Unexplained PlayStation Network and Sixaxis phenomena, mostly explained
by Jonti Davies 
{ Nov 30th 2006 at 11:00AM }
The PS3 is not, it's fair to say, perfect. Yet it's not the complete mess that some fanboys would have you believe, either. In truth, it's just imperfect. Like most consoles (except for the SNES). Anyway, some of those imperfections affect online play with the PS3. And those are the ones that bother us most.
We've been playing Ridge Racer 7 online every day for the past three weeks, and largely without complaint. A few recurring problems have, however, started to sap our Ridge Spirit (whatever that is). For one thing, intermittent Bluetooth downtime suffered by the Sixaxis has led us drifting helplessly into track barriers. That's a hardware fault, but a software anomaly was also experienced at this blogger's test location of Kyoto, Japan, where yesterday a race was won without any true racing:
Our Meltfire motor lined up in pole position on the starting grid, we took off at a good pace, then checked our rear-view mirror to see the other nine racers involved, lagging about 200 meters behind. A second later, they were gone. All our competitors had disappeared, leaving us to amble around the Aviator Loop circuit and, very smugly, pick up some serious Online Battle Points. That was a one-off (although we secretly hope it happens again).
Unfortunately, the Bluetooth deadzone niggle -- caused by automatic Bluetooth re-syncing -- continues to niggle. Worse, having to occasionally connect the Sixaxis via USB in order to manually re-sync its Bluetooth connection is something of a downer. And we want uppers. So, Sony, please release all the firmware updates you can. We've not written you off yet.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
crono141 @ Nov 30th 2006 11:20AM
"We've not written you off yet."
We haven't?
Josh @ Nov 30th 2006 1:06PM
Are you connected to the internet via wireless? The only reports I've heard of people having issues with either their controller or the internet are using the wireless. The combination of the two being problematic because the PS3 can't broadcast both signals at the same time and has to switch between the two repeatedly.
Zonk @ Nov 30th 2006 11:35AM
Can firmware updates really fix something like this? I mean, what if the reason it loses sync is cause by a faulty hardware design, or if the scaling issues are simply because the scaler is faulty as well, so they simply decided to not use it? Will a firmware upgrade magically fix this?
Skwurl @ Nov 30th 2006 11:09AM
Meh.
I'm sure Sony will release an update soon enough. That said, I would still be pretty pissed if my controller lost connection every now and then.
Captain Obvious @ Nov 30th 2006 11:12AM
Shouldn't this "niggle" be a PS3 annoyance?
funkonaut @ Nov 30th 2006 11:37AM
Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a company go from first to worst so quickly.
Although Netscape did a pretty good job before Sony...
Captain Obvious @ Nov 30th 2006 11:35AM
Oh, I see that it is a part of PS3 annoyance #3. But that annoyance is really three separate annoyances comprising the weight of the controller, the syncing issues, and the shutting down issues.
My bad.
Shagi @ Nov 30th 2006 11:43AM
The same thing happened with PGR3 for the 360, there were quite a few races when all the other racers would lag out and you would find yourself racing solo. If this happened on the 360 though in the end you got credit for comming in LAST place. That was a big downer.
As far as blue tooth de-sync I've had it happen to me about twice, but I haven't been playing online so the game simply pauses until it re-syncs. But yeah this sucks and I hope they can release a patch to fix it. I've never had my 360 controller come out of sync during a game.
Skwurl @ Nov 30th 2006 11:16AM
#2
You would think so, wouldn't you?
Years of gaming dictates that this would be more of an annoyance than say...having to plug a classic controller into a wireless remote.
But that's just me.
32_Footsteps @ Nov 30th 2006 11:16AM
Finally, someone who also believes that the SNES was the best console ever. Everyone else looks at me like I'm crazy when I say that.
Mark Felps @ Nov 30th 2006 11:57AM
Yeah, where are the PS3 annoyances? And why is the supposedly objective blogger taking time to put a rhetorical band-aid on Sony's boo-boo.
Wireless controllers that regularly disconnect are a little more than a niggle, I'd think, to anyone who hasn't already decided they're going to love a machine no matter how poorly it performs.
You took the 360 to task -- and rightly so -- for its hardware problems, but it seems like here you're making excuses for Sony's hardware problems.
bearattack79 @ Nov 30th 2006 12:20PM
Dear Sony,
When is the next generation starting again?
AirIntake @ Nov 30th 2006 11:29AM
I've only once had connection problems with a wireless controller, and it was with a $15 hip gear one for the original xbox. It only had 2 channels which you had to switch between manually, so there's the problem.
Wireless controllers that I've never had problems with:
microsoft xbox 360 wireless
logitech freedom 2.4 for PC
logitech cordless for xbox (the big one)
hip gear w/ live headset support for xbox
all of the above I believe switch between multiple channels on the fly, and I've never had problems.
SuicideNinja @ Nov 30th 2006 12:39PM
Still...that's really unacceptable. It affects gameplay, unless you go wired...but doesn't that deny the whole point? I thought Bluetooth was going to be a good thing, with freedom of headsets and a stable connection. Hopefully they can fix that and the 1080i bungle with an update.
Apparently, other than screwing 3rd party accessory manufacturers, MS's proprietary wireless system clearly out-performs Sony's Bluetooth controller implementation (for now). I don't recall any problems similar to dropped controller connections from anyone, and I've not had the problem for over a year now. Initially, I was disappointed MS didn't go Bluetooth, but maybe it was for the better.
Dragon Warrior @ Nov 30th 2006 11:19AM
Welcome to the wonderful world of Bluetooth. For the most part bluetooth is pretty reliable, but I've never seen a bluetooth device that was even near 100%. Everthing from the Bluetooth phones, PDA's, Laptops, USB toggle, and GPS devices I have owned has had a little glitch here or there.
ackmondual @ Nov 30th 2006 11:19AM
I know Wii uses IR for it's controller. The other WL like the Vcontroller also uses BT IIRC. Doens't the 360 WL controllers also use BT or is it a different type of radio frequency? It seems odd that the 360 isn't experiencing this as well.
I'm sure Sony 'll fix it too. No way they came this far to have a controller issue bring their hard work down. Let's hope they doN'T take their sweet time resovling it.
Kamalot @ Nov 30th 2006 11:21AM
I don't ever remember having to plug my WaveBird, 360 controller or Wiimote into the console to make a connection. Nor do I have to plug my Bluetooth mouse / keyboard into the PC to get them to work or connect my bluetooth headset to my phone to pair them. I don't have to connect my bluetooth PDA to my PC to sync it.
I thought the whole point of Bluetooth was to go wireless.
ackmondual @ Nov 30th 2006 11:47AM
@ #4
I agree too. Those who disagreed are either PS2 propoenents or Genesis proponents. Frankly, I really don't know which one is worse.
Petrie @ Nov 30th 2006 11:53AM
*raises hand in agreement with 32*
But only if we don't include handhelds. If we include handhelds I've got to give that crown to the GBA line.
ledraw @ Nov 30th 2006 12:06PM
I've been playing RR 7 and RFOM all week and never had any of my controllers loose sync.
crono141 @ Nov 30th 2006 11:23AM
NO, Wii remotes communicate ONLY with Bluetooth. There is an IR RECEIVER/1 MP IR camera in the wiimote for triangulation purposes only. NO data is sent thru IR.
KBeat @ Nov 30th 2006 11:25AM
@6 The 360 uses a proprietary form of wireless connectivity that I believe is based on the 2.4 ghz standard.
Urbanstorm @ Nov 30th 2006 11:25AM
I never had a problem with the sixaxis but then again all ive played with it is Fall of man and final fantasy 12.Also why do you need to re-sync the sixaxis ? I only plug the usb when i need to charge I never had to re-sync it? Is that a common problem ?
While im here does anybody know if i can change the background color like i could with the psp or does it only change depending on the time of day.
Thanks.......
Kamalot @ Nov 30th 2006 12:08PM
"I know Wii uses IR for it's controller." - ackmondual
The Wii controller uses IR to determine pointler location and accelerometers to determine tilt. It transmits that data to the Wii console via Bluetooth RF signals.
There are teams of people who have successfully paired the Wii remote to PCs and have software that will read the motion sensing data coming from the remote.
Check it out on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iBaKsh5z_o
bird @ Nov 30th 2006 11:26AM
Last night it took me around 40 minutes to download blast factor and i gave up and went to bed after an hour of downloading the resistance demo and it was only at 60%. I have high speed internet too. Those are some rather unacceptable download times.
Dragon Warrior @ Nov 30th 2006 11:27AM
While your correct the Wii does use a bluetooth system for its wireless and microsft might as well. They are actually modified by Nintendo and Microsoft for the purpose of being game controllers and nothing else. Sony is the only one that used the true bluetooth 2.0 standard.
TehSudds @ Nov 30th 2006 12:02PM
Despite his insane capitalization and whatnot, #9 is right. The Wii Remote has an IR image sensor so that it can see where the sensor bar (which has IR LEDs) is, and therefore figure out its position relative to the TV. Bluetooth is used for actual communication, and it seems solid.
scottmr @ Jan 18th 2007 6:35PM
Wow, ive never had this issue- I dont suspect that this issue plagues a large number of people. The syncing issues may even have to do with their environment- anything operating in the unlicensed band may be causing interference. I have been playing nearly 8hrs a day (some days more) on my PS3 have never faced a bluetooth sync issue with either my controller or headset. I believe that the editors should use some intelligence and explain that this issue may not be sole due to the hardware - software, but may be due to their environment. And furthermore state that is may be a relatively isolated issue.
Urbanstorm @ Nov 30th 2006 11:31AM
maybe its just you bird took me 4 min to download blast factor and about 30min to download NBA07.
It could had also been an sever overload at the time you were trying to download (happens on my 360 as well).
alex @ Nov 30th 2006 11:36AM
i think the word niggle is offensive.
crono141 @ Nov 30th 2006 11:49AM
SNES FTW!
The EB manager near me once said "Anyone who doesn't think the SNES was the best console ever made is either ignorant or lying."
Truer words were never spoken...
crono141 @ Nov 30th 2006 12:20PM
Kamalot - Got a link to the project website? I'd love to be able to do that, since my gyromouse in on the fritz.
Jdoki @ Nov 30th 2006 1:09PM
As I work in the mobile telecomms industry we don't have desk phones - everyone gets a mobile phone.
That means a lot of people have Bluetooth headsets as it makes it easier to type and talk.
It's fair to say that rarely a day goes by without someone complaining about their headset losing sync with their phone.
We also use Bluetooth for some data transfer/syncing between PDA/Smart Phone and laptops etc... same issue.
To say I really get frustrated with crappy bluetooth is an understatement!
I have heard that one of the reasons the PS3 pads disconnect more during online play is because of the design of the wireless/Bluetooth components - something about them being physically located too close, or even being part of the same 'wireless' component which is causing some sort of weird interference. This might be tough to fix using firmware updates.
If this is a common problem it's a massive annoyance.
berk porter @ Nov 30th 2006 12:55PM
That issue with the cars dropping out happened to me all the time on the original Xbox. Especially on PGR2, it would happen just about every race. I got a lot of cheap first places that way. Burnout Revenge did the same thing a lot too. So while I'm not a big PS fan, I have to say this is a general networking issue and not specific to PS3 by any means.
32_Footsteps @ Nov 30th 2006 12:58PM
Actually, the only way I'd even consider the PS2 in the conversation is if you give it full credit for being backwards compatible with the PS1. If you consider only the games native to the platform, only the PS1 in my eyes comes close to equalling the SNES.
Worth noting how many great games those two systems had in common, thanks to rereleases... Final Fantasy 4, FF6, Chrono Trigger, Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen...
As for the GBA... well, you note that I was very specific and said "console," not "platform." I've never come to a satisfactory conclusion as to whether the GBA or the SNES is better. I think I'd have to play a few more of the more obscure GBA titles people like to make a final decision. I currently favor the SNES more (partly because FF4 is my favorite game of all time and I can't stand what they did to the battle system in FF4A), but the GBA makes a strong case for itself.
LunarDuality @ Nov 30th 2006 1:11PM
Seriously...if this re-sync issue is true it should be a full out "annoyance". Presonally, if my controller stopped working for a couple seconds in an online match *and I lost* I would probably throw the thing in the trash. That is absolutely unacceptable.
As for the lag...meh...lag happens to everyone at some point. Good for you that you got rewarded though. (^_^)
Ironhide Delta @ Nov 30th 2006 10:10PM
Perhaps one might forget the issues SNES had? The massive slowdown from Gradius III? The slowdown from Super R-Type? From pretty much any fast moving game? That hereby renders any claims to perfection the SNES might have moot. Simply put there are no 'best ever' consoles. Just consoles we have enjoyed greatly.
gtpunch @ Nov 30th 2006 12:53PM
I've only ever had to sync up my 360 controllers once- they've never lost connection, and they can be left off for days/weeks without needing re-syncing.
A console is an appliance- it should be designed to be quickly and simply usable without any hassle.
Jeff @ Nov 30th 2006 1:38PM
Personally I think nothing beats good ol' double A's when it comes to wireless controllers. My Wiimote lasted about all the way through Twilight Princess, which is pretty good considering how immense that game was. Also I almost never had to change the batteries in my Wavebird.
Also, the I don't think the Wii uses some sort of modified stripped down bluetooth because someone (either Engadget or here or Wii Fanboy) got the Wii to read pictures off of a bluetooth cellphone, and also the previously mentioned "use Wiimote as six axis mouse" thing.
And just because I'm a Nintendo guy...my Wiimote never loses sync...unless I don't touch it for a few minutes, but that's a good thing.
olanarchangel @ Nov 30th 2006 4:12PM
Funny, it seems like Joystiq is trying to regain favor with the Sony camp by excusing any problems with the PS3. Of course, they don't want to miss any potential Wii problems, like plugging in controllers (because, you know, that's so last gen).
watership @ Nov 30th 2006 1:44PM
I've yet to have a 360 controller problem and I have 3 since Launch. What problems have you guys been having?
TexRob @ Nov 30th 2006 12:58PM
I have to agree, Bluetooth was a bad choice. It's a great tech, but it suffers from lots of interference and problems that are kind of a big deal when you want the controller to work 100% of the time, not 99%. I had never used a wireless controller before the Xbox 360. I've had mine almost a year, and I have had not had to re-sync it once. It has never stopped working during gameplay, it has never had problem 1. I am talking 100% success rate. To me, it's really impressive.
Hopefully the PS3 stuff is going to get fixed soon.
Randall Fitzgerald @ Nov 30th 2006 2:15PM
I know the angry fans will try to kill me for putting this forward, but I have not once replugged any of my SIXAXIS controllers since I got the PS3, save for the few firmware updates. I've not hit any BT deadzones, I've never had the controllers lag or act funny at all. So, yeah. Just putting that out there. I mean, Jonti certainly puts the problem in the limelight for writing for one of the Big Two gaming blogs, but none of my PS3 wielding friends or myself have had the issues. Same as the failures. Wii and PS3 alike. The net has just made console launches into soapboxes and "real news sources" for people to point to as proof that their console rocks and the other sucks. I mean, just look at the people trying to get an isolated incident classed as an annoyance when I've only seen it from one writer.
I still want background downloading though. That's just basic.
saboola @ Nov 30th 2006 2:38PM
Anyone that opened up the box for Final Fantasy 3 (USA) and quickly threw it in the cart slot of their SNES on launch day knows one thing: the SNES was, is, and will always be the greatest console ever. Super FX FTW.
Joe Smith @ Nov 30th 2006 3:55PM
I'm sorry -- a controller that doesn't always work is a "niggle"? How about a huge f'ing design flaw that should never have gotten onto the market? If this were happening on Xbox 360, it would be treated like the end of the world for the system. On PS3, it's a "niggle".
I always thought that using Bluetooth was stupid for controllers -- that's not what it is designed for. There's a good reason MS designed their own system for their wireless controllers -- because that way they could make sure it WORKED.
flamer's grill @ Nov 30th 2006 6:11PM
Nice to see Michael Richards back on his feet as a writer here at Joystiq. Good luck to you here, Mike. No time like the present to rebuild a career.
A. Layne @ Nov 30th 2006 2:01PM
There used to be a time when a person could by a game system and get the full experience in itself.
Network and Firmware updates are fun and exciting when they come as a surprise or when the gaming experience is already enjoyable and the update only serves to enhance the experience.
But it's a sad day when we have to hope for updates to be available to correct problems and improve the functionality of a system.
first thing I'm thinking,
Sony really needs to get on top of making the PS3 multi task (For example, playing a game while downloading content). To have all the power it does and to have to wait for a download to finish before other functions of the system can be used is just wrong.
oh, and not having a pause option for downloads is terrible. you have to start your download over if you exit the screen.
I don't hate Sony, but this sucks.
Hopefully they're listening to us and things get better.
Lou @ Nov 30th 2006 3:11PM
Yeah, I hate to say, "I told you so", but from the beginning, one of my biggest worries about the PS3 was the Bluetooth choice. I've played with the 360's wireless controllers, and for the PS3 to dominate here, they needed to be awesome. But they aren't.
The problem is that no bluetooth device is perfect. Headsets, mice, phones. I was all about it in the beginning and had a lot of bluetooth stuff, but really in the end it just hasn't been implemented well. My bluetooth mouth was a waste, using it for Photoshop or Illustrator was an arduous task, and I don't want to be playing a shooting game and have my cursor jumping from side to side.
Sorry PS3, you still haven't shown your worth yet.
AndrewF @ Nov 30th 2006 1:49PM
The problem is when the Wifi and the Bluetooth go on at the same time, thereby causing interference. Go Google "WiFi Bluetooth interference" if you're interested.
Not sure about the Wii, but the 360 uses its own standard for the controller to avoid interference. If you use wired access for online and disable WiFi, then the Bluetooth problem should go away. It's a pain if that's not feasible though.
Not sure how a firmware update would fix this. You could control the timing of signals to minimize interference, but you still have to worry about other Bluetooth or WiFi devices in the area. The fundamental problem is that the WiFi and Bluetooth standards conflict.
Spartacus @ Nov 30th 2006 1:57PM
A couple of years ago, on this very site, Sony fans were praising the fact that the PS3 would use Bluetooth 2.0 and were criticizing the "old tech" found in the 360's 2.4GHz wireless controllers. Of course none of them relaized that bluetooth operates on the exact same frequency differing only in encrytion. Like others have said, bluetooth has many issues. I worked for Verizon Wireless for a while and sold many blutooth devices. Most of the employees had them as well. All had issues with them. I personally can't stand them. I'll take a wired headset over the crappy signal of BT anyday. Sony took an unreliable wireless technology and copy and pasted it into the SIXAXIS without any modifications. This seems to be the mantra of the PS3- Take all forms of the hippest tech and throw it together hoping for the best. Apparently integration wasn't all too important to them (look at the huge bottleneck in their system's architecture and the split memory banks). Reminds me of the Olympic games where the Americans throw all their star players on a court and think that'll win games then get thrashed by countries with less talent but better team skills.
MS's wireless technology is a proprietary system of constant signal jumping. The 360 pad scans all open channels, searches for interferance, locates used signals and hops over those several times each second. The result is the most reliable wireless device I have EVER used in my life. No syncing issues, no lag, no problems. It's perfection. Overall, the design of the 360 pad is nearly flawless. It is, in my opinion, the best pad ever to grace the gaming scene. The SIXAXIS? It's a decade old design with crappy egonomics, tacked on motion sensors, removed rumble motor and crappy analogue stick placement that is cheaply produced using a wireless technology that has long history of issues.
Hardware design:
360>PS3
Software support:
This is where the question lies...