This is old news. HDTV's are not good at displaying SD. They suck at it.

just to make a point, the PS3 does not ship with HD cables.

"Gamers haven't had the same problem with the Xbox 360 or PS3 because they ship with cables that support high-definition signals...."

No, gamers havn't had this problem with the PS3 because they arn't available yet, but they will because they DON'T ship with HD cables. Interesting for a console that is all about HD. You can only imagine how much worse PS3 games will look over composite than Wii...

This is the best part (ign link) ...

"Buy a shitty TV. No, seriously. With composite cables, Wii games will look a lot better on a standard definition television. Especially one that is under 32”. I may actually spend $250 at launch to buy a lesser TV just for the Wii. It sounds crazy, but if you saw the horror on screen that IGN witnessed Friday, you wouldn’t scoff at the idea of a Wii-dedicated shit TV."

I thought PS3's ship with only composite cables but is still able to use PS2's component cables.

I already plan on it. I've been using component cables with my PS2 for about a year now and about a month ago, my Monster cables died out (honestly a shit brand). I tried dealing with composite for about 2 minutes and immediately left the house and bought a new set of component cables.

The difference is undeniable. I may have been disappointed that Wii decided to low-ball it's resolution but at the very least it supports widescreen and 480p.

Ahh, the PS3 doesn't ship with component cables in the box. You have to buy them or a HDMI cable seperately. You should probably change that.

On a side note, I need a HDTV.

I have component for my Cube and dear God, does it look terrible on my TV without it. And fairly excellent about 10 feet back where my couch is. I definatly will be picking up component for Wii.

Is not having component cables the reason why Vladimir Cole has recently been posting articles complaining about the terrible graphics that Zelda TP for Wii has been producing? I imagine that Joystiq probably plays the Wii on a widescreen HD TV.

*Geoff: "You can only imagine how much worse PS3 games will look over composite than Wii..."

Why? My PS2 running on composite looks better than my Gamecube. On S-Video, there is no competition... the PS2 blows away the Gamecube entirely -- and my Gamecube S-Video cable isn't cheap.

No anti-aliasing, worse filtering, less texture memory... oh yeah, the Wii is going to be a real looker on composite.

With that said, Sony deserves to be shot for bundling a composite cable with the PS3. Every Internet video of the PS3 being unboxed shows the 60GB model, and they all come with composite cables. What, is even an S-Video plug too expensive?

Correction: The image of LCD/Plasma HDTVs look like shit with a SD signal. CRT HDTVs looks good. The big difference is with cabling. 480i with component on a HD CRT looks very good. Of course, 1080i looks even better. But not all HDTVs are LCD/Plasma.

Here's a question you guys might be able to help me out with. I tried posting this on the Nintendo boards...but as you can guess that got me nowhere.

Question:

So this summer I bought a 19" Gateway HD monitor (tinyurl.com/utlhf) at quite a good price. I would like to hook my Wii up to it when I get it. Any ideas on what would be best? I currently use a ViewSonic NextVision 6 (tinyurl.com/y4gjy7) to run my Xbox on the monitor, and it works somewhat well...but it could be better.

The best thing I could think of would be to try and find a component cable > DVI adaptor...but I'll admit I'm kinda in over my head here. Anyone have any suggestions? It would be nice to be able to run my Wii in widescreen on an HD monitor

Dang, no respect for DLP. On my md5880n, SD looks pretty good(HD is effing amazing); I'll admit not as good as a crt, but I don't think is as bad as they say in the article.

Also, the difference between DVI/HDMI and component cables is hardly noticable. I have both inputs available on my TV and outputs on my computer. The difference is very minor and you really have to look for it to notice it.

Good, available at launch. Have to pick those up. Luckily there's a Toys R Us, Best Buy, and Circuit City all in the same vicinity of where I am picking up my pre-order.

The GC looks so much better with Component, I can't game with composite. Hehe.

My tv has the component inputs but it isn't HDTV or supports 480p. Should I get the cables anyway? >.>'

@ Final Prototype

You do know that all Monster Products are covered by a lifetime warranty right? Meaning you could go exchange them at any B & M store that carries the same cables for no additional charge.

*The more you know*

Not all HDTV's produce a bad SD picture. I have a Mitsubishi HD from about 4 or 5 years ago, and regular cable looks great on it. I also sell electronics at Sears, and you can really tell a difference on TV's. On the smaller LCD's we just have regular cable running on them. Most of them look pretty bad, but the Sony and Sharp's look pretty damn good.

"Wii buyers with 480p-or-better TVs, be sure to budget those cables into your console purchase."

Will do! Thank you. :)

The "value" X-Box 360 comes with Composit too (69.99 CDN for the cable).

so none of the systems are safe... Run, Run away!

I'm more concerned if a HDMI->DVI adapter will work with the system, as my TV has DVI only.

There is almost no visual difference between HDMI or DVI (digital) and VGA or Component (analog) connections. Whomever passed this myth that a digital signal looks better was lying.

Digital is just a different scheme. The big difference is that digital is either working perfectly, or it's not working at all, while analog can degrade over long distances. If your cables are less than 25' long you shouldn't see any degradation of signal on analog, though.

Just because it's "digital" doesn't mean its better. Digital cable TV, for example, is noticeably worse than the analog over-the-air signal when it comes to HDTV due to the compression required of the digital transmission process. At some point, however, someone decided to use the word "digital" as a buzzword to indicate something was better than the old tech. This is not usually the case.

I guarantee that unless your screen is 60" or bigger or your cables are cheap and/or damaged, you will see NO DIFFERENCE between HDMI and component connections. It's the SAME AMOUNT OF INFORMATION; just transmitted in two different ways.

LCD always outputs progressive scan images no matter what you input.
HDMI is no better than component, DVI or VGA.
1080p is not a vast improvement over 720p unless your screen is ginormous.
720p is better than 1080i for video games and fast-action video.
HDCP most likely won't be implemented within the next two years.

Sigh. Nobody ever listens to me. . .

Regarding Monster cables...

Yes, they have a lifetime warranty. It requires that you keep your receipt, register with Monster, and return the cable TO MONSTER (not the store) and await approval of your exchange.

HOWEVER, for what you pay for Monster Cables, you could buy several non-branded cables and just keep backups around.

Monster Cables are a scam. There is no way to make copper wire any more conductive than it already is. There is really no way to shield a cable any better than you find in generic products. There is nothing special about gold connectors, save for the fact that they won't corrode or rust when exposed to moisture. Monster Cables are HUGE margin products for retailers, and when I worked FuncoLand, Game Power HQ, and Best Buy, we absolutely LOOOOVVVEED the suckers who bought Monster Cables.

They are NOT WORTH YOUR EXTRA CASH. There's nothing special or magical about them. They're just copper wire, shielding, plastic, and gold-plated connectors.

#10... you either need a new pair of glasses or you need to wipe off that fanboy muck covering your eyes. Did you HONESTLY say that your GC hooked up over s-video looks better than your PS2 hooked up over composite? HAHAHA. the cube pushes more polygons than the ps2. It has built in support for more effects than the ps2. it may have less memory, but it more than makes up for that in processing power and raw graphical ability. checks RE4 comparison... yup

20. I agree with you.
Oh, on a totally random note... everyone excited about how PS3 has native 1080p support, need to learn a bit about HDTVs. Very few TV's have a native resolution of 1920x1080(1080p/i resolution) most hit 1366x768 or just a bit better than 720p resolutions. So although you may tout this super hi-res gaming machine, your monitor may only be able to output a native resolution of around 720p quality.

ZeroCorpse, it would appear that no one ever listens to you because you have no idea what you are talking about. I'll adress these one by one.

Claim 1) There is no difference between HDMI/DVI and Component.
A) While this is true, in a sense, it misses the point. The point isn't which cable or method of transmission is better, but which deinterlacer and DAC. If the deinterlacer and DAC in your television are superior, feed them a digital, interlaced signal and get better results. If not, feed them analog and bypass your set's filtering. Also, regardless of HDCP's implementation date, only HDMI will be able to carry it. A person shopping for a new TV would do well to avoid DVI like the plague, as it is inferior in every way and superior in none.

Claim 2) LCD always outputs progressive scan images no matter what you input.
A) This is ludicrous. LCD is a display type, and has nothing to do with deinterlacing at all. By no means do all LCD monitors have a built in deinterlacer.

Claim 3) There is no way to make copper wire any more conductive than it already is.
A) Of course there is. Conductivity is dependent on resistance, inducatance, and capacitance. Many "out-of-the-box" cables aren't even consistently 75ohm impedence. Masters Theses are frequently written on transmission design (electron transmission), and cables get better at it all the time. A stranded cable has significantly more skin effect (electrons "jumping strands") than a solid core cable, but is also capable of transmitting higher voltages more effectively. All of these considerations are factored into better cables, and monster cables are generally better conductors than stock cables.

Claim 4)Monster Cables are HUGE margin products for retailers
A) Wait... that's totally true. Monster cables are like a 400% markup, and they're price fixed. You can definitely do better for cheaper. Try Bluejeanscable.com or even monoprice.com for some ideas of how understanding physics benefits your life.

Sony 3 at the price its selling for should include everything needed to give you the customor the best picture possible.

My HDTV has one set of component connections, one VGA and two sets of HDMI connections. The 360 is already plugged into the component.

So what am i supposed to do for the Wii? I'd love to plug it into the components - but thats a no go until Microsoft release a HDMI cable for the 360.

I dont want to constantly swap component cables depending on what im playing, and im not keen on splitters - the picture is never quite the same quality. And ive not heard good things about plugging into the VGA. Its a real pain cos ill have to just plug the Wii into RGB scart and have 480i.

Anyone else with this problem? What are you going to do?

'HDTVs look great with HD sources, but when playing analog signals, they look even worse than the analog TVs they replace. That's one of the dirty secrets of the HD upgrade; 480i games and broadcasts look weak.'

BUY A BETTER HDTV! Seriously, a clean SD signal (not comoposite, something like dsat via RGB) looks awesome on my 42" plasma TV. Buying some cheap shit LCD doesn't bring you into the realms of high definition.

Tyler,

1) DVI-D is HDMI minus audio. The video signal from both connections is identical (which is why you can find DVI to HDMI adapter plugs). HDCP signals can be sent over BOTH DVI and HDMI connections.

If you're interested in HDCP support, you're looking for a TV that supports HDCP, not a TV that has an HDMI connection -- an HDMI connection doesn't guarantee HDCP support.

2) LCDs are typically progressive scan displays. They have to do something with an interlaced signal before showing it on the screen. Now, they don't have to do anything SMART with the interlaced signal -- throwing away half of the data is an easy way to "cope" with the problem (and such a solution would, in fact, be easier than getting the display to show alternating fields -- which is why you don't see LCD panels that do that).

3) For digital cables all that matters is that all the 1s and 0s make it to the other side. Getting a bigger fatter wire between the source and your display isn't going to do jack.

mprobins-

1) That's certainly all true, and a good point. HDMI is not a guarantee of HDCP, but DVI is a guarantee against it. My point was simply that there is no facet of performance where DVI exceeds HDMI, but many facets where HDMI has the potential to come out ahead.

2) Definitely correct again. I was trying to point out that all LCD displays are not automatically calibrated to make SD signals "progressive" as that term connotes a higher-definition than SD.

3) True again. 3 for 3. However, HDMI cables are not simply copper conduits that get a signal from point A to B, like, say, an analog interconnect. An HDMI cable is a series of 19 switches and relays, all of which can easily fail if poorly made. Good quality interconnects, Monster included, are more than just "fat wires" with shiny tips. Monster is indeed overpriced and an easy margin for salespeople, but it is by and large legitimate technology, not simply markup. The proof is in non-commercial applications, like electron microscopy , that use principles analogous to what Monster uses to ensure that all their data arrives exactly as it is supposed to. It is easier to do this in a digital cable because it is just 1s and 0s, but it is a valid enough pursuit. That being said, please don't buy Monster's $130 HDMI cable. If you have the display to justify it (Runco 3chip DLP projector?) you aren't shopping anywhere that sells monster anyways. Just my two cents.

Heh, welcome to the world of SCART. Of course composite is inferior.

~Grauw

Ugh. I can hear the PS3 fanboys now... "Oh-Em-Gee. PS3 is gonna kick all ur azzes!! LOL! JUST WAIT UNTIL PS3 HIGH DEF GAMES COMEZ OUT!!!"

Seriously. Of all the people, I think PS3 fanboys are the worst.

Who cares? To each his own.

Actually dvi can support hdcp.

I cant tell you wich is better though because I dont have two tvs to test it out on.

My only hdtv in my room has only an hdmi port (one of the only crt tvs to have it hdmi i mean)

If your sdtv doesnt support 480p (like me), just buy an RGB SCART or if your american an S-Video cable. Youd be very surprised how much the picture quality increases. I PLAY DEAD RISING AND READ THE TEXT COMFORTABLY ON A 26 INCH SDTV! I assume most of the picture quality upgrade of 480p, comes more from the higher quality cables than from the picture being progressive.

"Correction: The image of LCD/Plasma HDTVs look like shit with a SD signal. CRT HDTVs looks good. The big difference is with cabling. 480i with component on a HD CRT looks very good. Of course, 1080i looks even better. But not all HDTVs are LCD/Plasma."

QFT. I have a 32" Sony CRT HD set and SD games look great on it, even connected with composite. They obviously look better over S-video and component, but the Wii will look just fine over the bundled cables on my set - until I get the component cables of course.

Now there's a PSA that deserves some prime time air!

Just to second a few previous posters: if your SD input on your HDTV looks that bad, you don't have a very good HDTV. Even after the all-digital cutoff passes, much TV content is still going to be SD, and syndicated shows that were recorded in SD are pretty much going to be SD forever, so you better have a TV that makes the best of what it's given -- that's why I got a 30" CRT (that, and 'cause I'm poor) that does excellent native upscaling (the LG 30FZ4D).

ALSO: Whoever asked if component cables on a non-HDTV are worth it, the answer is "sorta". I have a Panasonic 32" SDTV from the late 90s, with component inputs. I notice the difference in color depth on e.g. Pikmin 2 for GC or FFX for PS2 -- reds look redder, whites look whiter, etc., but my wife doesn't. Maybe some of it is placebo effect. My advice to you is to try and see if S-video looks better than composite to you. If it does, component will probably be about as big a step up from S-Video; if it doesn't, the same holds true.

I have a 32" 480i television, and I the difference between Composite, and Component is Night and Day. It's amazing how much of a difference it makes, even on a Non-HD TV.

Tyler,

1) As several other people have noted (and as I originally noted), DVI-D can carry an HDCP signal. Just search wikipedia for HDCP. Hell, you can probably find the information using MSN search ...

2) Progressive denotes only how a frame is displayed, not the resolution.

3) All the theory in the world doesn't mean jack when the real world difference is nil. The differences you're talking about with analog cables are below the threshold of human hearing, and with digital cables a 1 is still a 1 and a 0 is still a 0...

I want to say that the lag in picture quality only occurs on LCD, Plasma, or rear projection screens. i have a 34" CRT HDTV and every non-HD signal looks better on my tv than on a standard TV, not worse. I will be picking up the component cables anyway. it's was a nice boost on my game cube. (down side: my tv weighs 200lbs)

@ Tyler

My HDTV has HDCP through DVI, so saying thats its not possible is bull. however every component attached in the daisy chain needs to have HDCP too, so if you connect a dvi-hdmi connections, it probably wouln't work with HDCP.

@ lebowsky

I would assume the Wii will be just fine on your system. nintendo isn't pushing up the resolution and I would assume well over 95% of the population will be playing on a worse screen then you.

I have 3 tv's that I hook my my cube to regularily, my family 52inch HDTV, my 27" EDTV and a 27"SDTV. the quality is crap on the SD, good on the ED, and excelent on the HD, all using the the buncled RCA cables. on Mario Party 7, at the title screen before zooming in you cant read the text on the SD, hardly read it on the ED and can read it fine on the HD, and its just just a screen size thing.

progressive on a crappy tv is worse then rca on a good tv.

PS3 SHIPS WITH COMPSITE no COMPONENT if you want HD you need to be Component. Get your story straight!

Does the PS3 work with PS2 compenent cables? I heard somebody mention that, and made me very curious. Anyone know?

If my TV takes component cables but only claims to be FD or less will buying component cables be appropriate or a waste of money? In other words will buying component cables get me the best picture possible out of my Wii and TV or will it do nothing at all?