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Reader Comments (32)

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 10:21AM aforty said

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OK, that's fine so long as R-rated movies can also no longer be advertised.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 10:25AM (Unverified) said

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I think it goes a little too far. There's nothing wrong with advertising because, as #1 says, what about R-rated movies then?

I think it's fair that the advertising, if it's going to be in such a public place, should exclude certain imagery for the sake of concerned parents. This would include a lot of fashion and perfume ads too.

Is it a willing compromise that public places should not advertise with R-rated content...even if advertising an R-rated product is OK? I'd say that's fair.

In this case, the GTA ads are most certainly not R-rated. Not the ones I've seen anyway.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 10:34AM (Unverified) said

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i suspect it was because this particular game has such a reputation. GTA is looked at like carmageddon or postal. Games that encorage people to commit crimes. All the other games you mentioned are not like that. movies are not interactive so you are just watching it.

In the end the ads were removed from the T because of the political consequences of having them there ie it was unpopular with the public. That sounds democratic to me.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 10:34AM (Unverified) said

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I find this especially silly and hypocritical because beer and whiskey ads are routinely plastered all over every major T station in the city. I mean, when I moved up here a year ago, there were Johnny Walker ads on every wall at Kenmore. A few months ago, there was a massive picture of either Makers Mark or Dewars on the floor and walls of the South Station stop. Kids can't buy alcohol, much like they can't buy GTA or M-Rated games. So why don't they ban all the booze ads?

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 10:39AM (Unverified) said

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"Is it a willing compromise that public places should not advertise with R-rated content...even if advertising an R-rated product is OK? I'd say that's fair.

In this case, the GTA ads are most certainly not R-rated. Not the ones I've seen anyway."

Quite right. Living in the area myself I can say that to my knowledge the most "risque" image they had was of a gun. That's it. True, the game is rated M, but if I had to use the game ratings to rate other products there are many ads advertising things that should get an AO rating. As mentioned before, entire stations plastered with beer ads. And as we all know, beer is 21+ (in the US).

But alas, things never go both ways as they should.
Maybe that's why I'm so bitter and cynical.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 10:44AM Fhaze said

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Isn't their an "A" rating for games that cross over into the "porn" category? By this reasoning, yes everyone who says "R" rated movies should not be allowed is correct. Along with any other ads that a minor might see for a product they are not allowed, or should not be allowed to buy.

-1 respect for MBTA

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 10:47AM (Unverified) said

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Debbie Does Dallas and Deep Throat FTW

crubs on free speech FTL

Posted: Dec 16th 2006 1:29AM (Unverified) said

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Ok sweet so when do they go after budweiser who has managed to fill orange and red line trains with ads?

What's so wrong about cartoon pictures of people's faces, a helicopter and boat followed by the rating of the game being listed right with it? Or advertising for rated R movies, Tv17 series and booze?

Pretty sure being subjected to romantized beer ads has more of an effect on young minds than a games cover art.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 11:26AM (Unverified) said

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Again, there's the false connection between M rated games and X rated movies. So far, I haven't played any games for any major console that featured X-rated content. As of yet, Rockstar has failed to release "Grand Theft Auto: Nailing The Pizza Boy" or "Shaving Ryan's Privates: Vice City".

Even the very, very few AO games out there don't even come close to X rated content (and are, at best, NC-17 material). The truth is that the only games I've ever seen that could be called X rated were, come to think of it, freely available on the internet and required no advertising. Not to mention absurdly low budget.

If they want to pull M rated ads for games, they need to pull R rated ads for movies. It won't happen. And this ban will never stand up in court, just like every other Culture War bullcrap ban that local politicians try to institute when their tiny, self interested brains fail to come up with any useful way to serve their constituents and their country.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 11:38AM (Unverified) said

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I'm willing to bet that this ban is entirely forgotten when someone realizes Halo 3 is rated M.

--Branewalker

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 11:38AM (Unverified) said

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I think some of you are taking this a little too personally. Look at the name of the organization that brought about this change: Campaign for a Commercial-free Childhood. It doesn't say Campaign for a Videogame Ad-free Childhood. I would bet anything that this group is also against all the other types of ads you mentioned too. However, you have to start somewhere, and since videogames are the "hot" issue right now when it comes to "protecting" kids, it was probably an easy one to start with. Kids ARE affected by advertising, for ALL kinds of different products, and I definitely agree with the aims of this organization to protect kids from being influenced by ANY advertising. Don't fault them for going after the low-hanging fruit first.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 11:42AM (Unverified) said

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Welcome to Massachusetts. I find this hilarious considering that two holiday seasons ago South Station- one of largest and most prominent stations in Boston- was absolutely covered head to toe with Johnny Walker advertising. I'm talking huge banners, and "Johnny Walker pathway" that lead to more advertising.

They were must have paid a pretty penny to be the primary advertiser in South Station, and there we come to the crux of the issue. If you have either money, a schrill voice, or political connections you can get your adgenda pushed in Mass.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 11:48AM bunnyraven said

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Man, do I love double standards. I did a paper on game violence recently, and know from reading so much crap that all this nonsense will never amount to anything. Like its been said here before, banning M rated games is like stripping game devs. from free speech, and if you are willing to go on ahead and ban them, then you might as well ban everything else that can "harm" a child's mind. At that we'd end up in some totalitarian society where the gov. decided what is ok to watch and what isn't. It should all be left to the parents to decide..but wait, they're to busy with their own lives to give a damn. My two cents.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 11:57AM (Unverified) said

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As a Boston resident, a few notes.

First, it's worth noting that the GTA ads in question were up in the subway for about a month before people complained and pulled them. This wasn't an issue until the Boston Herald and its slipshod reporting finally noticed.

Second, in terms of ad campaigns that actually have appeared on the T, almost all of the ones Dennis actually mentions (except the NRA) have been advertised on the MBTA at one point or another.

Well, I guess the T will just have to get even more alcohol advertising - by far, the most heavily promoted product on the ads the system is booze.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 12:25PM ZeroCorpse said

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We could end all this idiocy by implement ONE rating system for ALL media, instead of different ones for movies, music, literature, and video games.

Just go with the MPAA ratings. Is Bill O'Reilly's book R-rated or PG-13? Is the new P-Diddy album rated "R" or is it "NC-17"? Should little Billy play the R-rated Grand Theft Auto IV, or should mommy & daddy get him a PG-rated game instead? This month's issue of Amazing Spider-Man contains scenes of graphic violence and swear words, so it's rated "R".

Simple. Everybody recognizes this one system. When I sold games, parents were clueless about the ESRB ratings, and I always had to equate the ESRB ratings with MPAA ratings, which the parents knew and recognized. "M is like R" was a phrase I spoke a lot, and it got annoying. Why use "M" and expect the idiot 90% of people to learn something new, when we could just use "R" instead?!?!?!

The result of this sort of consolidation would be that all media would be held to the SAME STANDARDS, and video games, music, and comic books wouldn't get more severe ratings based on what they are. They would have the same criteria as a movie for an R-rating or the dreaded NC-17. You couldn't hold up these forms of media and say "b-b-but they're for kids, so the rating is ONE WORSE than for a movie." because that's BULLSHIT, and everybody knows it.

The average gamer is in his 30s these days. The rest of the population needs to learn to DEAL WITH IT.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 12:25PM (Unverified) said

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I think the funniest part of this whole situation is the name of the group. Campaign for a Commercial-free Childhood. How much do you want to bet at atleast a few members of this group got home from work, gave their kid a Happy Meal and plopped them down in front of the T.V. while they got ready for thier meetings regarding this issue. The Happy Meal has a commercial (the toy)The T.V. has commercials, and depending on what they were watching, the show might have been a commercial! ("Mommy! I want a Megazord just like the one they have on Power Rangers!")

Fighting for a commercial free childhood is useless. The only way to achieve this would be to lock your kid in their room with no contact with the outside world.

I personnely think that Anti-Video game groups need to learn from the past. First it was Comic Books that caused the corupption of America's youth, then it was Rock music, and now Video Games. Comics and Rock are still around, and Video Games will survive this.

Now if you will excuse me, I'm going to go play Ultimate Spider-Man while listening to Blue Oyster Cults Greatest Hits. Take that above mentioned groups.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 12:33PM (Unverified) said

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I don't think this is much of a victory for pro-censorship forces, especially since this policy has precisely nothing whatsoever to do with the game ads in question and everything to do with the bad blood between the city government, the state Legislature and the MBTA. Mennino and the legislators don't care about these ads; they care about making the T look bad and diverting attention away from what they could do to keep the upcoming fare hike from happening.

I also doubt it'll have much longevity as Grabuskas has said up front that it's only being done to shut this group up. Somehow I doubt the T will waste time and money fighting the inevitable lawsuit it knows it'll lose, especially since NORML established a precedent (something Grabuskas is no doubt well aware of).

In short, we've got a tempest in a teapot over city politics, not creeping destruction of our civil rights.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 12:48PM (Unverified) said

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"The result of this sort of consolidation would be that all media would be held to the SAME STANDARDS, and video games, music, and comic books wouldn't get more severe ratings based on what they are. They would have the same criteria as a movie for an R-rating or the dreaded NC-17."

While I do agree with your idea, you're terribly mistaken if you think there are any concrete standards for movie ratings. Go check out the movie "This film is not yet rated" if you can. Scary insight into the movie rating system.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 1:03PM (Unverified) said

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Why shouldn't violent games be treated like porn? They are both for adults. Violent games depict acts of brutality, while porn usually just depicts people having sex. In real life, murder is a lot worst can censensual sex, so I don't understand why violence is so much more accepted than sex in American media. I don't understand how beating prostitutes with a baseball bat is more acceptable than the Hot Coffee mod. However I'm not an American, and many things about the United States just don't make sense to the rest of the world.

Posted: Dec 16th 2006 4:11AM CBXweb said

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They got an angry email for me.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 5:31PM (Unverified) said

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@15: How you could come to a conclusion like this is beyond me. Unless you did some research, you have no idea who the members of this group are, the extent of their beliefs, or how they apply them to their personal lives. So because you disagree with what they've done, you just conveniently assume they are all hypocrites so you can write off their opinions and ignore the point. You seem to be an expert at demonizing views you disagree with, are you a politician?

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 1:44PM (Unverified) said

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@Evan

"Why shouldn't violent games be treated like porn? They are both for adults. Violent games depict acts of brutality, while porn usually just depicts people having sex."

Because violent movies don't get treated like porn. Even the ones more gory and violent that the most violent video game. And therein lies the hypocracy. R-rated movies with people getting gutted, dismembered, and put through a meat grinder are ok to display on the MBTA billboards, because they allow R rated movies. But a game like Halo, where there's barely any blood, no guts, and only minor swearing, gets treated like it's A Night in Paris?

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 3:00PM (Unverified) said

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This is so ridiculous. It's not like they are advertising someone playing Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories and shooting some cops on the ad. I think this is pretty unconstitutional. But I do know that the MBTA is known for being urged to censor a lot of their ads. Two years ago they were being forced to remove alcohol ads, yet here in NYC the MTA allows alcohol ads and you'll see VODKA on many of the rear ends of buses.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 3:15PM Captain Obvious said

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This presents absolutely zero free speech implications. This is not proprietary government activity. The city has the right to choose its advertising partners, just as anyone else does. If the city wants to sell advertising space to Johnny Walker, but not to GTA or Halo 3 or any M rated game, they are free do so, because the city owns the trains and the ad space.

It would be a different story if the city tried to ban or regulate M rated ads on billboards or buses owned by private companies. That would implicate free speech concerns.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 3:47PM baby sea tuna said

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"Take that above mentioned groups."

I really like the wording of this sentence.

Additionally, I think that if the video game industry really wants as many rights as all those other industries (Alcohol, tobacco, firearms, etc.) they need some good lobbyists on Capitol Hill. Anyone know how I could get that job? I could use some bribes...

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 5:13PM (Unverified) said

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Regarding Evan's post #18. Very interesting point.

It's true that violence is much more acceptable in mainstream US media than sex, and nowhere is this more apparent than in video games. Having lived in both the United States and Europe, I would be very surprised to see a similar controversy over a game in the stations of the London Underground or the Paris Metro.

Most Europeans still do find it odd that Americans are so accepting of brutal violence in their movies and games, but raise a ruckus if even a hint of consensual sex appears in the same forums.

I think it's the fact that GTA will forever be associated with sexual content, not extreme violence, that bothers people so much about it. And that may not be what people should be most concerned about.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 5:14PM jccalhoun said

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Why don't videogames use the MPAA ratings? Because they can't. The wonderful MPAA has trademarked the use of those letters as a rating. A few years ago Marvel comics tried to use them on their comics and the MPAA forced them to change.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 5:14PM (Unverified) said

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@The ZeroCorpse

the reason that we have multiply rating systems is because since the MPAA is not a government body but a private company they feel that if their registered trademarks (the ratings) get plastered onto games, books, CDS, etc that A) they will simply not have the manpower to rate every form of media, and B) that their rating system will become watered down causing them to lose control of their copyrights

when the ESRB was being formed they actually wanted to use the MPAA ratings, but the MPAA wanted to charge a good deal of money for the use, so the ESRB decided to just make their own ratings

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 6:00PM Keithustus said

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According to a search of www.commercialexploitation.org using Google's advanced search procedures, NINE pages on their site include information about R-Rated movies, while ONE HUNDRED THIRTY FIVE include the words video games. Make your own conclusions.

Posted: Dec 15th 2006 10:09PM (Unverified) said

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@Captain Obvious

"This presents absolutely zero free speech implications. This is not proprietary government activity. The city has the right to choose its advertising partners, just as anyone else does."

Actually, the government is bound by by the constitution to be an equal opportunity advertiser. Take Two could sue for discrimination, and based on past cases involving the MBTA, TT would win. A pro-marijuana group sued and won the right to advertise on MBTA trains, because the 3-judge court ruled that the MBTA, as a public utility, had to allow freedom of speech, and couldn't justify denying an advertiser simply because it disagreed with the message or the product. As long as the ad itself didn't violate any laws, they couldn't legally deny them an ad contract.

Posted: Dec 17th 2006 12:03AM (Unverified) said

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Well I don't agree with it 100%
This is not going to help the children at all. The point of advertising is to make the person want to play or buy the game. The person who controls the games these kids buy is their parents. Advertising will not cause the children to become increasingly violent, poor parenting will.

As I see it, their are two ways to parent your child: Defensively or Proactively.
Defensively is to attempt to censor all of the violence, sex, drugs, rock and roll, or whatever from your child's life. The problem with this style of parenting is that the children need to know that all of this stuff is out there because when they do come in contact with it (and they will because no amount of censorship can prevent whom they associate with or what they are eventually exposed to) the poor kids won't know how to handle it.
Proavtive parenting is to teach your child between right and wrong and how to deal with these types of problems. No child would grow up to be a carjacking, murderous person if their parents took the time to sit down and talk with them. It is ultimately the parents job to ensure that their kids turn out well, not the corporation's.

Posted: Dec 17th 2006 3:02PM (Unverified) said

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Is there a "War" or something that the "Boys in Washington" should be concern about?

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