$65 a month? They should have sent 400,000 of them over a couple weeks ago to camp out and buy all the PS3s!

Yea, but usually the reason people take these jobs is because they are better than the other jobs around. What a lot of us "rich" people so condescendingly call sweat shops are often some of the higher paying jobs in the area. While it is true that we cringe at the conditions from our "lofty pearch", most people are just glad for the opportunity.

People always take the best job they can get, and when they work these jobs it is because it is the best they can get. Do we in the western world in our "infinite wisdom" have the right to dictate that "oh this job isn't good enough so we are going to take it away". Most of these gold farming farms are not the rich taking advantage of the poor, but the poor finding a nitch they can fill to get money from the rich.

EGM and a few other sources have had good interviews and stories done on these gold farms. It is pretty neat to see how differently they view things. Where we would see a cold cell with a matt, the interviewee was excited for the "high" pay and a roof over his head.

But hey, we are the wealthy and know what is best, so out of your sweat shop you! back to the mines. Enjoy dying of black lung.

I was going to write a comment about how these people are not exploited just working at a job that is better than the alternative. However Kish beat me to it. I agree with what kish said

If they are unskilled workers who live in non-urban provinces, they could be making a fairly hefty chunk of change. A low wage job might be enough to pay for a place to live and eat in the middle of nowhere, but not in a city. There are different standards of living around the world, you know, and not all workers are equally compensated due to differing costs of living.

But yeah, SWEATSHOPS SWEATSHOPS.

hrmm........... after watching that video, i'm rather torn about my opinion about gold/gil farmers, particularly of the chinese kind.

I used to play final fantasy xi (and still sort of do), and back in the day, we only had a few chinese gil farmers on our server. We knew who they were, they knew who they were, all they did was camp stroper chyme or leaping lizzy or valkurm emperor. that was pretty much it. Sure, there was some inflation, but its not like that would've never happened anyways. Infact, most of them were pretty friendly.

That was 2 years ago.

Nowadays, when someone talks about a gil seller or a gil buyer, there's such a negative connotation that gets attached to that term, that its not funny. Not only that, but its not just the chinese, but american players too. American players that are exploiting the game for fun and profit. Like WoW, FFXI's developers at SE took many measures to counter these issues, and many accounts have been banned or suspended. But every time this happens, the economy deflates. For some, its time for rejoice. For others, its disheartening as their investments in items of some kind crashes in resale value.

I think that ultimately, the common enemy is IGE, but I guess that in the end, you've just gotta look at yourself and make your own decision on how you want to look at it.

Game developing/publishing companies will obviously continue to strive against "gold" sellers, as it works against the original premise of how they planned for how the game works and for the presentation and enjoyability of the game for players, but there will always be someone taking advantage of a niche to make a profit, whether its for survival or just exploitation for fun and profit.

Personally, I think its all just too much. The biggest defense that MMO players have against people that call them addicted to "video games" or "the computer" is that they do infact have social interaction with other people. And they do, I'm not denying that. Infact, there's so much of it, that there's too much, I think. In the end, there's too much, like a small overcrowded town with ethnic backgrounds from all over the place, with conflicting beliefs, and the clustering of specific mindsets.

The word I'm look for here is drama.

Drama is what everyone always complains about once they're a few months or years into an MMO, and eventually, it drives them off. Its tiresome. Its annoying. And frankly, the drama that's going on is most likely between people that don't even know each other in real life.

The point that i'm trying to get at is this: MMO's are never good when there's too much drama that reaches climax too many times regarding things not just between two stupid people, but with third parties as well, in this case, being the issue of IGE, or more intimately, "gold" farmers.

Atleast, that's how i feel about it.

Ultimately, based on that video and what I know, there is no real right and wrong, as there are too many gray areas. We can on protest on what's good and bad about the issue of "gold" farmers, as its just a matter of perspective, as the video suggests. If people are farming gold to make a living in the real world, you could say to let them, but if it suddenly impacts your gameplay experience, and if there are enough people that complain to the developers, then actions are taken to impede their progress, and as the video suggests, they lose their job and sell the computer that was being used.

Its pointless to look at this issue and think of it as an ethics issue and try to find an ultimate answer or solution, because until world-wide poverty is no longer an issue, there is no right and wrong when it comes to these kinds of things.

I hope you enjoyed reading >.>;;

by the way:

I think i missed to mention my point during the paragraphs on drama. My point was that with all of these actions that are taken against gold farming accounts, that slowly, tolerance and enjoyability of the game will diminish, if not already, though that's a matter of opinion.

its not the farmers, so much as teh cheaters who buy the stuff. you should earn what you get in a virtual world just like everyone else...

Why are IQ's dropping all of a sudden? Is there actually people out there that thought that there was big money to made in these overseas gold farms by the actual farmers? Come on.

This is being blown entirely out of proportion. Cheating is cheating and exploiting in a game is still exploiting. We cannot hold ourselves to a double-standard and consider our thoughts fair or justified. All cheating must be stopped to keep online gaming communities enjoyable. This is however, a problem for the game developers and regulators who must deal with dropping subscription rates. Other then that, business is business, so don't complain.

What's wrong with gold farmers? They exist because people want them. If no one wanted shortcuts to 'gold' and items, then there would be no farmers to farm. It's kinda like potted plants: not all of us want to plant the seeds, so we buy the sprouts.

Do gold farmers get taken advantage of? Do fastfood workers get exploited? Of course the people who 'run' the operation make more than the workers in the mines. It's all a matter of perspective. Of course, if they are being forced to work or abused somehow.... that's different.

I personally don't buy from gold farmers. I'm already paying to play EVE, so I'm not going to sink more real money into the game. To me, the whole point of playing is to accumulate wealth (items and currency). If I bought in-game wealth, that would be like paying the money for a date, and then paying a guy to actually go on it. I could see circumstances when one would, but why would I pay if I didn't want to play?

Also, some of the people are part time workers. Seriously, get paid to play games? Gladly!

@2

You are seriously ignorant to the situation many of them live in. Yes, they're happy to have a job.. because without the job, they'd be homeless. Would you like to work in a factory 7 days a week with long hours and no benefits?

exploitation: an act that exploits or victimizes someone (treats them unfairly); "capitalistic exploitation of the working class"; "paying Blacks less and charging them more is a form of victimization"

It is not us in our "infinite wisdom" that proclaim these working conditions are inhumane. Paying children to work in sweat shops is not Americans sitting on a high horse and telling people how to treat their workers. Working employers and threatening to punish them or fire if them if they tell anyone what's really going is not a great way to live.

But hey, yeah.. some guy said he was happy to have the opportunity to work in a sweat shop gold farming so you take him at face value. Whatever helps you sleep at night man.

#12 Did you watch the video? They spawn kill the same enemy all day for gold. It's probably very low level too, so they know they can do it every time. No challenge, no moving, waiting. Wait for the creature to spawn, deal with it quickly and wait.

Amen number 2...you rule

Pssht. Again with the high horse. But of course anyone who disagree's with you is "ignorant of the situation". You admit it is better than other jobs in the area, and safer, and the quality of life up. They have a home where they'd be homeless, they have food where they would be starving. Ah, but it is better to take these jobs away because we wouldn't like to work there.

Of course I wouldn't like those jobs. Know what other jobs I wouldn't like? Fruit picking and other forms of field work. Just about anything making minimum wage. But for a lot of people American minimum wage would be fantastic. It isn't fair, maybe it isn't right, but it is true. You cannot sacrifice real people's lives and jobs for your ideal. You have to deal with the reality of the situation, and help from there.

Most are not threatened or coerced, though with our lifestyle we think they must be.

Now this isn't saying that we have no responsibility and should ignore the plight of others as you are implying. But closing down peoples jobs is definitely not the answer. Boycotting products hurts these people a lot more than it helps. Getting these "horrible sweatshops" shut down hurts many and helps none. Growing the markets and helping stable successful businesses develop will do a lot more for these people than getting rid of their jobs. Use the vast riches you are surrounded with to help instead of complain, make documentaries, and put people out of jobs. Deal with and help the situation instead of complaining about it. If you live in a first world country you are surrounded by wealth you don't even realize, and should probably take some responsibility for it, grow it, use it to help people, instead of just complaining about things.

well said kish.
also i should say that actually living in a place like china (as i have for the past year) definitely provides a new perspective on the old "f-king chinese gold farmers" issue.

Personally I've never purchased gold or items before because I get more enjoyment finding my items while actually playing games.

That being said, I look at people who buy gold and stuff to really be no different than people who use cheat codes and walkthrus to complete a game. Some people pay extra to buy gold and armor, others choose to buy a strategy guide.

Something for everyone to keep in mind: China has 1.3 billion people and has an unemployment rate of 9.8%. There's plenty of jobs out there, but most require not only a good education, but also that you be smarter than everybody else applying for that same job. Obviously, not everyone can be that smart, so you're left with a big group of people who don't have the education to get a job at all.

From personal experience talking to both farmers directly and from talking to relatives, I've seen that most farmers are either high school dropouts or people who live in poorer areas in China. That 500 RMB quote is a bit low, from what the farmers tell me, they usually earn around 700-1000 a month, which is enough to supplement a family's income. However, people living in the bigger cities on the easy coast earn A LOT more than that. 1000 a month might be enough to live in a rural area but in the city, that's less than a week's worth of wage.

Another thing to keep in mind: often, those of us who live in America view things in a very biased way, comparing other country's income to our own income. You have to remember that in China, everything is cheap and there's no taxes to pay. So although we can't even live for a week with only $125 US, someone in China could afford to rent a small apartment and buy food for themselves for a month on 1000 RMB.

Lastly, I compare 'sweatshops' in China to fast food joints here. Personally, I don't see much of a difference between the two, just that one is providing a service that everyone wants, and the other is providing a service that some people don't want.

HA! So I was right about Chinese Gold Farmers.