Nintendo doesn't like next-gen optical discs

When I first read this post, I agreed with most of you in thinking that Sony is forcing Blu-ray on us. However, the more that I've read some of these responses, the more I am inclined to agree with Justin. Before I get attacked, hear me out.

Sony is forcing Blu-ray on us no more than Microsoft is forcing DVDs on us. That is the format they have chosen. Whether their arguments regarding them needing the extra space are true or not, that's the format that it is.

By using the same logic that many of you are using, I could claim that Microsoft is forcing their "ring of light" on me. I mean, hey, I don't like it and they're not giving me a choice. Apparently, they are forcing this on me. Do you see the flaw in your logic?

Sony isn't forcing Blu-ray on anyone. True, you can't buy a PS3 without it, nor can you buy a 360 without DVD playback. That's just how it is. You can't say, "I want a PS3 without Blu-ray." You can't say that because it doesn't exist. Blu-ray is an integral part of the PS3. I don't want a 360 with a power brick the size of my family dog either, but if I want a 360, I have to accept "Rover" too.

They're not forcing anything on us, so let's all find something else to whine about. Honestly, how many people here are actually spoiled brats and how many here just whine like one?

This just in....

PS4 will be based on the forthcoming Holographic Crystal Cubes. (HCC)

The drive assembly alone will cost roughly $275,000.00 to produce and sell for $300,000.00 through OEM channels.

Sure...You don't -HAVE- to buy into HCC, but the only way to continue the love affair you've had with previous PlayStation products is to go in full bore on the HCC format. Like it or not, one ushers in the other. Trojan horse style, if you will...

Is 'force' even the right word here?

How about coerce ???

Man, I saw someone post that Mac users use to be the most unreasonable, blind, annoying posters on the planet. Well now I'd agree that the Nintendolts have definately replaced Mac users as the most uninformed blind defenders of a product ever.

Congrats Ninfandos, your #1.

Is sony forcing a Console in any one who want a cheap Blueray player?

The add-on drive is expensive, ugly and short-sighted - if you really think about it, it's pretty stupid to have two drives, attached to each other by a USB cable, but yet you have to make sure you put the game in the correct drive and the movie in the other one, neither disk works in the other... and you have to plug it in seperately, too. More 'dorm room' than 'entertainment center.'

The fact is, I play games AND I watch movies, so I like the idea of a hi-def movie player in my device.

But this 360 solution?

It's very hob-cobbled together and may be for some of you, but not me. I'll just hold-off on HD-DVD in my 360, until the inevitable ships sometime in 2007-2008: an HD-DVD built in to the 360, like it should have been last year. I'll buy another one then, but not this bolt-on Franken-Solution.

Microsoft is backing 'HD-DVD,' so why not show your word is good, and put it in? Because it's the company that frequently proclaims partnerships and plans, and then backs out. They dissed OS/2, PlaysForSure™, and will likely do it again with Novell. (If you aren't familiar with what I'm talking about, step your google game up before rebutting my comment).

But back on topic: Nintendo. I've said it before: it's 2006, anything that can have a 120mm digital disk stuck in it should be able to play DVDs and audio cds, no excuses.

The Wii is going to be in children's bedrooms everywhere and should be able to play "Cars" or "Finding Nemo." It's an entertainment experience, it's a small box that could singlehandedy replace the old web-browsing computer and the DVD player in the kid's room, as well as clean up the TV area around adult's areas like mine. Nintendo wants it to be 'always on,' weather updates, messaging, gaming? Cool, make it play movies too.

Stop with the 'CHOICE' crap, though, will you fanboys? It's getting soooo old. You're likely 'choosing' to spend just as much money, but at different times and for more power adaptors and cables.

Just take the hit; these companies, including your favorite (insert your favorite company name here), make mistakes... So how is it you feel Sony is the only company to make mistakes? I come from a time where Sony was the exciting newcomer, and Nintendo was the sluggish giant that you guys would hate on.

My choice is to buy all three, like I always have. I like the games, not the company. This is an awesome year for gaming!

Sony Squad:

"Sony busting into someones home, kicking them in soft places, taking $600 out of their wallet and leaving a shiny PS3 as they climb into their black helicopters."

That would be so freaking cool, though...

Nmber 48:

Sorry, but DVD is A STANDART. DVD are very cheap. The drives are very cheap.
The XBOX360 has only a DVD drive because it is just meant to be a console and not to be a movie player! It is not there to replace a DVD player.
But if you choose to, you can also play the DVD you already HAVE, because it is the movie format standart right now, the play it, too. As an EXTRA.

It is the current largest standart disc format with no competitor. The Blue Ray vs. HD-DVD is not over yet, but Blue Ray seems to be loosing.
And Sony is therefore clearly trying to establish a user base of Blue Ray movie players to get movie studios to produce for their stupid propiritary, expensive format.

And where supposed to be paying for their wars!

And we all know now why there is a 20 GB hard drive even in the lowest model:
Because the BR-Drive is fu***** slow the games are pain to play without first "installing" them on the hard drive.
Thank you. Now all he advantage of Console gaming over PC gaming is gone.

The DVD (app. 9 gigs) will never be a disadvantage for the games during the new console's lifepans. Basta.

52: hillarious!

A problem I see is, Sony is going to include PS3 game consoles in their count of Blu-Ray players verses HD-DVD players. That'll let Sony claim their format is in the lead, even if it's not.

Oh for Christ's sake! Most people have a DVD player at home to start with.

"BUT IT DOESNT PLAY DVDZ LOL"

seriously, big whoop. ITS A GAME SYSTEM. NOT A FRIGGIN' MEDIA PLAYER. This is why the PSP flopped. It was a wanna-be Sidekick and Laptop and didnt focus on games. If thw Wii was intergrated with the HD-DVD or Bluray player it would cost a lot more.

Nintendo is just upset that they are in last place by a far margin.

They were the ones who did not want to go to optical media with N64... why force people into buying an expensive optical drive when cartridges are fine.

They were the ones who used a proprietary format for GC; why force people to use DVDs (developed by Toshiba) when they can use a nintendo disc.

Nintendo needs to shut the f*ck up and stop pretending that they know anything about gaming consoles. They have been irrelevant in the console scene for over a decade; they are in no position to tell others how to build a console... now, they own the handheld market, so, they can pout all they want there.

Gotta be honest, and I love Ninty (just as much as MS at the moment, but hey)...what he said there was quite a bit of a stab in the dark.

Whatever console has the most publisher support will (most of the time) win the console war in my opinion.
How does this relate too HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray? Well the same thing goes for most things in life. Blu-Ray has the most movie studio support overwhelmingly more support than HD-DVD. Therefore Blu-Ray should win the next-gen format war. Because Blu-Ray will have more movies available on their format. Therefore when the consumers can not find a movie on HD-DVD and they want HD Movies, they will look on Blu-Ray and more likely find it there. Plus thats not including the introduction of Blu-Ray with the Playstation 3. HD-DVD being cheaper might not help when there are millions of Playstation 3s out there introducing Blu-Ray on a much larger scale than the Xbox 360s HD-DVD add on will do. Thats the way I see it.

Wtf.. How is Sony NOT forcing us to buy a Blu-Ray drive? If you want a PS3, you have to get one. It would be fine and dandy if it wasn't hurting the consumer, but ask yourself, do you really think the PS3 would be 600 dollars if Blu-Ray wasn't included?

Why is everyone always talking about a 600$ machine , The ps3 is 499$ for the 20 gig with features equivalent of the 399$ X360 (20gig hdd, online ) so basically the BR player of the ps3 is 100$ that feels really cheap for me(at least 100$ less than the X360 with not having to pay for online) (I have an hdtv so I will defintively use the BR) I don't care if the PS3 is better at games than the 360 i think they are both pretty equivalent. I see the PS3 a a great multimedia machine that give me more for my bucks than the 360 similarly equipped) this is what the PS3 is. And for all of you talking about 256 meg of vram not enough, how much vram do you think the X360 has left after all the code, sound, ... is in its memory for Gears of war, 350 max if not less I think. DOn't think it can make a big difference in the texture that they can use. I have a 3 year ol PC with a 128meg radeon 9800 pro and oblivion was already great with my soooooo old gen video card(3years old)and PC, DOn't think we will see a big difference in video capacity between the 360 and the PS3, each gen the gap seems to diminish. If some X360 games please me I will also buy it but till now nothing has (don't like FPS and oblivion is on my PC)I will see when mass effect , blue dragon and lost odissey comes out.
To get back on the subject, yes it is a trojan but even if this is used only by a few games (like FF13 i'm pretty sure) BR will have had its usefulness. ANd I maintain that 100$ is a great value to have a Hi-def dvd movie player (how long did it take for the dvd player to come down in price, a long time before it was less than 99$)

Optimus needs to shut the fuck up and stop pretending that he knows anything about gaming consoles.

I don't understand this constant criticism of the Wii for not having a DVD player. There are lots of cheap DVD players out there. There are lots of nice DVD players out there. Pretty much all of them would be better than the Wii. It plays games. My DVD player plays movies. That works for me.

"do you really think the PS3 would be 600 dollars if Blu-Ray wasn't included?" No.

Now do you beleive that microsoft and nintendo are forcing us to buy their console?

Oh, Porsche 911, do you bother looking up anything before random, blind attacks?

First, to answer your question, I am not a Microsoft fanboy. I don't own an Xbox at all. I don't currently own an Xbox 360, nor do I foresee myself getting one in the next 6 months (at least) unless a whole raft of games I want suddenly start appearing on the system.

In short, if I was a Microsoft fanboy, I'd be the worst excuse for one in history.

As for my figure of $300, that's because I actually pay attention to investment reports. Here's one that was blogged about by Joystiq.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/02/18/playstation-3-estimated-to-cost-900-per-unit/

Note that this is not some fly-by-night company coming up with these numbers, but Merrill Lynch, one of the most knowledgeable investment firms in the world. So their numbers are fairly reliable.

Now, if you read the actual report listed there, the cost of the Blu-Ray player, per unit at wholesale/production, is approximately $300 more than the wholesale price of an individual DVD player. Now, if you assume that Sony could drop the price by $300 for saving $300 per unit during production (which admittedly might be a bit of a logical jump), then we'd be talking about $200-$300 PS3 units instead of the $500-$600 units actually going on sale.

So chew on that for a moment. If Sony was willing to take as much of a hit on profits with the theoretical DVD PS3 as the Blu-Ray PS3, then they could sell a top-of-the-line DVD PS3 for $300. If Sony did that, we wouldn't be discussing which console would be coming out on top. We'd be wondering if any company could ever overtake Sony.

To those who equate "bundling" of DVD playback on the Xbox 360 with the Blu-ray bundling on the PS/3, I would point out that the issue here for most of us is price. The DVD playback on the 360 didn't affect it's price. It's essentially a throw in. Whereas the PS/3 price was clearly driven by the inclusion of Blu-ray.

The comparisons to the later DVD-enabled Wii don't wash as I have a choice - buy a Wii now with no DVD playback (and no price impact). Or wait and get a DVD-enabled Wii (presumably for no price premium).

I'd have happily plunked for a $399 PS/3 with no Blu-ray movie playback ability. I don't have that choice. I want the games, not the Blu-ray movie playback "feature". And I don't want to pay for a feature I don't want. Easy.

I agree with that but as teh PS3 is a trojan to impose BR they are taking losses there . But in the end it is much more profitable to SONY to impose a future standard Hi-def format (due to br fees for 20 or so years) than the PS3 as the leader with a 80% market share instead of a 35-45 merket share for 5 years. I Sony succeed to impose BR as standard their royalties will come back in billions of dollars. They are making a gamble, we will see if it succeeds if not sony will probably be toast in the next 10 years.

Anyone see the immense Satire in this article? The writer actually said:
"You mean like forcing us to upgrade to a DVD-enhanced Wii if we decide we want to play DVDs?"

And then said:
"the word "forcing" being tossed around like an old football. There are no documented cases of Sony busting into someones home, kicking them in soft places, taking $600 out of their wallet and leaving a shiny PS3 as they climb into their black helicopters. Sony isn't forcing Blu-ray onto anyone; they're putting it into their home console."

Are you kidding me? Has Joystiq writers gotten that skewed?

@ #47
"Sony is forcing Blu-ray on us no more than Microsoft is forcing DVDs on us. That is the format they have chosen. Whether their arguments regarding them needing the extra space are true or not, that's the format that it is."

True. Whether if we buy Wii, PS3, or 360, there's definately their format forced on us. But it's the format that's forced on us that counts. Sony's BR may have higher capacity and allow HD content, but those of us who don't wanna pay for the higher cost associated with it shouldn't have to. Well, I guess you can argue in the end we don't have to. I suppose your suggestion would be to wait 3 years till BR dies out or becomes more mainstream. Either that'll induce a price drop.

We could go further and say auto makers were forcing us to use gasoline. If someone were to make a car that runs on jet fuel, would you want to pay the higher cost and inconvenience of finding it just b/c they 'choose' to use that type of fuel? If a store only sells Kosher approved cola which sells for at least x2 as much as standard cola since the Kosher approved stuff costs extra $$ for Rabbis to approve, would you be wiling to pay the extra $$ even tho you dont' need the Kosher thing?

Forcing = putting Blu-ray even when other would-be PS3 owners doesn't want it.

Your analogy of forcing to upgrade to DVD enabled Wii is flawed. You have a choice of getting it or not.

This article reeks bias and is unprofessional. Well done, Joystiq. You're becoming like Kotaku every day.

"You mean like forcing us to upgrade to a DVD-enhanced Wii if we decide we want to play DVDs?"


What, you'd like to be forced to buy it if you did NOT want to watch DVD's on it?

God. Joystiq's posts are becoming like Gamefaqs. The stupid is unbelievable.

Hey, Nice article. Very nice. You sure did your homework on this one. Yup, sounds like you know exactly what you are talking about. Very credible. Very unbiased. I can't believe Nintendo, releasing an optional DVD attatchment next year. How rude of them to be FORCING and OPTIONAL DVD attatchment onto us. Dang, I guess my DVD player is obsolete now because I'm being forced to buy this OPTIONAL DVD dongle. Thanks for warning me about Nintendo's greedy ways. Someone get this man a freaking joystiq-writer-of-the-month award.

@ackmondual

I think you prove my point exactly. Should we have to pay the higher price? No, and nobody is forcing you to.

Your points about the car and soda are good points. As long as there are substitutes, are you really forced into anything? You could buy a car that runs on gasoline rather than the jet fuel car. You could buy regular soda someplace else rather than the Kosher soda. You could buy another system if you don't want a PS3.

Sony isn't forcing Blu-ray on anybody, people are forcing it on themselves. People have this perceived need of a PS3. It's not a real need and thus, they aren't forced into anything. To those of you who talk about exclusive games and that is the reason to buy a PS3 (or 360 or Wii), what will happen if you don't play those games? Do you expect to wither up and die if you can't play Lair? Again, Sony isn't forcing Blu-ray on anybody, people are forcing it on themselves.

Ask yourselves if you would have done anything different if you were running Sony. If you say, "I would give gamers a choice of formats so that I wouldn't be forcing a specific format to unwanting customers," that's why you're still in high school and other people are running Sony (and Microsoft and Nintendo). Although it makes people mad, PS3 is going to sell out and all of a sudden, Sony has an installed base of Blu-ray users. This is one of the smartest things Sony has done with the PS3.

I can understand them saying PS3 forcing blu-ray on the customer... The customer is forced into a situation where they have to get blu-ray even if they don't want it.

The HD-DVD drive for the xbox 360 is different, though. Its an optional accessory.... Much like I guess could be said for the extra nunchuck accesories i've heard about a while back... Or even that other version of the wii being sold with a dvd.

I like Nintendo, but that was a bit of a stupid comment from 'em.

Wait...

Saying that Sony is forcing it on you because you don't want it? What if I didn't want the DVD player in my 360? I mean, I have a DVD player already, MS is just forcing it down my throat!! They could have published their games on CDs. The system could be $100 cheaper, right? I mean, look at all the games that came out on CD. With texture compression and adaptive generation, they can make the world up as you go along. Look at the processing power you have! And what's up with that Nintendo trying to force cartridges into my home when they designed the NES, N64, and Gamecube!! Don't even get me started on UMDs. Those were never designed with "a small format optical drive for portable devices" in mind. Where was I? Oh yeah, Nintendo... I don't want those silly cartridges, couldn't they use the old trusty cassette deck format I currently enjoy? Wait...no, cassettes are the devil. What am I saying here. 8-tracks, doh..I mean Vinyl. Damn confounded games need to come on Vinyl records. These damn companies trying to tell me what format to put my media on! How dare they evolve! My music sounds just fine on Vinyl, so the games must too!

-------------------

Ahem sorry, that's been building for some time...

Before you go about ranting up and down on these boards, take a step back and check out some of the games coming out in the near future. You'll be quite unhappy to see that 9G will NOT be enough. As a game developer (no lie), I can draw items on the screen using advanced algorithms and manual code based processes to do so, but guess what? Every time I do that, I take away part of the processing power that can be crunching numbers like AI, Physics, Animation, Game Scripts, etc. The Cell processor would tear through that process much faster then the 360 ever could. (again, you must trust me on this) Do you truly want to the 360 and PS3 to butt heads over raw data crunching power? I'm sure that can be arranged, though I don't think you'll like the results of that report. The precious 360 you place on your pedestal would quickly find another reason to slide into second place. Just keep cheering for your games and let it be, lest you be bitch slapped by the bad Karma your generating. Right now, from my perspective, a few games and XBL are the only thing keeping you in the race.

Extra disc space is what we crave! Gaming is not just about generating terrain and putting people on it. If you think that is the case, I urge you to never get into the game developing community. In fact, I'm going to include that little quesiton in my next interview session.

Every single one of you saying that games will not break the 4/9G barrier just take a step back, wait "almost exactly" 6 months, and check your local store shelves. I think you'll be very surprised.

I think you missed the point...
With Sony and Microsoft we have 2 formats striving for superiority in the movie market. If Blu-ray fails, then a $600 PS3 isn't going to be as useful as it would be if everyone was using Blu-ray disks.
The same goes for Microsoft and the HD-DVD.
Right now gamers have a possibility of wasting a lot of money.

"If Blu-ray fails, then a $600 PS3 isn't going to be as useful as it would be if everyone was using Blu-ray disks."

Suddenly the PS3 will lose the ability to play games off these discs if Blu-Ray doesn't dominate the market? That's like saying that the PSP games just stopped working when the movie companies decided it wasn't worth their time and money to press the discs.

Someone mentioned in one of these posts something about the unnecessary addition of multiple audio-language tracks-files in some PS3 game...

I'm actually happy for that move, if indeed, they did it. The English-speaking market get their dubbed games. Terrible dubbed for the most part, but dubbed in the end. The thing is, not every gamer in the world speaks or has to speak English, nor has to stick to an audio track when they could set the one they prefer instead. This problem is very noticeable in Latin America where we speak Spanish, Portuguese and French.

Many developers claim that the format used for the games won't allow them to include multiple audio tracks. But a more capable format would let them work for multiple markets, adding all the respective audio tracks or language files they have decided and release their games, worldwide. That's something European developers and gamers would love, for example. They wait months for many games that many times end up being better received over there (Japanese FFXII: March 2006 - European FFXII: Possible March 2007).

To reach a bigger audience worldwide, they need to break language barriers, and realize that a market should not wait longer than another. I guess a more capable format (Blu-ray or whatever) could do its part in this.

But maybe I'm the only one who thinks like this...

"Nintendo doesn't like next-gen optical discs"

And Ducks go kwack.


Remember Sony's last dvd gimic? The UMD. The Universal Media Disc. How long did UMD movies last? About as long as the Phantom.

If you're bitching at Sony for "forcing" Blu-Ray onto people, you should have been bitching at them for "forcing" DVDs on people with PS2.

If you want a PS3 without Blu-Ray, you can either buy one with Blu-Ray ($200-300 you don't want to spend), or none at all.

If you want a Wii with DVD, you can buy a one with DVD (perhaps an extra $100), one without DVD, or none at all.

Neither side forces you into anything in the literal sense, but Wii gives you an extra option.

" If you're bitching at Sony for "forcing" Blu-Ray onto people, you should have been bitching at them for "forcing" DVDs on people with PS2."

When the PS2 came out the DVD format had been out for quite some time and it was a proven format, in the case of Blue Ray it's not even remotely close because it's been out for what, months? and even so, how many people do you know of that own a blue ray movie player? the PS3's high production costs and delays have all been atributed to the BR format (by Sony themselves). Also, a BR disc costs a lot more money than a DVD.

If BR didn't cost more(hell, it could cost a litle bit more than DVDs), if it was readily available, if it was a somewhat proven format/had been out for at least 2 years and if it didn't cause any delays then I really wouldn't have a problem with it, if BR didn't take off as a movie format, big deal, but that's not the case, we have to pay a large premium for it(even if most of us don't want/need it) and have to deal with the PS3's delays because of it.

@Splinter

Naw, the Phantom never even existed! =P I'd put UMD's up there with... the NGage? Atleast both of THOSE sold fours of copies!

Come on people! Obviously you people who are complaining about Sony forcing the blu ray drive don't know anything about marketing. The purpose of course is to make money. I don't recall anyone complaining about Sony putting a DVD player in their PS2. Wasn't it more convenient for all of us to play games and watch movies on the same device. I was so happy when PS2 had a dvd payer because I didn't have to turn one off and switch to another device to play a movie or have to use another controller.

PS3 is no different. Sony knows that people who have the money to buy an HDTV are more likely to have the money to spend the $600 and these are the people who will start the market boom for Sony new format. PS3 is a luxury item not a toy like the Nintendo Wii. The people who complained about wanting to get a PS3 to play game and not watch movie?, then get the Xbox 360. The $600 price tag are for early adopter not for the price cautious people.

Some of you may not know, Sony also produce movies, so it make sense that they would market themselves to make their blu ray disk a standard. A lot of companies, not just Sony benefit from having a blu ray drive in the PS3.

How much does a stand alone blu ray or hd-dvd player cost? About $500 - $1000. Why not buy a PS3 and have a device that would play blu ray disk and play blu ray games. Did you know that HD-DVD player sold for $500 and was sold out, 10,000 units?

ZOMG Joystiq is such sony fanbois!!1

Just because Sony is not physically forcing Blu-ray to our homes does not mean that it is not forcing it in. The reason for that is that we can't buy a PS3 without a Blu-ray and save us a few bucks, its mandatory. If we want to play, there it is, blu-ray format, if we want to watch a movie... "Oh, so you got a Blu-ray movie player now? why not buy our overpriced HD movies" even though most of the public still does not own an HDTV!