720p PS3 games downscale on older HD sets [update 1]
by Ross Miller 
{ Nov 15th 2006 at 8:53PM }
If you have a 1080i-capable television (that would be many older HD sets), you may be dismayed to learn that 720p PS3 titles will not upscale to fit the resolution. Instead, 720p titles will always be downsized to 480i or 480p. IGN confirmed this after testing four games -- Resistance: Fall of Man, NHL 2K7, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07, and Need for Speed Carbon -- on a 1080i set that did not support 720p; all scaled down to 480p.Take it as you will, whether you prefer 1080i or 480p. Microsoft's Xbox 360 currently upscales 720p to 1080i if necessary (i.e. 720p is not supported).
[Thanks, Kumar Shah and Miniboss]
[Update 1: Doing a little more research after reading many of the comments, turns out we might have been too generous in saying that most older HDTVs support 720p. We took out that sentence; just be sure to know what you set does and does not support. Also, rephrased the 480p vs. 1080i. I just tested the difference. Yeah, a bit different.]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Tim @ Nov 15th 2006 8:57PM
How does a TV support 1080i and not 720p?
Dr Pill @ Nov 15th 2006 9:02PM
My set supports 1080i and not 720p. Its a little weird, but I'm not especially worried about the PS3 downscaling to 480p, considering I won't be buying one for quite some time.
The1 @ Nov 15th 2006 9:03PM
Now this is utter crap. Sony is pissing me off because they say so much crap and do even less. The PS3 should have the power to render in 1080i.
Kumar Shah @ Nov 15th 2006 9:02PM
Older CRT HDTVs, only as old as 2-3 years, have only 1080i support as 720p was not yet around or not yet famous. This includes many of the older Sony CRT HDTVs.
These guys won't enjoy true HD.
Hopefully Sony releases a patch and fixes this.
angrytaxman @ Nov 15th 2006 9:04PM
Tim: Many older CRT (tube) TVs accept a 1080i signal, but not a 720p signal. My parents have one of the first HDTV sets available, the 32" Sony Wega XBR from about 2001, and it only accepts 1080i, no 720p inputs are available. That was quite the alienating move in Sony's part to make their console not support their older technology.
Lost_Canadian @ Nov 15th 2006 9:04PM
I disagree with that last statement. Most HD CRT sets don't support 720p, though all support 1080i. It's just the nature of the technology behind it. I have a 51" Toshiba CRT rear-projection - it's a whole 2 years old though, so obviously it must be obsolete. :P
icemorebutts @ Nov 15th 2006 9:04PM
The extra pixels from 1080i absolutly blow away 480p, screw preference it's true. I find this disguesting even though it might not be a problem for anybody.
Lettman @ Nov 15th 2006 9:05PM
Since we are on the subject - Does anyone know how the Blu-ray player in the PS3 compares to stand-alone Blu-ray players? (like Sony's BDP-S1)
Strike Man @ Nov 15th 2006 9:09PM
"However, this shouldn't be too much of a problem as most sets -- even the older ones -- support 720p."
Shouldn't be a problem for most HDTV sets...unless you have one of them. Which I do. So in other words, I can enjoy my 360 games at 1080i (upscaled from 720p), but my PS3 will output a video signal at the same resolution as my Wii? Lovely!
I'm not exactly thrilled that I already have a list of "features" that I feel that Sony NEEDS to address in future firmware updates...
Optimus Prime @ Nov 15th 2006 9:11PM
I've got a KDL40XBR2.. im all set for PS3.. suxs to be missin' 720p.
Art Guy @ Nov 15th 2006 9:13PM
This majorly sucks. My HDTV doesn't do 720p. Looks like I have to cross the PS3 off my list.
How could they have missed this? It doesn't seem like Sony can catch any breaks lately.
GhostBox @ Nov 15th 2006 9:12PM
However, this shouldn't be too much of a problem as most sets -- even the older ones -- support 720p.
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That's just not true. It's going to be a problem for alot of people.
T. White @ Nov 15th 2006 9:13PM
Damn, one more reason to wait to buy a PS3. I have a Panasonic 34"'er that I bought last year that only supports 1080i. I'm not sure on the validity of this, but I recall reading somewhere that the PS3 will only output 720p and 1080i over HDMI, so I'm curious as to if the PS3 will appropriate the image to the set resolution or not with HDMI...we'll see. Anywho, I hope they release a patch for this because after comparing Gears on my set at both 1080i and 480p, 1080i is a lifetime better than the latter.
Dave @ Nov 15th 2006 9:15PM
Yet another disappointing Sony PS3 issue. These guys are killing themselves with this new system. I'm not going to fault them for backwards compatibility, cause the 360 had issues, too. Eventually, this will get fixed. But, for those who end up only getting the $500 PS3 ($100 more than the kick ass 360 premium), there is no upgrade. There are some games that won't be fixed like Guitar Heroes since the guitar has no ports to plug into. And how about this $30 dollar add on to transfer your files from PS1 and PS2 to the PS3. Tip just to piss Sony off more: Buy it, transfer what ya need, then take it back! And the preloads that I've been hearing about. Games have to preload onto the Hard Drive so that they can load faster in the future. Okay, but, what about when a person has several games and their HD gets filled up just with preloads. Way to go Sony. Some SERIOUS!!! issues with production. What's next???
Pal @ Nov 15th 2006 9:15PM
Yep, I smell a firmware update!
Loi @ Nov 15th 2006 9:22PM
I'm not a huge fan of 1080i... but I'd probably take it over 480p.
Sony probably just bums progressive scan, something like this seems unlikely to not appear in a firmware update though.
Brian @ Nov 15th 2006 9:17PM
"Whether or not you prefer 1080i over 480p is personal preference as to whether you want more pixels or quicker refresh."
This just doesn't make sense. 480p can't hold a candle to 1080i. And as far as a "quicker refresh", 1080i refreshes the entire frame at 30fps or every other line at 60fps. you're not going to be able to tell the difference between the refresh on 480p and 1080i.
C. Taylor @ Nov 15th 2006 9:17PM
"However, this shouldn't be too much of a problem as most sets -- even the older ones -- support 720p."
That's wholly false. There are a plethora of rear projection CRTs that will not display 720p, my own included. Just go look at the 50"-60" HDTVs at Circuit City, and even today there are more than a few that don't support 720p. I can't believe nobody has mentioned this earlier, I would be LIVID if I spent 48 hours and 600 bucks to get a PS3 and only have it play in lousy 480p, when my year-old Xbox 360 displays 1080i like a champ.
ufwa @ Nov 15th 2006 9:18PM
Sony's BDP-S1 isn't not avaliable yet. Its been delayed several times. So no comparison between the blu-ray in the ps3 and it can be made. Someone I believe made a comparison between the ps3 and the samsung one but I could be wrong.
I'm waiting for a "joystiq hates sony" post.
Kumar Shah @ Nov 15th 2006 9:21PM
C. Taylor, Post 19 is absolutely right.
Megatron @ Nov 16th 2006 3:14AM
To put this in perspective:
All Mitsubishi HDTV's manufactured before 2004 do not accept a pure 720p signal, such as that from a PS3. None of them.
None.
Also, about 2% of all tube HDTV's before '04 accept 720p - which means 98% don't, including (the previously mentioned) Sony's own "XBR" product.
That is completely lazy (and inexcusable really) engineering. It's something so common that we assumed the PS3 would do it (upscale 720p to 1080i). Even the most die-hard of die-hard 360 fanboys would have never dreamed that Sony would be that lazy in their design.
Wow...
It's OK though...they're only alienating about 2 million people...no big deal, right?
Kitch @ Nov 15th 2006 9:28PM
Wow. Glad I just picked up my 360. 1080i vs 480p is NOT a matter of preference. They are WORLDS apart in visual appearance. I would be mad as heck if I had bought a PS3, brought it home, hooked it up to my 2.5 year old Mitsu 60" rear projection and got 480p. Ridiculous.
darksyde78 @ Nov 15th 2006 9:28PM
"Whether or not you prefer 1080i over 480p is personal preference as to whether you want more pixels or quicker refresh"
That is the worst comment I have heard from you guys in a LONG time. 1080i CRUSHES 480p know matter how you look at it. All tube hdtv's are native 1080i and they still have the best picture of any format!! For sony to overlook this is total crap. oh well.. I've got a sony VPL-VW50 projector so I'm ok but I'm still sticking with my 360. Sony really needs to fix this in thier next update.
peter @ Nov 15th 2006 9:25PM
"Whether or not you prefer 1080i over 480p is personal preference"
I think you mean '1080i over 720p'
I am also affected by this, having a Samsung CRT HDTV. :(
Chucky's Cat @ Nov 15th 2006 9:25PM
SONY forgot to tell the PS3 FANBOYS that it's true next gen gaming...only if you can afford it! Sorry guys, only grown men with good jobs will be able to afford it this time around.
dendo @ Nov 15th 2006 9:25PM
lolz my old 51" sony hdtv can do 720p
i guess you idiots need to learn to read the specs before buying a tv huh?
dsub @ Nov 16th 2006 9:02AM
once again.
fuck you sony.
I have a 30" panasonic tube HDTV, it's less than a year old, but it only accepts 1080i HD signals. With my 360, all 720p games are upscaled so there is no quality loss. I am now without a doubt selling my PS3 on eBay and am not buying another one to keep until sony fixes this bullshit issue.
Once again. Fuck you sony. You suck, so so so bad.
MS released the 360 a year ago and not only did it at least come with HD cables in the first place, it was able to upscale 720p games to 1080i from launch without a hiccup. You've had an entire year longer to workout any kinks with the PS3 and get it in tip-top shape for launch, but as time has passed, the PS3 just seems to be becoming more and more of a let down.
Remember when you said my PS3 would have a built in router and dual monitor HDMI support? What ever happend to waiting for the PS3 to play games in TrueHD 1080p resolutions? Now I find out that because I bought an HDTV less than a year ago that only supports 1080i I get to play games in 480p? No thanks. I'll wait until you lower the price on this piece of shit.
All sony has had to do over the past 6 months is convince people that the PS3 was WORTH a $600 investment. All they have done is convince people to wait, and this was the final straw.
BONESTOCK @ Nov 15th 2006 9:29PM
God....that's pretty Pathetic.
Yup...my 65" Mitsu won't be playing a PS3 system....well....ever. haha
vakerorokero @ Nov 15th 2006 9:36PM
Guess, that the problem with being an early adopter. Lots of people jumped to HDTV to fast to let the dust settle. Hope being a Playstation 3 early adopter doesn't makes you regret a couple years down the road. I'm waiting for a little Psthree. =)
delldude420 @ Nov 15th 2006 9:32PM
well they could just go wii60
Steven @ Nov 15th 2006 9:36PM
A firmware update better fix it. That's a pile of.... lol
Loi @ Nov 15th 2006 9:37PM
And miss out on MGS4?
God-damn it, why are my favourite franchises on all the f*cking consoles, I really can't afford to live like this...
Why couldn't I be a Magic:The Gathering nerd? That'd be far cheaper than a game/tech nerd.
Hong Cho @ Nov 15th 2006 9:38PM
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Whether or not you prefer 1080i over 480p is personal preference as to whether you want more pixels or quicker refresh.
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Let's see... PS3 should be powerful enough to do 30 fps (at least) in 1080i, right?
Then, let's see... if you run your Windows display (or Half Life 2 for that matter) resolution to 640x480 and compare that with 1368x1024 (I am using the closest 4:3 ratio numbers), it's a matter of a personal preference? Really?
Hong.
Crills @ Nov 15th 2006 9:40PM
my question is did these guys try changing the resolution of the ps3 to 1080i or did they let system automatic change to 480p because it didnt accept 720p. The OS had an option to manually change the resolution.
AK @ Nov 15th 2006 10:53PM
I guess sony was trying to keep this quiet, hoping noone would notice.
the_game_master @ Nov 15th 2006 9:41PM
My 30" CRT HDTV supports 480p/720p/1080i, its from Samsung and was made last year. TX-R3075WH
xx JPRacer xx @ Nov 15th 2006 9:44PM
@ dendo : "lolz my old 51" sony hdtv can do 720p"
If you happen to have a Sony KP-51WS510, a popular choice in the rear-projection CRT HDTV back then and the TV I have right now, sorry to say that but the set accepts a 720p signal but down-convert it to 480p internally.
Josh @ Nov 15th 2006 9:46PM
That is NOT personal preference. 720p and 1080i have relatively equal bandwidth and there is a valid "your preference" argument between them.
480p has less than 20% as many pixels than 1080i has (do the math, I'm right). There is no contest between a 1080i signal and a 480p signal. Even given the double refresh rate, there is less than 40% of the bandwidth of 1080i. These people are getting screwed.
Does the PS3's tech specs say it has support for 1080i? Because if it does, there is a class action suit that really needs to happen.
This should have every person it affects up in arms because it is a HUGE problem, not the blowoff side issue that Joystiq makes it seem.
majortom1981 @ Nov 15th 2006 9:56PM
They mean supporting input.
My toshiba crt is 1080i but supports 720p and converts it internally to 1080i.
Some older hdtvs dont convert it and upscale it so basically the ps3 wont upscale it either. wich makes no sense.
xx JPRacer xx @ Nov 15th 2006 9:49PM
BTW people, it's not because your CRT HDTV accepts a 720p signal that it automatically supports it. Most CRTs (direct view or rear-projection) will either down-convert it to 1080i (good) or to 480p (bad).
lolersticks @ Nov 15th 2006 9:56PM
My friend has a 61" Toshiba rear-projection HDTV, and it doesn't support 720. Looks like he (and I) won't be getting a PS3.
Epic @ Nov 15th 2006 9:56PM
I'm pretty sure TVs that are 1080i native internally convert 720p signals to 1080i. After all, ESPN and many other HD channels broadcast in 720p, while movie channels, some networks and Discovery HD Theater broadcast in 1080i.
the_game_master @ Nov 15th 2006 9:54PM
I just want to add that not all HDTV CRTs are 1080i native, or even 720p, to have that high resolution the tube has to be built with a fine dot-pitched phosphor to show that resolution, otherwise you will barely be able to recognize the image that is displayed. (case in point take a regular SDTV crt and output your PC through it and set the resolution as high as 1024x768, the picture it displays is hardly recognizable isn't it?), a HDTV with at least 1080i would not have a difficult time displaying that resolution clearly. -
Early TVs that did 1080i and not 720p is actually the fault of the manufacture that made the TV, producing products with features that were included based on demand that was needed at that time. Back in 2001-2003 there wasn't any need for 720p because most of the TV networks that carried HD signal were all 1080i (ABC, NBC, CBS), until FOX and UPN began broadcasting in 720p.
Varnu @ Nov 15th 2006 9:57PM
480p and 108i are DRAMATICALLY different. I have a 3-year old 56" Panasonic that looks awesome for 720p or 1080i broadcasts. 480p DVDs look OK, but seem like crap compared to ESPN HD. No one would ever, ever mistake a 480p picture for a 1080i or 720p picture. If you want to see the difference, set your monitor resolution to 800x600...look bad right? 480 is about twice as bad as that. I can't buy a PS3; it's broken for me!
Rockyhooper @ Nov 15th 2006 10:04PM
It's more like down scaling when you convert 720p to 1080i. Same about of data, interlacing just gets annoying. 1080p is the way to go. Too bad my 61" Samsung DLP, gen 7, puts bars around the Xbox 360 picture when I use the VGA cable in 1080p.
the_game_master @ Nov 16th 2006 9:46PM
Here's a test for those who are not sure if their HDTV does 480p, 720p, or 1080i.
Hopefully you have a HD Digital Cable converter box, access the display menu of your converter box and switch the resolution from its default setting between 380i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i.
If your HDTV will display on the other settings from the default setting set by the box, then your HDTV supports that resolution. Now use this to your advantage and look at each HD channel under one of the settings, compare ESPNHD 720p to NBC-HD 1080i, or iNHD 1080i to FOXHD 720p. I found that setting my cable box to 1080i made the picture much better for all channels than when I had set the box to 720p. I thinks its the higher resolution scale that 1080i offers that makes it look better, which brings me back to this Joystiq report of PS3 not doing 1080i seem to be the dumbest idea ever. Is Sony doing this to protect their Blu-ray movies, fearing 1080i broadcasts might make it too easy for content to get copied. I bet this is the case, this is why they decided to go with the HDMI jack on the 20GB PS3 instead of the component cable like they originally intended.
the_game_master @ Nov 16th 2006 9:42PM
haha i meant 480i, not 380i lol
The Man @ Nov 15th 2006 10:12PM
Yeah for hi-def starting here they missed the boat. No hd cables in the box, but this is bad news for the ps3.
Optimus Prime @ Nov 15th 2006 10:10PM
Something isnt right here. You are able to set the output resolution at the OS level; everything is output at that resolution.
In this case, they should set the output to 1080i to accommodate their Tvs; this is done at the OS level in the system settings. Then, games that are in 720p are rendered in 720p and upscaled internally and output as 1080i. This allows the TV to receive a constant 1080i signal.. even when the game boots up. This is the whole point of having an OS level resolution setting.
So, does booting a 720p game cause a change in the OS level resolution setting?
I dont know what the heck is going on.. there's more to it than what is being reported here.. and the fact that no other outlet have reported problems with their retail or test kits means that flags should go up.
Dux @ Nov 15th 2006 10:11PM
What is up with all these glitches in games now a days in the industry!? Call of Duty 3 online ,gears of War online glitch and now the PS3! 8,000 PS1 and PS2 games not backward compatible. 8,000. And now this?!