Hands-on: the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive

ZeroCorpse:
I don't want to just play games, okay? I want a high-def disc player too. I paid $830 for my first DVD player, that was almost 10 years ago now. And it was worth it. I paid $1K for my LaserDisc player! A PS3 is a STEAL at $500 for a BluRay player.

And it plays games too. In my case, you might as well ask me how much it would cost to get a car without an engine. I know you don't feel the same way, I understand. But you should also attempt to understand other people's situations.

PS3 is not more all-in-one and proprietary than a Mac. First of all, over half the Mac models Apple offers have a built-in display. That's more all-in-one than PS3.

The PS3 does about as much as my Intel Mac Mini. A $600 PS3 (my Mac Mini was $600) comes with a larger HDD, reads BluRay discs (but writes no discs, unlike my Mac). Both will drive a 1080p HDTV at full res (my Mac Mini is attached to my 720p TV).

The PS3 and Mac both run UNIX and support 3rd party USB keyboard, mice, headsets and USB gamepads (including a Dual-Shock with a $15 converter). The PS3 and Mac both support 3rd party Bluetooth keyboards, mice and headsets. The 360 doesn't support 3rd party USB gamepads or 3rd party Bluetooth keyboards, mice and headsets. Instead you must buy their gamepads and $60 wireless headsets (which are low quality anyway, check the reviews). It doesn't support Bluetooth keyboards or mice at all. PS3 can save games to the internal HD, which you can upgrade yourself easily. It also can save games to a Memory Stick, CF or SD card. 360 only saves games to MS 1st-party HD or MS proprietary memory cards.

Honestly, if you look at it, the only thing looking proprietary is the 360. How quickly will you end up giving back the $100 you save up front in having to buy MS wireless headsets, hard drives and memory cards? Let alone a Wi-Fi adapter if you need it (I don't).

wanna see the clear winner? click here http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/missionimpossibleiii.html and http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/missionimpossibleiii.html to compare.

HD DVD (MI3)
Overall Grade 4.5 out of 5
The Movie Itself 3.5 out of 5
HD Video Quality 5 out of 5
HD Audio Quality 4.5 out of 5
Supplements 3.5 out of 5
High-Def Extras 2 out of 5
Bottom Line Must Own

BLU-RAY (MI3)
Overall Grade 4 out of 5
The Movie Itself 3.5 out of 5
HD Video Quality 5 out of 5
HD Audio Quality 4.5 out of 5
Supplements 3.5 out of 5
High-Def Extras 0 out of 5
Bottom Line Must Own

"52. wanna see the clear winner? click here"

The difference is about as clear as l.a. smog. they are virtually the same, the only difference is found in the extras and i could care less really if tom cruise used john masters organic hair pomade or aloe styling gel (cause thats all 2 stars is gonna really give you in the way of extras).

firstly

xbox 360 premium - $399
recharge kit - $15
wifi network adaptor - $99
hd-dvd player - $200
5 years xbox live - $250 ($50 a year)

sony playstation 3 60 gig version - $599

+ hdmi, add full 1080p support for movies and games,
add games on blu ray, add free internet gaming,
add built in wifi, add usb recharger,
add linux operating system,add 60 gb hard drive,
add backwards compatibility for about 12,000 games out.

secondly it is an external drive, it takes up a hell of lot more space, it is un tidy with more wires and stuff, i would say the data transfer would not be as effecient as it uses usb, i mean you guys will have xbox 360, power brick, hd-dvd player and wifi, hdd.

we go get me those fries: "Ok let me understand: you pay 400$ for a 360 and another 200$ for hd-dvd, that equals 600$. So why is there such a problem with the ps3's price?"

360 givs you a choice.

hahahaa... all this crap about PS3 is better this better that, blah, blah, blah... no diods for the BD in the PS3 is causing Sony massive headaches. From what I have seen from a video quality prospective the Xbox 360 has the big leg up on PS3. The extra year of development practice with XNA is paying off for the boys at MSFT. It'll be mid-2007 before the PS3 gets rolling so all the hype will be quite useless in the long haul for Sony. I love that Sony is getting all the hype around the unit while I'm kickin' back playing my GOW on my Pioneer PRO-FHD1 in 1080P watching HD-DVDs on my 360... Keep waiting fanbois :D

Hahaha forget about the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive, because Xbox Live HD Movie and TV downloads will pwn Blu-ray to the early grave along with Betamax and Minidisc and UMD movies.

Sony's record of format failures is longer than Blu-ray's load times!

$500 for the console
$200 for the hd-dvd add on
$60 for a game

And you guys tried to make it seem as if the PS3 was costing so much. Lawls.

55. pot calling the kettle black huh....

56. its a great idea. Just need to up that HDD to 100GB or so before you even start thinking about this option. My dvr gets filled so quickly from recording HD content. Im talking not even two weeks..and that has a 200GB HDD. As far as sending Sony to an early grace. Im sure Sony will so this as well, and sometimes people like to own a physical copy of what they bought. It makes letting a friend borrow something less of a nightmare.

My opinion of the 360 hddvd addon:
Why did they bother. They dont care about the format at all. They will never make a dime off of it, other then pushing vc-1 which both formats use. Every hddvd player they make is being sold at a loss, for what? Not to let Sony have something up on them. Add ons in the past never sell well. This add on does nothing for the games. If this was built in it would be totally different. I know I know..."Well MS gives us a choice and Sony doesnt". Yeah the only choice they are giving you is to support a format that will be dead in a year since MS didnt have enough faith in hddvd to include it in the sku from the beginning. If they did they would already have 6-8 million hddvd's out there and SOny would be in for a heap of shit playing catch up.If anyone believes MS cares about hddvd you are a fool. This is plain a simple, a way to smite Sony.

And BTW Gears is great. Makes me look forward to UT2007.

Someone should run a side by side pix of a PS3 (sleek all in one) and an Xbox 360 with HD DVD add on plus the power brick (fugly). Should help the consumers make up their mind.

So the XBOX-360 now supports HD-DVD? Well, so does my AV receiver from 1994: all I have to do is plug a HD-DVD player into the extra power cable on the back and suddenly my old receiver is an HD-DVD player. I have an old surge protector from 15 years ago that magically supports DVD, CD, vinyl, minidisc, NES, SNES, electric toothbrush, TV, HDTV, XBox, and even my smoothie making blender! The point is; anything can support anything if you're just going to plug in another major component that can do the job.

I think an XBOX 360 with native HD-DVD support would be a great idea, but this external and halfassed HD-DVD add on is really laughable. Why not just buy a real HD-DVD player and plug it into your TV? I guess a $200 price tag is attractive to those who already bought an XBOX and have paid $140 for its repair, but I think I'd just buy the real thing.

Netflix has a good selection of HD-DVD movies to rent. I was going to get one of these until they anounced that downloadable movies deal. Now I'm going to wait and see if they come out with a larger HDD and see how that compares in price to the HD-DVD drive.

Silly fanboys, you and Microsoft are about as much followers as you say PS3 or Nintendo fanboys are.

The only reason Microsoft went with HD-DVD is that they are not capable of making thier own like Sony did, they wanted a high tech DVD and would be laughed at if they used Sony's technology next gen, that means they had to go with the only other alternative apart from DVD which would have gotten dominated anyway if HD-DVD hadn't come along.

I can say one thing, HD-DVD better win the format war, otherwise 360 will be forced to kiss the feet of Sony directly and use thier technology, however if it is the other way round, as Microsoft doesn't own HD-DVD, its only Toshiba Sony has to use the software from.

BTW, you talk as though it is virtually impossible for Sony to sell blu-ray drives and PS3's separate in future. It won't be too hard for Sony in future to lessen the price of PS3's and manufacturing by simply doing a repeat of last gen, make a smaller half the size of PS3 original or 360 for that matter PS3, and sell blu-ray drives externally.

Not saying it will happen, but not saying its impossible either, stop thinking so far ahead as if you know all about the world and future.

Well seeing that NBC/Universal is exclusively HD-DVD I may have to get one if Battlestar Galactica will only come out on HD-DVD.

"Blu-Ray is hardly comparable to UMDs considering the UMD format was designed exclusively for the PSP, whereas Blu-Ray is a standard format used by standalone players."

I disagree. Universal Media Disc (UMD) was a medium developed by Sony for games, movies/television, and music. It was used by the PSP, which is primarily a game machine, that was also positioned as a portable movie player. In fact, the number of movie titles available in UMD format far exceed the number of games available in UMD format.

Blu-Ray is very similair to PDD, a format developed by Sony in 2003. Blu-Ray media can be used for games, movies/television, and music. Blu-Ray is a consortium, primarily lead by Sony. And the PS3, a game console with uses Blu-Ray, is expected to push Blu-Ray into the mainstream. It's likely the number of movies released on Blu-Ray will far exceed the number of games released on Blu-Ray.

The problem with the UMD format, is that it's DRM encryption was cracked early. Sony also felt no reason to introduce a stand alone player to compete with DVD, whose encryption was also cracked.

Blu-Ray is an effort to fix the cracked encryption problems, and to also introduce high defintion (this is the main push to differentiate itself from DVD), more space available for content, and to succeed DVD.

And to be fair, HD DVD exists for the same reason Blu-Ray exists.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out, especially now that digital downloading [of movies] is making greater strides.

"$500 for the console
$200 for the hd-dvd add on
$60 for a game"

The 360 console is $299 and $399. The HD DVD add-on is $199. And disc based games range from $20-60

Regarding the XBox cost -- while the LIST price is $400 for the premium console, does anyone actually pay that anymore? I bought mine for $330 from Overstock a couple months ago. In addition, there's a coupon for Circuit City so you can get the HD-DVD add-on for $160.

And everyone complaining that add-ons are ugly - you're missing the fact that I can take the add-on and plug it into my PC. Flexible.

And when I said HD-DVD is outselling BD from between 3-1 and 11-1, I meant the movies, not the players.

http://www.thedvdwars.com

CW

64. "Blu-Ray is hardly comparable to UMDs considering the UMD format was designed exclusively for the PSP, whereas Blu-Ray is a standard format used by standalone players."

I disagree. Universal Media Disc (UMD) was a medium developed by Sony for games, movies/television, and music. It was used by the PSP, which is primarily a game machine, that was also positioned as a portable movie player. In fact, the number of movie titles available in UMD format far exceed the number of games available in UMD format.

ur a fucking disgrace im going to leave it at that because i dont have enough time to chew you out here.

MGM is owned by Sony. If there are any studios that will be hold outs as far as publishing in HD DVD, it'll be these two. Sony almost never drops a format, even when it's mostly unsuccessful (Betamax, Minidisc, ATRAC, UMD)

Disney at shareholders meeting said they would likely publish in HD DVD. Bottomline, it's a financial move. Their decision to support Blu-Ray is based on strong encryption and likelyhood the PS3 will sell well and generate movie purchases.

Fox has never been quick to adopt new formats. It took them a long time to publish in DVD. They're publishing cautiously, and on the promise the PS3 will drive Blu-Ray sales. If Blu-Ray movie sales do not meet expectations and if for some reason HD DVD does better, look for Fox to publish in HD DVD as well.

What could potentially disrupt everything would be a new generation of players that can read both HD DVD and Blu-Ray, as they were be no incentive to combine the formats, and instead, we'll likely see publishes choose the cheapest and most popular format.

Another disruption could be downloading movies vs playing discs.

No matter what happens, it's going to take years. You still need an HD TV to play HD movies, and that's a purchase most people make on a 8-15 year basis.

er, I meant adopt one or the other format not combine formats.

It's too late for that.

Does the HD-DVD drive come with the Fall Dashboard Update as well?

I wish people would stop showing this stuff without the cables... We've all seen that - show us the 'unglamourous' grouping of the 360, the HD-DVD drive, and the power adaptors.

I'm telling you, it's getting ugly around my 360 - the powerbrick, the plug'n'charge cable, the quickcharge station, soon to add the wireless headset, which adds another power adaptor.

I think Microsoft needs to come out with a 360-themed Power Strip™ - I predict an extremely high 'attach rate' for that accessory!

#72 - That wouldn't be fair, since the PS3 doesn't actually COME with any HD cables. ;)

Good one. The old name calling, 'because I said so' response, without explaining your position.

I guess my response is to laugh at you.

If you're going to challenge, go through with it. Let's hear what you have to say on how noone in their right mind would consider Sony's experience with UMD when discussing Blu-Ray. The PSP is a game machine that plays movies. The PS3 is a game machine that plays movies. It's not like we were bringing up UMD during a discussion of fusion and how the two correspond to one another.

Hmm, I wonder if my response will -wind you up- and you'll feel compelled to respond. Hahahaha

Man, some of you people are such Sony Fanboys....

For me, I already had a 360, so for under 200 the hd-dvd player wasn't that big of a deal.

The picture quality is AMAZING. And with HD-DVD/DVD combo discs, you really can't go wrong right now.

PS3 could turn the tides to blu-ray, but, PS3 has to be available to the masses first. If microsoft put together a packaged 360/hd-dvd system for about $499 this holiday, and Sony's PS3 is MIA to most people, sony = screwed.

#75 - The update that supports the HD-DVD drive was released on Halloween.

People could by a PS2 and get an entry level DVD player at that time at an affordbale price. DVD had momentum and it was an obvious improvement over VHS, even to Joe Six Pack. This was a system selling feature. Does Joe Six Pack really care about BluRay? Most people watch and rent movies because they're entertaining, not because they are in 1080P. These boards are filled with hardcore gamers and gadget geeks who want the latest and greatest. That probably represents 5% of consumers. The rest? Sony's betting the general public needs more resolution on Will Ferrels facial pores in Talledega Nights, and are willing to pay $600 for it. Look how long it took for HDTV to get any kind of market saturation, and it's been broadcast since the Nineties. Sony has had a few homeruns in thier history so people give them some slack, but the list of colossal failures is even longer. I personally think they're luck is about to run out.

73. #72 - That wouldn't be fair, since the PS3 doesn't actually COME with any HD cables. ;)

well if you insist....

do you know why the ps3 does not come with any hd cables? so i can choose (i know you xbox people love this word now, but just wait till u need more hardrive space, and headset) how much money i want to spend on the cable and what quality cable i want, not some sony one that i will probably deem unsatisfacory and will only drive the price up more.

i wouldnt call myself a fanboy for any of the consoles. I have a 360 and its pretty impressive (although its broke atm red light syndrome but gamestop r replacin it 2moro) and i have to say the 360 is messy compared to the ps3.

with the 360 ive got the unit with the power brick, then the wifi and soon a hddvd drive with another power brick and with the ps3 u just have the ps3 with wifi and next gen dvd built in as well as the power supply

altho i love the 360 but will get a ps3 wen the price comes down here in the uk

http://www.petitiononline.com/ps3/petition.html

this should deffinently be used for games

"15. Lol, why does MS not put thier money where thier mouth is, they say HD-DVD is superior etc etc, and how it will definatly win, but they didn't take the chance and build it inside the 360 like Sony did. Thats not confidence, thats uncertainty.

Its being sold seperatly incase it fails 360 owners can chuck it :P"

you sony fanboys are HORRIBLE.

sure, you get less in an xbox 360, but perhaphs the reason they didnt put it INSIDE the 360 is because they dont want to force all these people that dont have HDTVs to waste 200 dollars.

this way it is there for those who want it, and those who dont have a need dont need to fork out the extra cash.

so maybe with an assload of accessories the 360 costs more, but if i just wanna buy a VIDEO GAME console and play some games, a 360 is cheaper, and that cant be argued.

Like I said, the 360 is messy :( I don't expect that is it either, there will be lots more add ons to come, I'm quite sure of it, by the time you have all, your 360 will most likely look like a wired octopus :S

Its a good thing controllers are wireless, cos that would have been the last straw, and its not just that, they call the PS3 ugly, but with wires hanging all over the place to extensions, a block of a power unit sticking out of the back, and pretty much loads of other rather curvy blocks added to one big curvy block, it does your head in :S

My PC has less extensions, lol.

I understand the fact that there is choice, but now there is no choice as to how messy the whole thing looks all together :(

I already have a hddvd player and it looks great. The movies out (RIGHT NOW) are better than the bluray ones for the time being. When bluray gets more than 2 20 year old Terminator movies im interested in then I will buy them for the PS3 that I will get on Friday. People defending one over the other is just a joke. Its a format that will die when digital distribution takes its place in a few years or decades.

I don't think I've ever looked behind the TV after connecting any component, to stare at the wires and power cords. I guess if it were visible it might be a concern, but I don't see any wires, nor does it bother me how many may be hooked up.

As far a choice, I appreciate that. Since I don't have an HDTV, I don't have to pay more for a movie player that I don't need right now that I can't use anyway. And any additional accessories, even though they're available, doesn't mean I have to buy them. I like choices. And wires, like I said earlier-- out of sight, out of mind.

I find it funny that the reviewer complained about having another piece of hardware because "it's yet another box to add to your growing arsenal of electronics." You know, because all the other HD-DVD players out there don't take up any room, they're in fact invisible and are powered by good thoughts and cheezits.

Bah, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, who cares? They both have their merits, they both have their downsides. Either or both could fail.

Do people seriously care that much about power adapters? Is that actually a factor for anyone? Come on people who gives a shit! Oh my God, it is a thing you will shove behind your TV and never look at again.

The fact that it is an add-on is a plus. Personally, I'd rather keep the game I am currently playing in the Xbox at all times, and swap out movies on the 2nd drive. Why more people don't see this as a plus is beyond me. It takes up a little more space, but you get that back in conveinence.

Don't declare Blu-Ray the winner yet. It it FAR from over. After all the hardcores buy PS3, we'll see how the general public warms up to the idea of a $500 console. HD movies and games are high on our priority lists, but not on the vast majority of people who are still perfectly fine with DVD. What HD-DVD has over Blu-Ray is price. The Toshiba HD-A1 is almost at the $300 price point already online. By next year, HD-DVD players may drop down to the mass-market friendly price of $200. If Blu-Ray can't match that, you can forget that format going anywhere. PS3 is not at a mass market price, and will not be for a LONG time. It can't win a movie format war unless stand-alone players become a lot cheaper.

To #17 - Blu-Ray is a NOT a Sony standard. HD-DVD is approved by the DVD Forum, does anybody know why?.... Because the head of the DVD forum is Toshiba, which if you didnt know is also head of HD-DVD. Toshiba gets practically most of the royalties when a DVD is made and will be true again for HD-DVD. Sony on the other hand created Blu-Ray with other manufactures and place them on the Blu-ray board so that royalties are distributed equal between board members, not just creator.

Oh and by the way Im not a Sony fanboy, just a person who knows the facts

thx JO for clearing that up.

I still dont see the umd/blu ray similarites that some people here keep shouting out. Whoever finds them similar needs to answer me these questions.

1.How many devices can play umd's (now or the near future)?
2.How many devices can play blu ray's(now or the near future)?
3.Is the picture quality of umd inferior to dvd?
4.Is the picture quality of blu ray inferior to dvd?
5. How many companies were recieving royalties from the umd format?
6. How many companies were recieving royalties from the blu ray format?

UMD failed because most people would rather convert a dvd they bought to an mp4 and play that on their psp rather then buying a movie twice... yes its that friggin simple.

LOL. Congrats to Sony for apparently fooling some people into thinking that they are the "standard" and they didn't "go it alone."

Double LOL at people saying that the sales so far don't matter and/or that HD-DVD's advantage is over. Funny, look at the sales of both formats (both players and movies)...HD-DVD still has a healthy lead and still outsell Blu-Ray players.. Yeah, I'm sure all those movie sales for the holidays won't be affected by whoever has the larger install base.

Too bad for Sony - the PS3 could have been a catalyst to turn the tide, but since they won't have any consoles available for Christmas, it won't be much more than a blip on the radar as far as "catching up"...especially since the 360's add-on seems to be in high demand. It was in the top 5 360 products on Amazon last I checked.

Blu-Ray has been underwhelming anyway. Inferior codec leading to inferior picture quality (yes, even now) and a more expensive manufacturing process. Sure, the discs at retail are about the same price (for now...HD-DVD will likely go down sooner), but this is just bleeding more money out of Sony. They're going down a dead end road right now and are too stubborn and ignorant to turn back.

The points you make about UMD and Blu-Ray are interesting, but I don't think anyone has stated that they're alike when it comes to picture quality or means of where you can play the disc, or royalties.

It's simple really. Sony created a game machine that plays movies with a disc format they created. Oh, and it's portable. The machine is popular, and sells well. For a while, the movies sold well too. But now the movies aren't selling as well, but the machine remains popular.

Sony created another game machine. This one also plays movies. And it's using a disc format they helped created based on their technology they introduced prior to the consortium. It's not until the introduction of the PS3 that Blu-Ray movies expected to sell well. The machine itself is expected to sell as well as Playstations in the past.

Does that guarantee that Blu-Ray movies will dominate? Not necessarily.

The reason why UMD failed = Cracked encryption, which Sony then refused to allow anyone other system to read their "universal" disc format. The discs were costly and slow, and for the most part didn't included any additional extra content. Also, I think selling primarily to a game audience, you're limiting yourself from a much greater market. You're only going to sell certain types of movies and so many copies. You need to solicite a much wider audience to be successful.

With the PS3, Sony is again targeting a game audience with movies. Will it work? I don't know. The movies are more expensive. Check. They're slower. Check. Right now, there's what a couple of players all at $1000 or more (with the exception of the PS3), all of which are in very limited quantity. Will the PS3 be enough to make Blu-Ray dominate? It's too early to make that call. But this situation seems oddly familar.

So when people are comparing UMD and Blu-Ray, I think it's because Sony has been down a similar path before. I don't think it has anything to do with picture quality, royalties, or number of players.

i needed to show the psp as the only umd device out there. the fact that you could get a better quality copy of a movie by simply converting a dvd to mp4, and the fact that there are other companies in this and not just Sony, which is important to people that believe Sony's way of doing business will doom the format when its NOT JUST SONY.

Do people realize that hd dvd has been out longer then blu ray? hd dvd had it own problems when it first came out and they corrected them. Im willing to give the blu ray format the same time to correct those issues. companies like warner and paramount just started supporting the blu ray format fairly recently. Hence the reason there are more hd dvd movies. The prices of blu ray equipment is still steep compared to hd dvd, but i believe the ps3 will fix this. I know people who want a ps3 simply as a cheaper blu ray player. BTW, the quality of it as a blu ray player has been reviewed and it does not have the soft picture issues that were evident in the samsung player. Its also twice as fast with loading.

i'm pro choice

How do you get the movie to fill up the entire screen, this is on the movie King Kong? We have a JVC HDILA set? Thanks in advance...right now it has some unused screen at the top and bottom.

Wait one bleeding second....

Do you SONY fanboys realize that only about 20-30% of gamers actually have HDTV's? That means that sony is selling a useless product (BD player) to 70-80% of PS3 buyers.

It's not like I like everything about the xbox 360, but atleast they were being smart here. The average gamer doesnt want a high-def player because the average gamer DOES NOT have an HDTV.

I on the other hand DO have an HDTV, so I made the choice to buy an HD-DVD add on. What about that is so hard to grasp?

My questions: Shouldn't xbox 360s be able to play movies in HD? Is this MS version of Blu-Ray? if so what's the Disc capacity?