Wii ennui from Slate: "Nintendon't" [update 1]
The New York Times dissed the PlayStation 3, and now Slate has dissed the Wii. What is this world coming to?
Highlights from Erik Sofge's "The Case against the Wii":
- Like many of us (self included), Erik "was in love" with the Wii before he'd ever laid a hand on it. You won't be able to pin the hater tail on him, because he was predisposed to want to like the console after "months of giddy anticipation."
- "The Nintendo pointer felt less accurate than even the light guns used in antique games like Duck Hunt. Every time I sighted down the controller at the TV, the crosshairs were off-center. This inaccuracy becomes a mini-game of its own: In order to kill the guy on the left, you need to aim left and slightly down."
- "... for the most part, the Wii compensates for its lousy motion detection by coddling users."
- "The Wii Remote is the most advanced motion-sensing device in the history of gaming, but in the interests of accommodating almost unlimited variables, from the size of the TV to the player's physical proportions, the Wii tosses out much of the data that are collected."
- "For a console that wants to start a revolution, making users doubt their reflexes is a serious design flaw. By playing fast and loose with motion detection, the Wii swings wildly between deal-breaking frustration and hollow victories."
You may now proceed to shoot the messenger...
[Update 1: It's worth mentioning that another Slate author posted a somewhat more favorable review of the Wii here. Thanks for pointing that out, NothingShocking.]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Raynre @ Nov 21st 2006 1:20AM
That's because you dont aim AT THE FRIGGIN TV!! Do these people even understand the fundamentals of how these consoles work before spouting off crap like this?
gameclu @ Nov 21st 2006 1:20AM
I guess I had the opposite reaction. It works better than I thought it was going to. Even got a 192 the first game I bowled. Gesture based gaming feels natural and intuitive. But hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Clay @ Nov 21st 2006 1:20AM
OH MY GAWD JoyStix you guys are like totally anti nintendo you sony FANBOYS! you might as well be like...
M$Stiq!!!!
keke you nubs!
Aidan @ Nov 21st 2006 1:22AM
What a utter retard. It's not supposed to be a bloody light gun, you're not supposed to aim at the screen!
horatio @ Nov 21st 2006 1:24AM
You fanboys are SOOOO predictable.
The lightgun was INTUITIVE because you aim at the thing you're shooting at. That's the very definition of "to aim."
The Wii fails at intuitive interface design. In what world is it intuitive to aim AWAY from your target in order to hit a target?
The Slate article has nailed a fundamental flaw of this console.
the mole @ Nov 21st 2006 1:26AM
here's my experience with the wii:
i don't try to aim at the screen, i don't try to do anything...i just do it, and it works...that's all i know.
Optimus Prime @ Nov 21st 2006 1:26AM
Its not suppose to be a light gun? All the ads show people pointing at the screen with their on screen widgets doing the same (ala RedSteel and Metroid).. what are people suppose to think.
And, this makes the light gun attachment more interesting; its a light gun, but, not really.. where you aim isnt were the on screen cursor is.
And, where that RedSteel metareview? I need a good laugh.
Jebus @ Nov 21st 2006 1:27AM
You don't aim at the screen? What do you do for games like Red Steel? And how does the pointer work in Zelda?
NothingShocking @ Nov 21st 2006 1:28AM
I'd just like to point out that Slate also posted a Pro Wii piece about an hour after that one.
http://www.slate.com/id/2154158/
mietha CAG @ Nov 21st 2006 1:29AM
With Red Steel being the steaming pile of dog poo that it is, any interest I had in the console pretty much went out the window. I'd be interested in Metal Slug A., but you have to play with the POS Wii-mote, so I'll pass.
EihBeir @ Nov 21st 2006 1:29AM
There's a guy on a street corner who hates Nintendo, two blocks south of my place. Better go interview him and call it news, Vlad.
? @ Nov 21st 2006 1:29AM
Dead on Arrival. What a idiotic fanboy. This isn't even fair game to respond to these statements.
Avinash_Tyagi @ Nov 21st 2006 1:30AM
The Wiimote is not a pointer, its more like a 3D mouse
Dan @ Nov 21st 2006 1:32AM
I'll say that although I'm enjoying the Wii in general, I'm disappointed that there's no way to calibrate the wiimote positioning. While I the system works without having the cursor match where you are pointing, it'd be nice if they'd give you a way to set it up so it does.
Anthony @ Nov 21st 2006 1:34AM
I love Nintendo faithful. We defend to death our console of choice, even with it's undeniable flaws.
Oh well. I haven't had a chance to play a PS3 yet, but I love my Wii without question.
It does however sound like he played the system for roughly 15 minutes before he wrote that. Because seriously, I just got the Bow in Zelda, and that has got to be the coolest way to aim a "gun" or ranged weapon ever. I'm thinking about running down and picking up Red Steel to give it a try now.
Infil @ Nov 21st 2006 1:34AM
"The lightgun was INTUITIVE because you aim at the thing you're shooting at. That's the very definition of "to aim.""
There's also a thing called a mouse, on a PC. You know, the thing that you use to "aim" your gun in Half-Life. Are you physically aiming your mouse at the screen? No.
The Wii succeeds because it is a relative pointer, not an absolute pointer. You don't need to face the screen directly on. You don't need to even be aiming at the screen to make it work (though, you can set it up so that it emulates a light gun fairly closely).
People are entitled to their opinions, even if those opinions are based on ignorance. I suppose the Wii "coddles users" by telling them about the relativity thing, eh?
If he doesn't want to play Wii, he doesn't have to. I'm sure if he takes it back, someone else will be more than willing to snap it up.
Richard @ Nov 21st 2006 1:35AM
it sounds like he's just mad because he's really really bad at it and can't get used to the wiimote.. give it awhile, you get better..
horatio @ Nov 21st 2006 1:40AM
Infil: you don't get it.
You don't point your mouse at the computer screen or hold your mouse like a gun. The Wii's designers chose to ask users to point the Wii like a gun at the screen. When they do this, they will naturally aim for targets.
The mouse sits on a tabletop (oriented along the Z-X plane) and doesn't at all mimic a gun's shape. The mouse is abstracted to the point that there is no inherent desire to correlate the mouse's motion to actual aiming.
The Wii is not abstracted. You're pointing AT THE SCREEN... and yet the dumb thing doesn't accept that input. You've actually got to point away from the screen.
It's like there's this massive wind between you and the screen and you must correct it in order for your bullets to hit home.
Wiik.
Shinji Hiko @ Nov 21st 2006 1:43AM
Are you like an anti-Nintendo fanboy Vlad? It seems that you just enjoy criticism of Nintendo as much as Nintendo fanboys enjoy Nintendo... sad really. You have this preconceived notion that all Nintendo fans go nuts at the site of a bit of criticism and therefore you post it to confirm that belief. I believe you called this... confirmation bias?
Shogan @ Nov 21st 2006 1:43AM
That is the single most inaccurate review I have seen. Either the Wii he had was defective, or he's got some sort of disorder.
Aiming on the Wii is VERY accurate. Not once have I had to adjust to hit anything in Red Steel or Zelda, or even using the Channels. You just point.. and that's it. It's not a Lightgun, but I could play Duck Hunt with this just as well if not better.
Molnek @ Nov 21st 2006 1:45AM
I like that this guy who says he's a hardcore gamer and that he won a halo tournament (so 14 hours of sitting down) is complaining that he doesn't have to get up to play and also I don't care where your loyalties lie if you are over 15 you've more than likely played metroid and you would refer to it as metroid not "a sci-fi title" and if he doesn' have to do a batters stance for baseball why would he hold up the wiimote as if it were an actual gun?
Terrak @ Nov 21st 2006 1:46AM
#7 for a better laugh play with your ps3
BTW i'm sure there are ways to calibrate the Wiimote so as where you point is were the cursor is/goes.
OH check www.gamerankings.com for the average scores for games. The US$600 ps3s best game Resistance averaged only 88% whereas a US$250 Wii's best game Zelda averaged (by 10+ different reviews, including Gamespots 8.8) a 96.6%. Hmm pretty funny ain't it. Also note the other games, genji and untold legends average score - Hilarious!!! Thats was definately worth multiple delays, lies, bull$#!t and shortages!!! Even Red steel that doesn't deliver still compares favourably to that game and yet the whole experience costs a whole US$350 less. Pretty funny eh
Esch @ Nov 21st 2006 1:46AM
It's interesting to note that Zelda includes the calibration feature apparently missing from other titles -- you can adjust the 'height' of the cursor in order to point it at the screen. I think it stands to reason that this could be addressed in future firmware updates; it's not a fundamental fault of the hardware.
Regardless, I haven't had any problems with the pointer myself. I was a little disappointed that I wasn't very good at tennis, but I was able to enter text pretty quickly and navigate the menus with ease.
OM @ Nov 21st 2006 1:47AM
He complains that Zelda teaches you in-game how to fish with the Wiimote and nunchuck. If that's coddling, whats every other game that teaches you how to play?
raquor @ Nov 21st 2006 1:47AM
To the article:
Uh...you don't site down the Wiimote so who gives a crap? You "aim" wherever the cursor goes. I have Red Steel and yes the controls are a bit wonky/cludgy but I blame it on the rush to be a launch title more than on the game itself. It works pretty damn well and is a precursor of what's to come!
To #5:
What's not intuitive about aiming? Guess you havent played it.
To #7:
Where you aim IS where the on screen cursor is as that's where you are currently aiming.
To #10:
Don't have the console either do you? I myself give Red Steel a 7/10 which I think is pretty damn good for what it is and tries to do. A year from now I'd give it a 5 when games/developers have had time to refine this stuff.
To #14:
Agreed. A calibration would solve the whining about the cursor not matching the position or whatever.
S_DOG34 @ Nov 21st 2006 1:47AM
When you have dozens of positive reviews of something it is only natural for someone to come out and hate on it for the purposes of being different or generating attention. It's Vlad's schtick here on joystiq after all. It's pretty clear that what he says has little actual validity...his purpose is to buck the trend in order to generate exposure. Ask yourself this: if everyone hated the wii, what would vlad's opinion of it be?
Brandon @ Nov 21st 2006 1:49AM
"You may now proceed to shoot the messenger..."
Nicely done, incite anger in a way that lays all the blame on the posters. I personally haven't cared about how you are supposedly anti-Wii, but that was just stupid.
morgan @ Nov 21st 2006 1:50AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
half of you havent even played it, i have one and i love it
people are so damn negitive dont belive anything any one says INCLUDING ME just go to a friends ouse or a kiosk and play it
if you dont like it, i dont care
if you DO i really dont care
KanoBlade @ Nov 21st 2006 1:51AM
Note: Have not played the wii, plan on buy a wii...
The inaccuracy is no doubt a turnoff, most people trying to defend it by stating you're not supposed to aim it, i disagree..
It looks like a pointing peripheral, and no doubt it has been advertised as such, but after looking back it seems more as a gesture based controller then an aiming one. Gesture based controlling doesn't have on screen accuracy, and it's "Gesture Based" Accuracy is very accurate indeed.
It would be nice if nintendo did make the wiimote's aiming accurate on screen, however my friends do say that it controls fairly well, and besides redsteel, the aiming is good.
jon @ Nov 21st 2006 1:52AM
I hate it that someone who is trying to be honest and truthful gets flamed just because people don't agree with them.
The Wii has a lot of serious flaws, and if you keep trying to rationalize or justify them, you are in denial. Note how at the end of this piece he notes how the Wii does have a lot of potential. Right now, the cold, hard truth is that the Wii just isn't what Nintendo said it was going to be - we'll have to wait and see.
Optimus Prime @ Nov 21st 2006 1:52AM
The problem with calibration is that you would have to do every time you moved the wiimote.
Even if you rested the wiimote on your knee to play, then suddenly held it outright in your arms, you need to recalibrate. .. The calibration is only good for one spot, then it goes off again, and its not accurate to begin with.
And redsteel would have made a great N64 game... lol. No, seriously, websites giving it a 9 are basically saying that it is as good as Gears of War.. which would be a joke.
mike @ Nov 21st 2006 1:53AM
Hmm... Slate's still sour from MS affiliations. Aren't you guys belly up yet?
vc @ Nov 21st 2006 1:53AM
SDOG34: I'd probably look to provide a contrarian opinion that goes against the grain and that challenges some of the thinking that gets repeated without thought. Like Mary, I'm quite contrary.
It's not to generate attention. It's because I believe that there's a strong tendency in the face of an excellent marketing campaign to suspend critical thinking.
Nintendo's really played this launch extremely well, but I think they've overplayed it to the extent that the product doesn't match promises.
nick @ Nov 21st 2006 1:53AM
This guy is right. I got my wii on launch and enjoy it enough to justify the purchase, but dont kid yourselves. This shit is NOT mainstream. Aside from WiiSports which is intuitive, every other game I've played is quirky and difficult to control.
Maybe developers will do something interesting in the future.. but really, what can you do with gestures that you cant do with a button? Learning gestures for lots of moves is not an easy task (see madden and red steel). All your going to get is the simplest of minigames.
Sorry Nintendo... you blew it.
Ben @ Nov 21st 2006 1:54AM
I really this that there is a lot of overthinking going on here. I have never once actually taken the time to percieve where my hand was pointing was opposed to where Link is aiming the slingshot (I am not to the bow yet), and I have been able to aim just fine. I think that it is no different than using a mouse, but it works in a way that seem more natural, in that IN GENERAL you are moving the pointer in the actual direction in space that you are attempting to move the on-screen action. I don't see how this system of pointing is any more open to criticism than using thumbsticks to aim, which, while physically moving the crosshairs on screen so to speak, is a lot of guess work in and of itself.
Plus, this debate ignores a key fact...not every Wii game means to using the Wii remote as a pointer, nor does every game that uses it as a pointer in one section use it in that capacity in all sections. While I have found the pointer uses of the Wii remote easy enough to use in Zelda, I find the sword swinging to work great...and that has nothing to do with aiming down and to the left. It detects motion in 3D space (as opposed to 2D space like a mouse or joystick), and that can and has been used in a variety of ways.
When it all comes down to it, judging the Wii off of its first batch of games is a disservice to Nintendo and consumers alike. Are we to assume that the horribly clunky interface, awkwardly lightweight controllers, and disjointed network approaches of the PS3 are a wholesale condemnation of the system now and forever? Should the initial hardware failures, overpriced downloadable content, or general lack of true fundamental innovation forever characterize the 360? The answer to both questions is no. These characterizations are both short-sighted and unnecessary...give the Wii time to come into its own. If in a year we are still saying that the Wii remote isn't spot on, or that it is not being used well, then that may be a problem. But for now, let the system flesh itself out, and stop making judgments based off of partial information at best.
jon @ Nov 21st 2006 1:55AM
Note - I do have a Wii, and I think this article is very fair and honest about the actual experience.
KanoBlade @ Nov 21st 2006 1:56AM
Oh and i just wanted to say, for those of you who are laughing at those who don't have a console or haven't played one, please go and buy me one in store.. oh wait? They're sold out! Oh well, i'm sure everyone has one...
(I'm jealous too...)
Sorry for my grammatical errors in the previous post.. it is late..
Morisato @ Nov 21st 2006 2:02AM
I dont know what you're talking about. I point at the screen and the aiming is dead on. Perhaps you should calibrate yourself so that when you point, it matches the cursor on screen. Once you do that, then aiming will be dead on.
In all seriousness, you cant expect the cursor to be dead on at all times. There's so many different variables, such as tv size, viewing position, viewing angle, etc, that would make it impossible. I own a tablet PC and I cant even get that dead on in all areas of the screen. You calibrate the tablet PC by tapping the X's in each 4 corners, but depending on what angle you are looking at it, it will change the relation of where the pen is and where the mouse cursor is (because there's some distance between the top of the glass where the pen touches, and the bottom of the glass where the image is at). This is the exact same thing that is happening with the wii, and there's no way to expect more from it. So for all of you complaining that the aiming of the wiimote is inaccurate, you are wrong. The only thing that is inaccurate is the angle at which you are looking at the wiimote in relation to your TV. I bet you that if you lie your wiimote on a table of some sort where the pointer shows up on screen, you could get the wiimote to aim "correctly" if you position your head just right. A million dollars says it's possible.
hippie pieces @ Nov 21st 2006 2:07AM
If the controllers aim is off adjust the settings. What is so hard about that?
Why are there so many people too stupid to figure out new technology?
Kish @ Nov 21st 2006 2:07AM
I try not to be a fanboy and get to much behind a single system, but #7, #5, vlad,
Kish @ Nov 21st 2006 2:07AM
Bah, whole post was deleted except the first line. I'll condense it.
#7, #5, >, and you others, just some advice. I try not to be a fanboy, but you guys are just being illogical at this point. At this point the initial response to wii is that it is great, with very few naysayers. However you latch onto every bit of information that confirms your bias, and ignore everything else. Yea you could argue that every review so far is just a bunch of fanboys, but if you just say that everyone who has an oppinion contrary to yours is a fanatic, well you can see the problem there.
Instead of just looking for information that confirms your bias, chill, open your eyes, and see try to see how things are instead of how you want them to be.
As they are, wii's initial reviews are impressive. This is a fact. Well over 95% of info on it is positive, and in statistics that number is good enough to say "there is evidence to suggest the theory is true " (in this case the theory being that the wii is a success). Especially horatio in #5. You have hundreds of people saying motion control and pointing is well implemented, but you latch on to the few contrary oppinions as truth? That is shaky ground.
Why do you want it to fail so much that you find any information to prove to yourself that it will? If it is successful isn't that a good thing for you? Won't games be better in the future? If it brings more people into gaming won't that help us all out? This fanboyism is approaching a religious furvor, where you are looking for anything to support your previously held belief's. What is the point?
Calm down, open your eyes, and try to see things as they are, instead of you you guess them or want them to be, OK?
Ringworm @ Nov 21st 2006 2:11AM
Most of the guys posting are pretending that they gave Nintendo one last chance to impress them but failed to do so because of the Wiimote's inacuracies and utter discomfort from wrist based gesture controls. Sony fanboys are so dissapointed in the PS3 that they aren't even playing their videogames. Instead they take out their frustrations on the Wii and 360 consoles. Just let it go already, Enjoy your PS3 before you end up like the PSP....... Game Over!!!
nick @ Nov 21st 2006 2:12AM
Kish.. there's a natural tendency to speak out against a collective groupthink that has come to be with the press coverage of the Wii.
When you know something to be inaccurrate (having played it), and everyone seems to be drinking the kool-aid, and not even acknoledging problems, then its natural to try to disagree.
Nick @ Nov 21st 2006 2:14AM
I haven't ever looked at a Wii Remote and thought to myself: "I should hold this up near my eye and attempt to sight directly down it."
It looks like a Tv remote. I hold it like a TV remote. In my case that means I rest it on my leg, or my chair, or possibly extend my arm. For me, it seems to center pretty well when I point it at what I think is centered. I have no problem moving my hand in whatever position and having the cursor go where I think it should.
If they make a peripheral that makes the remote look like a gun, then I imagine they'll have to make a calibration screen so that the gun sights properly. But as others have said, calibration is only useful if you're planning on staying in the same spot. Otherwise you would need a much more obtrusive sensor bar (on both sides of the screen potentially).
Wii Sports seemed to only give you the "coddling" if you were slow to make the necessary motions...
Benoit Tremblay @ Nov 21st 2006 2:20AM
This is getting out of hand. As soon as someone says anything about your precious Wii, you guys go nuts. Now Vlad is just reporting an article and you flame him again. If you're so fond of it, why don't you go cuddle it and stop caring about someone saying it's nasty. I think the Wii can defend itself on its own anyway !
S_DOG34 @ Nov 21st 2006 2:20AM
Vlad:
I would agree with your opinion if the myriad reviews already posted were without thought as you stated...but they aren't. These are reputable sites with hundreds of games and dozens of systems already reviewed. You basically hit the nail on the head in your post: you're contrary. I don't see the merit in being contrary for it's own sake, which is what you seem to be doing. Clearly, even in your mind, there are good things about the wii. Where are those posts?
Going against the grain does not mean you're thinking critically. Critical thinking implies a balanced and objective approach to something. Considering that literally ALL of your posts and links are regarding things that are negative about the wii it suggests that you are a victim of the very mindless subjectivity you claim to be combating. Your rampant negative attitude is no worse than the ultra positive attitude of the nintendo fanboys.
How do you explain the Red Steel reviews "in the face of an excellent marketing campaign"?
Avinash_Tyagi @ Nov 21st 2006 2:23AM
"43. Kish.. there's a natural tendency to speak out against a collective groupthink that has come to be with the press coverage of the Wii.
When you know something to be inaccurrate (having played it), and everyone seems to be drinking the kool-aid, and not even acknoledging problems, then its natural to try to disagree."
I've played the system as well, and I don't have the same opinion as you, mainly because I haven't tried to treat the Wiimote as a pointer.
vc @ Nov 21st 2006 2:23AM
"How do you explain the Red Steel reviews "in the face of an excellent marketing campaign?"
Red Steel has always been dogged by the enthusiast press. No surprise there. Mainstream media aren't even reviewing that title. Red Steel wasn't part of the media review kit.
Zell @ Nov 21st 2006 2:26AM
In all honesty, I really don't understand why so many have problems with aiming with the Wii remote. My roommate, who really didn't know what the Wii was until I brought it home, used it efforlessly. I use it effortlessly. In fact, I find I send Wii messages even faster now. If I miss a target with my slingshot in Twilight Princess it's usually because I released B too soon. I forget you have to hold it down while you aim. Aim is just fine.
At first I thought maybe after a couple days of it the novelty of the controller would begin to wear off. It hasn't. Tonight while I was playing Twilight Princess, lying back on the couch, I realized how far apart my hands were and control was still smooth.
I'm a good seven feet from my TV. I don't know if others are standing too close. I realized at the DigitalLife Expo people felt they had to be very close to the TV and control was terrible. I suggested they step back a bit.
Instead of focusing where the remote is in relation to the TV, focus on where the cursor is in relation to your position. Perhaps people are just thinking too much.
nick @ Nov 21st 2006 2:28AM
Avinash... so its perfect? Because you know exactly how to use it. Cause you dont treat it like a pointer, like other idiots.
Thats what people call "Elitism" and what is going to turn off the gaming public to Nintendo fans.