Japan where it is available to the public to areas such as Europe where at the time, PSPs were not available. This has always been a grey area in Europe as supporters (usually consumer unions/organizations) claim that it raises competition and more choices for the consumer. Nevertheless, detractors (mainly companies) cite the act as copyright and trademark infrigements.
However, parallel importing/trading IS LEGAL in Hong Kong as many might know, but parallel importing in the UK and Europe has been left in an inconsistent area, but has been mostly tolerated. Many cases had the judges rule in favor of the importers desite how they simply modified the packaging to fit European standards. The judge ignored the fact of legality in Hong Kong by saying that the trade had "been perpetrated not in Hong Kong but here in the EEA, and without Sony's consent." He has also supported his decision stating that "sold hardware does not conform to the EU or UK consumer safety standards, due to voltage supply differences et cetera." But there are enough grounds for appeal here given the giant grey area the grey markets (parallel imports) always had.
I believe, with different conditions such as more money for Lik-Sang, that Lik-Sang could have received a different verdict for this case. Many other electronic devices that do not conform to the UK voltage supply or region code has been sold in the UK long before March of 2005. Also consider that medicines have been sold in UK without giving any credit to the manufacturer's trademarks/copyrights after they had been repackaged for Europe (it was only a label change and a new instructions). In fact, I believe if had Lik-Sang covered the box with stickers that said "Lik-Sang PSP" with a new instruction manual and different voltage chargers, it would have been completely legal. Had Lik-Sang gained more money to contest this case, they could have won. Not only that, this is just a bad deal for the consumers and gamers in general as it limits the competition and right to choose as mentioned before.
Sony is not completely right here, and Lik-Sang is not completely wrong and criminal. If Sony is definitely right, there will only be paltry selection of games available to the general people of Europe forever, and even those would have lie in wait for many months or possibly years. As a gamer and a consumer, I would hope companies like Sony not to mistreat its loyal and paying supporters in Europe by limiting their selection. Even if Lik-Sang did not have Sony's consent, it was filling a want in the European market that Sony was ignoring. They did right by their customers, and they should not suffer for Sony's ignorance.
With this ruling, the import niche has been open for Sony to fill it. I doubt Sony will satisfy the consumers as it has been failing to do so for so many years. Dedicated hardcore European fans will simply resort to more illegal sites where they not only deal with imports, but also pirated goods. Sony has gained little from all this except possibly negative publicity.
[Source: http://scientific.thomson.com/free/ipmatters/euroiss/8202914/]
lordroba @ Oct 26th 2006 10:39PM
Just goes to show you don't mess with Sony. Next target, Microsoft! (I joke (calm down fanboys))
Lex @ Oct 26th 2006 10:55PM
@39 that article you referenced only discusses parallel trading between countries in the EU.
Lik-Sang is out of Hong Kong that particular article doesn't discuss their situation.
If a supplier says don't sell my product to this region before this date, and ask you not to do so, and you do it anyway.
What do you expect the supplier to do?
Sit there and take it and lose control of distribution of thier own product?
People keep talking about how this hurts gamers.
Don't blame this one on Sony this one is the fault of Lik-Sang they should have found a way to make an agreement with Sony instead of trying to take them to court.
They brought this on themselves.
AzaMcWazza @ Oct 26th 2006 11:01PM
Another reason to hate Sony - the damn bastards. Lik Sang has done a world of good for for consumers which = good for the industry.
Poo on you Sony. We attack you for massive damage!
JJ @ Oct 26th 2006 11:04PM
I really dont see what the problem is... and why people just keep citing sony when both MS and Nintendo sued them in the past as well.
So chance are this isn't just Sony's fault, but shows the ocmpany as a whole was on its last legs and sony's suit, just finished them off. I mean back to back lawsuits over the last 4 or so years from 3 giant companies CAN have a negative impact on a business thats not as big.
But still... why just blame sony? and as a business not take the proper route? Sure they have a right to complain but jeez... sounds like they're just bitching to...well, bitch.
You also ahve to remember being part of the import/export business is tough as heck anyway since unless you're authorized, you're always skirting gray areas, so its never a definite market.
Ibrahim @ Oct 26th 2006 11:37PM
Hmm, well on another site (slashdot.org) someone posted that Sony sued Lik-Sang in every EU country, making it impossible for them to actually fight them in the courts. In addition, they gave misinformation to the judges, and that protecting the consumer bit has got to be the worst piece of BS I have heard, almost like saying the rootkit copy protection was for the consumer's protection. I have no idea how true the multiple lawsuits thing is, because he didn't actually put a link to his source, but if it is true that's just stupid.
Steven @ Oct 26th 2006 11:41PM
Sony just continues to piss me off
Dan @ Oct 26th 2006 11:52PM
What, exactly, is the point of the PS3 being region-free if Sony is going to rabidly attack anyone who dares to export their product?
LK @ Oct 27th 2006 12:01AM
t 41, anything that limits the possible list of selection for the consumers will hurt them. Also, this case and the two previous and simliar court cases that Sony won against Nuplayer and ElectricBirdLand set precedents that will ultimately deny European gamers from ever playing great Japan-exclusive games, thus it will only hurt the gamers in the long-run.
I also do not believe Sony would have allowed them to settle without stopping the sales or a significant sum. Sony probably knew it hasmore money and more lawyers that it keeps fighting these small companies (and win). The stores will lose either way, and I'm rather bittersweet about how Lik-Sang chose to fight it out.
And even if Sony loses the customers in Europe, Lik-Sang does pay for those PSPs to SCEJ. The same money spent goes toward Sony whether through Lik-Sang or SCEE. It might have been unfair for Japanese customers, but there were more supplies there than the supplies that would have reached Europe later. Either way, Sony loses nothing, and Lik-Sang only gains a tiny profit from it all.
Finally, Sony cannot continue this endless chase around the world. Even if these companies are shut down, there is a growing demand for early adopters and import gamers. New companies will rise overseas no matter how illegal Sony makes it out to be. If they focused on better and faster localizations and more selections for these European gamers, enough demand could be met to rid the need of sites such as Lik-Sang. Until Sony decides not to screw Europe over, the sites will come out, and Sony will lose more money trying to squish them all.
apoc06 @ Oct 27th 2006 12:43AM
The consoles are region free to allow gamers to have the freedom to import games. Sony did not request them to not sell region locked software. The console should not be sold to other regions ESPECIALLY if they havent been fully tested and able to comply with that regions specific standards. period.
That last point is the gray area that Sony exploited in this case to bring an end to grey importing. Honestly, it does make sense in the court of law. If you are a judge, you have no choice but to accept that argument. Especially in the light of Sony [and Microsoft's] recent power cord recalls. IANAL, but pursuing the trademark infringment angle of the case where each country has differing trademark laws was destined to lose. They chose the fastest most efficient way to get their point across. Liksang could have abided by Sony's request and none of this would have happened.
On the other hand, i [ like alot of gamers], believe that Sony is exaggerating the case. Apparently Liksang sent the proper power adapters with the consoles the exported, and the power adapter supposedly has the european certification printed on it. [maybe Sony printed the certification on the adapters before they actually received true certification... But that's another conspiracy theory altogether]
Hong Kong law means nothing in this case. They are importers; that means they have to abide by the law of the country or countries they are exporting to. If Liksang doesn't have an european office, they can ignore the case altogether, never pay the settlement, and continue business as usual. That would mean that they would not be able to operate or sell in Europe though, and obviously Sony would follow the case up in a higher court until they did receive settlement.
Sony went to any means necessary to bring an end to grey imports of its console, and to set a precedent for those that hoped to be grey importer the ps3. Individuals and Ebayers would not be considered subject to any of this. That's all the case was about: an end to unauthorized grey imports.
My problem stems from the fact that Liksang is playing totally innocent and preying upon the resounding negative sentiment towards Sony right now. It's a low blow if you ask me. Trying to conjure images of Sony kicking pregnant women out on the street? How low can you get? If Liksang just obliged in one simple arena then gamers around the world [including Europe] would still be able to import any game or peripheral they wanted from Liksang. The only things off limits were PSP and PS3 hardware to Europe. No other countries... just Europe. Doesn't sound like that difficult of a request.
It was just a very stupid decision on the part Liksang's management. Honestly, if a ~$200,000 [rounding up] settlement is enough to close the doors on the company, it's feasible that they were on the verge of going under to start with. They've lost settlements five times as high before to Nintendo and Microsoft. It's possible that the company was inevitably going under anyways, and they took this as the prime moment to acquiesce.
Now Liksang won't look bad in gamer's eyes when they inform them that their preorders won't be filled for the holiday launches. The gamer rage now pointed at Sony instead. A few months down the line they reorganize, settle with Sony and reopen up shop. Negative PR shifted to Sony and gamers will rejoice at the reopening.
apoc06 @ Oct 27th 2006 12:56AM
@jamar: Software isnt being targetted. Software is region-free to encourage importing. This is a direct result of an Australian ruling that mod-chips were legal in the sense that software has to be region free. No one has a problem with import software; just hardware. Individual purchases are not being targetted here. Your personal consoles are safe. If you want to set up shop as a retailer of Sony hardware, you need to get approval from Sony and abide by their regulations regarding the sale of their product. This ruling only affects retailers importing/ exporting hardware.
@LK: This case has nothing to do with software. The PSP and PS3 are both region free as far as software is concerned. Sony has actually made it easier to import and play games not released on your native soil.
Yes, Sony still gets paid from the sales of the console, but Sony does lose something out of the deal. If something were to happen to the actual console itself, Sony is responsible. If the power differential shorted out PSPs or PS3s Sony is held accountable to replace the equipment, not the importer. You see how Sony batteries have hurt their bottom line already, imagine the negative PR if they had that form of problem with their launch hardware.
Bertrand @ Oct 27th 2006 1:15AM
Just a remark to tell you that Pascal Clarysse is probably a man's name and not a woman's as the article seems to assume.