Awww...I suggested this article and didn't get the thanks. *sigh* Oh well...can't win them all.

And yes, Sony really is trying too hard to start something with Microsoft.

"PlayStation 3's content is designed for everyone to enjoy right out of the box, no matter which configuration you purchase..." Oh, really? And how is the average non-segragated consumer supposed to benefit from all of the PS3's True HD awesomeness when there is no component or HDMI cable included???? The hypocrisy continues.

JW

damn you M$, why do you keep copying $ony by doing things first?
dont you know sony has the god given right to steal from every other company and then claim it as their own

wow sony is so pathetic now.

but on topic, the top ps3 is 200 bones more, funny how they always get that wrong. stupid misleading chart anyone?

hey sony if your system is soooo much better why dont you damn show me?

Sony sucks

What in the hell is wrong with sony. Why can't they just shut up and make good features and good games. Sometime these multi-billion dollar companies act like a bunch of 9 year olds.

Minimum spend for HD gaming and tv/movies:
Sony - $499 (still havent seen any tv bluray discs though)
Microsoft - $399 (360 premium) if your not worried about looks you can buy a core and hack in a cheaper "internal hdd" to sit beside you 360 (the format still limits you to 20gb even if a bigger hdd is added

Sony's response simplified down to one word - "WAAAAAAHHH!"

There's nothing keeping Core owners from paying for a HDD so that they can download movies and TV shows.

I think the main concern should be about the limited HDD space for the 360. MS needs to support external HDDs or bring out larger HDDs if they really want this to be a success. 13GB (20GB - 7GB for caching and whatever else) just won't cut it in the long term.

rdj75

Probably because journalists constantly call for a response and if they don't get one they simply start publishing rumors or call the Company arrogant.

Bottom line: This isn't something that Microsoft announced first, they simply are offering something that Sony has already stated they will be offering in the future. On top of that, I doubt you'll ever see a Sony Picture (there are a ton of them or any Disney movies (apple/steve jobs)) on this service which makes it somewhat limited for future use.

I've got nothing against Microsoft, but every console will probably have a service similiar to this one and Sony is best positioned to offer the most music and movies since they have a substantial collection.

This sounds desperate.

Sony and MS had two different strategies. MS gives gamers an affordable way to enjoy their core GAME console without all the EXTRAS: movies, HDDVD, wireless controller, etc etc. I repeat: EXTRAS.

Sony on the otherhand forces gamers to get everything.

I hate the word bones. It is SO overused now. And besides, do you realize "$100 bones" translates to One hundred dollar bones. Don't use the dollar sign and bones together. In fact, just don't say bones. The $100 expresses the value by itself. You don't need an extra word after to look cool. It's lame. Eugh.

I am sure if Sony offered a $399 model it wouldn't have any memory function at all, and a $299 model would probably not even play games let alone have any option of memory.

The HD Movie and TV download generation doesn't start until Sony says so.

Gawd Sony you guys are idiots. First the Core owners have it better because now they can buy a 80GB HDD and not have a wasted 20GB sitting around. Secondly, what good is that 60GB PS3 going to do when it's filled up with GAME DATA because the BluRay drive is so slow!!!!

DBX00,

Its not about the money, its the principle. Try and understand that before your fanboy tendencies overwhelm your better judgement. If one of your main selling points, as a company, is the inclusion of True HD content and gaming, wouldn't it be logical to assume that they would provide the consumer with the means to view that content? You are so busy pushing that Sony bandwagon that you have lost focus on the whole point of the matter. Out of the box, will you be able to view 720p/1080i/1080p content? Yes or No? Case closed. There is no rebuttal. At least, no competent form of a rebuttal.

JW

When your 60Gb PS3 hard drive is full of games that you HAD to install to avoid 2+ minutes of load time per game, you'll be wondering where to store all those content downloads designed "for everyone." Sony is an idiot.

Well, really, who sticks to their core system without a harddrive? The only 'Choice' there was you could 'Choose' to get a Core 360 or not get one at all, since that was the only one left after all the foray at the stores, slim pickin's after the first few minutes of availability. In fact, Splinter Cell:DA had a sticker placed on it saying you need SOME sort of memory device to play the game, so already the 'storage is not necessary' mantra from Microsoft is eroding.

One cool thing with the Core system is the 'stairstepping' of your investment - you can buy the system one week, mow some lawns, deliver some papers, work at WalMart or Gamestop, whatever kids do these days and pick up a hard drive the next week... Or parents can buy-in at 299 'Dollar Bones' and let the kids pick up the rest on their own.

But still, shipping with no hard drive has always seemed like a step backwards to me - the original Xbox had one 3 years earlier.

This is hilarious. The writer doesn't even know the definition of segregate.

A. Hardrive- everyone has one. Just because one has greater capacity doesn't mean they are segregated. There's certainly a capacity gap, but zero segregation.
B. Additional Memory slots- key word being addtitional. At the bear minimum any PS3 user will have a memory slot. Again not segregation.
C. Wi-fi- Are people required to use Wi-Fi? They aren't? Until the time that people are required to use Wi-Fi this isn't an example of segregation either.

Just a terrible article. You'd think in the USA with an history of segregation that any person with a basic education would understand the difference between segregation and separation. This is particularily sad to read on Election Day.

So you Sony haters are now trying to spin something up about how a Xbox360 with a 20GB drive is _somehow_ immune from 'filling up with content' while a PS3 with a 60GB drive isn't?

Get a life, just the other night I sat through PS3 loading times for several games, and you know what haters? Not really that different from my 360's loading times - you played Splinter Cell lately? Or GRAW? Loading times are across the board.

Todd is apparently threatened with logic. Snow, perhaps if you found a celebrity to tell the Todds of the world to agree with you then you wouldn't have to deal with their naive rantings.

For Sony to whine about Microsoft excluding customers because one of their configurations, that consumers are free to choose, does not contain a harddrive? It doesn't take too much thinking to realize that upgrading a core system or buying the high end model is still cheaper than buying the low end PS3 (assuming we ignore the inevitable repair costs on the xbox) In other words, no one is any more excluded with an xbox than a PS3.

If we want to talk about exclusion perhaps we should mention the thousands of consumers who won't get a PS3 because they were "excluded" from the pathetically small number of units constructed or perhaps we should bring up Sony's history of breaking with standards to create their own proprietary things that are often inferior to the standards of the day?

My 360 is annoyingly close to full.



And can anyone tell me why Splinter Cell: Double Agent has so many damn loading screens during the menu system? Turn on the game, wait for loading. Select single player, wait for loading. Select game, wait for loading.


I can deal with select game, wait for loading, but loading between menus?



Die.

Oh yeah, those that are still complaining about the HDMI cable. Suck it up, they cost like $6 shipped online. They've given you the CHOICE to buy whatever cable you like to connect to the system unlike the expensive proprietary b/s that console makers have been pushing these days.

Broseph:

"You'd think in the USA with an history of segregation that any person with a basic education would understand the difference between segregation and separation. This is particularily sad to read on Election Day."

Segregation MEANS separation, retard. The fact that you don't find the separation particularly relevant doesn't matter.

Everyone

Both systems are upgradable, but the PS3 allows me to have the basic system and still take advantage of all the services available. The core users are essentially cut off from the marketplace which is becoming more and more integral part of the XBOX experience.

Secondly, just because the system is cheaper out the gate doesn't mean the COST OF OWNERSHIP is less expensive. Anyone that has owned cars for an extended period understands the concept. The PS3 allows consumers to purchase the $500 system and spend the extra $100 toward a 160GB hard drive and other third party accessories. Microsoft locks its consumers into the Microsoft world and charges whatever they feel like for upgrades. They may charge you less upfront, but IF you do decide to upgrade they'll make you pay. The key is that they're only developing services to entice you to upgrade instead of expanding services to ALL their customers. That's the KEY difference between the two companies.

JW

You can't argue both sides of the coin. Everyone talks about how nobody has high definition televisions and then demand that they include cables to support the minority group. I don't disagree that not including a high definition cable was purely a cost saving business decision, but with the current transition to HDMI only happening recently it makes sense that they not include the cable when you have a lot of the high definition televisions on the market only supporting component cables. However, why include component cables when these individuals are still in the minority.

Including or excluding certain cables will not in any way hinder someone from making their console purchase. Historically, people have always had to purchase enhanced cables for their system and they've always been more expensive then the generic cables that Sony is allowing you to use on the PS3. Therefore, I'm glad Sony went with the decision to use standard cables instead of a proprietary format and gave me the option to purchase them if I have the equipment to support the format instead of increasing the price for everyone even if they didn't use the cable.

It's also better to start a discussion with the understanding that their are always two sides to a coin. Statements like, "Case closed" make you sound more ignorant and closed minded which are typically the signs of what everyone refers to as "fanboys". Thanks.

"C. Wi-fi- Are people required to use Wi-Fi? They aren't? Until the time that people are required to use Wi-Fi this isn't an example of segregation either.

Just a terrible article. You'd think in the USA with an history of segregation that any person with a basic education would understand the difference between segregation and separation. This is particularily sad to read on Election Day. "

Obviously you don't understand sarcasm. The writer was criticizing Sony's use of the word segregation. And look at the response you gave to wi-fi. The same response can be given to what Sony is trying to claim. I hope you don't vote... seriously!

I, for one, Welcome our short load time, startup and play Wii overlords.

broseph, if this article is a bad example of segregation then so is Sony's original comments. Segregation means: to separate or set apart from others or from the main body or group; isolate. The main body or group are the ones who have the Premium 360 and who are going to have the 60 GB PS3, seems how those are the two SKU's that Sony and Microsoft manufacture more. Atleast Microsoft gives you the option of upgrading everything except the disk drive tray.

The bottom line of this article is to point out how Sony seems to be reaching. They want everybody to believe that the PS3 is the "Second Coming" and that the 360 isn't even in the same league, but when it all comes down to it, they're both more alike, then they are different.

@19 broseph
Personally I think your looking way into things, and maybe even trying to find something wrong with the journalism. Yes, maybe he wasn't 100% accurate with his defination, but the point is still there and the story still gets to you.

Anyways, Its mostly a sarcastic quote. Notice how it's "segregates".. In quotes. He was trying to say Sony is a little hypocritical of them when they themselves have 2 differenst systems for user/consumer choice.

@12 DBX00
That would be all fine and dandy if Sony wasn't pushing a new format of HD DVD and relying on "True HD". If you are pushing something, and making people pay almost 2x more than the other systems for the "Newest and Greatest of 'Next-Gen' Technology".. Then shouldnt they push the greatest format cable too?

Whats funny is your probably one of the people who bitched about Wii component cables not coming with the Wii. Yet, you're telling people they have to order it, even for a meesly $6. Don't you think thats kind of hypocritical?

Sony is in this deep, dark place where they feel bashing the competitor will bring hope to their sorry eyes. Honestly, Sony needs a reality check.

Robot Chicken is a show that is put together by Sony. But where it gets publish, I think, is up to Cartoon Network.

No matter what...You have to give Microsoft credit for putting this together like they did. I would imagine NBC and ABC perhaps jumping on if all goes well. I would be doing it for the movies(but I will be getting the HD DVD...by choice), and not the shows because I have ON DEMAND and a DVR. It's great for the people who love these shows but don't have these amenities(sp?).

Plain and simple....Sony talked before they thought. They do it WAAAAAYYYYYY too much. Just look at the launch qauntities dwindle.

Wow, this "article" sounds like a throwback to the Summa days of Joystiq.

While I'm not buying a PS3 for a myriad of reasons (Lik Sang, trojan horsing, rootkit and lousy PS2 console quality chief among them), this latest pissing contest isn't one of them.

Consider:

1) Sony has explicitly stated that you could put in any hard drive you want at any time. Your 20GB can become 350 in a flash, without any propretary casings that drive up the cost.

2) Wi-Fi can be added through one of the USB ports. The 360 doesn't have Wi-Fi out of the box either; I had to buy an adaptor to get that.

3) USB 9-in-1 - or higher - card readers are dirt cheap, usually under $30 femurs (grammar check, please). Having one built in isn't that big a deal. Again, the 360 doesn't have it, and nobody's complaining.

From ripping me off and copying me (and ignoring me when I tried to contact you about it) to this dreck is showing me that Joystiq isn't doing gamers any favours. Go ahead and wipe my stars, they aren't worth the pixels they're displayed on.

...and this is why I won't be purchasing a PS3 for a very long time. At this point its out of principle, amongst other things. Why would I reward Sony with my hard-earned cash when its treating us, the gamers that make Sony's gaming division its only profitable market right now, like naive shitfaces? No thanks. Pass.

"Atleast Microsoft gives you the option of upgrading everything except the disk drive tray."
And Sony doesn't? The HDD can be upgraded from 20gb to 60gb (and upwards, you can't so far with the 360). WiFi can be added.

DBX00,

"Case closed" refers to the point that there is no argument and there can be no argument against the fact that a consumer cannot view PS3's True HD content right out of the box. Don't try and point the blame back at me because you were ignorant enough to even make such a ridiculous statement. If you can answer my question with "Yes", then you obviously do not know much about the PS3. I'm tired of this conversation because your insistent scheming has become quite taxing. Grow up and use your brain, not your emotional connection with Sony.

JW

If you just want to play games, get the core and save yourself from spending money on features you dont want or wont use. I dont see why sony feels like jacking up the price for things most people dont want or wont use like bluray is a good thing.

"Segregation MEANS separation, retard. The fact that you don't find the separation particularly relevant doesn't matter."

Wow. You are one uninformed person. Segregation is certainly a type of separation, but offering two types of PS3 isn't segregating the consumers. There's a separation, but not segregation(no purposeful isolation of one side of the community). A person buying the 20 gig version has the same exact experience and isn't hindered at all buy the technical limitations.

The context is what's important here. Not the fact that you just looked up segregation in Wikipedia and it told you segregation is a separation. Now that you've scratched the surface you should learn to dig a little deeper. Otherwise you'll just come off as another ignorant, name calling internet fool.

You guys can go back and forth on this all day, and it probably will. Sony has more function to what it can do, but everyone has to remember that its almost 2x more than the XBox 360. People are complaining how MS forces stuff on you like the HD space and that Sony has more versatility. Sony is also pushing formats on their consumers though, and are also making you pay a lot more "out of the box".

There has to be a medium somewhere. Price highly effects a lot of things, and Im sure if the XBox360 was for $100 more than what it really is, it would have some of this nice options to.

You have to put the line somewhere. Either you agree with it or not, but that's just how business goes. To me its pointless for you guys to argue with each other, when one system costs $200 more than the other. To me, The Playstation BETTER have all of these things if your paying that much for just "out of the box" with no game.

To me, It seems hypocritical of Sony and I think all this could have been better said by the Sony Rep. There is a valid point that XBox360 core should have came with some type of small HD, but its still cheaper becuase of this. This decision makes it harder for parents to decide if they want to buy their kid a Wii or a Xbox360 Core since its similiar in price. It was a business move, and Im sure it will be a key to selling some Xbox360s this Christmas while the other two consoles are launching and getting the media. I think that was more or less the whole point of the Core system and it went beyond Sony's head.

"Oh yeah, those that are still complaining about the HDMI cable. Suck it up, they cost like $6 shipped online."

HAHAHA! So, let me get this stright...you are going to buy a $600 game system, a $2000+ television, then buy a $6 HDMI cable? Hmm, I wonder where that picture quality bottleneck will be.

So strange... Microsoft releases news that they are offering HD content over their internet service. It's not mandatory to buy into this. And yet Sony says that this is somehow a bad thing, and now all the PS3 fanboys are shouting from the rooftops that downloadable HD content is a bad thing. Please.

Koekoenutt

I actually could care less if the Wii ships with component cables. I'm not surprised that Nintendo didn't include them in the retail box and as long as their easily available consumers will be able to pick them up. Your whole argument is based on the assumption that I was hypocritical, so that can't be an assumption and your conclusion. Try again.

bassbeast

I think you've sum this whole thing up correctly. We've got options with both these systems. For ME, I know I'm going to want a high definition experience, Wifi, hard drive, online browsing, and the ability to easily upgrade to suit my personal needs. These are important to me and the PS3 offers me the best possibility of fulfilling all these needs in ONE box that sits nicely between my new 42 inch LCD TV in my living room. I'm sure you XBOX guys are enjoying your system, but it's not for me and supposedly a lot of other individuals regardless of what joystiq would have you believe.

I thought the hard drive in the PS3 was non upgradable. Are we talking about upgrading it anyway or is this actually a supported option by Sony?

Pete C

It's a digital cable, the quality of the cable is irrelevant.

Sony is a joke. Their idea of competition is putting down and ripping anything their competitors do. Show me ONE reference of Peter Moore doing anything like this. If their product and strategty is so superior, why can't they just shut the f**k up and go about their business?

Thankfully you can add a standard laptop SATA HDD for more storage. Thats what I plan to do with my ps3. I hear that MS could have used a 100 GB HDD for the 360 premium at launch but they didnt want to lose even more money.

the point is sony, MS is offering consumers a choice. If someone just wants to pickup a 360 for casual gaming, they are going to buy a core 360. Not only will a casual gamer likely NOT connect the 360 to the internet, they also probably won't be downloading movies to watch on their 360.

What Sony needs to understand is that the core system is their for the people who just want something to play video games on. I look at it like this. The core system is MS' way of competing with the Wii, while the pro system is MS' way of competing with the PS3. It makes perfect sense.

I just love how Sony always pretends that the pro 360 doesn't exist when they criticize MS.

#44, you can go ahead and think that if you want. There is an entire industry built around high-end cables that thinks otherwise.

@42 DBX00
I call it hypocritical becuase Sony is pushing for HD formats and being the highest in "Next-Gen" quality. When Sony's main attractrion is all about the HD Gaming and "True HD" formats with 1080p. They push and push for these formats, and yet they dont come with the cable. At least when you pay for "All the 'Additional Features'", don't you think that they should have included these with it?

HDMI Cables are not cheap, and if you don't want to wait for the shippign and ordering it online, it will cost AT LEAST $20 if you buy it at a retail store. You're right that I was assuming you thought Wii should come with the Component cables, but I still say Sony is being hypocritical becuase of this.

When Im paying a decently good amount of money over the other consoles, I would expect that these "$6 HDMI cables" would at least come "Out of the Box"

wait wait wait. I forgot about something...if I recall, didn't sony, like no longer than a month ago make it very clear that "they don't care what their competition is doing"? Yeah, they definately did.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/29/kutaragi-on-sonys-competition-we-dont-care/

Guys here is one solution for the 360s HD.

The Divineo 360 USB connectivity kit.

http://www.divineo.com/cgi-bin/div-us/dd-360-xusb.html

When the HDMI required content comes out, the 360 will be useless. Without that HDMI connection all the encrypted HDMI content will get scaled down.