Sony vs Nintendo in the motion sensitive arena
by Kevin Kelly 
{ Oct 28th 2006 at 5:00PM }
There's been an enormous amount of brouhaha about whether or not Sony added the motion sensitive feature to their controller after Nintendo announced the Wii, or if they had been planning it all along. Now Sony fanboys are claiming, via the YouTube video after the jump, that they had motion sensitive controllers back on the original PlayStation, so Nintendo must have copied the idea from Sony. Nobody seems to notice that it wasn't Sony who made the motion sensitive controller back then. Since it was pre-2000, then it's ancient history, in Net-time.
The only thing the video proves is that third-party manufacturers (like Pelican) made motion sensitive controllers, Sony had nothing to do with it. In fact, Pelican made motion sensitive controller paks for the N64, which also incorporated vibration as well, and this was back in what, 1998? What's really puzzling is that Sony isn't able to (or unable to, due to the Immersion lawsuit) make both the vibration and the motion sensitive technology work in their PS3 controllers. It's been seven years since Pelican packed this technology into a PS1 controller and both work. Seems like technologically they'd be able to make it work come November.
The real issue is that Nintendo isn't just adding motion to a controller as a novelty, it has created an entirely new way to play games that require motion. Once you've spent any time playing with the Wii, then you'll see how it changes gameplay on a fundamental level. It's not a tacked on feature to try and squeeze some more life out of an existing controller design, instead they opted to go for something unique and different. Only time will tell if people actually embrace the difference and make the Wii a success, or a failure.
Just don't expect to see motion sensitive controllers coming to the Xbox 360 anytime soon. Microsoft tried a motion sensitive controller, the Sidewinder Freestyle Pro for PCs, but it never took off. Bill Gates said in an interview with MTV News at E3, "It's tough because sometimes you move the controller, and you don't [mean] to fly into the ground. You just want to put the controller down. People aren't that good at totally standing still. Even pilots actually sit in a chair when they do their flying. So there's a lot to be learned about these controllers." Yeah Bill, lets try and have pilots stand up while they fly, I'm sure that would work out pretty well.
So yes, motion is a feature on the PS3, but it's a requirement on the Wii. Where it's an option on one system, you can't play games without it on the other. Nintendo had extremely primitive motion sensitive technology in their Power Glove back in 1989, and companies like Pelican have tried to innovate with motion sensitive controllers on several consoles. It just hasn't proven itself to be a mainstream technology yet, and Nintendo is crossing its nunchucks that it will.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Mr. Khan @ Oct 28th 2006 4:29PM
Sixaxis was one of those half-baked last-minute "Oh, shit, we should put that in there because they have it there" ideas
Sony saw the Wiimote and the buzz it created, and made a half-assed clone to try to copy it without alienating the Old-schoolers
Microsoft saw the capabilities of Next-Gen Media formats too late, hence the half-assed upgrade to 1080p and the HD-DVD Drive
Nintendo believed thier system needed more "extra features" after seeing 360 Media Center in action, so they put together the Photo Channel, essentially a useless feature
Daniel Q @ Oct 28th 2006 5:06PM
SIXAXIS is to light... and very gimicky
epobirs @ Oct 29th 2006 1:31AM
There was a joystick for the Atari 2600, and everything that used the same joystick interface, that was motion and attitudinally sensitive via mercury switches back in 1982.
It was a novelty but not very practical because no games were designed with it in mind.
Guess what? We had analog sticks and shoulder buttons back then as well. New idea don't come along very often. What matters are effective implementations with strong software support.
Optimus Prime @ Oct 28th 2006 5:17PM
Wiimote = Power Glove + NES Mouse
And, what is Kevin Kelly's problem? All of your posts are slanted against Sony one way or another. A little insecure? A wiimote up your a$$hole? Whats your problem, dude?
Jeffrey Allen @ Oct 28th 2006 5:20PM
"Yeah Bill, lets try and have pilots stand up while they fly, I'm sure that would work out pretty well."
In point of fact, the Apollo astronauts flew while standing up -- there were no seats in the Lunar Module.
Mullinator @ Oct 28th 2006 5:23PM
Whats with Optimus Primes posts? All of them are slanted against Nintendo one way or another. A little insecure? A sixaxis up your a$$hole? Whats your problem, dude?
Anyway I wouldn't look into this too hard. there have been plenty of attempts for motion control in the past, no one ever claims that Nintendo is revolutionary in trying to make games take advantage of it. They are arguing that Nintendo is revolutionary in making them the standard for at least one of the three big name consoles being released.
Probot @ Oct 28th 2006 5:26PM
"Nintendo had extremely primitive motion sensitive technology in their Power Glove back in 1989..."
It was the Mattel Power Glove. Not Nintendo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_glove
There's a big difference between built in features and third party accesories. Games will use both controllers to their fullest eventually, and we'll be better off for it. The 1up Show a few weeks ago talked about how the latest Metal Gear Solid trailer showed things that could be done with the PS3 controller.
It doesn't really make a difference whether it was in response to Nintendo or not. We've already seen some games that are using that feature well, like Lair.
Adding vibration was a response to other companies and that worked out fine for Sony. What difference does it really make if Sony got motion sensing idea from Nintendo?
LordMinogue @ Oct 28th 2006 5:27PM
I wonder how long it will be before games are able to bypass controllers and interact with our minds directly. Seriously, the technology is developing at an astounding rate. Intel expects the number of cores in their CPU's to double every two years (Quad Core eta Feb 2007), silicon will soon be replaced with synthetic diamonds (Lower resistance = 90ghz chips 2010), and electrodes are small enogh to implant thousands within our skull without causing damage. In Pop-Sci there was an article about an ape who could manipulate a robotic arm with his thoughts alone, and a double amputee has learned to operate, and even 'feel' through a robotic arm harnessed on his side!
Still, im gonna wait until at least version 3 for whatever interface they want to put in my skull. Matrix FTW?
Moogle @ Oct 28th 2006 5:28PM
Mr. Khan - MS saw the benefits, but they made a gamble on what would sell more in the short term, a year's lead, or more space. I don't think the Xbox team was expecting to be around in 3 years if they didn't have a stable position in the market, and it'll be years before we can really say, honestly, whether or not the lack of space will have hurt the 360, or the plethora thereof will have helped PS3.
It is pretty likely that Sony's been sitting on the idea for the SIXAXIS for a long time. Everyone has. Noone ever figured out how to make it a good business proposition - The motion controller just isn't compelling enough on its own. Nintendo realized, or bought the rights to, the idea of using a camera in a reverse-lightgun setup. That, in addition to the motion sensitivity, finally convinced Nintendo that it was a risk worth taking. Sony just release their old motion tech to keep from being left as far behind as MS.
Also, the power glove was made by Mattel.
Optimus Prime @ Oct 28th 2006 5:30PM
"Whats with Optimus Primes posts? All of them are slanted against Nintendo one way or another. A little insecure? A sixaxis up your a$$hole? Whats your problem, dude?"
LOL .. cute. Ive got a Wii on preorder, moron.
Methane47 @ Oct 28th 2006 5:30PM
"What's really puzzling is that Sony isn't able to (or unable to, due to the Immersion lawsuit) make both the vibration and the motion sensitive technology work in their PS3 controllers. It's been seven years since Pelican packed this technology into a PS1 controller and both work. Seems like technologically they'd be able to make it work come November."
The problem isn't with the Tilt. It's with the accelerometer. Rumble can interfare with the accelerometer.... and when you're playing Warhawk you really dont want the game picking up any wierd signals due to the rumble... Of course it's possible to isolate the differening signals but that's just going to add another 10 bucks (rounded up ofcourse) to the cost... which probably doesn't include immersion licensing fees.
That PS1 control doesn't look to have the accelerometer so that would be a "ThreeAxis".... Not up to par with the SixAxiS
Jaded @ Oct 28th 2006 5:31PM
I love the Power Glove. It's so bad.
Russell @ Oct 28th 2006 5:34PM
Wait a minute, what show was that? Cause it had that one annoying guy that I can't stand (from X-Play) and some other fat, ugly chick. Where is Morgan Webb?
Moogle @ Oct 28th 2006 5:35PM
Jeffrey Allen made my brain asplode. Astronauts... standing up...
Not much flying on a rocket that involves a yoke as far as I'm aware.
Also... THEY WERE IN SPACE! SPACE! SPAAAAAAACE! AAAAUUUGH!
Matt @ Oct 28th 2006 5:40PM
We applogize, Optimus Prime. I think the majority of us were too busy interpreting how biased all of your comments are, and therefore took it to mean that you're so blind to Sony that you would gladly contribute to their organization should they run for office. You're a sad man, and I eagerly await the moment a mass power-outage shuts you out from the Joystiq community. :)
Platinum Skeet @ Oct 28th 2006 5:46PM
I want a star now!
OMFG!!! This is what me and 5 other people kept saying over and over during the E3 coverage?!? While that happend everyone was going off call us disgruntled Nintendo/Microsoft fanboys.
READ YOUR POSTS JOYSTIQ!!! NOT JUST THE FIRST 10 PEOPLE!!!
You would've had the scoop months ago
FuzzyPickles @ Oct 28th 2006 5:41PM
The name of the damn thing is going to flunk a lot of Sony fanboys out of math over the next few years. It took me a while to realize myself that the extra three "axes" they invented to come up with that grand total of six is simply translation across each of them.
By the way, this is going to be a fun comment thread.
Matt @ Oct 28th 2006 5:42PM
Methane:
Sony's motion sensing is a tacked-on novelty to try and steal Nintendo's fame.
Nintendo's motion sensing is absolutely required to play any non-Virtual Console game on the system.
So how do you not find it interesting that Nintendo can do rumble and motion sensing (more elaborate motion sensing, mind you) but Sony can not? Are you blind? Does the word "Immersion" mean a single thing to you?
Wow.
FuzzyPickles @ Oct 28th 2006 5:43PM
Oh yeah... and lol @ boxart.
Moogle @ Oct 28th 2006 5:43PM
Forgot to add *KABOOM* to the last post, sorry.
Methane47 - They HAVE to buffer and average the data from the accelerometers anyway. It's too touchy, you need a sample over time for any useful information. The chip sitting there holding data to send out over bluetooth is plenty capable of averaging out any vibration, *especially* from a source with an expected range of vibration.
This has nothing to do with lack of spending on tech, it has to be in there anyway.
Me @ Oct 28th 2006 5:45PM
Nintendo sux and all of itS so called good games are remakes of games i played back in 1983 !!! NINTENDO SUCKS....END STORY !!!!
LordMinogue @ Oct 28th 2006 5:46PM
Differentiating between Rumble and Motion is not hard AT ALL. The motion the accelleromiter reads is the sum of the wave motion of the rumble and the motion, thus:
input - known frequency of rumble = motion
Its physics! heck, the PS3 should have NO Problem doing these calculations. NO cost would be added to the controller, cause two cell phone vibrators cost pennies in bulk. Worst case, you add MAGNETIC ENCODERS , which also cost nothing in buck. This would require a firmware update to implement at most.
MJ @ Oct 28th 2006 5:49PM
I don't know if I like the sixaxis yet, but if it was last minute or not I don't really care... but this seems just so wrong to me:
"So yes, motion is a feature on the PS3, but it's a requirement on the Wii. Where it's an option on one system, you can't play games without it on the other."
This sucks basically because you are saying the same thing twice, that's just bad, but otherwise I thought the Wii was going to have a standard controller which could be used instead of the Wiimote or maybe that was just for mini games or something. I don't know, I just heard about it.
Ndric @ Oct 28th 2006 5:53PM
Optimus Prime: "LOL .. cute. Ive got a Wii on preorder, moron."
Doesn't make you less of a douchbag.
Moogle @ Oct 28th 2006 5:51PM
Matt - *cough*Smash Brothers Melee*cough*
Not required, but present, and feature-full.
Also, Methane wasn't saying Sony couldn't, but that cost might have been a factor. I disagree for reasons I just posted, but you misunderstood his/her post.
Something I just thought of...
If Sony had (and they could have, and even might even have) released motion sensing tech and Nintendo hadn't, everyone would have laughed at them.
Nintendo validated Sony's motion-sensing more than Sony validated Nintendo.
Negativecool @ Oct 28th 2006 5:52PM
Ok....
30 BUCKS FOR TILT AND RUMBLE!!!
50 BUCKS MORE THAN 10 YRS LATER, WITHOUT RUMBLE!
Is anyone else pissed about this...well, anyone that would have bought a PS3 at some point. Anyone?
Mullinator @ Oct 28th 2006 5:53PM
So you are saying the majority of posts you have made regarding the Wii are not unusually negative Optimus Prime?
FuzzyPickles @ Oct 28th 2006 5:59PM
"Nintendo sux and all of itS so called good games are remakes of games i played back in 1983 !!!"
In a past life, maybe?
Obviously, if you were alive in 1983, you'd at least respect, if not love, Nintendo simply on the grounds that they're not Atari. Sure, after ten years they became arrogant, cocky motherfu.... wait... hmmm... who reminds of Ninty circa 1995? I can't figure it out.....
m4ndo @ Oct 28th 2006 6:06PM
I think the lack of rumble is more of a big deal than most people think it is. I would rather have rumble than a gimmicky motion sensing feature. Rumble is essential to some types of games. In FPS for example it can tell you if you are getting hit from the side or from behind. And I really don't like the whole idea of pushing the controller forward to do a melee attack in Resistance. If I had to do that everytime I wanted to melee someone in Halo I would kill myself because of the amount of times you melee in a game like that. It might be a good feature occasionally but I think developers will try to come up with dfferent ways to use it that will just end up being annoying.
Optimus Prime @ Oct 28th 2006 6:06PM
"So you are saying the majority of posts you have made regarding the Wii are not unusually negative Optimus Prime?"
Yes, my comments may come off as negative to people who are completely unsnarled by Nintendo's and MS's PR machine; which is further exploited by posts such as this one to enhance the hit count on joystick.
Nintendo has not done a good job of managing consumer expectations on Wii (eg. those moronic RedSteel ads where people are ducking behind couches and pillars for cover). And, so, most people just lap up the PR blindly and, surprise, are offended when a counter argument or different perspective is presented.
Im gonna have fun with my Wii; but, its hardly revolutionary, its not gonna change my life, and its definitely not gonna change the course of gaming 180 degrees. Its a motion controller + pointer (hence my intial comment of Power Glove and NES Mouse) which can be augmented with attachments such as the nunchuck and Classic controller. Thats all it is folks.
Josh @ Oct 28th 2006 6:14PM
Yeah, motion controls are not required on Wii games, though the only example of this I can think of is Super Smash Bros. Brawl.
Mullinator @ Oct 28th 2006 6:15PM
And the same cannot be argued for the PS3 or 360 Optimus? You insulted Kevin here for his attitude towards the PS3 but then you yourself hypocritically assume that the PS3 unlike the Wii does not deserve the same kind of insults. If you are going to claim no bias then either insult all systems equally or don't insult any at all.
Ringworm @ Oct 28th 2006 6:17PM
Sony called Nintendo's motion controller a gimmick and Sony fanboys agreed Then at E-3 2006 Sony introduced their INNOVATIVE Tilt controller without rumble and Sony fanboys changed their mind and proudly endorsed their favorite console maker's halfassed version of Ninty's Wiimote which was an idea from the start and not tacked on at the very last minute. Immitation is the purest form of flattery, especialy when it's not executed properly.....
lolersticks @ Oct 28th 2006 6:19PM
Can anyone get negative stars? If it hasn't been done before, I'd like to nominate Optimus Prime to take the plunge on behalf of all of us.
David @ Oct 28th 2006 6:22PM
Of course Sony added it last minute. There were reports that it was added as little as 10 days before E3 this year. Of course they are copying Nintendo and doing a bad job.
My thought is, why does it matter?
All it does to me is make the Sony fanboys that were picking on Nintendo's controler shut up because Sony added it in.
Sony did a bad job, and it's old news, so why bring it back up?
Brad Lee @ Oct 28th 2006 6:50PM
I think the Wii is going to change games significantly because, although the motion controls are not exactly required, it would be a pain in the ass to create a traditional game without them. I believe that was intentional on the part of Nintendo, hence why the wiimote part only has two buttons, and why the nunchuck was devised as an attachment. It is clear that Nintendo's intention is to disrupt the industry, which will prove to be both good and bad.
On the negative side there will be cross platform games with less than appealing graphics and stupid motion sensing tacked on. These games will probably suck in comparison to the versions on 360 and PS3.
But on the positive end there will be entirely new genres created for Wii. There will be games that simply cannot be played on other systems, and theoretically, the use of actual full scale movements (not just tilting) will create a more immersive experience for games designed specifically for the system.
Personally, I've been getting bored as hell with traditional games. Since I got my DS I've spent at least half of my gaming hours on it, even though I have a 360 and all three last gen systems. I just think DS games are more fun because they offer new gaming experiences.
I don't think Wii will ultimately revolutionize the industry, and I don't think every single next-next-gen console will contain motion controllers like it just to keep up. Instead, I think Wii will split the gaming community into those who want new games that involve motion, and those who would rather stick with traditional games and controllers. I also think Wii will introduce new gamers while PS3 and 360 will mostly just fight over already established territory.
And I doubt the sixaxis was used to steal Nintendo's thunder, rather I think it was used to keep their core from converting to Nintendo's side. See, now when Nintendo fans say "The Wii's got motion sensing!" Sony fans can retort "Well so does PS3!"
@ Optimus Prime
You really do make yourself look like a douchebag by ranting about how everyone gobbles up Nintendo and MS PR without mentioning a thing on Sony's PR. If you really weren't biased you'd make mention of how assinine Sony's PR is too, but since you only mention MS and Nintendo, you just come off as a biased douchebag.
And the thing about misrepresentation of marketing is just ridiculous man. The videos with gamers ducking behind couches and whatnot are meant to be metaphorical. It's meant to show that you're more 'in the game' with motion sensitivity. It is clearly not meant to be taken literally.
Rabish12 @ Oct 28th 2006 6:51PM
Optimus: if "most people just lap up the PR blindly", then that means that Nintendo is doing an excellent job. That's what a PR department is supposed to make people do, so if that claim's true then Nintendo's has been VERY successful.
thatguy @ Oct 28th 2006 6:53PM
The wiimote and sixaxis both suck because Bill Gates said so.
I like apple juice.
Paco From Del Taco @ Oct 28th 2006 6:56PM
Worst post on joystiq yet. Nintendos gimmicks are obviously getting to the lower level of humanity. Enjoy your games slapping around rabbits. Seriously, nintendo is the KING of rehash, and you all love it. Theres one born every minute.... And its usually a fan of the Wii.
Rabish12 @ Oct 28th 2006 6:58PM
#39: Capcom is the king of rehash. Nintendo, on the other hand, only rehashes often in two series (Pokémon and Mario Party). Aside from that, most of their sequels tend to play very differently from previous games in their respective series.
Nintendo's the king of whoring out character, not of rehashing games.
idioteraser @ Oct 28th 2006 6:59PM
Nintendo designed the power glove from a ten thousand dollar robotic arm controller built by NASA.
Mattel was contracted to manufactor the power glove. It was a way to keep the price down since Mattel had the factories needed. Nintendo lowered the price by streamlining the NASA tech.
The ten thousand dollar controller is still used to this day in research labs that would be too dangerous for the human to mess with the stuff involved. Heck the tech is going to be used a lot with space exploration since it is a teleprescence device.
VR researchers btw loved the powerglove since they could modify it and it would as well as two to three thousand dollar devices.
The powerglove was actually quite advanced. The flaw was that the NES wasn't up to processing the signals and the games weren't actually built for the powerglove.
Rowd149 @ Oct 28th 2006 7:01PM
As much as I hate to admit it, I have to say that the Sony fanboys do have a point when talking about the wiimote. Do you think Nintendo would have done something as drastic with the Wii in terms of design if they hadn't been losing so bad this generation? If you back up, and look at it over the course of years instead of months, Nintendo's strategy is kind of tacked on... Or you could say that it was a calculated response to how badly they were losing in the market...
That being said, I whole-heartedly agree with the idea that Sony tacked on the motion sensing fuctionality at the last minute. It's so obvious, and embarrassing that they'd do something so blatant and underhanded. My main concern is that Bill Gates' prediction will come true, and motion sensing controls will prove to be unwieldy on a regular controller (thought the wiimote probably won't fall to that fate because it was designed for that). Either way, only time will tell.
Brad Hodson @ Oct 28th 2006 7:07PM
Consider what Peter Molyneux said about the Wiimote:
"I've realised I'm an incredibly lazy person when I play games, and actually slouching back on the sofa, playing on my beer belly, is my most comfortable position. When I have to get up, it's painful. I make noises and start grunting."
crimemaster gogo @ Oct 28th 2006 7:10PM
First of all leave optimus prime alone u asses and if Nintendo are whoring their characters then what does that make of sony. Last time i checked they had fucking 5 tekkens in two generations and dont get me started on GT (each iteration was exactly the same), devil may cry, jak, Mgs etc.
Oh and the end of it all is that if Nintendo hadnt gone with motion sensing then all ud have is a piece of plastic with no rumble and obviously GIANT CRABS!!
Night Elve @ Oct 28th 2006 7:14PM
Plain simple i know you guys really like this never ending Fanboy war but people has different likes, so if you like Nintendo buy a Nintendo product and so on ... Who cares what consoles has x thing and the others don't.
At the end the most important thing is that you keep satisfy with your purchase.
As for me i am gonna buy a PlayStation 3 so what?
Optimus Prime @ Oct 28th 2006 7:13PM
"Nintendo's the king of whoring out character, not of rehashing games."
lol .. thanks for that, its funny 'cause its true.
"Optimus: if "most people just lap up the PR blindly", then that means that Nintendo is doing an excellent job. That's what a PR department is supposed to make people do, so if that claim's true then Nintendo's has been VERY successful."
Yes, they have been very successful; you only have to read some of the comments on Joystiq.
"And the thing about misrepresentation of marketing is just ridiculous man. The videos with gamers ducking behind couches and whatnot are meant to be metaphorical. It's meant to show that you're more 'in the game' with motion sensitivity. It is clearly not meant to be taken literally."
Of course it is.
Now, explain to Jr that he needs to stay within range and sight of the wiibar so that the wii can pick up his coordinates.
Nintendo is showing something that works (pointing and gestures) and extending that to something that doesnt (hiding behind couches).
Rabish12 @ Oct 28th 2006 7:23PM
#44: Sony doesn't make Tekken, or Metal Gear Solid, or Devil May Cry. That'd be third-party developers right there. As for Gran Turismo and Jak, I don't see Jak Tennis, Jak Hoops, Jak Baseball, Jak Soccer, Jak Party... you see where I'm going with this. Sequels on Nintendo's systems may play differently from their predecessors, but they still whore their characters and put their most popular one(s) in the vast majority of the new first-party series that they create, as long as it's possible. They know that those characters will be able to push those games, so they use those characters to do so.
EdZ @ Oct 28th 2006 7:42PM
The sixaxis patent was filed before the wiimote was revealed. Sony did not copy Nintendo in that respect, QED.
Not that I don't think the lack of rumble at the expense of not paying off Immersion is a stupid move, equally as stupid as Immersion holding such a patent in the first place.
James @ Oct 28th 2006 7:51PM
Flattery is the floating cockroach in the milk of human kindness.
Epic @ Oct 28th 2006 7:46PM
This discussion is petty and all together meaningless. It doesn't matter which company was first to the shelves with gimmicky motion sensing toys. Motion sensitivity wasn't invented by a video game company, and the idea is too obvious to be accused of being stolen. The real test is how it's best implemented. Sony uses motion sensitivity as an enhancement to a contemporary gamepad. Nintendo takes a completely different approach, replacing the gamepad with a much more extensive motion interface. The approaches are entirely distinct. I happen to prefer the SIXAXIS model, just because I can envision it appropriate for a wider breadth of content.