PS3 firmware 1.30 "fixes" 1080i problem
What has been fixed: the system has given a higher priority to 1080i signals so, if available, the console will default to 1080i over 720p. This means that if your HDTV supports 720p, and a game's native resolution (like Resistance: Fall of Man) is 720p, it should display fine in that resolution. If the native resolution is 1080p (NBA07, the XMB interface, Blu-ray movies) and your set supports 1080i and 720p, the console will automatically default to 1080i due to the higher preference, regardless of what your preference is. If you disable the 1080i output so everything will play in your preferred 720p, your Blu-ray movies will drop down to 480p. We're not really sure what problem this update was intended to fix or why the resolution hierarchy isn't user selectable.
Luckily, most new HDTVs support both 720p and 1080i making these issues moot for many gamers, but we're hoping (really, it's on our Xmas list) that the eggheads at Sony are working on a holiday-themed upgrade to support downscaling Blu-ray movies to 720p and upscaling some games (like Resistance) to 1080i. Oh, and maybe some of that DVD-upscaling we're hearing about while they're at it.
Also included in the update:
- RGB and Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr output selection over HDMI
- A backup utility to get your removable media data -- that's SD, Compact Flash, and Memory Stick -- to the HDD
- HDD formatting option
- Support for a Bluetooth remote control
Read -- AVS Forums on why 720p owners should not upgrade to 1.30
Read -- Machine translated list of updates from jp.playstation.com
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
nick @ Dec 6th 2006 10:32AM
One step forward, two steps back.
rrenna @ Dec 6th 2006 10:37AM
So..... it doesn't actually fix any resolution, it just programs the ps3 to know to pick the highest resolution you can support (and the ps3 will allow you to support).
They probably should have just combined this with an actual fix, unless none is coming... which is my very strong assumption (no scaler?)
Pip @ Dec 6th 2006 10:40AM
This is such a clusterf...
Many gamers are in the early adopter group who mostly own the "older" (Past 2-3 years) HDTVs where this no 720p is a big issue.
Sony can't honestly expect people to run out and buy new HDTVs simply because theirs was one of the many sold without 720p support. There are a ton of us out here who would like to actually play a PS3, but if it doesn't work with our TVs, our hands are tied. This sucks!
luigi193 @ Dec 6th 2006 10:41AM
Any one know when the next wii system update will be?
zero2dash @ Dec 6th 2006 10:41AM
"Play B3yond" indeed, eh Sony?
Wow...such basic rudimentary problems for a console that is supposed to support "true HD". God, the Ps3 has turned into a clown show. Good job, guys...you're making it easy for the competition this time around.
@ Dec 6th 2006 10:42AM
What is the problem for BD playback?
If your TV accepts 1080i but is 720p native; then output it as 1080i from the PS3, the TV will do the downscaling and de-interlacing to fit its native resolution.
So, there is NO point to internal downscaling of 1080p to 720p in the PS3 (or any HD player) if the HDTV accepts a higher resolution signal. Which they all do since there are also ZERO 720p only HDTVs.. that standard became more common after 1080i.
ealba @ Dec 6th 2006 10:43AM
i didn't get any of that.
Erwos @ Dec 6th 2006 10:44AM
I don't get how this even theoretically fixes the 1080i problem.
Jeff @ Dec 6th 2006 10:55AM
"I don't get how this even theoretically fixes the 1080i problem."
I don't get how it's even a problem in the first place.
How many of you *actually* have TV's that cannot display or scale 720p? Or are you just speaking for some otherwise unrepresented huddled mass of offline HDTV owners that apparently can't speak for themselves?
Nobody I have seen in any of these posts *or* comments has ever said this was a problem *for them*. They always speak about "early adopters" who bought their sets 2-3 years ago in a patronizing display of forced empathy. Well, I am one of those "early adopters" and my set displays 720p (at 1080i) just fine. You don't need to speak for me; I can speak for myself.
El Chino @ Dec 6th 2006 10:57AM
Erwos....
In the same manner the x360 update added 1080p to the 360. If you can add a feature with an update (as with the 360 update) certainly you can fix one with an update as well (as with the PS3 update). Nothing more than a software problem not a hardware since HDMI can handle up to 1080p.
Kumar Shah @ Dec 6th 2006 10:58AM
How hard is to display the resolution that the user wants?
My 360 does it.
Sony...a company that doesn't CARE.
LordVierge @ Dec 6th 2006 10:58AM
"I don't get how this even theoretically fixes the 1080i problem."
It makes it so that the PS3 searches outputs a 1080i connection before it attempts 720p. Thus if you don't have a 720p capable set it will not down convert the image to 480P rather display it as 1080i unless you disable the 108oi resolution. It's not really an update as much a re-ordering of the resolution algorithm that the PS3 uses to select a resolution. Since 1080i is actually a lower resolution than 720p I'd expect it to down convert a 720p game (RFOM)to 1080i instead of 480p. At least I would hope that is the case for all those early HDTV adopters.
Agent MOO @ Dec 6th 2006 11:01AM
No problems on the 360 :-D
benjamin @ Dec 6th 2006 11:02AM
You know, as much as I like to think I understand modern video technology, I don't really get what I'm supposed to choose when I'm given the ability to use RGB or Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr over HDMI.
It's my understanding that the video signal that's sent over component cables is split into Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr spectrum whereas RGB is considered to be the 'purist' video signal available and is generally used when connecting over what are traditionally 'computer-based' connections; VGA, DVI and the like.
Thus, I don't understand why I'm selecting the domain, as it were, for video information over HDMI.
Maybe a guru here can better explain things to me.
Dragon Warrior @ Dec 6th 2006 11:02AM
#3 My thoughts exactly. I'm lucky I bought a TV that has 1080i, 720p, 480p support when I did 4 years ago. A lot of TV's out there did not and still dont have 720p. Also to people who think that the tv will just take a res and upscale it to what ever you set the tv to they dont half of the time. My Sony HDTV will just take the signal thats given to it and not do any thing with it, unless its a standard 480i signal from the regular cable(RF composite) input. You do have the option in the menue of the TV to upscale that input(still looks like crap).
ScreamingSkull @ Dec 6th 2006 11:03AM
I like my 360.
RogueStorm @ Dec 6th 2006 11:04AM
So, if I have an HDTV that supports 480p and 1080i but NOT 720p, this update will allow a 720p game (such as RFOM) to play in 1080i now instead of the 480p it used to make it play in?
LaughingTarget @ Dec 6th 2006 11:09AM
I, too, don't exactly see how this "fixes" the 1080i problem.
Initially, the hierarchy was 1080p>720p>1080i>480p>480i. Now it is 1080p>1080i>720p>480p>480i. If the game cannot run at 1080i because the scaler simply doesn't exist, shuffling the priorities around doesn't make the game suddenly play where it should on sets that only have 1080i and 480p. All it does is make the world more irritating for those of us on 720p sets because now the PS3 wants to give us 1080i, whether we like it or not.
Seriously, how hard is it to just scale everything like the 360 does? Set to 720p? Everything gets scaled to 720p, end of story.
benjamin @ Dec 6th 2006 11:12AM
Maybe I'm ignorant, but why wouldn't the PS3 have a menu like the 360's where you can manually select the console's resolution?
It's not like you often have a need to reset it.
Atilac @ Dec 6th 2006 11:14AM
They will never fix the 1080i problem; unless they go back and include a scaler chip. More or less, this a double edged sword. The first way: fix the problem and add the chip to system, and piss off early adopters of the PS3. The second way: ignore the issue and continue forth without the appropriate chip, and keep happy early adopters this doesn't effect.
Cut off your nose, despite your face.
Nizno @ Dec 6th 2006 11:23AM
"If you disable the 1080i output so everything will play in your preferred 720p, your Blu-ray movies will drop down to 480p."
Wow, so this is news to me....if you buy a ps3 for Bluray and you don't have a 1080p tv you are basically looking at a $600 progressive scan dvd player?
m3mnoch @ Dec 6th 2006 11:38AM
"We're not really sure what problem this update was intended to fix or why the resolution hierarchy isn't user selectable."
"Maybe I'm ignorant, but why wouldn't the PS3 have a menu like the 360's where you can manually select the console's resolution?"
"I don't really get what I'm supposed to choose when I'm given the ability to use RGB or Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr over HDMI."
because writing good, usable software is hard.
because catching corner-cases is hard.
because sony's core competency isn't software.
m3mnoch.
Steve2 @ Dec 6th 2006 11:44AM
The avsforum article is right. This shuffle degrades the experience of those of us who have HDTVs that are native 720p resolution. And turning off 1080i is no option since then BluRay movies go to 480p.
The games are more than playable in 1080i, even on my 720p-native set. But still, it could be better, as it was before.
Sony, this is a big screw-up. Fix it.
Nizno:
No, you don't need 1080p in order to see BluRay movies in better than 480p, you just need an HDTV that supports 1080i, which they all do. The problem here is that if you tell the PS3 you don't support 1080i in at attempt to prefer 720p, then BluRay movies go to 480p.
@ Dec 6th 2006 11:45AM
"I don't really get what I'm supposed to choose when I'm given the ability to use RGB or Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr over HDM"
BD and HD-DVD use the Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr as the native colour space; this has a wider range than RGB and is the better option. How people can spin this as a negative, i dont know.
ThorzHamer @ Dec 6th 2006 11:45AM
"If you disable the 1080i output so everything will play in your preferred 720p, your Blu-ray movies will drop down to 480p."
Wow, so this is news to me....if you buy a ps3 for Bluray and you don't have a 1080p tv you are basically looking at a $600 progressive scan dvd player?
Yeah im a bit puzzled by this also... can anyone confirm or deny this please?
Watership @ Dec 6th 2006 11:52AM
This is deception. The PS3 doesn't have a scaler built into the hardware. It can't take a 720P signal and convert it into 1080i. Simple as that. If I bought resistance on my 2 year old tv, I would be playing it in 480p.
This problem won't be fixed for years, when the 2 year old + HDTVs cycle out.
GeeT @ Dec 6th 2006 11:53AM
"Cut off your nose, despite your face.
Posted at 11:13AM on Dec 6th 2006 by Atilac"
...I *think* you mean "Cut off your nose to spite your face."
Brock @ Dec 6th 2006 12:06PM
I know what the problem is with 1080i on the ps3. I recently got a 72" 1080p toshiba. Thing is it does not accept a 1080p signal instead it accepts 1080i and upconverts it to it's native display. My tv can accept 720p signal fine so it still plays games in 720p ok Resistance looks very sharp) but if you set it manually to 1080i it looks like 480p (big tv like mine 480p looks like crap.) So I assume that your average consumer that has a 1080i set (my old set and my buddies set are this kind of tv) would only get a 480p picture. Guess I upgraded in time.
Kamalot @ Dec 6th 2006 12:25PM
Holdon a second...
Does this mean that Bluray movies won't play on 720p at all? It is either 1080p or 480p but nothing in between?
Kamalot @ Dec 6th 2006 12:25PM
"If you disable the 1080i output so everything will play in your preferred 720p, your Blu-ray movies will drop down to 480p." - Original Article
This sucks. So many TVs have a native resolution of 720p. Why would Bluray movies be downsampled to only 480p? That's insulting!
Ben @ Dec 6th 2006 12:35PM
I'm an early adopter with this problem. My Toshiba only supports 480p and 1080i. Resistance displays in 480p which looks terrible by comparison. Call of Duty on Wii looks almost as good. I don't think they can or will be able to fix this properly. And what's with the text size on 1080i? Its ridiculous. Should be able to adjust that somehow. Anyone else have this problem?
Thabor @ Dec 6th 2006 12:39PM
"If you disable the 1080i output so everything will play in your preferred 720p, your Blu-ray movies will drop down to 480p."
"Wow, so this is news to me....if you buy a ps3 for Bluray and you don't have a 1080p tv you are basically looking at a $600 progressive scan dvd player?"
I suppose, if you are to tragically lazy to turn back on 1080i when you go to play a movie..
joe smith @ Dec 6th 2006 1:05PM
You know, the fact that my 360 just works without me worrying about all this stuff is looking better and better.
Kamalot @ Dec 6th 2006 1:05PM
"I suppose, if you are to tragically lazy to turn back on 1080i when you go to play a movie.."
It isn't about being lazy, it is about the machine being smart enough to do basic things. The competition does not force the user into the screen settings menu to switch resolution when playing a game / watching a movie. Why does the PS3?
If anyone is lazy, it is Sony for not building scaling capabilities into the PS3.
ragunax @ Dec 6th 2006 2:18PM
So I am confused. I am running the PS3 on HDMI to my TV. My TV can display 1080i, 720p, 720i, 480p, 480i.
What should I set the resolution at to have the best quality picture?
rrenna @ Dec 6th 2006 2:21PM
@ 9
--------------
"How many of you *actually* have TV's that cannot display or scale 720p? Or are you just speaking for some otherwise unrepresented huddled mass of offline HDTV owners that apparently can't speak for themselves?
"
---------------
My Panasonic CRT, which I bought LAST CHRISTMAS (
whitefinger @ Dec 6th 2006 2:28PM
Jeff,
My TV does NOT support 720p, but only 480p and 1080i. It is a CRT HDTV, and none of these support 720p. If I try to pump a 720 signal to my TV it has a little hissy fit. It does not scale it up or down.
So yes, there are people like us out there and I know I won't buy a PS3 until this issue is resolved.
Matt @ Dec 6th 2006 2:29PM
@#9, Jeff, I can speak for myself as well, and this *does* affect me. My Toshiba won't display a 720p signal. The TV is about 5 years old. REPRESENT!
@#17, RogueStorm, no, this patch does NOT correct this problem.
Art Guy @ Dec 6th 2006 2:38PM
My 3 year old 65" HDTV can't accept a 720p signal either. PS3 is pretty much worthless to me as it is right now.
RoroCo @ Dec 6th 2006 2:42PM
A) If the game is in 720p, and you do not have 720p on your set, it will still down-convert the game to 480p.
B) Same scenario, but the game has been coded for 1080i, then you will be able to see the game in 1080i. That is what this patch fixed. Still...how many games are in 1080i/p?
C) Same scenario with movies.
The PS3 does not upscale images for movies, PS3 or PS2/1 games. Apparently it may never to this as you require a upscaling chip (which it does not have) in the box.
Maybe they can come out with a software fix, but that may bottle neck the - already ify - system even further.
crankbait @ Dec 6th 2006 2:45PM
Posted by #9 "How many of you *actually* have TV's that cannot display or scale 720p? Or are you just speaking for some otherwise unrepresented huddled mass of offline HDTV owners that apparently can't speak for themselves?"
Are that many people ignorant to the number of HDTV sets that sold for a period of 2+ years without 720p? These sets were made by Mits, Sony, and many other manufacturers. They also cost over 3k in many cases. I am one of those owners and will simply spend my gaming dollar on my 360 rather than suffer with 480p on my HDTV.
Before you go out and claim this is a non-issue do some research on the problem or simply be glad you are not affected.
Deezul @ Dec 6th 2006 2:47PM
I have two CRT rear projection TVs that only do 480p and 1080i. One was purchased in 2004, the other in 2005. I don't have a PS3, just a 360, and this makes me feel even better about my choice. I mean, a scaler couldn't have cost THAT much to include, and how about a menu to simply set what resolution to display? Man, those were the simple ones. DID SONY NOT TEST THE PS3 ON A TV MORE THAN 2 YEARS OLD? Or were the developers that blind that they couldn't tell the difference between 480p and 1080i? If they couldn't, then why even BOTHER CODING for HD?
kod @ Dec 6th 2006 3:27PM
Uhm, newsflash for you '1080i' crt hdtv owners - you're whining about a measly 60 lines of vertical resolution difference between 480p (480 lines) and 1080i (540 lines). The horizontal resolution difference is moot when it comes to CRTs.
Wah, wah, it's sony's fault that I bought a soon-to-be-obsolete TV and they wont let me get 12% more resolution.
Steve2 @ Dec 6th 2006 3:58PM
Deezul:
If putting in a scaler couldn't possibly cost too much, why didn't your TV, which surely cost over $1,000 include one? If it had one (as mine does), you wouldn't have to whine about the PS3 not having one.
Scaling isn't the answer anyway, games should render at all resolutions. Ridge Racer does, Sony should have ensured all developers supported 480i, 480p. 720p and 1080i (1080p optional).
What's this 2 year stuff? My almost 4 year old (Sony) CRT HDTV had a scaler (36XBR800, I've sold it by now). You don't have a scaler if you bought a cheap-jack HDTV. You can even get one TODAY that doesn't take 720p. But you'd be stupid to do so. You would have been stupid to do so two years ago too. FOX, ESPN and ABC all use 720p. Buying a TV without it will hurt you more than just in relation to PS3.
kod:
Stop perpetuating the myth that 1080i only has 540 lines of resolution. It's not true. If that were true, then DVDs, are only 720x240, which isn't true either (DVDs are 480i on-disc and are upconverted specially in the player). I do agree that CRT HDTVs do not come anywhere nearly fully resolving the 1920 lines of resolution in the other direction.
Pete C @ Dec 6th 2006 4:57PM
"Uhm, newsflash for you '1080i' crt hdtv owners - you're whining about a measly 60 lines of vertical resolution difference between 480p (480 lines) and 1080i (540 lines). The horizontal resolution difference is moot when it comes to CRTs."
Are you implying that there isn't much difference between 480p and 1080i? That's funny. I want you to go over to AVSforum and post this exact quote...I can't wait to see it.
CanadiansAreSoPowerful @ Dec 6th 2006 5:20PM
So, tech people, set the record completely straight:
It will only be able to upscale from 720p to 1080i if it has a scaler chip, therefore no firmware update can fix this, and the hardware must be changed in future generations of PS3s?
Correct?
Kev @ Dec 6th 2006 5:23PM
I guess this isn't an annoyance. Oh well.
McGrude @ Dec 6th 2006 7:41PM
My two year old __SONY__ televions accepts 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i signals. If the signal is 720p it downsamples it to 480p, meaning that feeding it a 720p signal is useless. I have my 360 set to output 1080i and everything works great.
Stryyder @ Dec 6th 2006 7:41PM
So, rather than actually coming out with better games, and more gamer features they are pissing and moaning about resolution sizes? So is your game going to be that much more unenjoyable if you can't make out the molecules in an incoming monster's nosehair?
m3mnoch @ Dec 6th 2006 8:58PM
heh. wow. jeff, that was a big, sticky load of stfu.
funny.
m3mnoch.