Fix for 360's 1080p troubles is being worked on
Last Tuesday, we found ourselves rushing out to a local Toys "R" Us to pick up Microsoft's official VGA cable after our trusty Dell 2405FPW balked at dishing out 1080p over component. Regardless, we wanted to watch our 1080p upscaled DVDs and -- due to all sorts of arcane legal restrictions -- Microsoft is only able to offer that service over VGA and not component (note: reason #38 why we want an HDMI connection).So, you'll appreciate our dismay when we plugged in our new ($50!) cable, only to find that our display had serious issues with the 360's VGA connection -- it was entirely washed out, a known issue with the Xbox 360's VGA implementation apparently. But there's more! Any resolution, not just 1920x1080, exhibits a significant amount of screen tearing, which isn't replicated using component. And one last thing. Some televisions, most notably Sony's LCD XBR series, that are supposed to accept 1080p over component just flat out refuse. Just reading through the AVS Forums thread on the topic should be enough to convince anyone that something's rotten in the state of 1080p on the 360.
Microsoft podcaster Major Nelson brings word that the team in Redmond is aware of the 1080p issues and are working on a fix ... at around 8 minutes into his latest 'cast (number 200, congrats!), he says the display issue is "kind of this bug that the guys are working on and they are aware of." He limits it to simply the 1080p over component issue, so let's hope that Microsoft takes the opportunity to isolate and correct the outstanding VGA issues as well.
[Via Engadget HD]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
untitled @ Nov 8th 2006 11:35AM
I've been using the VGA cable @ 1080p on my Dell 2405FPW with no issues.. with games at least. Just make sure the contrast is set to 20-30.
anonymous @ Nov 8th 2006 11:37AM
Why would they release it so buggy without testing it properly first?....
Microsoft....figures :)
slickhead @ Nov 8th 2006 11:39AM
Wait,the xbox360's DVD player upscales DVDs ? To 1080p?
Since When ? Since the fall Update? Does Anyone have more info or a link?
AirIntake @ Nov 8th 2006 11:40AM
Um, I use the VGA cable, and it works fine. Monitor check time guys!
Daolohua @ Nov 8th 2006 11:41AM
I'm glad to hear they're workin' on it.
I have a Samsung 244t PC monitor which doesn't detect the 1080P signal at all over component and has a lower detected resolution (1400*1050) and a cropped image when run through the VGA port.
I hope this fixes it as I'd love to run the console closer to the native resolution of my monitor (1900*1200)
robrob @ Nov 8th 2006 11:42AM
i use the VGA connection with my 42 inch samsung plasma, and it is also fine (720p)
Andrew @ Nov 8th 2006 11:45AM
1080P works great the component inputs of my 50" Samsung HL-S5087W
Silent Scream @ Nov 8th 2006 11:45AM
First Post!! (maybe)
Am I the only person who could care less about 1080p? I'm just not that much of a stickler for picture quality. I'm perfectly happy with the image I get right now on my 46" HDTV. I was happy with the image I got on my 20" Magnavox 10-year-old TV as well.
Honestly, I think the only reason console makers are making such a big issue out of 1080p is because they KNOW their games are lacking. Yeah, I know. Now I'm going to get hammered by pretty much everyone...but I'm just not blown away by the software offerings out there YET.
Pete C @ Nov 8th 2006 11:45AM
Microsoft also publicly stated in an interview regarding 1080p that digital output is possible on the 360, and that an HDMI solution "would be provided when consumers demand it". There are articles out there that say digital output is not possible on the 360, but Microsoft says otherwise.
jc @ Nov 8th 2006 11:45AM
slickhead:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/09/21/xbox-360-hd-dvd-playback-maximum-1080i-via-component-1080p-vga/
@ Nov 8th 2006 11:46AM
They better fix this before the HD-DVD add on comes out.
Storm9 @ Nov 8th 2006 11:47AM
"Some televisions, most notably Sony's LCD XBR series, that are supposed to accept 1080p over component just flat out refuse."
NOT true! The sony manual clearly states it will not accept 1080p over component only HDMI.
VGA should work, but it is having problems and MSFT is working on fixing that ATM.
jaysins @ Nov 8th 2006 11:48AM
I sometimes get the tearing in cut scenes with the vga at 1080p only. Scared the s*$@ out of me the first time I saw it. VGA though does look a little less vibrant than component does on my set but not a lot worse. Adjusting the RBG values, saturation etc does help though I remember reading (don't know if it is for my set of in general) that the vga is only 16-235 on the color scale instead of 0-255 which would explain what I'm seeing. I prefer component overall (gorgeous picture, great color and very sharp and detailed picture) right now but would love to see some improvement over vga.
Silent Scream @ Nov 8th 2006 11:48AM
As a side note...yeah...nowhere NEAR first post...lol. :P
pimpnameslicbac @ Nov 8th 2006 11:51AM
Well thats great at least you guy can download the fall update I am still stuck on the endless loop.It's been that way since that damn update came out. Not Only that I can't even play game offline.Thanks Microsoft!
IslandLife @ Nov 8th 2006 11:52AM
B-B-But Microsoft is about "choice"
Yeah right. You can choose to use their buggy and rushed software upgrades or don't use their products at all. I'll choose the latter.
bird @ Nov 8th 2006 11:52AM
I own a Mits WD-Y65 and component doesn't work for me. I have a dvi input not a vga, so i would need a vga to dvi converter. I've emailed microsoft and major nelson and noone seems to have any answers on this. Bottom line is, without HDMI they will never have true 1080p support because only a very small set of those TVs that can run 1080p use component cables for it. Microsoft did this to get that bullet off the compare chart with the PS3, while lying to their users in the process.
qbix @ Nov 8th 2006 11:58AM
Dude, I have the same display (2405FPW). You can fix the washed out picture by tweaking the Red Green and Blue offsets in the service menu. Think of offsets as individual brightness and contrast controls for each of the RGB channels. You can access the service menu like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_monitors#How_to_enter_the_service_menu
Once there, shift the offset values. I used the following values, just for reference:
Offset1 R:19 G:17 B:17
Offset2 R:61: G:67 B:65
Gain R:247 G:268 B:243
In addition, bring up the brightness level to compensate the values I provided. You'll notice the colors are still not as saturated as they are with component cables. I encourage you to tinker with the levels until you have an image you like. This will effectively get rid of the washed out picture with the benefit of a faster response time thanks to VGA.
jc @ Nov 8th 2006 12:05PM
bird, some Mits HDTV have a DVI-d port. A VGA to DVI adapter will not work unless you have a DVI-a or DVI-i port.
In all honesty, the bump from 1080i/720p to 1080p is nowheres near as impressive as the jump from 480i.
killr0y @ Nov 8th 2006 12:09PM
The real reason why people are having issues are two fold:
1) COMPONENT: Your TV manufacturer flat-out lied about supporting 1080p over component (most TV manuals are wrought with technical innacuracies).
2) VGA: Your TV manufacturer has a piss-poor VGA implementation, and does not support the VGA refresh rate that the Xbox 360 defaults to.
Sorry, I have neither of these issues on my Viewsonic 37". All of you dipshits using other peoples' stupidity to bash Microsoft don't even own Xbox 360's so go have fun waiting in line for the PS3 you won't even get.. Maybe you can enjoy Genji (rated 6 out of 10--a major flop--at IGN) on a lucky friend's PS3 in a couple weeks... Gotta live the realtime weapon change and giant enemy crabs!
C. Grant @ Nov 8th 2006 12:10PM
qbix: I did that, but it's not perfect, and it messes with anything else I want to plug into that port.
What I'm wondering, is how do I disable the service menu if and when they fix this?
Jason @ Nov 8th 2006 12:12PM
Ok, I have a sceptre 20.1" widescreen monitor, (just bought, it's very nice) it has printed right on the top of the monitor bezel. "1080I and 1080P hdtv ready. I have the Microsoft VGA cable (also just bought recently)and it does look awsome, but when I go to "display" setting, It says something like "you need an hdtv set to adjust levels" like the 480p,1080i,1080P so whats the deal with that?
bird @ Nov 8th 2006 12:15PM
thanks jc, i'll have to look into that. It's funny i've got more support help on a blog then from microsoft. I just don't want to go spend 70 dollars on the vga cable and dvi converter and it not work. Right now i'm hoping microsoft will come to their senses and release a HDMI cable. I'm definitely not buying an HD-DVD until then. I mean HD-DVD is nothing unless you can get 1080p running.
maximus @ Nov 8th 2006 12:17PM
"Sorry, I have neither of these issues on my Viewsonic 37". All of you dipshits using other peoples' stupidity to bash Microsoft don't even own Xbox 360's so go have fun waiting in line for the PS3 you won't even get.. Maybe you can enjoy Genji (rated 6 out of 10--a major flop--at IGN) on a lucky friend's PS3 in a couple weeks... Gotta live the realtime weapon change and giant enemy crabs!"
Wow you must be at least 13 years old.
logikil @ Nov 8th 2006 12:19PM
Where is it stated that the 360 will not upscale DVD's over the component cable? I haven't come across anything with regards to the fall update that mentions that. Upscaling had been in place prior to the update with the VGA cable.
Does anyone have a specific article or otherwise that points to this?
KaneRobot @ Nov 8th 2006 12:24PM
It's SO annoying to see these same people showing up and bringing up the SAME issues that have been discussed ad-nauseum about this topic, but here we go anyway:
The Sony TV DOES accept 1080p over VGA. THE MANUAL IS WRONG. This has already been proven several times over. It does not accept 1080p over component. The incompatibility is NOT due to a sync-on-green issue. More below.
"Um, I use the VGA cable, and it works fine. Monitor check time guys!"
This has nothing to do with the monitors, unless, like in the case above, it doesn't accept resoutions at a certain input (ie the XBRs won't take 1080p over component).
This isn't the first time killr0y has posted ill-informed, inaccurate information. Yet as time goes on and what he says is disproven further and further, he still sticks to his guns. The issue is with Microsoft, not the panel manufacturer. The Microsoft VGA signal does not conform to any industry standard, while most panels (the Sony included) do. killr0y seems to be an over-defensive MS fan who is jilted by the fact that MS screwed up. Get over it. I love the 360 but there is no argument for the fact that MS released a flawed update here. It's no big deal and not worth flipping out over as long as they fix it in the near future.
If you refuse to accept the technical proof tha this is a Microsoft problem related to their horizontal frequency output, maybe you'll believe it at the basest level - why would MICROSOFT be working on a fix if they did nothing wrong?
jc @ Nov 8th 2006 12:25PM
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041903&p_id=2396&seq=1&format=2&style=
http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-VGA-HD-Cable/dp/B000B6MLTG/sr=1-2/qid=1163006380/ref=sr_1_2/002-6740401-6548863?ie=UTF8&s=videogames
bird, those should work for your TV. I just checked mits' website and it says you have 'PC DVI-I Input'. The only thing you might need to change is a menu option to allow the DVI port to be analogue.
As for the 1080i / 1080p HD-DVD problem... being that all movies are 24 frames per second, you are not going to notice much of a difference. Interlaced is basically 30fps and progressive is 60fps. Movies are going to look great either way.
Steve @ Nov 8th 2006 12:27PM
Microsoft is literally incapable of producing a product that actually works. It's mindboggling how engrained poor product quality has become in their corporate culture due to their history with Windows.
(Disclaimer: My first sentence isn't entirely true because I got a Microsoft keyboard in 1997 that worked flawlessly until earlier this year. The reason it failed was due to my habit of punching the keyboard in frustration while trying to work around bugs with Windows software. It also had its fair share of cat hair and food crumbs over those years and still managed to work. Hooray Microsoft! You can build keyboards!)
jc @ Nov 8th 2006 12:29PM
logikil, check the link on post #10...
KaneRobot @ Nov 8th 2006 12:31PM
logikil - I don't have a link handy but the 360 definitely does not upscale DVDs over component, unfortuantely. There's an article on engadget somewhere but I couldn't track it down. Here's the breakdown:
XBOX 360 HD DVD:
Component Output: 720p, 1080i
VGA Output: 720p, 1080i, 1080p
XBOX 360 Standard DVD:
Component Output: 480p
VGA Output: 480p, Upscaled to 720p, Upscaled to 1080i, Upscaled to 1080p
One thing I will say is the upscaled to 1080p DVD via VGA looks shockingly FANTASTIC on my Samsung 4695D. I like it so much I may get rid of my high-end upconverting DVD player. I really can't get over how good it looks...to the non-hardcore it could probably pass as high def.
Robotic House Plant @ Nov 8th 2006 12:35PM
I've been using the VGA cables for a couple of months now with various Dell displays. I haven't encountered the problem you described.
But I will say it looks pretty nice on a VGA screen
qbix @ Nov 8th 2006 12:37PM
@C. Grant: Correct, the settings you use on the service menu will not change if you plug another VGA source. I don't have anything but my 360 plugged into the VGA port, so this solutions works for me. Perhaps your other device can be plugged into the DVI port? Oh, and to disable the service menu, just turn off your monitor and back on (without holding any buttons).
I waited for MS to fix the washed out image issue for months before I found out about this workaround but nothing. Tearing is a new issue which only seems to happen with 1080p. I really hope they don't ignore the many people who are plugging their 360s to such a popular LCD display.
Steve @ Nov 8th 2006 12:51PM
#24 Maximus:
>>Wow you must be at least 13 years old.
Did you really mean to write:
Wow, you must be at most 13 years old.
C. Grant @ Nov 8th 2006 12:58PM
"just turn off your monitor and back on (without holding any buttons)"
uh-uh. Unplugging it and plugging it back in disabled the "Factory" button under "Factory Reset" but the option is still there. It still shows the "Samsung" and "V 2.0" text as well. Weird, eh?
Jason @ Nov 8th 2006 1:00PM
"Am I the only person who could care less about 1080p? I'm just not that much of a stickler for picture quality. I'm perfectly happy with the image I get right now on my 46" HDTV. I was happy with the image I got on my 20" Magnavox 10-year-old TV as well.
Honestly, I think the only reason console makers are making such a big issue out of 1080p is because they KNOW their games are lacking. Yeah, I know. Now I'm going to get hammered by pretty much everyone...but I'm just not blown away by the software offerings out there YET."
If you had a 1080p display, you would. Nobody wants to have their picture scaled by the TV/monitor's hardware. It's just lame. Scaling should be done by an internal algorithm before the signal ever reaches your display device.
rapture @ Nov 8th 2006 1:21PM
Fixing the 1080p on a DELL 2407 with the XBOX 360: http://hushedcasket.com/index.php/topic,1720.0.html
JSBeckerist @ Nov 8th 2006 1:31PM
I have a SONY WEGA 50" LCD HDTV (1080p compatible). I also own an Xbox 360 (1080p compatible). On the 360 I set the parameter to 1080p and BAM! Fuzz, scrolling and general disarray (Simpsons did it!) So yeah, I use component too but it really doesn't work for me even though I (should technically) have all of the required hardware...
jaysins @ Nov 8th 2006 1:40PM
I think a lot of problems are coming with people not reading their manuals properly. An extremely limited amount of 1080p displays support 1080i over component. Mine doesn't list it by I tried to see what would happened and low and behold it worked. I actually keep it on 720p for vids and 720p only games because I prefer the scaler on my tv to that of the 360. I don't even have an extremely expensive 1080p display either. I know there is an issue with sony which is probably microsofts fault there based on what I've read on forums. However, if you do some digging around about inputs you fill find that hidef standards are lacking in a standard. My tv won't except a 1080p @ 60fps signal via hdmi from a samsung bluray player but with a 1080p to dvi to hdmi adaptor will work off a pc. Go figure.
Pete C @ Nov 8th 2006 1:55PM
Here's something for all you 1080p freaks out there to read. CNET recently did a test of 1080i vs 1080p...the result? It is pracically impossible to tell them apart on the best Blu-Ray movie. 1080p is pretty much all hype. Shit, I even HAVE a 1080p set and I am not that concerned about it.
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6661274-1.html?tag=cnetfd.mt
a Master Ninja @ Nov 8th 2006 2:27PM
I just want to say I've been using the VGA adapter for 6 months now, and while I tweaked the color settings on my monitor a little, I haven't encountered the screen tearing issues or other problems people try to associate with the update. I highly recommend the VGA adapter, actually. Cheap way to get high def.
Algernon @ Nov 8th 2006 2:41PM
Hey killr0y, so when MS says its a known issue and theyre working on it... does that mean its not their problem and its not their crap that is wrong, so their not working on it?
BMWM3P @ Nov 8th 2006 2:52PM
Just another of ms lies to make their bitches think they didn't get rip off. The 360 is just an HD wannabe console it can't do 1080p right, it doesn't have a proper HD connection and it doesn't have an HD drive that plays games and have a HD movies. At least nintendo has stuck to their guns and said that they can't match sony offering.
Sony has been balls out HD since day one and have put everything that is you need to have a true next gen machine. ms has just rushed their unfinished console out the door and adding flawed funtionality ever since. They were so scared of Sony that they send out a flawed, mediocre console so they could sell some of them.
Again ms has shown what they scared of Sony releasing a buggy useless software patch that has turned a lot of consoles into bricks and has offered nothing but bragging points for ms. I can't wait to see how that shitty hd-dvd addon turns out for any of you who are stupid enough to buy it.
jc @ Nov 8th 2006 3:36PM
Nice trolling, BMWM3P... you are among the best.
I love the way you manage to insult everyone, yet still keep your smug air of superiority.
The only thing I would suggest is maybe a little bit of originality, your Sony tripping is old and has been done by ever 13yr old.
SnapperDragon @ Nov 8th 2006 3:44PM
@41: BMWM3P
Dude, you act as if Sony sells perfect products. Not even close. I think I have found most of them with my purchases of Sony stuff over the years. I've completely chosen to ignore all Sony products because of this.
By the way, what makes you think Sony can make a complex console when they can't even make batteries correctly? Do you know how much that error is costing all the companies that have to now help replace them?
Big DOH for you and Sony.
crono141 @ Nov 8th 2006 3:49PM
Might get a 360 instead of that upscaling DVD player.
Jason @ Nov 8th 2006 5:23PM
SO when I connect my vga cable to my new widescreen monitor (that clearly says 1080P on the bezel) should I be able to go into my xbox360 dashboard and tweak the settings (not just resolution ie.widescreen,fullscreen) But also the 480P, 720P, 1080I, 1080P???? Thanks
juggernaught @ Nov 8th 2006 5:27PM
this is kind of a weird thing. check this out. the night before this i was working at circuit city (FIREDOG BABY!) and we had to dismount and remount all the tv's and they are all connected through component. i dont really see how the xbr's dont work with it cuz we have 2 and they both work fine, with great detail too..as for hdmi, dont have the big bucks yet for something that big.
juggernaught @ Nov 8th 2006 5:33PM
wow..BMWM3P really though, before you speak learn to do so first. not for nothing but i kno you guys have seen the reviews for GOW. it looks and probably is better than anything sony will be offering in the first 6 months of the ps3's life. im not gonna say anything much about sony sinces its been done but to say that the 360 is a flawed machine with anything but hd??? i dont kno bro, hd isnt just grafics and visual immersion or else no one would buy consoles period. they'd just stick to pc gaming since its been hd for some time now.
Omega2k3 @ Nov 8th 2006 6:34PM
I'm pretty angry at Microsoft.
They should NEVER have released the Fall Update without proper bug testing.
A major update from such a major company shouldn't include bugs that make one of the features unusable and consoles bricked.
Yeah, my console did break down after the update.
AirIntake @ Nov 8th 2006 7:35PM
@KaneRobot
"he issue is with Microsoft, not the panel manufacturer. The Microsoft VGA signal does not conform to any industry standard, while most panels (the Sony included) do."
How exactly does the VGA signal not conform to any industry standard? Do you have links to any technical documents detailing exactly how the VGA signal doesn't conform? I've had no issues on my HDTV or my LCD monitor with the VGA connection. Both detect the proper resolution with a refresh rate of 60Hz. Perhaps are the voltage levels below spec or something? I'm an electrical engineer so I would really like to know exactly what the issue is.
Anyone who has some data on the problem can email it to me at ee469@hotmail.com