NY Times: It's a Wii60 Holiday

@43:

Troll Flamebaiter. Man. Are you still sore that you bought windows ME?

Speaking of companies being sheisty, look at how Sony developed their first playstation, and how they USED nintendo to do it.

Price fixing? How do you price fix if you are the only ones who are fixing the prices. "uh, we are fixing console games at $100 a pop. There, that will show sony and their $60 games!"

I don't care if microsuck gets every exclusive, at least my 360 wont have a ROOTKIT that infects my computer, or explode, or SUE MY ASS OUT OF BUSINESS...

/feeding troll

"To compare systems, you need to spend $400 on an 360 premium and $200 for the HD drive...if my math is right, you are at $600."

Except you can get a 360 Premium right now for $200 from Micro Center.

Resistance doesn't run smoother than GoW...they both run at 30fps. That's a fact. And if we just want to talk graphics, go back and take a look at Condemned and Kameo for 360...both launch titles with amazing graphics. Also, Call of Duty 2 ran at 60 fps and was rock solid. PS3 games look slightly higher resolution, yes, but it isn't a deal breaker. Most people that aren't total graphics whores would never notice.

The simple fact is that PS3 fanboys are backing off their claims now that the PS3 launch games were going to look better than the 2nd-gen 360 games. Now all of a sudden it will take time to "harness the power of the Cell processor" or whatever. As positive word-of-mouth spreads about the 360 as more people buy it, the Playstation brand weakens. It is far from over, but it is already starting to take some critical blows in that Sony is no longer the clear-cut winner.

Hey, way to go Mike M for making some reasoned points!

Here's the problem with the NYT article - yes, it makes no sense to buy a PS3 now (and yet, every copy out there has sold - many for thousands of dollars!!). But that doesn't, somehow, make the other consoles *better*.

Scheisel has to be on nitrous to say that both systems offer the "same thing" with regards to movie play back for the "same amount of money." Did they ship him a hd-dvd set for free?

The 360's software line up is, (un)shockingly, better than the PS3's right now...so I can see why they would treat a PS3 harshly due to a lack of anything good it can do yet. But it is absurd to not mention the added value of included elements to the ps3 that are important to some users. for example, I can't use the ethernet port - would have to get wireless. not even to go into various other things, if I wanted to get a 360 with a hard drive, wireless adaptor, hd-dve player, and live gold - I'd be paying way more than 600 bucks.

logikil

yes and none of those games I actually like. Plus everyone knows that the rpgs for xbox dosent hold up to the same class as for ps2. Im pretty sure it will be the same with this generation.
The "western RPGs" will mostly be ports so I can still play those on the ps3. And whatever you say MS dosent have any support in Japan thus they will not have the biggest RPGs. This isnt news really. Dont missunderstand me, I like the Xbox for Halo, Dead rising and Gears of war. Sadly thats the only exclusive games I liked with the box. The RPGs will be for the PS3 without any doubt. Maybe if xbox owners are lucky they could see some ports of final fantasy or Suikoden or any other of those really good rpgs. I hope so for you.

I am going to try Blue dragon today though but Im pretty sure it wont be anything special. (yes I live in Japan and its getting released today). Problem with good rpgs nowadays is that they almost have to come from a serie. Maybe I started playing them very young and have a trouble getting used to new ones.

Even so I think RP gamers will have alot more fun with the PS3 compared to the 360.

I played a ps3 at EB the other day. The controller actually wasn't as crappy as everyone says but then again I never liked the old playstation controller. It didn't feel as cheap as everyone said and while the triggers seemed shitty and generic especially when compared to every analog trigger since the dreamcast controller, it was still better then the digital buttons it had before. Do I think its a good controller? Its passable I suppose, but it still not as good as 360's or the wii's and fps's will always suck ass with the dual analogs right next to each other. Also I see the motion sensing being more gimmicky then what people suppose with the wii and having no rumble plain sucks. Using motion sensing to do free throws in basketball is just plain stupid.
Motorstorm by the way while it looks beautiful, has horrible slow down. When your by yourself the framerate is compenent 30 frames I's say but once you come up around other cars it drops badly. Its like a racing game with a bullet time affect. Its so bad I wouldnt by the game no matter how nice it looks. Sorry but I want a racing game with a good frame rate and is fast. Excite truck is a much better buy then motorstorm. At some point ps3 will have games that will make you say I want a ps3 now but right now I wouldnt buy one its not worth the 600 dollars now.

Without getting into a major debate, Blackrose, I disagree that RPGs won't come out for the 360 due to lack of Japanese support. Sure, if your idea of a good RPG is Twilight Princess or Final Fantasy, then okay, you're right. When I think of RPGs, though, I think of traditional RPGs--like Bethesda releases or other D&D-style games. So, although I consider myself an RPG fan, I'm not worried.

Doesn't the HD, and wireless adaptor come with the 400 Xbox premium? And then the HD-DVD player is 200. Thats sounds like 600 to me.

I first heard "fanboy" in the DC comic Lobo, and that goes back to about 1991 or so. However, it certainly existed before then.

But when? 32 Footstep's assertion about SciFi conventions makes sense to me.

Josh,

Perhaps my math is not as good as yours. If the premium sells for 400 and the rebate is 100, then I keep coming up with 300, not 200. Maybe it's my calculator...damn MacBook Pro. However, if the core system sells for 300 and the rebate is 100, then I get 200.

I would suggest you double check your numbers, and don't major in anything requiring math of any level.

I find it awkward why people hate PS3 and Sony so much? I'm not a fanboy of any system. If I like it, I'll buy. But people can be so double standard, how they hate Microsoft and Gates, but when it comes to comparing it with PS3, they suddenly jump into the wagon. I find it weird.

I know this guy, he tried to convince me not to buy a PS3, by mentioning the graphics, the bugs and all that kind of stuff. So I asked him if he owned one, he said no. I find it so hard to believe.

And a few days later he got a WII.. which is so strange because a few days earlier he told me not to purchase a newly launched console because it's gonna be as buggy as hell.. but yet he scored himself a wii. and he did buy xboy a week after itslaunch too.

a lot of people can be so unreasonable and as fanboy as it sounds.

Wow, the PS3 is really taking a beating from the New York Times. But, it sounds about true. Around where I'm from, most people are getting the Wii60 combo for Xmas, or from the money they get for Xmas. I know only one person wanting the PS3.

Hi... Im about to buy a 360 to complete my Wii60 combo... but... will be better if I wait for the 360 with the 65 nm chip? Will the performance be better, like less overheat or something?

50:

The rebate gets you $100 off the premium, not $200. So the premium would be $300. I'm just saying. So that gets you to $500 with the premium and the hd-dvd drive.

MOVIE PLAYBACK CAPABILITIES:

Xbox 360: $400 + $200 HD-DVD add on = $600
OR you can download HD content without buying an optical drive effectively making the movie playback of the 360 $200 cheaper. The 360 also has a scaler in it, which makes viewing HD content much more reliable on any HDTV as you can actually choose what resolution you want or need.

PS3: $600 firm, whether you ever intend on buying BluRay movies or not (you could opt for the $500 version, but you sacrifice some options). The PS3 offers no downloadable movies as of right now. It also has no scaler chip which is causing a bit of a hassle with some older HDTV's. The latest patch might have made things worse (firmware v1.30). WIthout proper calibration the PS3 could display your BD movies in glorious 480p. Furthermore the PS3 does not come with HD cables. The 360 premium does. Add another $30-$40 to the pricetag.

Most importantly, though both systems will cost roughly the same if you are wanting to use them as an optical drived based movie platform, both have pros and cons. But if you want a gaming machine, the 360 is clearly the winner for this holiday season. Next year we'll see how things look agian...

Unless you're a hacker, there is NO logical reason to buy a PS3 right now. The games that are suppose to sell the PS3 won't even be out until a year or two from now: MGS4, GT5, Killzone, etc. FFXIII is probably two years away. And by the time those PS3 killer app comes out, the system would have gone through a few price drops (and of course more readily available.

You could possibly own ALL 3 systems with $600 - $700 2-3 years from now ($150 Wii, $200 Xbox360, $250 PS3) if you spread your money wisely from now until 2008.

Just think about it, drop your pride in your favorite console company, and be a GAMER.

"Right now there is basically no rational reason to buy a PlayStation 3 instead of an Xbox 360."

I guess it's irrational to buy a top quality BlueRay player, for the lowest price on the market. Especially when that player has significant extra features like operating as a full computer system and game console. It must be particularly irrational for people who expect BlueRay to evenutally dominate over HD-DVD. Not to mention buying it when it's release lineup has the exclusive's that you are most interested in. That's just crazy talk.

@64:

Exactly. I have been playing Okami (since I can't find a wii) and other xbox and ds games. They are great games! Let the PS3 sit on the shelf for a bit, if anything, to let sony know we don't want to pay $600 for a game console. Maybe that's just me.

Has anyone bought a $600 ps3 and regret their purchase? are you afraid to say so because you spent $600 or $1200 on a bid?

I bought a psp for $200 at launch, and I felt like a tool afterwords. Anyone wiling to fess up? Anyone watching that HUGE black box sit there (after beating RFOM) and think "well, shoulda waited".

Just wondering.

The other week I had a chance to either snag a PS3 or buy an Xbox360. I went over the plusses and minuses in my head (mind you, yes, I admit that it's empty half the time), and ended up with a 360 because a) there's games out for it now that I *want* to play, b) I could afford to buy a few older tiles with the price difference, and c) there just wasn't the "must have" feeling with the PS3.

Maybe in six months to a year (which is why I waited to get a 360 in the first place), but right now there's not a lot there for me (who has bought nearly every game system at launch since the early 80's) to get excited about.

k9

"The rebate gets you $100 off the premium, not $200. So the premium would be $300. I'm just saying. So that gets you to $500 with the premium and the hd-dvd drive."

60: That is only one of the rebates available for it. If you sign up for Micro Center's credit card, and spend $400 in Micro Center that day, you can get enough points on the card to get back ANOTHER $100!

So Credit Card points = $100 back
Micro Center Rebate = $100 back

That's a half price XBox 360 Premium.

Hell, if you sign up for Vonage for a year at the $25 per month level, you can get ANOTHER $200 back! I already have Vonage, though, so I only got the $200 back. "Only." HAH!

63: Read my previous post. Credit card points = $100 back. Rebate = $100 back.

Read up:
http://www.fatwallet.com/t/18/678391

i have a feeling that this race is going to be fairly close... similar to the early 90s with the genesis and super nintendo. just because ppl will buy playstation things due to the brand.. i figure ps3 might pull ahead at the very end.. but it wont dominate like ps2 did.. and yeah... graphics dont make everything.. because xbox and cube had better graphics than ps2 when they came out.. but due to all these companies making exclusives for ps2, the graphics didnt matter.

@18

>dont think 360 will do as well as he thinks; people have had a full year with to pick one up and there are really good deals


People have had a full year to pick up a lot of things from digital cameras to HDTVs but they do it much larger numbers around this time of year. At least 40% of these types of purchases are made around this time,. The reason Black Friday is called so is because that is day the retailers start to move into profitability for the year. Think about that! The rest of year they are just holding on waiting for christmas to make it alright. This is why the holiday retail numbers are watched so closely. When analysts talk about how well a place did over the holidays they are really talking about how well they did for the year.

If you estimate that 40% of Xbox buying will take place in the last 8 weeks of the year, a not unreasonable estimate given how the retail world is built, they will be very close to their goal. This is to say nothing of the fact that for a whole year there was no GoW.

The problem Sony has is that just about the they have enough PS3s to go around money for purchasing will have dropped wickedly.

Ho ho ho. I guess its bye bye Sony. Maybe they will auction the rights to the Sony trademark on e-bay. Not that you would get much for a has-been brand that represents many a failed attempt to dictate it standards on the world. Nice try Sony. Only this time instead of Betamax its blu-ray, and this baby has taken you down with it. And for the Sony Fanboys a message "have you ever had the feeling you've been had..."

FFXIII is the only reason I would buy a PS3. FFXII just came to US last month so 13 is atleast 2 years+ away. MGS4 will be a great game but I didn't even finish MGS2 (started using Raiden and was like WTF). I doubt FFXIII will be a big thing like FF7 but I would love to play it.

On the other hand my 360 got some good RPGs coming like Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey. Lost Odyssey just might fill the FF void if it lives up to expectations. Plus I'm really excited about the recent Mass Effect trailer. That was just hot. The 360 is only missing FF for now. Is it a good trade off in RPGs? Who knows but the 360 definitely got some coming.

Everyone seems to be assuming that FF13 and MGS4 will be PS3 exclusives. I know they were shown on PS3 hardware at E3, but are they legally bound to be on that console alone? Neither is a first party title, and both series are presently showing up on Nintendo hardware (classic FF on GBA/DS, Snake in Super Smash Bros. Brawl). I think there's a not insignificant chance that both of those games will show up on the 360, and what does Sony have then?

This is for 'blackrose' whom doesn't seem to have a clue:

360 RPGs

Spectral Diario - Idea Factory
Spectral Force 3 - Idea Factory
Saga of Cathay - Idea Factory
Eternal Sonata - Bandai
Untitled .hack style rpg - Bandai
Enchanted Arms - From Software
Phantasy Star Universe - Sega - mmo
Operation: Darkness - Sega
Golden Axe - Sega
Blue Dragon - Mistwalker
Lost Odyssey - Mistwalker
Cry On - Mistwalker
Culdcept Saga - Namco
Infinite Undiscovery - TriAce
Final Fantasy XI - SquareEnix - mmo
Final Fantsy XI-2 - SquareEnix - mmo
Dungeon Explorer - Hudson Soft
Far East of Eden Ziria - Hudson Soft
Magna Carta 2 - Softmax
Zoids Infinite Ex Neo - Tomy
Embrace of Time - ORiGO
Elder Scrolls: Oblivion - Bethesda
Two Worlds - Reality Pump
Mass Effect - Bioware
Jade Empire 2 - Bioware
Bioshock - Irrational Games
Elveon - 10tacle Studios
Fable 2 - Lionhead
Kindom Under Fire: Circle of Doom - Blueside
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance - Activision
Lord of the Rings: The White Council - The Gray Company
RPG Project #1 (Untitled) - Obsidian Entertainment
RPG Project #2 (Project New Jersey) - Obsidian entertainment
RPG Project #3 (KOTOR3) - Obsidian Entertainment
X Quest - Spectrum Mediaworks - mmo
Warhammer Online - RvR - mmo
Champions of Atlantis - Epiphany Games - mmo
Project 880 - James Cameron project - mmo
Shadowrun - Microsoft Game Studios - mmo
Untitled - Cryptic Studios - mmo

WHO GIVES A SHIT about hddvd OR bluray there retarded, who gives a crap i want a cheap xbox for games, and a cheap wii for games and im getting them both for the price of a PS3

and the PS3 sucks, its just an xbox 360, ITS THE SAME THING but for hundreds more and hard to get a hold of

HDDVD AND BLURAY are not important, dvds are fine, the diffrence between is not worth 300 dollars or even 100, and i can get everything on DVD, hd and bluray is split down the middle



FROM THE STAND POINT OF STOCKS AND MONEY AND LOANS AND BONDS and bills and promises and supply and demand

sonys gaming division is slowly dieing, there will be a PS4, and it will decide if the companys gaming division will make it, the PS3 is just and inbetween console so it wasent left out this genaration

Another thing about the price comparison(360 vs PS3) is that with the 360 you are not REQUIRED to buy the movie portion of the console. PS3 is is jaming blu-ray down your throat. I'm not even thinking about a PS3 at it current price.

@ #18
""Essentially, if you wanted one why havent you gotten one already? He doesnt address that.""

In addition to what #70 posted, the first few months or so, ppl couldn't really find a 360 at MSRP. Last few months prior to PS3 and Wii, many were holding out to see if the PS3 and/or Wii would be better since I'm sure many of them couldn't buy both a 360 and PS3. That leaves some windows of purchase between those 2 time periods for ppl to juggle buying other cool crap or a 360.

Doc Evil

I never ment to say that the xbox 360 dosent have any rpgs. What I meant with that was that the 360 didnt have any good rpgs. Just look at that list. Most of it is crap. And some games are ports. I could throw back a list with thousands of ps2 rpg at you but I dont see the point since I only play like 5 of them or something.

I should have been more clear but its the quality Im after. And the quality rpgs arent on the 360. Maybe it will. Lost Odyssey could really fill a big hole there.

Another 3 console owner here. Let us take this time to simplify some things. First, it seems this has developed into more of a "My console is better than yours" contest and this Sony doomsaying is quite ridiculous. The Wii is fun for group entertainment and some single player experiences with the Nintendo trio of games everyone gets and plays (including myself) Zelda, Metroid, and Mario. Yes I am well aware that only one of the aforementioned games is out, but I can promise you they will be around soon. However, due to the glaring obvious reuse of graphics hardware there is a sort of lack of solid single player experience with third party games. This doesn't really matter to the Wii as Nintendo knew full well that the reuse of graphics equipment wouldn't really affect younger gamers, but those of us who are older and do want that shiny HD experience were kind of left in the cold at the expense of Nintendo cutting costs. Wii, great console, not for those who want to experience the Assassin's Creed and Oblivion. Secondly, people are making the statement of the apples to apples comparison and what gen to what gen games have to be prepared the response. The systems are almost identical in graphical capabilities with a slight advantage to Sony for slightly better hardware, but as a double edged sword, that very new "cell" technology is apparently difficult to develop for. See the article with Sony's Phil Harrison at http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=59243
so that being understood yes that promotes a challenge and thus it will take time for Sony to get the reigns on all of that hardware. The Xbox 360 is a resounding success, but has also and on purpose had a full years start to get ready for this release and that was always the plan for Microsoft to get the jump. History is merely repeating and just like the Xbox 360 release titles were awful (not graphically, but game play wise) the PS3 titles are less that amazing. Can anyone here rightfully declare a winner as of yet, probably not and all we have to do is wait and see what happends with formats and developers. I really feel for Sony, but am not a fanboy and acknowledge the fact that Sony has made some really idiotic decisions on the release of their console, as has Microsoft. The statement of my way or the highway made earlier is also null, becuase the Blu-ray technology is just the media that Sony decided to use, not a secret plan to force you to buy "All Blu-ray." Just as Microsoft has it's Optional HD-DVD attachment that keeps users saving money without it, but if you don't include any rebates means that an XBOX 360 at retail with the HD-DVD drive is $599.98 sound familiar with price point for HD content playback? I hope Sony can pull a PS2 style market move so my 600 dollars was not spent in vein, but if the worst case scenario occurs then no harm no foul and I will move ot playing Wii and 360, I do sincerely doubt that Sony would let that happen though.

but you can't scratch the disks! it's unpossible!

Heres some reality bites:

Waited on line Wednesday morning at our local Walmart, as they'd said a shipment of games was coming in. At 6:30 am, the department manager came out, said they had 8 Wiis and 4 PS3s (all 20 GB).

I & 7 others snapped up the Wiis.
There were NO takers for the PS3s.

BTW, we had to wait 2 hours in the cold, but at least the nightshift guys let us hang in the space between the entrance doors, so we didnt freeze. And I got my Wii (no way I was paying anything over retail).

To Jonathon:
I never said Tony Hawk Downhill Jam wasn't fun. I have had some fun with the game. I said the graphics were bad. Not bad on a "compared to 360/PS3 level", but bad compared to a Gamecube level.

To TheBigUnit622:
I chose Perfect Dark as the example, because it was hyped as the premiere 1st person shooter for the 360, just like Resistance was for the PS3. Of course COD2 became the best game of the 360 lineup, but even that game is trumped by Resistance in the graphics department. I see COD2 and Perfect Dark as being similar on a graphics quality level.

To logikil:
I understand that the 360 us supposedly capable of an all-digital connection. But, so far no word on an HDMI release date (and not even a rumored release date...doesn't sound like its gonna be soon). Also, just because movie companies might bot being taking advantage of the digital copy-protection now, doesn't mean they won't in the future once HD-DVD burners become more popular, and HD-DVD blank media becomes more available. I agree it isn't quite fair to compare launch games for the PS3 and launch games for the 360. But I think you've taken it a bit far in the other direction. I don't think that the playing field is completely level yet. The 360 was available in retail stores before the final PS3 dev kits were ever made. You have to give them some slack.

One thing I will HEAVILY praise Sony on is their ports on the PS3. Phenomenal. USB ports on the system AND on the controller. Also, a normal HDMI port on the back of the system. I don't need to buy or use some special video adapter. I like how I can use the exact same cables that other electronics use, and not have to buy proprietary stuff that just works for the PS3. Also, now I can use my lovely Logitech headset that I use on the PC for my Starcraft gaming sessions. I can't believe that you can use 3rd party USB PC headsets, and use standard cables like USB and HDMI.... How "un-Sony-like".

Oh, by the way....

Mike M = MrPolarBare

The Register is carrying a nice piece describing how Rob Enderle is a professional shill for Microsoft, along the way doling out similar punishment to the whole tech analyst field.

http://www.theregister.com/2006/12/12/analyst_nytimes/

Good food for thought for anyone considering taking Mr. Enderle a hundredth as seriously as Mr. Enderle takes himself.