Reuters reported on Bully's boy-on-boy kissing, brilliantly dubbed "Warm Tea," by Sex in Video Games author Brenda Brathwaite. It's only a matter of time now before the Associated Press picks up the story and news outlets across the country jump into the fray. Depending on where you live on the planet Earth, you're sure to get various versions of spin on the story. So, it's a good time to go over some developments, and clear up some issues, since our initial piece:- Joystiq has been in contact with Eliot Mizrachi, spokesperson for the ESRB, and he reaffirms that they were aware of the kissing when they gave a "T" (Teen) rating to Bully. The rating description clearly states "sexual themes" on the box.
- Bully is not the first title to have playable same-sex interaction. The Sims, which also has a "T" rating stating "sexual themes" on the box, allows for a lot more than just kissing. There is even same-sex adoption.
- Brathwaite said to Reuters, "It's symbolic that the diversity that's appearing in broader media is making its way to games in a way that's not insulting or necessarily sensationalistic."
- Everyone's favorite anti-games lawyer Jack Thompson, sent a letter to ESRB President, Patricia Vance, "We just found gay sexual content in Bully, as Jimmy Hopkins makes out with another male student. Good luck with your 'Teen' rating now, Patty." Let's get something straight right off the bat -- Thompson found nothing. His letter wasn't sent until after Joystiq wrote about GayGamer's video, and we know Thompson reads this site. Thompson was already in possession of Bully, which he requested as part of his political Miami lawsuit to block Bully. Thompson had his chance to make the kissing part of his lawsuit.
- The blond student consistently showed is not the only boy Jimmy Hopkins can kiss. Apparently one boy from each clique is kissable. There is an African-American geek who can be kissed. So, not only is there gay kissing, but interracial gay kissing as well. (Please sense the sarcasm in that bullet point)
The ESRB would be insane if they were bullied into giving an "M" (Mature 17+) rating to Bully, as this story continues to gain traction in the mainstream press. Not only is it politically damaging, they'd be instantly contacted by gay rights advocacy groups, propelling this controversy into a civil-rights issue asking, "Why is kissing a boy different than kissing a girl?" It would also force the ginormous Electronic Arts into the mix to defend the "T " rated Sims. We're willing to wager that Electronic Arts, which has a Human Rights Campaign corporate equality index score of 88 and had transsexual game designer Danielle Bunten Berry on staff, will put up a good fight if challenged. Rockstar played this brilliantly, they slid in a topic that is controversial, but perfectly defensible, and those that would attack "Warm Tea," won't have an easy time of it compared to "Hot Coffee."
(Page 1) Reader Comments
Now is this the same case in Bully, you don't have to make out with other students, but you can if you want to. Or is it something you have to do to progress the story?
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Fable
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Umm...I dunno, does boy/boy kissing really "fuel" sales?
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@2 Oh... that feels rather nice XD
It should be interesting to see how this goes.
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Also, I honestly don't see why OMG GAY KISSING should up the rating, and I'm a conservative.
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With the following exceptions:
The Simpsons
South Park
Family Guy
Ellen
Sex and the City
The L Word
The Sims
Fable
Six Feet Under
Will and Grace
Friends
...
...
and don't forget Bert and Ernie on Sesame Street. Brothers.... right....
Isn't it interesting that even the intellect present in videogames has evolved passed the world view of those who still believe the earth was created in seven days and that homosexuals are monsters from the netherworld.
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Hating homosexuals = Wrong!
Hating homophobes = OK!
?
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1. It's biological.
2. It's not biological, but a perfectly fine choice.
3. It's not biological, but a perfectly fine choice for consenting adults.
4. It's not biological, but a terrible choice for misguided adults, but as a society we don't have the right to restrict them.
5. It's not biological, a terrible choice for misguided adults, and as a society we have the right to stop them.
6. It's a scourge on the planet and must be eradicated.
I think you'll find that, regardless of societal progress, not many people agree with the first or second options. Plenty of people agreeing with the other viewpoints think that their view is perfectly reasonable and tolerant, and in most circumstances it might appear to be. But when you have a videogame letting teenagers play around with sexuality like Bully does, you're going to hear them rail against it. Same-sex experimentation is extremely common, especially in the early teen years, but our society is pretty far from being able to deal with it maturely.
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Jimmy Hopkins is capable of pinching girls' butts. Okay, cool. That's funny, cute, mischevious, fits the character and the setting, but I get a little creeped out by the fact that he can pinch the butts of the young girls. That shouldn't be an option. Same with kissing boys. I don't see it as a part of Jimmy's character and as has been pointed out characters don't (as far as I know) react with shock.
I'm not far into the game- maybe my opionions will change as new plot points come about. Just clarifying.
I'm all for game companies putting in homosexual material to further gay rights and add realism and so on. But do any of you really think that's why they did this? It strikes me as more of a way to get more publicity and shock value.
....It's a gray area, I'll admit. I'd feel awkward playing as a gay Belmont in Castlevania because I would just repeatedly ask "Why the Hell is he gay? Why does that matter to the plot or anything? Are they making a statement? Are they trying to get publicity?" Maybe I'm just not used to a culture with homosexuality as a very real part of it.
Just throwing that out there.
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'Cause I'm all for that.
(Joystiq folks - give me a ruling here)
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Or love. You know those christians. They hate love. Except when it's their god damning them to an eternity of torment.
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They keep everyone guessing and I can't wait to see where they go for the future. Good on Rockstar and keep bringing the fight to Jack Thompson...making him look like the biggest dumbass ever.
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Hating Jews = Wrong!
Hating Nazis = OK!
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Sadly "Your society" is the US, Canada and Most of Europe doesn't even bring these things up as issues because they aren't. The only ones making any deal about this is the US.
This would never make a headline or newspost in Canada.
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I am not homophobic but I was just trying to point out the hypocricies of hating hateful people. If you hate a hater, doesn't that also make you a hater and then deemed worthy of hatred?
I wasn't going for the holier than thou attitude, I was merely trying to get people to see another facet of an issue.
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the fact this is raising a stick makes me re-realize that we (the gay community) has a long way to go, but that things are getting a little better. I mean, most people seem to be ok with this. 20, or even 10 years ago, I doubt that would have been the case.
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Note: this comment is coming from a bisexual casual gamer who is waiting for the game to release in Europe on the PC.
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Are you honestly suggesting that peoples' opinions should determine what is or is not biological? Remember about 400 years ago when we decided that issues of science should be based on conclusions supported by reason? It was called the Enlightenment.
It is patently immoral to consider human rights issues in light of popularity or popular vote. This illogical bit of immorality has been the gateway to every human rights disaster in history, from popular support of slavery to the Holocaust.
I am disgusted.
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You make a very good point that is not made nearly enough. It is very common to see people being, to put it simply, intolerant of other intolerant people. It is silly, but it happens all the time. The point is, you can take the moral high ground (and you should if you want to make a good point), but, in doing so, you should never should never show cruelty or intolerance towards those that you are criticizing because then you become just as bad as they are.
As a counterpoint though, I think when people say "homophobe" they do not refer to those people who are simply uncomofortable with homosexuality. That is just fine. It is generally an uncontrollable product of their environment, not having been exposed to many homosexuals, etc., and as long as they do no harm, giving people like that shit is not a good way to help them be more comofortable with the idea of homosexuality.
When people say "homophobe" they generally refer to those that are homophobic and act on it by expressing hate and disdain for homosexuals. As I said, this still does not excuse expressions of hate towards "homophobes", but if people seem to agressively oppose homophobia, in most cases, they are more opposed to the sexual dscrimination that often comes with homophobia.
Anyone who does hate people simply for being uncomfortable with homosexuality can fairly be labeled an ignorant hypocrite though. That I will agree with.
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The same can be said for Bully. It's a total gimmick. If it wasn't meant to be a big deal, and just something that happens in every day life, then the player would be able to kiss just about every boy. Rockstar's reputation for trying to be "edgy" doesn't make it look any better. Rockstar goes out of the way to create controversy. I don't have anything against it. I'm just opposed to all these people who buy into this crap that some company within the media is trying to open people's minds. It's all about the $$$.
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No one is getting more free media time than Rockstar right now. I'd go as far as saying that they'd expected this to happen and perhaps even encouraged it.
The fact that so many people are running in circles over this is overbearing.
Jack Thompson using this controversy is sickening and should say a lot about him. He's a bitch if I ever knew one.
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Russ: Pedophilia is an attraction to pre-pubescant kids. Don't water it down by trying to expand its definition to include adolescents. Puberty isn't some trick played by evolution trying to destroy the human race by opening up sexual urges before the mind can handle them.
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I'm only on Chapter II but hell, maybe by chapter V, everyone busts out in a giant orgy.
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By mentioning the Nazis, you have invoked Godwin's Law.
"There is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's Law. Thus Godwin's Law serves also to impose an upper bound on thread length in general. However, it is rare for the person accused of an unfair comparison to Nazism to concede the argument themselves. Therefore, the argument will likely arise in another thread if the participants have a sufficient level of emotional attachment to the topic of debate. This places the long-term utility of Godwin's Law into question." -Wikipedia
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the preachers of tolerance are usually intolerant of the intolerant. if you see what i mean.
whilst seemingly hypocritical, it's also perfectly logical; how can you promote tolerance without villifying intolerance?
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"His letter wasn't sent until after Joystiq wrote about GayGamer's video, and we know Thompson reads this site."
What makes you guys think he found it through Joystiq and not any of the other hundreds of gaming sites that reported on it?
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That's bestiality.
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I wouldn't mind if I had seen any gay action - I'm with the "whatever floats your boat" brigade. My point is, they ain't shoving it in your face. You don't want to get off with guys, you don't gotta.
Not that this would put off the mighty Mr Thompson, whose beef with GTA rested on something your couldn't get to without third-party software.
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