Warm Tea: The Bully boy-on-boy kiss goes mainstream
by Alexander Sliwinski 
{ Oct 28th 2006 at 7:00PM }
Reuters reported on Bully's boy-on-boy kissing, brilliantly dubbed "Warm Tea," by Sex in Video Games author Brenda Brathwaite. It's only a matter of time now before the Associated Press picks up the story and news outlets across the country jump into the fray. Depending on where you live on the planet Earth, you're sure to get various versions of spin on the story. So, it's a good time to go over some developments, and clear up some issues, since our initial piece:- Joystiq has been in contact with Eliot Mizrachi, spokesperson for the ESRB, and he reaffirms that they were aware of the kissing when they gave a "T" (Teen) rating to Bully. The rating description clearly states "sexual themes" on the box.
- Bully is not the first title to have playable same-sex interaction. The Sims, which also has a "T" rating stating "sexual themes" on the box, allows for a lot more than just kissing. There is even same-sex adoption.
- Brathwaite said to Reuters, "It's symbolic that the diversity that's appearing in broader media is making its way to games in a way that's not insulting or necessarily sensationalistic."
- Everyone's favorite anti-games lawyer Jack Thompson, sent a letter to ESRB President, Patricia Vance, "We just found gay sexual content in Bully, as Jimmy Hopkins makes out with another male student. Good luck with your 'Teen' rating now, Patty." Let's get something straight right off the bat -- Thompson found nothing. His letter wasn't sent until after Joystiq wrote about GayGamer's video, and we know Thompson reads this site. Thompson was already in possession of Bully, which he requested as part of his political Miami lawsuit to block Bully. Thompson had his chance to make the kissing part of his lawsuit.
- The blond student consistently showed is not the only boy Jimmy Hopkins can kiss. Apparently one boy from each clique is kissable. There is an African-American geek who can be kissed. So, not only is there gay kissing, but interracial gay kissing as well. (Please sense the sarcasm in that bullet point)
The ESRB would be insane if they were bullied into giving an "M" (Mature 17+) rating to Bully, as this story continues to gain traction in the mainstream press. Not only is it politically damaging, they'd be instantly contacted by gay rights advocacy groups, propelling this controversy into a civil-rights issue asking, "Why is kissing a boy different than kissing a girl?" It would also force the ginormous Electronic Arts into the mix to defend the "T " rated Sims. We're willing to wager that Electronic Arts, which has a Human Rights Campaign corporate equality index score of 88 and had transsexual game designer Danielle Bunten Berry on staff, will put up a good fight if challenged. Rockstar played this brilliantly, they slid in a topic that is controversial, but perfectly defensible, and those that would attack "Warm Tea," won't have an easy time of it compared to "Hot Coffee."
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Xiath @ Oct 28th 2006 7:10PM
I still don't see why people are making a fuss of this. Sure you play as a boy and you are kissing other boys, and now I haven't played the game so I'm not sure and someone who has can probably fill me in, but is it really any different than in Fable how you could marry another guy and have "sex" with him, it's not a main part of the game, its just a little extra.
Now is this the same case in Bully, you don't have to make out with other students, but you can if you want to. Or is it something you have to do to progress the story?
Johnny @ Oct 28th 2006 7:12PM
Um...
Fable
otakucode @ Oct 28th 2006 7:14PM
I've got to say, I love Rockstar. I've never been a big fan of their games, but the social dialog they raise always illuminates a large bunch of idiots that generate a lot of laughs. "You laugh so that you don't cry" kind of laughs, but that's all the news seems to deliver nowadays...
Eih\\\\\\\'Beir @ Oct 28th 2006 7:24PM
"The controversy has done nothing but fuel sales."
Umm...I dunno, does boy/boy kissing really "fuel" sales?
Spudnick @ Oct 28th 2006 7:27PM
fable was rated M
otakucode @ Oct 28th 2006 7:30PM
One thing that I don't understand in Bully is why they didn't develop it. You make out with the guy from the jobk clique and he doesn't get ostracized? You kiss the boys in public and girls don't become more reluctant towards you? You don't get beat up by homophobes? Bullworth Academy is a very vicious place, but same-sex experimentation is viewed with tolerance? Only 1 boy from each clique? Not to mention the fact you can't even choose to play as a female (no doubt because of Rockstars view that the future mean nobody reads so it would nearly double the voice work).
Jonn @ Oct 28th 2006 7:44PM
Otakucode has a point. My guess is that if it were shown, people would raise more of a stink about the fact that homosexuality is discriminated against-which would be perfectly appropriate for the setting-than the homosexuality itself.
Also, I honestly don't see why OMG GAY KISSING should up the rating, and I'm a conservative.
Joe @ Oct 28th 2006 7:42PM
@6 Well it has to start somewhere doesn't it? I mean, good for Rockstar for throwing that in at all
@2 Oh... that feels rather nice XD
It should be interesting to see how this goes.
Wolfrider @ Oct 28th 2006 7:51PM
Same sex kissing? In a video game? My god! I mean, no where in America's media is there same sex kissing.
With the following exceptions:
The Simpsons
South Park
Family Guy
Ellen
Sex and the City
The L Word
The Sims
Fable
Six Feet Under
Will and Grace
Friends
...
...
and don't forget Bert and Ernie on Sesame Street. Brothers.... right....
Isn't it interesting that even the intellect present in videogames has evolved passed the world view of those who still believe the earth was created in seven days and that homosexuals are monsters from the netherworld.
Jose @ Oct 28th 2006 7:57PM
Gays FTW! I really hope people make a big stink out of this, just so that we may be able to see their true colors. They are just hatemongers looking for a new crusade. I did laugh out loud at the homosexual and *gasp* interracial kiss line though, that was sweet!
Rabidkeebler @ Oct 28th 2006 8:00PM
I gotta say I like the "Warm Tea" label. really funny.
malcolm @ Oct 28th 2006 8:03PM
I can't see how you could possibly be angry about this and not be intolerant towards gays. Does boy/girl kissing justify an M rating? Of course not. So why does boy/boy?
zbarron @ Oct 28th 2006 8:14PM
Let me get this straight...
Hating homosexuals = Wrong!
Hating homophobes = OK!
?
koppite1 @ Oct 28th 2006 8:15PM
It's an issue because this is an American site. 'Hot Coffee' didn't register in the UK (or for that matter most of the west, apart from Australia and a few others). Ah America
_habit_ @ Oct 29th 2006 7:47PM
Next thing we know, we're going to be seeing homosexual RPG's, where the main character is trying to rescue their same-sex-lover (Raphael), from a black, jewish, KKK member skin-head evil-villian lesbian!!!
Jose @ Oct 28th 2006 9:00PM
zbarron, we don't hate you, we just want you to stop dictating public opinion through your holier than thou moral outrage. It's just an extension of normal folks' hate for bigots, racists, and hateful people in general. These gay people aren't forcing me to be gay, so why should I force my heterosexuality on them? Live and let live.From the Reuters article: "'I can't have my kids playing this game. This is morally reprehensible. GTA (Grand Theft Auto) is a real man's game, Bully is a disgrace,' wrote a poster using the handle spideRRR on GameSpot.com." Bravo on the great parenting my guy, bravo!
eight @ Oct 28th 2006 8:20PM
13 posts and no ignorant rants about why boy kissing boy is wrong. I'm proud of you Joystiq readers. Applaud yourselves.
otakucode @ Oct 28th 2006 8:20PM
malcolm: Consider the options when thinking about homosexuality.
1. It's biological.
2. It's not biological, but a perfectly fine choice.
3. It's not biological, but a perfectly fine choice for consenting adults.
4. It's not biological, but a terrible choice for misguided adults, but as a society we don't have the right to restrict them.
5. It's not biological, a terrible choice for misguided adults, and as a society we have the right to stop them.
6. It's a scourge on the planet and must be eradicated.
I think you'll find that, regardless of societal progress, not many people agree with the first or second options. Plenty of people agreeing with the other viewpoints think that their view is perfectly reasonable and tolerant, and in most circumstances it might appear to be. But when you have a videogame letting teenagers play around with sexuality like Bully does, you're going to hear them rail against it. Same-sex experimentation is extremely common, especially in the early teen years, but our society is pretty far from being able to deal with it maturely.
dkh @ Oct 28th 2006 8:31PM
There's a real part of me that's against this not because of homophobia but because it detracts Jimmy's character and the point of the game. For instance, I like action-packed violent movies. I do not however enjoy movies that glorify violence and really try to present it as a genuinely positive thing.
Jimmy Hopkins is capable of pinching girls' butts. Okay, cool. That's funny, cute, mischevious, fits the character and the setting, but I get a little creeped out by the fact that he can pinch the butts of the young girls. That shouldn't be an option. Same with kissing boys. I don't see it as a part of Jimmy's character and as has been pointed out characters don't (as far as I know) react with shock.
I'm not far into the game- maybe my opionions will change as new plot points come about. Just clarifying.
I'm all for game companies putting in homosexual material to further gay rights and add realism and so on. But do any of you really think that's why they did this? It strikes me as more of a way to get more publicity and shock value.
....It's a gray area, I'll admit. I'd feel awkward playing as a gay Belmont in Castlevania because I would just repeatedly ask "Why the Hell is he gay? Why does that matter to the plot or anything? Are they making a statement? Are they trying to get publicity?" Maybe I'm just not used to a culture with homosexuality as a very real part of it.
Just throwing that out there.
HIghDef Edition @ Oct 28th 2006 8:43PM
Hey otakucode, I don't give a shite who is or not GAY. Just let me know what is inside a game before I buy it. Games like these are not my cup of Tea but I'm all for choice. I may never understand why one man find another sexy but I'll fight for your rights as well as I would a hetrosexual's.
midwat @ Oct 28th 2006 8:50PM
Is "temperature liquid" going to be to gaming scandals what "-gate" is to political scandals?
'Cause I'm all for that.
(Joystiq folks - give me a ruling here)
Ignatius @ Oct 28th 2006 8:49PM
High Def, I'm glad you're one of the smart people. Most homophobes look at it as, "They can't be gay because I'm not gay." At least, that's how one of my 'friends' does, and it really bugs the hell out of me. I'm bisexual and he can't wrap his mind around the fact that homosexuality is natural, as much as he dislikes it. If it was a choice, he could make it just as easily, and he CANNOT. :P
otakucode @ Oct 28th 2006 8:51PM
HIghDef Edition: The box clearly states that the game contains sexual themes. The ESRB does not (and I think should not) distinguish between straight and gay sexual themes. Simply because you read "sexual themes" to mean "boys and girls" and nothing else doesn't mean anything was hidden from you.
Edge of Blade @ Oct 28th 2006 8:59PM
My very astute wife just commented that male/male kissing is "sexual", but male/female kissing isn't? I suppose any kiss should be Christian Kryptonite (TM) then...
Or love. You know those christians. They hate love. Except when it's their god damning them to an eternity of torment.
Kincyr @ Oct 28th 2006 9:02PM
Bugs Bunny kisses Elmer Fudd all the time and I never heard anyone complaining. Jack really should read 1 Thessalonians 5:26 which address kissing between males.
Jason @ Oct 28th 2006 9:07PM
Rockstar is a company that continues to impress. They have an image and they do what they like to it. They don't uphold to any CRITICS and create interesting exciting content on every format.
They keep everyone guessing and I can't wait to see where they go for the future. Good on Rockstar and keep bringing the fight to Jack Thompson...making him look like the biggest dumbass ever.
Random Insanity @ Oct 28th 2006 9:13PM
@ 16
Hating Jews = Wrong!
Hating Nazis = OK!
frodo @ Oct 28th 2006 9:20PM
GayGamer.net's clip was shown on VH1's Best Week Ever last night. Go fruit brute!
Canebi @ Oct 28th 2006 9:22PM
"but our society is pretty far from being able to deal with it maturely."
Sadly "Your society" is the US, Canada and Most of Europe doesn't even bring these things up as issues because they aren't. The only ones making any deal about this is the US.
This would never make a headline or newspost in Canada.
zbarron @ Oct 28th 2006 9:30PM
@Jose and Random Insanity
I am not homophobic but I was just trying to point out the hypocricies of hating hateful people. If you hate a hater, doesn't that also make you a hater and then deemed worthy of hatred?
I wasn't going for the holier than thou attitude, I was merely trying to get people to see another facet of an issue.
Vlad @ Oct 28th 2006 9:49PM
besides the actual issue itself, which I find terribly amusing as a gay videogame lover, I think this was one of the better written Joystiq articles in a while...informative, a little snarky but not nasty, and with a clear opinion without being whiny or petty. well done author-person.
the fact this is raising a stick makes me re-realize that we (the gay community) has a long way to go, but that things are getting a little better. I mean, most people seem to be ok with this. 20, or even 10 years ago, I doubt that would have been the case.
pasta @ Oct 28th 2006 11:38PM
Even though homosexuality isn't as natural as it would seem in the eyes of a 'god'. It's still an actual awareness to be dealt with in our current times. I have huge respect towards Rockstar Games for putting it in this game, however I feel that it's just another form of looking for a black sheep to outcast in the case of the controversy that the game is casting. I mean, the game's gotten bad comments from politicians and what not since it was originally announced and this looks like just another pointless, winless crusade against the game, making the game in fact more popular amongst casual gamers. They would really want to see what the fuzz is about, and to be honest, so would I.
Note: this comment is coming from a bisexual casual gamer who is waiting for the game to release in Europe on the PC.
Bob @ Oct 28th 2006 11:48PM
Re: 16/otakucode
Are you honestly suggesting that peoples' opinions should determine what is or is not biological? Remember about 400 years ago when we decided that issues of science should be based on conclusions supported by reason? It was called the Enlightenment.
It is patently immoral to consider human rights issues in light of popularity or popular vote. This illogical bit of immorality has been the gateway to every human rights disaster in history, from popular support of slavery to the Holocaust.
I am disgusted.
Inspector81 @ Oct 29th 2006 12:23AM
@17: Isn't the pinching butts thing much worse than the guy kiss? It's teaching guys that pinching the butts of unwilling girls is a fun, mischievous thing to do. It's actually sexual harassment.
Kung Fu Russ @ Oct 29th 2006 1:24AM
While I'm not really offended by this, it is a little peculiar (queer?) that this is a game in which you can make schoolboys kiss.
Pince @ Oct 29th 2006 1:14AM
zbarron-
You make a very good point that is not made nearly enough. It is very common to see people being, to put it simply, intolerant of other intolerant people. It is silly, but it happens all the time. The point is, you can take the moral high ground (and you should if you want to make a good point), but, in doing so, you should never should never show cruelty or intolerance towards those that you are criticizing because then you become just as bad as they are.
As a counterpoint though, I think when people say "homophobe" they do not refer to those people who are simply uncomofortable with homosexuality. That is just fine. It is generally an uncontrollable product of their environment, not having been exposed to many homosexuals, etc., and as long as they do no harm, giving people like that shit is not a good way to help them be more comofortable with the idea of homosexuality.
When people say "homophobe" they generally refer to those that are homophobic and act on it by expressing hate and disdain for homosexuals. As I said, this still does not excuse expressions of hate towards "homophobes", but if people seem to agressively oppose homophobia, in most cases, they are more opposed to the sexual dscrimination that often comes with homophobia.
Anyone who does hate people simply for being uncomfortable with homosexuality can fairly be labeled an ignorant hypocrite though. That I will agree with.
BladeofKeyZ @ Oct 29th 2006 3:23AM
I can't believe this is getting so much publicity.
No one is getting more free media time than Rockstar right now. I'd go as far as saying that they'd expected this to happen and perhaps even encouraged it.
The fact that so many people are running in circles over this is overbearing.
Jack Thompson using this controversy is sickening and should say a lot about him. He's a bitch if I ever knew one.
Next-Gen-Gamer @ Oct 29th 2006 1:55AM
Gay in the media is such BS. It's a gimmick. When a show about gay people debuts on Bravo, some people think "that's cool that they don't care about sexual preference". Meanwhile, the 'suits'/higher-ups know that there are tons of people interested because it's seen as abnormal. They launch these shows because they know that gay sells. They're not trying to keep an open mind. They're making money.
The same can be said for Bully. It's a total gimmick. If it wasn't meant to be a big deal, and just something that happens in every day life, then the player would be able to kiss just about every boy. Rockstar's reputation for trying to be "edgy" doesn't make it look any better. Rockstar goes out of the way to create controversy. I don't have anything against it. I'm just opposed to all these people who buy into this crap that some company within the media is trying to open people's minds. It's all about the $$$.
Tom @ Oct 29th 2006 1:55AM
As long as Jimmy Hopkins doesn't become a Congressional Page during the course of the game, I've got no problem with it.
Russ @ Oct 29th 2006 7:22AM
Enjoy playing your game where you watch 15 year old boys kissing. Am I the only one thinking this? If it was a game with a 15 year old boy and girl kissing, then I would be a little uncomfortable...It's a bit....Peadofied.
otakucode @ Oct 29th 2006 8:40AM
Bob: You misunderstood my post entirely. I listed the various viewpoints people hold on homosexuality and nothing more. I did not, and would not, argue that what is or is not biological should be determined by consensus rather than scientific investigation. If one wants to understand where the outcry comes from when people start railing against Bully exposing kids to homosexual innuendo, you have to understand the viewpoints held, regardless of their basis in reality.
Russ: Pedophilia is an attraction to pre-pubescant kids. Don't water it down by trying to expand its definition to include adolescents. Puberty isn't some trick played by evolution trying to destroy the human race by opening up sexual urges before the mind can handle them.
bladeofkeyz @ Oct 29th 2006 9:14AM
I don't think the 15-year-old Hopkins can kiss little girls and boys.
I'm only on Chapter II but hell, maybe by chapter V, everyone busts out in a giant orgy.
SuedeJ @ Dec 24th 2006 5:10AM
I don't understand why sexuality is such a big issue in things, i'm hetero but i don't feel the need to go around telling everybody about it, but when somebody might be gay or bi (which in a lot of peoples minds is the same as gay) it's suddenly an issue that deserves worldwide news coverage, even if it's in a game. why does Jimmy have to be gay just because he has the OPTION to kiss boys? can't the individual gamer decide for themselves whether to kiss boys or girls or no one at all according to how they wish to play the game? perhaps Rockstar didn't want to alienate the homosexual community by forcing them to play the game as a heterosexual, i would imagine it would be as uncomfortable as somebody forcing me to play as a gay belmont in castlevania as somebody mentioned above
Edge of Blade @ Oct 29th 2006 11:19AM
Random Insanity:
By mentioning the Nazis, you have invoked Godwin's Law.
"There is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's Law. Thus Godwin's Law serves also to impose an upper bound on thread length in general. However, it is rare for the person accused of an unfair comparison to Nazism to concede the argument themselves. Therefore, the argument will likely arise in another thread if the participants have a sufficient level of emotional attachment to the topic of debate. This places the long-term utility of Godwin's Law into question." -Wikipedia
Damian G. @ Oct 29th 2006 12:17PM
I think the real question is: Can the Bully protagonist pull a Foley and claim he's an alcoholic?
Grant @ Oct 29th 2006 1:46PM
That said, I don't think anyone on here said they "hate homophobes". And even if they did, Bill Maher said it best: "Don't get so tolerant you tolerate intolerance".
benedict @ Oct 29th 2006 2:49PM
@13
the preachers of tolerance are usually intolerant of the intolerant. if you see what i mean.
whilst seemingly hypocritical, it's also perfectly logical; how can you promote tolerance without villifying intolerance?
Babylonian @ Oct 29th 2006 3:38PM
Okay, I've made this post three times now, because for some reason it keeps getting deleted.
"His letter wasn't sent until after Joystiq wrote about GayGamer's video, and we know Thompson reads this site."
What makes you guys think he found it through Joystiq and not any of the other hundreds of gaming sites that reported on it?
Crystal W @ Oct 29th 2006 7:08PM
Apparently some ppl are under the impression that if popular culture reflects whats really going on in the lives of our kids it will encourage them to do those things. Parents hate to be confronted with real every day things in their kids lives because they feel like if they don't know about it, it doesn't happen. So they think stuff like this is going to encourage it, when it's already happening, if maybe in private.
V1L3 @ Oct 29th 2006 7:17PM
"24. Bugs Bunny kisses Elmer Fudd all the time and I never heard anyone complaining."
That's bestiality.