PS3 and homebrew; PSP all over again?

This is a ridiculous topic. Who would go and spend $600 for a system just to play ROMs on it? No one would. That's what a PC is for. The PSP is different because it was portable. That's something you don't get with a PC.

If Sony's PS3 doesn't sell software because gamers are too busy with NES ROMs, I will be shocked. This is a feature, and a major selling point for the console. Why does Joystiq cast this as a negative?

The psp's homebrew eventually got to pirated psp roms. I'm pretty sure that is where this article is going.

This isn't ridiculous. You can get the whole SNES, NES, Genesis, and N64 library on the PS3 without being banned from content like XBOXLIVE does. And yeah, you can do it on your computer but it would be much better playing it on a television with a controller. Not every person has the rig to set their computer up to a television and not everyone has a gamepad. If you ask me though, emulation is wrong but right in this case since it might lead to headaches for Sony!

At least they won't lose money continuously on those people like they will on every user that takes their PS3 online.

Well, it's always got Blu-ray, and that worked out great for the PSP and UMDs, right?

Right?

Yeah, seriously. It's not much of a topic. People bought a PS3 for PS3 games. homebrew will be a diversion at best.

People are paying $5 to play 20 year old NES games when they can be had for free and played on emulators with more functionality. Heck there are website that allow you to play those games; i suspect Nintendo's Opera filters will block you from those sites.

In short, the modding or hacking presence will always be present; but, this small group is more likely to add to the primary install base which are largely ignorant of such 'features'.

Buuuutttt....The PS3 is a computer, right? Thats what Sony said, right? What's the problem? They knew the risks but decided it would be better than paying some taxes and other fees from calling it other than a PC. So I hope they would leave it with these abilities but most likely it will be updated thru DVDs like the PSP and UMDs, thus leaving the 1337 people to do these type of hax and leaing me out of the loop. :(

Gotta love it. People spending $600 on a Sony system to play Nintendo games.

Way to over dramatize Joystiq. I understand that homebrew is something that a fair portion of Joystiq readers do, but that niche is hardly a significant portion of the mass consumers that will be buying the PS3 over the coming years. I really get tired of reading all these articles that imply joystiq readers' opinions, habits, etc. is exactly the same as what the hundred million people who buy a system will have. Take all the anti-Sony hype on this website over this year...did that stop people from lining up in droves this weekend for the chance at a PS3?

I don't see how homebrew is going to cut into sales. We're talking a tiny, tiny number of people who'll buy a PS3 and NEVER buy games or other things for it.

Anyway Sony should be applauded. Pirates and homebrewers can now be separated into distinct groups. The problem with the PSP was a lot of people were lamely claiming they were hacking the PSP to run homebrew apps when they were actually just pirating the games. Now Sony can fairly turn around and say the PS3 officially supports homebrew via Linux and still keep copy protections that stop piracy.

It's certainly a damned sight more open than any other console.

"While we only see a brief flash of SMB followed by some Linux command lines -- which could very well be faked -- this video could show where the PS3 is heading."

That's not a fake. The linux bootloader is out and Fedora Core 5 reportedly runs fine with it. Almost any emulator that doesn't require DirectX by default is available for Linux, and to tell the truth, that was my first thought when I heard about linux-compatibility was "Media Center + Emulation without modding, nice!". On second thought, transcoding movies and compiling C-code with the horsepower of the cell behind it should prove worthwhile as well.

So, this time Sony seems to be eager to establish the PS3 as a PC, which will definetly be problematic. If it wouldn't be for the lack of RAM, a cluster of PS3s for distributed computing for 500USD a piece would be the wet dream of any administrator. And at a loss of more than 300 USD per piece that might actually hurt the already shaken financial profile of Sony.

Btw. sorry for my eventually broken english. Germany speaking - usually only browsing the comments, not posting.

Those aren't games running on PS3, they are games running on linux which the PS3 happens to allow you to install. So you can basically run anything that linux can run on powerpc.

If you can have the system boot from a CD directly with the install OS option people could if they wanted make CDs that start linux and then boot into whatever program they want if the linux on the CD is hacked up like that.

None of this makes me want to put down the cash for a ps3 though cause if I wanted to have a powerpc computer on my tv I could just plug in my apple laptop.

This article is beyond most of your heads unlike us intellects.. just kidding calm down. what they probably are saying is that bootlegged games could follow if its this easy to get titles like mario bros and older titles that companies are trying to make money on. Pirated software like resistance could follow and since 90% of most gmaes are fmv video anyway the files wont be larger than xbox 360 games.

if sony didnt see this comming, there nuts .
how they hope to turn a profit , selling the system at a loss , and giving way to copied games and homebrew .
yeah sony may win the console hardware race like this , getting a bluray player into lots of homes(who care's anyway? digital distribution is the next winner).
they are gonna be shafted when it comes time to collect on software sales. this thing is going to get hacked more than the old xbox.

Hey, Joystiq, can you pump the Wii a little more? I see no lines at my local stores this morning.
It seems more pumping will required to sell that fancy remote.

This is not hacked.

http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html

neat.

Very few people even know about homebrews, let alone would actually use them. Joystiq continues to impress....depress....just press.

From the post:
"on his nexst-gen console "

What is nexst-gen? Might wanna fix that joystiq ;)

Yeah, the folks buying the PS3 for the latest roster update on Madden aren't going to care or know about the PS3's homebrew capabilities.

The video is real.

A few words on the PS3 Linux- the point of the PS3's Linux ability is to let advanced users mess around and hopefully create games in the future that Sony can distribute online. An idea which Microsoft are also using in their XNA Game Studio express software product.

It is also based on the PS2 Linux idea; in other words, this is nothing new.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ps2_linux
Whilst Sony won't be too pleased that people are using the PS3 to emulate things, they also won't be too alarmed. The Linux kit only has limited access to the RSX, so the rendering of 3D games isn't really achievable, so don't expect to see working downloadable Resistance ROMs anytime soon, or Gran Turismo ROMs. If you want new games with High Def 3D graphics for your PS3 you're still going to need to buy them.

My hope is that eventually this kind of Linux fiddling will allow PS3 users to create a full on home entertainment set-up with an improved media player and wider format support as well as leading to more user created content.

Its not a fake. There are NES, SNES, genesis, ect emulators on linux and you can put linux on a ps3. Its only a matter of time before you'll be playing pirated ps3 games right off the internal harddrive, possibly without a mod chip. Woot!!!

heh, at this rate, within six months someone will release a DVD ISO with all nes, snes, sms, genesis, gameboy, and gameboyadvance games EVER, bundled with the linux emulators, ready for PS3 use.

I really doubt that pirated PS3 games will appear soon, simply due to the fact that Blu-Ray ISOs are feckin' huge. The burnable media is also insanely expensive.

I really do think homebrew for emulators on the PS3 is a great idea. All we need is better access to the sound hardware. :)

this might make me get a PS3
its so sweet

And BTW, people don't buy the PS3 for ROMS.
They buy it with the neat addition of playing ROMS.

I bet within months, not year, of PS3 being released in China and Southeast Asia, the games have been been pirated already. it happened within 3 months for PS2 and on the release date for PS1. even the oh-so exclusive gamecube discs were pirated.

cant wait to buy these pirate games. for less than a dollar a game. i love pirates..

Just to be absolutely clear: this is a feature of the PS3. It was built in to the console and is even supported as an option in the menu (from what I understand, there is an "other OS" menu item somewhere, though I haven't personally seen it).

Sony is being very open with the PS3 - it is region free (now confirmed) and it supports Linux as a built-in feature. You guys should be touting this for the positive news it is, not a negative.

> Sony made it a feature to be able to use the PS3 for whatever you want

sony allows much less than you may think. linux is runing from a "hypervisor" and there is no direct access to the 3D hardware. this will allow simple things (like NES emulation) but it imposes strong limitations to the things you can do with the machine.

Check out that TV! And composite cables! We're moving on up through the 20th century here!

@21: GPU and graphic acceleration is not available to PS3 applications running in the "Other OS" mode (ie Linux). Also, applications not written specifically for Cell get to use only the PPU (one of the nine cores of Cell). So the PS3 is quite a lousy Linux gaming machine :p

Although being able to develop for Cell on a relatively inexpensive computer sure is neat :p

One aspect nobody is considering:

Modding PS3 games to cheat online with. Wait until Resistance is as fubared as Halo 2 was before MS and Bungie started banning modded boxes.

$10 Nintendo sends a cease and desist to Sony until they can guarantee that the PS3 can't pirate their licensed software without consent. This is why we can't have good things.

I'm sure lawyers will find a way to twist it around saying that Sony deliberately included the system to be open ended for emulators to run and take sales away from the Wii online store. They always find a way.

"linux is runing from a "hypervisor" and there is no direct access to the 3D hardware. "

This is likely true, however that doesn't mean that PS3 Linux is completely hung out to dry. There is after all 6 cell SPU processors which could be put to work underneath the covers of Mesa and other libraries. I expect in time you'll see a version of Linux for the PS3 which offers pretty acceptable 3D performance.

It'll never offer the ability to run pirate PS3 software. Anyone who thinks that is living in cloud cuckoo land. However, it would be powerful enough to run SNES / Nintendo64 / Sega / Arcade / Atari / Amiga / ZX Spectrum / DOS / Mac (PPC & 68k). It might even be able to emulate XBox & Gamecube titles.

So this basically makes Nintendo's Virtual Console obsolete.

LordMinogue (31): You cannot run Linux applications while you run games, and you cannot mod an applications as you usually would on Windows or on another platform without the guards that the PS3 has, sorry.

The dude in the video has two Xbox 360s.

Fool!

Sony wouldn't make any profit if he used a legit compy os SMB!

I think you forgot the "video game" part in "Video Game Journalist".

"Check out that TV! And composite cables! We're moving on up through the 20th century here!"

The composite cables are running from my sega saturn actually, dee dee dee @ you.

Joystiq editor, please read The Cathedral and The Bazaar. All console manufacturers are losing money on each console. But Sony has introduced the possibility of capitalizing on innovations that others will develop exclusively on the PS3, all at little or no cost to Sony.

That's a rather shaky analysis of the situation, don't you think? Sony claimed from the beginning that they wanted the Playstation 3 to be an open format. They wanted to give people the option to run operating systems like Linux on the PS3, and I doubt Sony cares what people decide to do from there as long as they're not pirating Playstation 3 games.

JR

DrXm, who's dreaming? Playing GameCube games on a PS3?! Every console has been hacked and pirated and the PS3 will be no exception. Wether a way will be found through hacking Linux or if a mod chip will be necessary is yet to be seen. But there are some very smart people out there that will be more than determined.

Marc, Nintendo doesn't sell their consoles at a loss. Also, each system right now has possibilities of easy homebrew. Microsoft has XBLA and their XNA easy development tool. While Nintendo and Sony will probably follow suit with their virtual features.

"I really doubt that pirated PS3 games will appear soon, simply due to the fact that Blu-Ray ISOs are feckin' huge."

Yes, a full blu ray disc is huge - however, most ps3 games out right now are only using about 9 gigs worth of space (with the exception of resistance). Furthermore, seeing as how Sony was kind enough to let people swap out the hard drive, size will not be a factor. The only thing stopping pirates is copy protection... and that's only a matter of time. The fact is no console will be free from piracy, but if they're providing games worth paying for, most people will buy them. The pirates will become the minority in the long run.

I think Sony won't suffer too much for this sort of thing. The big thing is for Sony to sell 10, 20 million PS3's so the cost of production comes down and the market for both PS3 games and Blu-Ray discs goes up.

If Sony wins the next-gen video disc war, they'll profit enough to make up for the small fraction of PS3 owners who don't buy games for it.

I'm sure that if Sony can go to the industry and say, 'hey, 20 million units, b****es', they'll do just fine.

1337 hacking people rejoice, let's crack the RSX wide open and develop an open source driver for it.
After that, DC and N64 emulation ftw!

I think Justin Murray's point is that this may distract PS3 owners from buying games and bluray movies if the homebrew ends up taking off like it did with PSP.

The PSP is not a successful machine for Sony. Each one is sold at a loss and the money doesn't seem to be recovered from software and UMD sales. It is obviously a stretch to say that a large part of this was caused by homebrew. But, it definitely WAS a contributing factor. Think about it. The hardcore gaming community is the only group that even knows about homebrew, BUT it is exactly this group that makes money for gaming companies like Sony. It is the hardcore who actually buy games other than Madden; it is the hardcore who end up purchasing ten games a year or more. I'd say every hardcore gamer is worth AT LEAST 5 casual gamers, simply by the number of games each type of gamer typically buys (obviously thats just my estimation though). So, if even a SMALL portion of those hardcore gamers discover the wonders of homebrew, that is a lot of potential sales right down the crapper.

Obviously PSP also has low software sales simply because there is (arguably) not enough good software out there, but I also think it has something to do with homebrew.

I also think one of the reasons why GameCube made a lot of money despite being third in overall sales was that it was a bitch to pirate. Even the most hardcore of the hardcore have trouble setting up the system for pirated games. That means there were more hardcore gamers actually PURCHASING games for the system, while they just pirated games for the XBox and PS2 (I've seen it first-hand too).

Sony's business strategy just doesn't make sense to me. Their focus should be ENTIRELY on the games and the Bluray (since that is where the money is made), and not even THINK about these little distracting extras like Linux, which may make it easier to pirate or develop (free) homebrew games on. This kind of thing distracts gamers from actually buying games and movies for the system, as it did with PSP.

Microsoft's strategy makes a bit more sense to me. Sure, they are trying an all-in-wonder machine like the PS3, but MS has very strict control over everything, and almost all the little extras cost you money (not saying I LIKE it, I'm just saying it makes sense to me from a business perspective). Usually there are free trials, such as with Arcade Games, but the ultimate purpose is to get lots of money from lots of little things that costs MS very little money to make in the first place (gamer pictures, themes, etc.).

If Sony can copycat MS's strategy, which they at least seem to be TRYING to do with the Sony Online Store, then they could potentially make loads of money off microtransactions and expensive accessories.

But one thing that still remains a mystery to me, and this is the case for both Sony and Nintendo, is why place a web browser in a video game console? I mean, from a business perspective it makes no sense. The internet can be the biggest waste of time in the world. People can leak endless hours into the internet. This makes no sense to put in a game machine, because this will only distract gamers from actually buying games and (in Sony's case) movies.

Though ultimately Nintendo's strategy makes more sense to me. They are selling the console at a profit from the get-go, so even if casual gamers ONLY purchase it for Wii Sports, then they still make some cash. Reducing expensive technology has allowed them to produce more units for launch (even though that still hasn't been enough obviously). And, their focus is on the games. VC games will make them a truckload of cash, as did the NES catridges for the GBA did. And, since the games won't require super-awesome graphics, they can save money on development costs and churn out games even faster.

We won't know for a while who the victor will be in the coming generation, but if I had to bet my money on who will be the most profitable, I'd wager my dollars on Nintendo.

Hmm, I seem to have drifted waaaaaaay off topic. Oh well.

If you can't play Super Mario on it, it's not that super of a supercomputer.

Here's to homebrew. I hope Sony doesn't ruin things.

Brad Lee hit it right on the nose. Sony is in a precarious situation where they need to squeeze as much money they can from software sales. Because the bulk of sales go to hardcore gamers, offering diversions hardcore gamers would use that don't generate income is a bad idea. If one gamer is using his PS3 to play thousands of NES, SNES, Genesis, etc games that means another gamer will have to make up for that loss of income. An estimated $240 is a lot of software, and if another gamer has to pick up the slack, a profit on that unit may never materialize.

The decision to make the PS3 a virtual PC means Sony has little leway in dropping prices down the line. If Sony isn't making the money back on software royalties, they will have to make them back on hardware profits. This means those decreases in construction costs won't translate into a decrease in sticker price, ultimately damaging Sony's ability to mass-market the PS3.

"If the PS3 turns out to be like the PSP (a machine some use mainly for homebrew programs), Sony is going to have a hard time making the PS3 a profitable venture; they aren't going to make a penny if someone is playing a pirated copy of an NES game."

Thanks for the editorial, but I don't think your premise necessarily leads to that conclusion.

Most people that play homebrew on the PSP don't stick to emulators for too long. They venture into the ISO scene and get into the newer games...this is what will happen on the PS3, 360, and Wii (especially since it's on regular DVDs now, it'll be much easier to pirate).

We had Linux on Dreamcast. Nothing new, right?

How much does Sony make licensing blu-ray? The pirates would be paying Sony to pirate the media, so Sony wins something, right?