Microsoft developer says Xbox 360 "equal in power" to PS3
by Blake Snow 
{ Nov 2nd 2006 at 1:15PM }
Oh, this is rich. In speaking with the Mercury News on Tuesday, the president of Silicon Knights (who has been a Microsoft second-party developer since 2004) had this to say when asked how Xbox 360 graphics compare to PlayStation 3's: "The 360 and the PS3 are equal in power in my eyes. Maybe the PS3 has more processing power. The 360 has more available memory. It's pretty much a net, net. The public perception of the PS3 was that it was much more powerful. To developers, they look even."His original interview notes said this: "I'm developing games on dated technology that don't look as good as my competitor's box," but fortunately his publicist had him change it at the last minute (that was close). All joking aside, we can respect bossman Denis Dyack's partial opinion. But the real point is it doesn't even matter.
[Thanks, Chri!]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Kevin @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:18PM
1st post before fanboyism sets in. :P
Inferno @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:19PM
confused... did joystiq add that line about outdated tech or was that really what he said.
screw ea @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:19PM
No, no fanboys here.
Marty @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:20PM
2nd post before fanboyism sets in. :P
Marty @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:20PM
Er, 4th.
Intentless @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:33PM
joystiq added it... just after that statement it says "all jokeing aside."
screw ea @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:22PM
But the real point is it doesn't even matter.
My thoughts exactly, but I can see why a multiplatforn dev would say that, cant really play faves
Neoxkc @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:21PM
5th I guess.
Also, I doubt he would have said that line about outdated tech.
He is after second-party.
crono141 @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:21PM
OMFG ANTI-SONY!
Because anything positive about anything else is anti-sony.
voghan @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:23PM
If it really doesn't matter then why bother posting your article? How old is this anyways? Four days old? Good job of keeping up on things.
k1llm3kwik @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:26PM
He didn't make the outdated tech comment. Blake Snow is very bias and far from a real journalist. He seems to hate games in general. I haven't seen to many Fav stories from him the past couple of days towards any consoles. I think he is just having PMS.
Captain Awesome @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:28PM
Is anyone surprised by this? Every Multi-platform developer who has commented on this topic has said the exact same thing. I think Joystiq has even posted similar comments in the past. I know IGN has.
CrazyD @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:31PM
Seriously, why is this a story? I don't understand. Developers on all platforms make comments like that every day. Not to mention he didn't said anything stupid to be made fun of.
Rather than your misleading title, he suggested that the PS3 had its strength and the 360 had its strengths, and for developers the end difference was pretty small. That seems very reasonable and, even if you believe its not true, is hardly idiotic or controversial.
Like you said, if it doesn't matter, WHY IS THIS A STORY? Is the point that he is saying something obvious and expected, or he is saying something obviously false? I don't get the point.
h0ss66 @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:34PM
Yeah its a great system, too bad it doesn't do jack because its stuck in an update/failure loop. Get your s*** together MS and quit ruining people's systems and then asking them to pay to have them shipped back to you so we can wait 2 weeks to get a refurb back that does the same thing, you morons.
Jake @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:58PM
Though he is biased, being 2nd party and all, his comments seem in line with the general perception of many devs. PS3 has more raw power, but is lacking in some other areas. Personally, I think that a game developed exclusively for PS3 by devs with a lot of experience and big budget 4 years from now will look SLIGHTLY better than a 360 game in an equal situation. HOWEVER, the 360 game may have some other advantages like AI, particle effects, etc.
The bottom line, the difference is negligible, like the 360 vs. PS2. You could say the 360 was more powerful, but the graphical difference couldn't really hinder a PS2 game from accomplishing the same goal as a 360 game.
Neoxkc @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:34PM
Why does everyone keep saying multiplatform developer?
Go to this link to find out what Second-party developer means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-party_developer
epluribus @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:36PM
I guess the telling quotes are these:
"how Xbox 360 graphics compare to PlayStation 3's"
Note how he's referring to "graphics" here, and how Blake (true to form) chooses the headline "Xbox 360 "equal in power" to PS3"?
And this nugget: "But the real point is it doesn't even matter."
Coming from Blakey-boy, who seems to think that battery recalls, company financials, advertising, and EVERYTHING ELSE matters, but not system processing power. Well played.
Final Boss @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:34PM
It's "which has been a second-party." Silicon Knights is an organization, not a person, which means "who" is not grammatical accurate. Unless you're referring to Dyack being a second party all by himself.
x876543 @ Nov 9th 2006 12:35PM
CrazyD, The point is each console has a different price. So why choose the more expensive one over the other?
> @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:37PM
These guys need to STFU up and get Too Human gold, then they can talk all they want. Otherwise, they aint got sh!t to be talking about.
Frosty22 @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:39PM
You need to change that last paragraph, it is extremely misleading. Your "joking" is being taken seriously. Don't put quotations around something that someone did not actually say. If you were in graduate school, you would receive an F in that class for misrepresenting someone, not to mention sent to the judicial board to see if expulsion is needed.
I appreciate humor--but misrepresenting somebody is not humorous to me.
LaughingTarget @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:47PM
I think he is saying that the PS3 can't perform up to what it is being hyped to be. Yes, the PS3 has an incredible processor, but he is saying the supporting cast will make sure a good chunk of that processor goes unused.
Building a game console is like building a good American football team. Each component is a position. Imagine the Cell processor as the quarterback, BluRay as the running back, and the rest of the machine as the offensive line and recieving squad.
The Cell processor is Peyton Manning. BluRay is LaDainian Tomlinson. Great players in their own right and they can do a lot of damage to the other team. However, when the rest of the team is the Arizona Cardinals, even Manning and Tomlinson can't get them to the playoffs.
That is what this guy is saying. The PS3 has a beastly processor and a ton of storage space, but the rest of the machine is inferior to the 360. The 360 is more of a well balanced team where individual components don't need to hold up the workload another component is lacking.
Frosty22 @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:44PM
Oh... and by the way, they have created games for all 3-Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft.
james harley @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:44PM
hi,
i enjoy the site very much, but i think this "article" and its tonal inconsistencies underline the important issue of editorial responsibility. like a few of the responders above, i'm confused about the veracity of the quote attributed to the interviewee. is this article reportage or editorial comment? if it IS editorial comment, the article really should be labeled as such. unless a writer is highly skilled, sarcasm does not translate well in print. it is one of the pitfalls of online communication, so we need to be extra careful.
this may all seem a bit nit-picky, but i've only got a few hundred dollars to spend on a system and i'd like to get the most accurate information possible.
~ jim.
Inferno @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:47PM
Yea, I thought Sony fanboys would be eating this up cause of his comment. It seems he either think the 360 is outdated, or the PS3 is superior. Most multiplatform devs say pretty much what the president of Silicon Knights said, even if he is 2nd party to MS. PS3 is king of FLOPS. 360 king of Integer calculations and with more RAM, and more general purpose processing power for things like physics, AI, etc.
epluribus @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:47PM
Oh, what the heck, let's add these from the original article:
"There is potentially more power in the PS 3, he acknowledged, but it is harder to tap."
"Dyack says that he believes that HDMI cable interfaces will make a difference in visual quality. That gives an edge to the PS 3."
So perhaps a more representative title would've read "Microsoft developer gives graphics, power edge to PS3".
See how fun it is to play with words?
BlindsideDork @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:51PM
I am sorry to tell you but Too Human will NEVER be released! It has been pushed back/delayed sinec PSX days! And after it's lack luster performance at E3...hahaha, wait another 10 years.
And Silicon has developed games for all these companies but only are doing MS games now.
USP45 @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:57PM
LaughingTarget
And the xbox 360 is the oakland raiders.
The Intangible Fact @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:02PM
@ Laughing Target
Good Post
epluribus @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:57PM
"but the rest of the machine is inferior to the 360"
Great. Here we go again. Keep saying it, and that must make it so. It seems that a certain class of people are forced to make this charge, because it's getting increasingly difficult not to admit the areas in which the PS3 technology is superior. So the last recourse is to create statements like that above from nothing. I would say "please provide one clear example", but I know this inevitably leads to some false claim that takes hundreds of words to shoot down.
We've already seen repeated in this very thread the false claim that the 360 has "more memory". Aside from the FACT that each system has 512 MB, no one ever wishes to acknowledge that the additional 256 KB of private memory for each SPE in the Cell has the potential to make a huge difference in how much developers will be able to get out of the system.
Jake @ Nov 2nd 2006 1:58PM
Some of you apparently need this article brought way down to your comprehension level. I'll do my best.
This is the paragraph that has people here confused:
"His original interview notes said this: "I'm developing games on dated technology that don't look as good as my competitor's box," but fortunately his publicist had him change it at the last minute (that was close). All joking aside, we can respect bossman Denis Dyack's partial opinion. But the real point is it doesn't even matter."
If you think that someone would say that their system is "dated and don't look as good as competitor's box", but had their publicist change it at the last second, you are a gullible idiot. Plain and simple. Blake, knowing his average reader has no common sense or street smarts, even says it is a joke IN THE NEXT SENTENCE.
And the last comment that the real point is that it doesn't matter does not refer to system power not mattering. It refers to the fact that a second party developer tooting the horn of his system does not matter. It is like if Ken Kutagari says the PS3 is better than 360 overall. That comment doesn't matter.
Joystiq did nothing wrong with this article. They reported fact and tried to add some humor at the end. It is not their fault if readers can't understand sarcasm or think for themselves to any level. I mean, I understand many of you are 10 years old, but jeez. Whenever you read something that is "news-ish", you need to be constantly thinking for yourself, reading between the lines, and assessing its potential for being BS, true, sarcastic, misleading, etc. It is actually your civic duty to do so and vote and/or participate in important discussions with your own voice.
Common sense is not so common.
screw ea @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:04PM
This post is not quite having the effect Joystiq probably intended, its refreshing to see the responses mostly questioning the topic rather than fighting over which console is more powerful.
J.Goodwin @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:09PM
Because the fact that Silicon Knights is working on a cross-platform title for SEGA that will be on both 360 and PS3 and is slated for 2007 ensures that the company and it's employees have no knowledge whatsoever about developing on both platforms.
Blizz4l9 @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:16PM
funny thing is, that both systems are about equally powerfull but PS3 is much more expensive and much more difficult to develop for with its 7 SPE's
Marty @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:23PM
@epluribus
"Aside from the FACT that each system has 512 MB"
The PS3 only has 256Mb of memory, go visit their site and see for yourself. Being a computer graphics guy, I know that this will severely limit the "next-gen" potential for graphical effects, since 256Mb of video memory is really a "current-gen" thing, so far as computers are concerned.
We've yet to see if the Cell Processor will be more powerful than the 360's configuration, but I have a feeling that the triple CPU 360 will be hard to topple.
Wild Homes @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:40PM
nice to see the reading comprehension all-stars in here. good job, you thundermensches.
oh and Marty, sorry to rain on your computer-graphics-guy credentials, but the PS3 does boast 512mb ram. it is simply divided between the processor and the GPU, whereas ATI's xenon chipset has 512mb just for the GPU to horde. Phil Harrison, who I understand may lack your computer-graphics know-how, has stated in interviews that the processor's ram can be leaned on by the GPU when needed.
PS Blake, you might want to include comprehension cheat sheets for your audience, so they'll understand when you make a joke. also, to the fourth grade students in the thread, the post is saying Dyack's fairly partisan comments don't matter, and is not saying that the obvious graphical prowess of the PS3 is a non-issue.
PPS LaughingTarget, I was with your football analogy until you used 'receiving squad'... the Arizona's got Boldin and Fitzgerald at the corners and James catching passes out of the backfield. you should have picked Tennessee.
Sid @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:40PM
Come on Joystiq, get 2 things straight:
1) Silicon Knights might be producing for the 360 now, but they have produced for other platforms too in the past.
2) Don't just add joking quotes afterwards without making it amply clear that it is a joke. I know you said 'all joking aside' but apaprently that wasn't clear enough for some readers!
HoodOrnament @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:46PM
Well, the PS3 does actually have 512MB of memory but it is split up. The processor gets 256 and video gets 256 which limits the use to just that much. In the Xbox360 all the memory is unified meaning that if one part, the processor, or the graphics needed to use more memory it has flexibility.
The comment that each core of the cell has 256KB of available memory means nothing, considering every single processor has some form of a cache memory. In your computer there are 2-3 different levels of cache memory, and in the Xbox360 has 1,024kb...
There are of course the bandwidth bottlenecks that the PS3 has, and if you cant see that then dont even try to compare a video game console, ever again.
Not to mention everybody needs to remember the cell can only utilize 6 SPEs, not 7, as one SPE is dedicated to the running of the dashboard. So the cell starts with 8, one is disabled leaving them with 7, and then out of those one is dedicated to the dashboard.
Scott Krueger @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:47PM
XBox & PS2 were Equal.
But the XBox typically looked just slightly better.
Now the reverse will be true. PS3 will look slightly better. Even Oblivion is going to have very mild Graphical upgrades between foreground and background textures.
The difference is this:
PS3 $499 Online is Free.
360 w/HardDrive $399 + XBox Live $49/year.
After two years the 360 will be costing you more.
Next difference is:
PS3 is 99% Backwards compatible.
360 is 25% Backwards compatible.
It cost me $100 to get my XBox1 saves over to my 360!
Plus alot of my games are still not compatible.
The PS2 Memory card adapter is $15.
In a few weeks I will own both PS3 and 360, but I am leaning my library to the PS3 side, because when the next next-gen rolls around I do not want to get pimped by Microsofts inability to make a system backwards compatible.
Phranctoast @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:50PM
So laughing targets football knowledge is on par with Marty's computer graphics knowlege.
Joe smith @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:52PM
Actually @epluribus - the Sony system has 512 MB RAM, but it is split into standard RAM (256) and VRAM (256). This has some advantages and disadvantages and is overall less flexible than the Xbox 360s 512MB of unified RAM.
Every developer questioned on this has said form day one that the two systems are virtually identical in horsepower. The power argument is meaningless this time around. It's all about who has the best content. And given the cost of making games, the only poeple doing exclusives this time will be first party and companies being paid a boatload of $$ to do so. Cross platform games will be pretty much identical and will be by far the largest part of the market. Given that, it comes down to price and other features & benfits.
Blizz4l9 @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:56PM
@scott krugar, the PS2 and Xbox are not equal, the PS2 was by far inferior to both Xbox and Gamecube specwise.
Robotic House Plant @ Nov 2nd 2006 3:00PM
The reason why Silicon Knights is both a second party and a multiplatform developer is because they've created content for all platforms, but they're currently a 2nd party developer to Microsoft. Prior to that arrangement, they were a 2nd party developer to Nintendo.
In addition to games for Microsoft and Nintendo, they've also made games for the Playstation and PC.
HoodOrnament @ Nov 2nd 2006 3:12PM
Alright, I am sick of all these comments about how xbox live will make the xbox cost so much more than the PS3, first off it is an online service that should be the industry standard, you cant get anything better than XBL without being on a PC. Second off, the PS3 will cost you more in the long run, as the PS3 uses 380 watts of electricity and since it needs to be almost always on so its aware of being updated runs a lot more than the 360, which uses 160 watts of power. Therefore running your PS3 will push its cost to be greater than running the Xbox 360. No before everyone goes off spouting about how much the 360 is with xbox-live think about how much your energy bill is going to increase with a 380watt device compared to a 160watt device.
Phranctoast @ Nov 2nd 2006 3:16PM
it doesnt run at 380watt continuously!!!!!!
whereever you found the info on the power consumption.........keep reading....
m3mnoch @ Nov 2nd 2006 3:30PM
silicon knights is, in fact, a multiplatform developer. from their site:
"Silicon Knights® was incorporated in July, 1992. Our first games were real-time strategy/action hybrids for the PC, Amiga and Atari. During the final stages of development of our last PC game, Dark Legions(tm) (1994), we found our calling writing stories and the creation of backgrounds for characters.
Since then, we have focused on developing new ways to make non-linear content in games. This resulted in our first action adventure game, Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain(tm) (1996) for the Sony PlayStation. In 2000, Silicon Knights® became an exclusive second party developer for Nintendo during which time we created the critically acclaimed, Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem(tm) (2002). Later with Nintendo and Konami, Silicon Knights® created Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes(tm) (2004).
Most recently, Silicon Knights® broke away from exclusivity with Nintendo and are now working with Microsoft® on the Too Human(TM) Trilogy for the Xbox 360 and Sega® on an unannounced project."
1) that project with sega is for the ps3 also.
2) just because they wanted to make a next-gen game when there was only one console available doesn't quite qualify them as "second party" -- which, by the way, isn't even really a term.
if you want to read about the hardware differences, i can recommend the very unbiased anandtech article:
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2453&p=3
and, the tard that thinks the ps2 and original xbox were evenly matched: huh?
you said it yourself: "But the XBox typically looked just slightly better." well. and there's the fact that the xbox is indisputably remarked as the beefier system by -- every. professional. alive.
"Now the reverse will be true."
yeah. totally. resistance looks awesome compared to gears of war -- not.
not to burst any sony fan's bubble, but, when the 360 can use 360 (pun intended) mb of ram to hold more detailed textures -- along with free anti-aliasing -- how exactly is the ps3 going to "look better?"
it's an absolute, undeniable, set-in-stone fact that, because of the ram differences, the 360 is capable of higher resolution (aka more detailed) textures (normal mapping included) -- period.
you're not paying $600 for the cell or rsx or even games. you're paying $600 to help sony sell movies.
m3mnoch.
Scott Krueger @ Nov 2nd 2006 3:37PM
I owned a PS2 and a XBox.
The XBox games only looked marginally better, I dont care what the spec says, I am going by my eyes.
HoodOrnament
360 is 160 watts Without a Harddrive!
XBox Live is not that great.
Online gaming is Online gaming. I use XBox Live, it works, what is so great about it?
PS3 Online service you cannot judge till you try it.
My 360 Bill looks like this.
$399 360
$ 99 Live $49 Every Year (Year 2 in November)
$199 HD-DVD
$100 XBox1 Gamesaves Xfer (XSATA + Memory Cards.)
-----------------------------
$797 Thats $800 Total
PS3 Base model is $499
The PS3 Premium is $599 ($600) but that comes with built in wireless and a 60Gig HardDrive. Memory Adapter only $15.
Xbox360 Wireless adapter is another $99. Wow... Now we are getting damn close to $900 and I only have a 20 Gig HardDrive that is always getting too full.
Don't tell me who is more expensive, I paid the Price for my 360. I am not a Sony Fanboy, I am just stating a fact that my 360 is costing me more than my PS3 will.
Aex @ Nov 2nd 2006 3:41PM
I don't know about you memnoch, but I'm paying $500 to help Sony sell movies AND games. On the Other hand I'll be paying $400 + live gold to help MS sell games. I don't think I'll be paying $250 to help Nintendo screw me tho.
Inferno @ Nov 2nd 2006 3:41PM
@ epluribus
You wanted links to prove the memory differences, here you go.
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-2.ars/7
It is a huge article, but just read the conclusion. RAM aside, the PS3 onlyl has cache for its main processing core, the SPEs have no cache at all. That severely limits their capabilities. The 360 has a slight advantage that it has 3 cores each with a cache to split up any branch intensive coding applications. There is another article which talks about procedural synthesis, you should read. Again long, but will be amazing if it is ever used. Will make environments like Oblivion's look like something out of South Park. Ok, maybe not, but will make them more diverse and easier to create more cheaply.
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-1.ars
Silent Scream @ Nov 2nd 2006 3:45PM
- Blake Snow
Fortunately for you, sir, you write for a blogging site. I say fortunately because, if you were writing for any sort of actual news site, etc. , you wouldn't have the fact that the site is a blog to use as your shield with which to defend your very poor journalism.
Step 1: Make a VERY misleading headline. Where have we seen this before? Ah yes, the "Big News about next-gen systems!" bit by that kid who doesn't work for joystiq anymore. Might want to rethink what you're saying next time....
Step 2: Start your article with, "Oh, this is rich." to implicate your bias from the beginning. Does someone have a PS3 reserve? Seriously, as a non-biased reader, I tuned you out at that point and simply skimmed your article, doing my best to avoid any comments from you as it is impossible to respect someone so blatantly sarcastic. As others have said, only skilled writers can actually get away with using sarcasm in print. You, sir, are hardly "skilled."
Step 3: Pull something out of your...shall we say...ear...and put it in quotations so as to thoroughly confuse readers who may not be giving the article their undivided attention and thus start an insult battle amongst fans of the various consoles in order to score yourself a better number of comments. It's too bad that most of the comments left here are from people who didn't like your article or the way you worded it. I, for one, found it to be very uniformative and totally useless when it comes to making informed decisions about the next-gen systems.
Step 4: Reiterate your bias by closing your piece with, "But the real point is it doesn't even matter." Well, with that, you are actually correct...assuming you are talking about anything that you said in this poorly written piece. If you don't care about what you are blogging about, why are you bothering to interview/talk to/write about anyone or anything?
I hate to break apart a post like this, but it really annoys me because, as a video game blog, people are supposed to be able to come to Joystiq and receive the latest and greatest news in the gaming industry. To read a piece that is poorly done, and then at the end have the whole article dismissed by the "author", and I use that term so loosely I almost don't want to use it at all, as "not mattering" is a slap in the face to your readers. Thanks for wasting our time and yours, and here's hoping you learn something from the feedback you're receiving and learn to write something that doesn't hurt your readers' eyes to read.
My $.02, you know it's true, take my star if you want it.