Class action lawsuit could be building against Microsoft for 360 fall update woes
Team Xbox has singled out a recent posting on the official Xbox forums declaring a class action lawsuit has been filed against Microsoft because of hardware problems initiated by the Xbox 360 Fall Dashboard Update. The alleged plaintiff, known by gamertag REDRUM6622, has supposedly accused Microsoft of a breach of contract, violation of the Washington Consumer Protection Act, and negligence; and he has demanded that a jury weigh the allegations.There has not yet been official verification of the lawsuit's authenticity, but real or not, someone has taken the time to draft a detailed claim -- could it all be for a few laughs? We shall see.
Alleged lawsuit summary posted on the official Xbox forums:
Filed on the 29th of November:
XXXXX XXX, Individually and on behalf of all others similarly situated,
Plaintiff, v.
MICROSOFT CORPORATION, a Washington Corporation, and certain unidentified Microsoft Corporation affiliates, Defendants. )))))))))))))
Case No.
CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT FOR:
1. BREACH OF CONTRACT;
2. VIOLATION OF CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT (RCW 19.86); AND
3. NEGLIGENCE
JURY TRIAL DEMANDED
SUMMARY OF CLAIMS
1. This is a class action against Microsoft and its affiliates for Breach of Contract, violation of the Washington Consumer Protection Act ("CPA") (RCW 19.86) and, alternatively, Negligence. Plaintiff brings this action on behalf of himself and all other persons who experienced hardware problems with their Microsoft Xbox 360 gaming consoles following installation of Microsoft's Fall 2006 Update for the Xbox 360.
THE PARTIES
2. Plaintiff XXXX XXX is an individual resident of California. Plaintiff is the original purchaser and current owner of an Xbox 360 gaming console. Plaintiff brings this action individually and as a class action under Rule 23 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure on behalf of the class specified herein.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
DiahrreaMan @ Dec 7th 2006 12:03PM
I took a con law class back in my senior year in high school, so I have some vague idea of how these things work. There's as much chance for this to be real as it can also turn out to be complete bluffing. I only looked at federal court cases and the decisions, dissents, and where they tied to the Cons., so I'm not sure. Anyone out there who is more adept in this area?
STILL WAITING FOR GOLDEN SUN 3 DAMMIT!
Kuan @ Dec 7th 2006 12:08PM
I think people suing to the degree and frequency they do is ridiculous. It hinders bussiness and just adds to teh already superfluos amount of red tape.
@ Dec 7th 2006 12:10PM
They (plaintiffs) dont need to actually make any money or 'win' this suit; they just need to embarrass MS into replacing their consoles for free.
If they get on-going media attention, they've already won.
Captain Obvious @ Dec 7th 2006 12:13PM
This is silly. You don't just file a class action suit. You have to get the class certified. Without certification, you can't bring claims on behalf of other similarly situated plaintiffs.
Alice Unchained @ Dec 7th 2006 12:19PM
haha, sue microsoft? hope this bunch has plenty of money. They'll do to this "class" in court what they did to this guy's console with the fall update.
*Launch wave console. No problems.
The1 @ Dec 7th 2006 12:20PM
How do you sign up? MS screwed me on this.
Sir Matches @ Dec 7th 2006 12:21PM
this is freaking retarded, guy only wants money, i got mine replaced for free if people were patient enough. Ugh *vomits*
Spartacus @ Dec 7th 2006 12:22PM
I would be interested in what exactly "hardware problems" consists of. Unless the fall update rendered 360 units inoperable on a LARGE scale, I don't think the suit will stick. A few defective devices aren't grounds for a lawsuit, it's the electronic industry norm.
Quanji @ Dec 7th 2006 12:25PM
I think this is the dumbest thing ever. I have had the dreaded red ring of death on my 360 TWICE. First time I sent it back and they returned it repaired and the second time it happened I called them again and they said that I should not be having this problem and they were very sorry and then gave me a new system. They even went so far as to re-file my warranty paperwork for the new serial number so I didn't have to. Things break, it happens, but just because our electronics break doesn't give us a reason to break all sense of reason from us. Lawsuits like this are what is driving prices up everywhere. I hope this is a joke.
logikil @ Dec 7th 2006 12:30PM
This will go absolutely nowhere. MS acknowledged that there was a problem with the update in that it did not adequately check for the previous update and ended up messing up 360's with original firmware (those sent back as replacements, and systems that had just recently shifted from store shelves to homes.) This happens. It happens with computers, and anything that has firmware that is upgradeable. It's a lesson learned, and you can bet t won't happen, at least in that way, again. But you will not win a class action lawsuit because of this. MS customer service is generally very good, and i am sure that those who had this happen would be able to get their systems replaced if they took the time to call in and get it addressed.
Freaking lawsuits, stupid.
Intentless @ Dec 7th 2006 12:31PM
Not to mention it helps drive up prices because if a class action lawsuit were to occur they are just going to pass the fees to us the consumer... Nobody is going to win. By the way what problems occured. The only one I saw was it automatically muted some people but once unmuted everything was all set... Some small connectivity issues but nothing detrimental...
Josh @ Dec 7th 2006 12:33PM
"2. I think people suing to the degree and frequency they do is ridiculous. It hinders bussiness and just adds to teh already superfluos amount of red tape."
Bill, is that you?
Bluestone @ Dec 7th 2006 12:35PM
Is this guy a retard? Filing a lawsuit AGAINST Microsoft is pretty stupid.
KaneRobot @ Dec 7th 2006 12:46PM
"The alleged plaintiff, known by gamertag REDRUM6622,"
Best lawsuit ever. Witnesses will include yoHal0daddy and poopONchest
Calviin @ Dec 7th 2006 12:47PM
I don't think people should be afraid to sue a company, no matter how big the company is. Maybe those of you who think they should be afraid to (or are calling the retarded), well, maybe your just happy with caving to someone bigger than you. So be it.
Also, the sentence, "Lawsuits like this are what is driving prices up everywhere" is just dumb. Microsoft and other businesses don't generally just raise the price to cover the cost of a lawsuit. Cost is determined by supply and demand, as most people know. If you raise the price higher than the supply/demand reccommends, you just hurt your sales and profits, not help.
jason @ Dec 7th 2006 12:49PM
# 13 and filing a lawsuit against Mcdonalds for coffee being TOO hot isn't???
I'm one of the few that are affected by the fall update problem. The point is MS is charging us 140.00 to repair something they fu*ked up!!! Now.. is that fair?
Trust me.. if you check out the xbox boards you'll see a few 1500+ posts on thios problem. It's not a joke.
Kumar Shah @ Dec 7th 2006 12:53PM
I remember the DoJ tried to do something against MS too. lol
Buckshot @ Dec 7th 2006 12:56PM
Don't change your DVD firmware and you will not have problems. HaXX0rz.
Otakuon @ Dec 7th 2006 12:56PM
The point is not so much to get any money out of M$ (byeond a refund on the $140 "repair fee" that M$ insists on charging people to fix a problem THEY caused)...the reason for doing this is to get M$ to admit that they made a HUGE mistake and that they need to take responsibility in fixing it instead of sticking their head in the sand....you can go on YouTube and view dozens of videos of people experiecing the havoc that the fall "update" created...my system that was effected had a build date of April 2006 and it failed in the EXACT same way that all those videos on YouTube show...so you can't say this is just an isolated incident or that it is affecting only a very small portion of the Xbox user base...
BIGGEN @ Dec 7th 2006 1:01PM
ok, so since i'm bored and home sick from work, i checked this guy out. the fall update was october 31 right? his last played game was fight night on november 14. he even played dead rising on november 2. tell me again how the update caused his 360 to crash and burn. the only way november 14 could have been the day he downloaded the update is if he had his settings to not connect to LIVE automatically. but even if he had done that, the info that he last played dead rising on november 2, wouldn't show up like that. LIVE doesn't backlog when your games were played if you don't connect to it. so he had to have downloaded the update the day it came out, played without problems for two weeks, then all of a sudden his 360 dies? that's BS. the update would have killed it that day if it was even capable of doing so. i call BS.
RM @ Dec 7th 2006 1:03PM
this is freaking retarded, guy only wants money, i got mine replaced for free if people were patient enough. Ugh *vomits*
Posted at 12:19PM on Dec 7th 2006 by Sir Matches 0 stars
Really ? I bought a 360 for myself and my nephew, and both of them have problems. I made the mistake of only getting one warranty ( oversight ) and now MS says quote " sorry, your out of warranty we can only help you for 129.00 plus shipping " Kiss my ass.
They screw it up and want you to pay to fix it?
I dont think so. Where do I sign up.
Quando @ Dec 7th 2006 1:03PM
Class actions are very expensive and complicated suits, especially against MS. Unless this guy has a warchest and a clear vision of a huge payoff (i.e. he works for a major plaintiff's firm), he is just kiddin' around on the boards. [Apple did settle a class action about iPod batteries, so there may be a firm out there doing these sort of suits]. The complaint isnt drafted very well, but that may not be fatal.
Otherwise, the only contract that is breached here is the guy's contract with sanity.
Desert Orchid @ Dec 7th 2006 1:04PM
Who the heck names their gamertag after a race horse anyway?
Todd @ Dec 7th 2006 1:06PM
Wow, that's dumb. Nobody is forced into using the online services. The online services are not a requirement for being able to use the machine. Microsoft can claim the machine is "working as intended" and squash that guy.
Derrick @ Dec 7th 2006 1:07PM
Microsoft has forced this update for users to continue using services that they have paid for. If you want to use the Xbox Live service that you have paid for you are required to install this update. If this update then causes 360's to crash that weren't crashing before the update (a) microsoft should admint fault (which they have yet to do), and should either (b) allow users to rollback to a stable version of the firmware that does not disable their 360's or repair the console's that their update destroyed free of charge... This is not a case of hardware just malfunctioning, this is a case of software being forced on users then forcing those customers to pay to repair the damage that microsoft has inflicted.
Had microsoft claimed responsibilty for these issues and help users affected by these issues then they would not be getting sued. neglecting their customers have led to this lawsuit, not greed, as some have suggested.
Captain Obvious @ Dec 7th 2006 1:07PM
What is this junk about MS charging for repairs? I sent my 360 in on Monday for repairs. Free of charge. Shipping paid. Cost to me = $0.00.
And I get to spend some much needed time with my DS. Thanks MS, I needed a break from the 360. My wife wanted to watch some TV.
BIGGEN @ Dec 7th 2006 1:07PM
BTW, LIVE will update the day you got your last achievements when you reconnect to it, but not the last time you played the game. he hasn't had achievements on his last two played games since september 24. and that was dead rising. which further backs up my point that he played for two weeks after the update, then all of a sudden his system dies. think about it.
Jason @ Dec 7th 2006 1:07PM
we heard this last year after launch too...this will only go as far as the blogosphere will take it - it's got no shot in the courts.
nodnetni @ Dec 7th 2006 1:08PM
Yeah this is kind of crazy. You get yourself a $300-$400+ system, it works fine, you get past the 90 day or 1 year warranty and and update for the system comes out and you need said warranty to fix a problem with a game. The update bricks your system, your warranty is out, the only way to get it fixed it to pay $130+ to get it fixed or have a referbed system sent to you.
Really should people be afraid to update their Xbox 360's? I think Microsoft should cover any problems that come with updates. (not for modded systems though)
Derrick @ Dec 7th 2006 1:10PM
BIGGEN,
If you go onto Microsoft's forums you will see that this issue is not an instantaneous killer. Generally users experience freezing at random points in their games, becmoing more and more frequent until the red lights of death appear... don't call redrumm a liar (which is what you are implying) without doing a little more investigation on the subject.
Captain Obvious @ Dec 7th 2006 1:13PM
@Derrick
Read your XBox Live Terms of Service. There is a clause in there that states that required updates will be provided from time to time and continued use of the service is dependant upon downloading the updates.
robrob @ Dec 7th 2006 1:15PM
1500 out of 8 million is VERY VERY small dude.
also, most "feedback" on official boards is always people bitching. I know when i buy something aand it works likle i expect it to, I dont rush to the manufacturersw message boards and post a "my product does what i expect it to do" thread. But you can bet your class action lawsuit i will scream and bitch and moan if i am having a problem.
MS has been great with their service policies so far, IMHO. I have a luanch machine that hasnt had any issues, but the warranty extension was nice.
anyhow, lol at this "lawsuit".
RGD86 @ Dec 7th 2006 1:17PM
This is just ridiculous, not to mention frivilous. You can get your 360 replaced for a lot less money than suing Microsoft...
BIGGEN @ Dec 7th 2006 1:17PM
hey Derrick, i just did that "investigating" and a handful of people experienced crashes the same day as the update. so, i call those coincidence as opposed to the millions who didn't experience this. also, i don't doubt that his 360 is dead (basically judging by his last played info), i doubt highly that the update caused his 360 to die or anyone's to die for that matter. and to sue MS is BS. they can't just say, "oh ok, well let's get you a new system then, in fact, NEW SYSTEMS for all!" so yes, i'm calling him a liar in the fact that the update killed his system. so don't call me out for recognizing an obvious lie to try and get $$.
Derrick @ Dec 7th 2006 1:25PM
@Captain Obvious,
That's fine... But shouldn't microsoft be held responsible for testing these updates such that they don't break the machines that they are updating?
If you took your car to have the oil changed and they forgot to close the oil release valve, shouldn't the company that changed your oil be held responsible for damaging your car?
I updated my console (changed the oil) and my 360 has been freezing non-stop since said update (car's been broken), shouldn't microsoft be held responsible for breaking my 360 (shouldn't the autoshop be held responsible for damaging my car)? i was just following the maintenance schedule, per se.
Derrick @ Dec 7th 2006 1:30PM
AS of 1:30 EST there were 1995 post in this thread created about a week after the fall update was created...
http://forums.xbox.com/67/7864073/ShowPost.aspx#7864073
hardly "a handful"... and that is only one of many threads in the MS forums on the topic...
by calling him a liar you are also calling me a liar, as I have also had issues with the fall update... and my 360 ran perfect before the update (since februrary).
Fortyseven @ Dec 7th 2006 1:32PM
I came in off RSS and it truncated the headline to "Class action lawsuit could be building against..." -- I thought for sure it was going to be against Nintendo for the Wii strap failures. ;) (Not that I'd wish it, but I could easily imagine it happening.)
Matt @ Dec 7th 2006 1:36PM
Microsoft had acklowledged a problem with the Fall 06 update, and that was fixed within 48 hrs.
The Community team blog (Gamerscoreblog), has information:
http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2006/11/01/538613.aspx
Scott @ Dec 7th 2006 1:36PM
If what's posted above is the only information contained in the complaint, I can tell you that no lawyer filed it. It looks to me like someone saw something similar online and just tried to mimick it. It's worded unprofessionally, is missing lots of information, and is organized strangely. You don't just list your causes of action (e.g. "negligence"), you provide the relevant statute, facts, and related information which supports such a claim. I'm not saying that some random citizen didn't file this by himself (although I'm 99% sure it's fake), I'm just saying that no lawyer filed this.
biltmore @ Dec 7th 2006 1:37PM
The fact that the update fucked up peoples consoles (and it's not a fucking rumour people) and they're charging $140 to fix it is complete bullshit. I'm not fucking made out of money ... they need to take responsibility and come out and say something.
Derrick @ Dec 7th 2006 1:41PM
Matt,
Are you saying that microsoft is only capable of having one issue with an update at a time???
They fixed an issue with the update not being able to be installed on 360's (an installer issue), this lawsuit is regarding an issue with the actual update itself.
jayntampa @ Dec 7th 2006 1:44PM
I'm sorry, anyone that states that lawsuits don't effect prices is patently unaware of economics. Check out the medical industry. A company doesn't sell a product at a loss, all costs incurred by the company are rolled into the product to make a profit. If the company can't make a profit because of costs, they go out of business. Frivolous lawsuits are the bane of American life.
Sometimes bad things happen -- there is nothing in life that says you deserved to get paid everytime you have crappy luck.
Frivilous
DarkenShugar @ Dec 7th 2006 1:45PM
Here's a fix. Turn off your Xbox. Take out the hard drive. Turn it back on and fool around in the dashboard. Turn off your Xbox. Replace hard drive and turn your system back on. That fixed all my crash problems since fall update.
Robotic House Plant @ Dec 7th 2006 1:45PM
Here's the thing, I'm sure Microsoft does test updates prior to release. I have not experienced any problems with their updates, so I'm unclear on what happened or the circumstances involved, other that what I'm reading, but I have to ask, when this did happen, did the person contact Microsoft for a resolution and was that resolution met? If Microsoft was informed and attempted relief, then I don't see the point of the trial, other than to attempt greenmail.
I seriously don't believe Microsoft would have ever purposely made an attempt to inhibit a console, when that very console is what generates money for them. I believe Microsoft would have made every effort to remedy any problem they may have directly caused. If there were not the cause of the problem, I'm sure they would have offered options for relief.
Grindstone @ Dec 7th 2006 1:51PM
I spend the majority of my day suing people for car accidents, work comp accidents, med malpractice claims, and other little tidbits. Even the Wendy's E. Coli scare back in the `90's got this law office some nice $$.
The McDonald's case regarding the spilt hot coffee is generally referred to as a frivilous law suit, but allow me to educate some of you: that coffee was 180 degrees, which was 30 degrees warmer than average. McDonalds used this practice to help keep the coffee to retain its flavor longer. Also, when said woman burnt herself, she permanently damaged nerve ending in her groin region; specifically, her vagina. So imagine having sex with no feelings, ever. That was the main reason - which you never hear about - that she got the millions in permanent physical damges.
Now if you think that all this suing is not raising prices for consumers, you are kidding yourself. The main reason that insurance rates raise every year is to cover the raising costs of litigation fees, settlements, and general office costs associated with all that. Suing people is now the default mechanism for getting ahead in life, rather than working hard which is just too tedious for our lifestyle now.
As for suing Msoft... not advisable. I doubt this claim will get much further than the complaint. They hire absolutely brilliant litigators and can throw an insane amount of money into a lawsuit which will overwhelm any competition. It sounds mean, but quite frankly, every insurance company does the same. I should know, I am currently being sued, and my insurance company is drilling the other side. This is the 3rd time I have been sued - one for each decade I guess. The chance for an average american to be sued is almost at 5 per life. 2 more to go!
P.S. I am leaving this career permanently at the end of the month.
BIGGEN @ Dec 7th 2006 2:09PM
well derrick, i guess i'm calling you a liar then huh? LOL you took it way too personal dude. and yes, i say a handful because your "1995" posts compared to the millions of people who didn't have the problem, IS A FUCKING HANDFUL! and i still say that the update didn't kill your 360, coincidence did. no one knows how many of these "victims" of MS's plot to destroy your 360 actually had their console in a tight place where overheating caused the death. an electronic item can only take so much extreme temperature change before it starts to breakdown and finally die. there are so many variables and liars out there, that your 1995 is a moot point. now, i'm not saying you're an idiot, just a liar.
Niobium @ Dec 7th 2006 2:30PM
My console was one of the ones affected by the fall update. After I updated the console started locking up.
I called microsoft, and even though my console is a year old and 9 months out of warranty they replaced it free of charge. I guess it all depends on the Technical Support rep you talk to.
Thryon @ Dec 7th 2006 2:39PM
My launch system finaly died. It was not caused by the Fall Update. MS is sending me a coffin, free of charge. I am playing my second console at this time, which was also updated, and no problems (so far).
I am not shocked that this happened. I have come to expect crappy electronics over time. My Ipod shuffle died in less than 6 months, then an Ipod nano in about 4 months...I am now using Samsung and very satisfied (so far).
The important thing to understand is that things do break. This happens. I actualy went through 3 original NES units in the first year, as it would only give me the now famous blinking blue screen.
Thryon @ Dec 7th 2006 2:42PM
"I am playing my second console at this time, which was also updated, and no problems (so far)."
Just to clarify, I had two units (since July) and I am playing the second unit. I have not received the replacement console yet, still waiting for the coffin.
Derrick @ Dec 7th 2006 3:01PM
FYI -
my 360 is sitting in an open air av shelf... there are no ventilation issues with my setup. and my freezing issues started immediatly after the fall update was downloaded.
those 1995 post are only a representative sample of the users experincing the problem... only a small percentage or 360 users are posting on microsoft's forums.
and you are quite the classy guy BIGGEN. you feel cool now???
and btw, what exactly am i lying about???
- my 360 IS freezing
- it did not freeze before the fall update
- no other changes were made to my setup that would cause such an issue
- and many others have had the same experience i have had which has led me to conclude that this is more than a coincidence
which of these statement's is a lie??? you wanna apologize?