Metareview - Neverwinter Nights 2 [Update 1]
by Alan Rose 
{ Nov 3rd 2006 at 12:20PM }
Obsidian Entertainment and dungeon masters the world over can breathe a collective sigh of relief now that the scores for Neverwinter Nights 2 are in. The single player campaign has been well received by the gaming press, and the revamped toolset is expected to afford NWN2 a shelf life comparable to its predecessor. However, not all is well in the Forgotten Realms. The 1UP reviewer seems to have overlooked the fact that Oblivion and NWN represent different styles of roleplaying. Bethesda emphasizes aesthetic presentation and open-ended adventuring, while BioWare and Obsidian have focused on a tighter combat system (hence the rules) and an extendable architecture befitting of the classic Dungeons & Dragons experience. Keeping this in mind, both franchises excel at what they were designed for.
- GameDaily (100/100) cites several improvements over the original NWN: "There are plenty of things about NWN2 that are different from its precursor. Better graphics, a much more robust and option-filled character creation process, plus deeper plotlines, with more twists and better villains help add to an already stellar feature list. Neverwinter Nights 2 is truly one of the most epic adventures found on a PC, and it should be purchased without hesitation."
- GameSpot (86/100) considers NWN2 the most authentic D&D experience to date: "If you're willing to look past a few relatively minor technical issues, you'll have a great time exploring the world of NWN2. The excellent story, characters, and quests will appeal to your sense of adventure without getting overly convoluted. When you factor in the multiplayer and the editing tools, you'll find that NWN2 is a fantastic value and a thoroughly enjoyable game."
- 1UP (50/100) fired a 3d6 Melf's Acid Arrow right at the heart of the D&D community: "With all the added rule-shuffling, NWN2 seems like it's working twice as hard to accomplish half as much. Worse -- and blame this on games like Oblivion -- NWN2's levels feel pint-sized. As if the pencil and paper 'module' approach were a virtue that computers -- by now demonstrably capable of simulating entire worlds with considerably more depth -- should emulate."
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Lorben @ Nov 3rd 2006 12:25PM
For the first time my old GeForce 4200 can't keep up. Looks like I'll be passing on this game.
VampireHunter Z @ Nov 3rd 2006 12:27PM
Never played NWN or know much about the game. But this is one of the reasons I stopped visiting 1up for their continued crap. There is no way one review can be 100% and 1up's review is 50%.
Kanadwen @ Nov 3rd 2006 12:32PM
NWN should never be compared to Oblivion, ever. IMO, I think Oblivion is more of a simulation of a RPG, more than an actual experience. I could never get into ANY of the Elder Scroll games, never. I'm not saying NWN is better than Oblivion, Oblivion is a good game, but just not my taste, but it seems like 1UP is speaking for everybody, and I don't like that. I'm not sticking up for NWN just becuase I like D&D, which I actually DISLIKE, I'm sticking up for it because it's FUN! BTW, I'm a GURPS player, so that'll tell you something! :)
Chachi @ Nov 3rd 2006 12:34PM
Have you actually read 1up's review on this? It appears to be written by a four-year-old, or at the very least someone with a very poor grasp on English. It's very hard to take serious a review that's barely comprehensible at best.
Mullinator @ Nov 3rd 2006 12:36PM
Well 100% is too high from what I have read from ALL other reviews I have seen so far. 50% however is also WAY too low. Not sure what is going on between those two but the average for this game seems to be in the mid 80's range.
Although the negatives are drastically different from who you talk to. Gamespots biggest problem with the game seems to be it's graphics while the problem most others have is that the pathfinding and controll system have not changed since the first game.
shase @ Nov 3rd 2006 12:41PM
I am playing the game and so far i dont like the character models and I miss those "portraits" from NWN1. I liked those art styles more than NWN2.
Jsunu @ Nov 3rd 2006 12:42PM
Wow the 1up review didn't even review the game. That is probably THE worst review ever. It was just an rambling of someone's opinion.
Sean @ Nov 3rd 2006 12:44PM
The game is fantastic! I'm loving it. The plotline is good, the NPCs are witty.
The biggest problem is it is CHUGGING on my machine. Granted, I don't have the best computer out there by a long shot, but its running slower than Oblivion did, and I haven't been able to NOT play a game I wanted.
P4D 805 @2.83Ghz (sucks but was $90)
GeForce 6200TC 256MB
1Gig Ram
By reading the forums, it looks like people with even more powerful machines are having problems. I'm hoping for a performance patch a la Civ4
Recongoddess @ Nov 3rd 2006 12:46PM
I'm a player and lover of both games.. and I can say from experience that there is no way the 2 can be compared.. and I agree that NWN2 isn't 100.. scale of 1 to 10, I would say a '9'... but that's just my opinion
Agent MOO @ Nov 3rd 2006 12:46PM
1-UP has been added to my list of reviewers to ignore. I'm not a NWN fan, but this guy is clearly not doing his job by slamming this game on D&D fanboyism.
WizarDru @ Nov 3rd 2006 12:53PM
Sadly, the first thing I thought was: "Dude, Melf's Acid Arrow only does 2d4 damage!"
http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsAtoB.html#acid-arrow
shase @ Nov 3rd 2006 1:43PM
i have p4 3ghz. 1 gig ram, ati xpro 850 256meg and displayed at 1280X1024 and have no lagging problems thus far. maybe try closing other programs?
J.Goodwin @ Nov 3rd 2006 1:12PM
The 1up review is from Games for Windows magazine. Their current rating system uses 1 to 10, but has 5 as the "average" grade. A 5 from GFW is equivalent to a 7 from other sites.
madprofessor @ Nov 3rd 2006 1:22PM
at least it shows what's Games For Windows: The Official Magazine worth of
James @ Nov 6th 2006 2:39PM
100% is too high and 50% is laughable. I think Gamespot has it almost dead on except for the fact that the technical issues aren't that minor. I would call the fact that most users with even high end systems can't get this game running acceptably on max levels. I would say that this glaring and almost blinding fault with the engine is a rather big issue and would cause me to maybe even lower the review to high 70's or put it off till it's patched... you know, like Penny Arcade waited to give WoW it's game of the year award.
obi-wan @ Nov 3rd 2006 1:37PM
Actually, Melf's acid arrow does do 3d6 damage. If you go to the NWN Vault's Spells section, it's there. :)
Amos @ Nov 3rd 2006 1:57PM
IS it just me, or is 1-up always trying to be artificially edgy and usually end up retardedly annoying these days? And then of course there's the others sites who have nothing to say but compliments...gah.
dubz @ Nov 3rd 2006 2:01PM
I've found that the best way to get the most accurate review these days is to take the average of a 1up and an IGN review. Has IGN ever rated a AAA game below 90?
typoink @ Nov 3rd 2006 2:55PM
I think the most interesting thing about NWN2 are the conversations you get into with the party members. Sure, it's just kinda filler, but it makes your party feel more like people and less like AI bots.
There's definitely negatives, though:
The graphics are medium, the pathfinding is lame, the game's performance is is lousy, the AI is weak, and the inventory is a nightmare.
But, honestly, i can overlook all that. It's a game that really FEELS like a D&D adventure, for good and bad. The characters are all wonderfully cliche, and the plot is pretty run-of-the-mill -- but that's part of the charm.
JFink @ Nov 3rd 2006 2:11PM
I own the game and I have to say I think the Gamespot review is pretty right on. It has some problems (camera...) but overall the game is fun. The 1up.com review seemed like he hated it for being D&D and wanted it to be Oblivion.
Mort85 @ Nov 3rd 2006 7:42PM
you stopped posting the cumulative average so far...i am sad now.
Markster @ Nov 3rd 2006 2:33PM
Largest standard deviation in game reviews, ever?
Scooby Doo @ Nov 3rd 2006 2:35PM
I was one of the lucky ones who ordered from Atari direct and got the game on the 30th. I think the graphics are a noted improvement, but they tripped up on a number of aspects about the game, especially for those of us that played a lot of NWN 1.
I had to FORCE myself to play it until I became comfortable with the controls and camera, and I do mean force. I tried for two days straight to get used to the game, but it wasn't until last night that I finally felt like it wasn't pulling teeth. The Driving Mode is just horrid so I've had to switch to point-and-click. I don't like it, but eventually you get used to it a little. The camera is absolutely atrocious though. Overall, I'd give the game about a 7 to 7.5, but you have to look at the whole package.
john @ Nov 3rd 2006 2:37PM
another lame 1up review. i stopped checking them after their kameo review from last year. when readers complained about the reviewer, their comments were removed. the score they have up right now is not the original one, but the review is still there:
http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3145712
nyc @ Nov 3rd 2006 2:50PM
The 1up review is written by a dumb fuck.
Hub @ Nov 3rd 2006 3:13PM
The camera problem is huge for me. There is no need to reinvent the wheel here. There's a very simple convention for camera control (click and drag), and it's inexcusable for them to have ignored such a fundamental thing. I've given up in frustration 2 nights in a row.
Kaikara @ Nov 3rd 2006 3:34PM
I find it ironic that 'Games for Windows' covergame is the new Bioware game (developers of first NWN) and they give NWN 2 such a poor review (which it does not deserve). For shame!
sol.. @ Nov 4th 2006 10:13AM
1up has been totally emo lately. Anything everybody likes they are like OMG ITZ DEH SUX0RZ. The writing on that site (news included) has strayed so far off of journalism it's sad.
SteveO @ Nov 3rd 2006 4:07PM
I just clicked on the 1UP review link... seems like the review was pulled?!?
Sidebuster @ Nov 3rd 2006 4:38PM
Will all the comments about performance, camera, control issues; I begin to wonder if 1up's review was really that bad (Can't access it, getting an error on the site).
Silby @ Nov 6th 2006 9:50PM
Camera problems: Have you tried pressing the middle mouse button/wheel down and rotate? Works great for me?
Dolar @ Nov 3rd 2006 5:45PM
The 1up review is insane. I played the first NWN longer then I care to admit. While 2 has some issues with the DM client and the toolset, there things that can be patched. The single player campaign is 100 times better then NWN1.
The game looks wonderful, the spell effects are done perfectly. The guy at 1up should be fired.
Dolar @ Nov 3rd 2006 5:50PM
Just to confirm, it does look like there review has been taken down.
SteveO @ Nov 3rd 2006 6:20PM
1UP admits making a mistake and is having the game reviewed again:
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3154916
Mats @ Nov 3rd 2006 6:22PM
Oh, the problems with metacritic.
Gamedaily did not give it 100 points out of 100, it gave it 5 out of 5 stars.
Fandel @ Nov 3rd 2006 6:29PM
If you guys are interested. Here is a what GFW Editor in Chief, Jeff Green has to say about the whole ordeal.
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=7589456&publicUserId=5380367
Shannon @ Nov 3rd 2006 6:32PM
That's it, that 1up guy loses "-" key privileges.
Spade135 @ Nov 6th 2006 8:29AM
I loved the first and loated the second. Camera was inexcusably bad, clunky engine and obstructive interface ruined this would be classic for me. Hower, I admit that I did enjoy the character customization and story until i couldn't deal with the techincal issues any further. 7.5 out of 10 for me.
Runesong @ Nov 6th 2006 11:31PM
In spite of the faults that it does have, I've still really enjoyed NWN2. It seems to me to be the kind of game that gives you back what you put into it, which has always been the charm of DND. If you don't want to have fun with it (or if you expect it to force "fun" down your throat with edgy spectacle and visceral shock) then you simply won't enjoy it. Move on, and leave this toy to the people who know how to play with it.
As for the writing itself, I'm wondering if the author even tried. The language was confusing and haphazard, the tone and transitions were inconsistent, the points were random and ill-supported, and the entire review seemed to focus on what the game was not, rather than what it was. The man is certainly entitled to his opinion, but game reviews, especially those intended for print publication, need to be more than raw opinion. At least, they need to be if the sites and publications who run them want to keep their credibility. Not to mention, it's impossible to keep the respect of a fan community if you don't respect them in turn. The base of DND-aficionado gamers out there is too big for any kind of gaming publication to ignore.
Speaking of which, to those who would harp on the DND fans and NWN fans for being out of touch with the rest of the gamer circle, I suggest turning that around. Why should any other gamer belittle an effort made to keep up with and please the DND set? Presenting an unflattering and dismissive opinion of that fanset just because you don't like their new toy betrays an ignorance of what's actually going on in -that- game culture. That isn't a good position for a representative writer to be in.
bouchert @ Nov 7th 2006 4:36AM
There is definitely something wrong with the performance in NWN2 on certain high-end systems. People with top-end Core 2 Duos and GeForce 7xxx cards are getting atrocious frame rates (less than 20FPS, even with all settings at low, and single-digit FPS with even a few settings turned up), while people with far "inferior" systems are getting perfectly acceptable performance, even with almost everything turned up. Sounds to be a problem with dual-core, 64-bit, and/or GeForce systems, though possibly a few people with ATI cards and single-core CPUs are experiencing the problem as well. Add to this the copy protection failing to verify the DVD in my Sony DVD-RW drive (another problem a number of other people have reported) and 50/100 would be a kind score on my part, until such time as they fix their game.
Mareus @ Nov 21st 2006 10:38AM
I really dont see how ANY seroius reviewer could writte such crap as the guy from 1 UP. Neverwinter Nights 2 is not a game without flaws, it certanly has some technical issues and the camera is not perfect but those are minor problems that will be fixed in time with patches. The days when games were published all polished and shiny are long gone. All games today need patching for crying out loud. As for the gaming experience so far, i can only say it was most pleasing. Excellent story, great plot, great combat, strategy, many options and choices, very interesting characters, great voices, humor... the game has it all. It really brings back the good old days when graphic wasnt so important as today. NWN 2 reminds me alot on Baldurs Gate series and every serious reviewer will tell you Baldurs Gate is one of the best RPGS if not the best RPG ever created. NWN 2 should be compared with Baldurs Gate and not with Oblivion, which is completly different game(BTW i think they really ruined Elder Scrolls with Oblivion). As for the things that could have been done better - camera really isnt such a huge problem because it just needs some time getting used to. Graphic was never too important to me, but it still looks great. AI could have been done better but you can actualy turn it off or even set it to any way to suit your playing style, so thats not such a HUGE problem. Only real problems in my oppinion are computer requirements which dont pay off and the pathfinding of characters. NWN 2 is one of those games i ve been waiting for a loooooong time and unlike most of them it didnt dissapoint me one bit. Its a lot like Baldurs Gate, in some things even better, but it still needs some polishing to become number 1 RPG for me. Great work OBSIDIAN :) Thank you for this wonderful game and please keep them making so good.
Mareus @ Nov 21st 2006 10:38AM
Great game. Thank you Obsidian for a wonderful game that i can only compare with Baldurs Gate:) Please keep them making so good.
Scott @ Nov 22nd 2006 12:55AM
This game is buggier than windows and is for many players completely unplayable. I suggest waiting 6 months until Obsidian and Atari decide they want to get together to fix the security issues (Game won't authenticate, even with a disc in the drive) and get some of the video lag taken care of. The Graphics are about two years out of date and for some reason on my three month old $5000 computer I'm getting between 3 and 5 fps.
Robert Hamilton @ Dec 4th 2006 12:15PM
NWN2 is a disaster! I waited for ever to receive this game, and when it arrived to me in ITaly, it was full of problems. I am a World of Warcaft player. I wanted something to take me away from the online play of WOW. This game runs as slow as snails, I have a Top of the line Alien PC with a Nivadia Card and a Radion 9800 on back up. I am still getting super lag and choppy game play. The grass blowing in the game looks choppy. I have about a 2 second delay in my actions on this game. I a quite suprised this game was brought out in this fashion. Even WOW has enough sense to delay the game to fix major engine issues. This game will need a serious patch to fix these problems. It also crashed me and my bosses pc when we downloaded. This game has a lot of problems, I don't understand why every one is bashing 1up for telling the truth! This game is a ship wreck with the engine in this fashion. Maybe he used words that many didn't understand, but when I purchase a game, I would like to know that I can play the game if my computer meets all the requirements. Your product represents you. Every one is bashing 1up for being the only one willing to give an accuarte account of the games performance.
Nightmare @ Dec 10th 2006 9:23AM
I think NWN 2 is great. Sure, its kinda buggy, but which game is all polished up when it comes out nowadays?
I dont understand people that say the game is laggy for them even on their "oh-so-good" computers, im running a Celeron 2,2 ghz with a Radeon 9600 and 512 MBs of RAM and with a little tweaking and playing around, i can play the game normaly on low settings.
The story is great and i was pulled into it in a matter of minutes. The camera can quite ruin the experience - at start, i managed to get used to it in a hour or two...
All in all, i think that the game is really good, it has technical issues, but they will be fixed in the updates i think (hope). My rating would go around 80-90 out of 100.
Jon The Horrible @ Dec 15th 2006 9:15AM
Yeh man, I agree, I like the game and the storyline is cool. A lot of ways dialodues you can take affect your party's evolution. But I have a cool PC too and it runs like a dog for me also. I iknow it's not my settings being too high or anything because the game itself takes about 5 minutes to just start up! And thats the electronic distribution version! I enjoyed it while I had the patience but won't even bother double clicking it until a decent patch comes out! I'm just sick of trying to load it, waiting, waiting some more, then waiting that bit more and going into task manager to quit it and get on with some more BF2.
I can understand games needing patches as the end user is the best tester after all, but at least wait until the game is actually playable to the point of getting to a menu in less than say, a minute? I think that's fair. The reason it is releases like that is because so many companies are just getting away with releasing under finished games and getting their profits in nice and early, from us with no legal recompense. Just because they can and/or they are scared that if they spend too much time on perfecting their product, its release date might see them with some competition.
It's cowardly, greedy and just unfair. Games aren't cheap, and if we knew it was running like this, we could have enjoyed a few nights out and bought it when it was ready instead.
Just a thought but if I came and took all their money, just before Christmas, and didnt give them what they wanted in return, I'm sure they'd be pretty pissed off too.
Jon The Horrible @ Dec 15th 2006 11:29AM
Yeh man, I agree, I like the game and the storyline is cool. A lot of ways dialodues you can take affect your party's evolution. But I have a cool PC too and it runs like a dog for me also. I iknow it's not my settings being too high or anything because the game itself takes about 5 minutes to just start up! And thats the electronic distribution version! I enjoyed it while I had the patience but won't even bother double clicking it until a decent patch comes out! I'm just sick of trying to load it, waiting, waiting some more, then waiting that bit more and going into task manager to quit it and get on with some more BF2.
I can understand games needing patches as the end user is the best tester after all, but at least wait until the game is actually playable to the point of getting to a menu in less than say, a minute? I think that's fair. The reason it is releases like that is because so many companies are just getting away with releasing under finished games and getting their profits in nice and early, from us with no legal recompense. Just because they can and/or they are scared that if they spend too much time on perfecting their product, its release date might see them with some competition.
It's cowardly, greedy and just unfair. Games aren't cheap, and if we knew it was running like this, we could have enjoyed a few nights out and bought it when it was ready instead.
Just a thought but if I came and took all their money, just before Christmas, and didnt give them what they wanted in return, I'm sure they'd be pretty p'd off too.
D.O.A @ Dec 18th 2006 11:27AM
I saw a prob with the sleep effects. When a character drops from a sleep spell and you coup de grace him, he will stand up and fade away. Anyone have similar problems?
B.T.W - I have a x1950, Dual Core E6600, 1g RAM and it lags to death in most areas.
Brien Hemans @ Dec 21st 2006 9:36AM
I give this game a 87.9% but here me out...
I'm a huge fan of the D&D games esp. Baldur's Gate series as my coup de gras. I even read D&D books (along with Dragon Lance titiles). But I was looking forward to NWN2 and was only hesitating to buy the game because of these lax reviews until I saw it on sale for $25 online @ Best Buy. But I'm now in Act2 and I love it. For those who say that the controls are basically the same, well its NWN's control system. Just like Baldur's and Icewind. Their controls were the same in their sequels. It was xpected actually and would be horrible if they dramatically changed it.
To contradict 1UP, I agree that levels are too small too and the games does play a bit faster than its predeccessor, but Obisidian just made all the things that would take forever in NWN just quicker. And if they add a whole buch of Mods on to it which I have no doubt they will, then there's more fun. They should just stop whining like babies and sit down with tons of munchies and enjoy the game we fans have been waiting for.
Then for the portraits. Its better this way bcuz now they actually reflect what your character looks like including your armor. which i think is awesome. True, I do miss the small artwork but i do enjoy this more.
Overall, this game rocks as an RGP, story,gameplay, and graphics (altho i had to buy a new GPU card too. eh game was $25 so y not). I give this game a 87.9% I would give it more, but most people dont have the supported hardware to play the game (cant wait for Vista). and this review is coming from a 21 yr old who's been playing games since Pitfall. Ouch!
FUNNY @ Dec 30th 2006 11:17PM
This is the saddest moment in gaming history. My AMD Dual core 4800+ 2 gig ram, newest ati video card, cant handle a shitty looking game. I receive 5-10fps wowzer. I can play oblvion with half as much power as this crap. I have a solution on how to fix the problem. Uninstall NWN2, Return the game, never buy a game made by Atari again.