Sony against the world
Motley Fool examines Sony as a portfolio investment given the PS3's rough publicity ride, launch shortages, and tough beats at the hands of the buzz-worthy Wii and solid Xbox 360 performance to date. The article suggests further difficulty for Sony calling the one-two punch of the DS and Wii "difficult to overcome," in addition to the fact that a Microsoft game -- Gears of War for the 360 -- was the best selling game in November, not a PlayStation title.Ultimately, however, the article contests that despite Sony's recent problems (and there's a lot of 'em), investors shouldn't count Sony out in the long run because PS3 shortages won't always exists and early Wii praise could falter over time. But objectively speaking, what possible scenario would reverse the PS3's fortunes? Killer exclusives? Early price drop? What's it going to take?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
KineticOnline @ Dec 16th 2006 7:25PM
A miracle or a big price drop (pre launch in europe), a public apology for screwing europe over and over, rumble, 1080i, i'll stop now before i loose my temper again
serb @ Dec 16th 2006 7:29PM
all they need is more units and ppl are gonna buy it like crazy.........THATS ALL THEY NEED no matter wat these little fanboys say
Xeno @ Dec 16th 2006 7:30PM
Honestly, I would probably pick one up if it didn't cost three round trip tickets to California...
reppy @ Dec 16th 2006 7:32PM
I'll wait at least 3 revisions to see what kind of hardware problems crop up.
Antec @ Dec 16th 2006 7:35PM
just release a metal gear solid 4 demo on PSN (hell, even a high def exclusive trailer would work) and a REAL-TIME video of Killzone 2. That should boost spirits.
nabisco @ Dec 16th 2006 7:51PM
Serb is right, you are all slaves to Sony. Once Sony starts pumpin' more units the crapbox 1.5 and that tiny-ass kiddy thing will fail. Microsoft and Nintendo FTL.
nabisco @ Dec 16th 2006 7:54PM
Just kidding.:)
ncxcstud @ Dec 16th 2006 7:56PM
One of my best friends, who manages a Gamestop in SC, has 5 PS3s in stock...and he can't sell them. No one will buy them...and he's mentioned it many times when customers walk in...
That's crazy...The PS3 should be sold out...but, if you want one and you're near Newberry, SC...go to the only Gamestop there and you can have one...
Neebs @ Dec 16th 2006 7:56PM
Jeez, fanboy much nabisco?
nabisco @ Dec 16th 2006 7:58PM
Didn't you read my second post Neebs, I was making fun of Serb.
ivan @ Dec 16th 2006 8:02PM
drop the price to 250, change the console color to white, take off the long "playstation 3" spiderman logo lookalike and just slap the three letters "PS3", then release a gears of war clone. I'd buy that.
TheGameMaster @ Dec 16th 2006 8:05PM
Screw Sony. I like PS1 and PS2, but like the Xmen movie trilogy, the 3rd one just sucks. IF they dropped it to maybe $400 for the 60 then MAYBE i'd buy it. But honestly i'd rather wait until it's around $300 because anything above $300 for a system is just complete bullshit
David4 @ Dec 16th 2006 8:22PM
But even a price drop won't matter because the smart people will just buy a 360 as all the titles go to that and get dropped from the PS3. Wait, smart people don't buy Sony products, what was I thinknig about.
tack @ Dec 16th 2006 8:29PM
Lots of people will buy it because they dont know better. They had a ps2 and figure ps3 is the logical choice. An educated consumer would know you'd get alot more for your money for a 360 and even a wii has its advantages if you're not really that hardcore of a gamer.
Jeff @ Dec 16th 2006 8:31PM
I think it's so retarded that they use the fact that Gears of War was the top selling title in November. Hmm...the best game on 360 versus a game that MAX will sell 200k copies, due simply to the # of systems out there?? I dont think anyone expected results different from that. Stupid.
nerdXcore @ Dec 16th 2006 8:40PM
All the PS3 needs is a killer app. What SONY needs is a new marketing and PR department.
Crills @ Dec 16th 2006 8:41PM
@ 13...Yes they'll go out and buy a MS virus infested operating system or bought the original xbox and was full of joy when the 360 came out because no more games were being made for it. PS3 has only been out for a month and you expect games in the same caliber of Gears of War to be out for the console.....are you serious??? Think about it, this is the best game for the 360 and it took a year after the launch for this to come out for the 360. Be realistic instead of being an ass.
Crills @ Dec 16th 2006 8:46PM
@ 11. You do know that Spiderman is a sony movie??? Its Sony pictures my friend.
the_game_master @ Dec 16th 2006 8:50PM
People should realize that a game company can't stay on top forever.
Atari, Nintendo, Sega, and now Sony had the taste dominating glory and now they've become yesterday's news. Except Nintendo which unlike Atari and Sega decided to stay in the fight even at the stake of being 2nd or 3rd place.
VerdigriS @ Dec 16th 2006 8:54PM
They need to do the same thing that the PSP needs...
Market it as a gaming machine FIRST, then once the install base is there, push the multimedia functions.
darren mccoy @ Dec 16th 2006 8:57PM
#15 When a game sells 20 times more copies on the ps2 compared to sales for xbox 1, I don't hear people moaning about the fact that the ps2 has sold more hardware than the first xbox.
Thats the way it works!
He who has most hardware sales, sells the most software.
Sony are late to the party and there's not much drink left.
Dave Mendez @ Dec 16th 2006 8:58PM
It's str8 up hate. The same thing happened last year with the xbox 360. Sony is no different and does not cost more in the long run when you do the math.
You all need to do the REAL MATH; not the dumbed down version Microsoft tries to mask with telling you that you have choices.
The 299.00 core system needs a "CHOICE" hard drive (100.00) to play Xbox 1 games which brings it to 399.00. If you want to play "CHOICE" Hi-def DVD movies add another 199.00 which brings it to 599.00 (same as the 60 GB - Wireless internet version of the PS3) Add 99.00 to that if you want to add the "CHOICE" wireless capability which brings you to 699.00. That's 400 "CHOICE" dollars more than the 60 GB Wireless Internet version of the the PS3. Add another "CHOICE" 50.00 in order to be able to play online and download movies. The grand "CHOICE" total is now 749.00. Add another "CHOICE" 140.00 plus shipping (20.00 - 30.00) when your system breaks down after the 3 month warranty period. We are now at 920.00! How do I know this? It happened to me; that's how! This is exactly what I and many other people paid when we "CHOICE" upgraded our systems. Except with me you have to add 100.00 more for 2 "CHOICE" wireless controllers - 1020.00 total and I can't even use my Xbox 360 which was bought In July 06 (manufactured in April of 06).........
499.00 and 599.00 for a PS3 is a hell of a deal and muchlonger lasting (with sony's warranty).
All Sony has to do is get more units into the stores, the rest will take care of itself. Gears of War isn't all that great. It's not a hardcore tactical Shoot em up; anybody can pick this up and get far in the game without having any Skillz whatsoever.
Truth Hurts!
Dave Mendez @ Dec 16th 2006 9:01PM
Correction in CHOICE math! (Flagged with a star)
It's str8 up hate. The same thing happened last year with the xbox 360. Sony is no different and does not cost more in the long run when you do the math.
You all need to do the REAL MATH; not the dumbed down version Microsoft tries to mask with telling you that you have choices.
The 299.00 core system needs a "CHOICE" hard drive (100.00) to play Xbox 1 games which brings it to 399.00. If you want to play "CHOICE" Hi-def DVD movies add another 199.00 which brings it to 599.00 (same as the 60 GB - Wireless internet version of the PS3) Add 99.00 to that if you want to add the "CHOICE" wireless capability which brings you to 699.00. ****Corection***** That's *100* "CHOICE" dollars more than the 60 GB Wireless Internet version of the the PS3. Add another "CHOICE" 50.00 in order to be able to play online and download movies. The grand "CHOICE" total is now 749.00. Add another "CHOICE" 140.00 plus shipping (20.00 - 30.00) when your system breaks down after the 3 month warranty period. We are now at 920.00! How do I know this? It happened to me; that's how! This is exactly what I and many other people paid when we "CHOICE" upgraded our systems. Except with me you have to add 100.00 more for 2 "CHOICE" wireless controllers - 1020.00 total and I can't even use my Xbox 360 which was bought In July 06 (manufactured in April of 06).........
499.00 and 599.00 for a PS3 is a hell of a deal and muchlonger lasting (with sony's warranty).
All Sony has to do is get more units into the stores, the rest will take care of itself. Gears of War isn't all that great. It's not a hardcore tactical Shoot em up; anybody can pick this up and get far in the game without having any Skillz whatsoever.
Truth Hurts!
gasface @ Dec 16th 2006 9:04PM
The only reason PS3s fly off shelves is because people wanting to make a quick buck go out, snatch em all up and then sell em on ebay or craigslist. Check. I did. Especially craigslist, it's off the hook with ps3s for sale. the ps3 will meet the same fate of the psp. I've been let down by sony for way too long to keep up any type of fanboy behavior; false hope.
failures:
minidisc
umd
bluray
sacd
and apple took sony's nuts with the ipod.
i used to love sony, design and quality wise, but they've been really whack with way they handle their games division. i think they got greedy.
Paul @ Dec 16th 2006 9:06PM
#23: Now I need HDTV to play, and it will cost me. Now I need a house to put all these stuff, and it'll cost me; and a car to go and buy all these stuff, more money needed. This is insane!!!
serb @ Dec 16th 2006 9:13PM
lol gasface
if everyone is selling them on ebay than whos buying them off ebay......ghosts!?
FSK405K @ Dec 16th 2006 9:14PM
The EBay price is almost down to the MSRP, so it looks like a poor investment at this point.
Dave Mendez @ Dec 16th 2006 9:24PM
I just saw a commercial that said "The Next Generation lasts only 3 months if you don't buy an extended warranty" it had three red lights flashing throughout the commercial!
Pedro @ Dec 16th 2006 9:33PM
And considering that sony was sued TWICE over intentionally selling faulty PS2's (you know, the ones with DRE, and that died if turned sideways?), I wouldn't crow about the longevity of the system. MS may have had their trouble, but by and large it is behind them, and many of the problem were due to people treating their 360s like crap. I've NEVER had a problem with my 360 and I bought it 6 months ago. Wanna know why? I take care of it. I got an extended warrantee but i don't think I'll be using it.
Remind me, is sony still selling PSP's with faulty square buttons?
Pedro @ Dec 16th 2006 9:33PM
Congrats Mendez! You are an idiot!
You don't need the HD DVD player (which incidentaly, will also work with a PC, doubling the value.). You don't even need it to view HD content. You can buy and rent HD movies and shows from Marketplace. And if paying for things isn't your style, then you can download HD movies online for free and stream them to your 360.
I'm watching an HD cut of crank. I didn't spend a dime on it. Most of that stuff you mentioned is bullshit. (Not to mention that you add extra controllers to the price of the 360 but not the ps3. Probably a good idea, since the ps3 doesn't have any decent multiplayer games anyway.)
If you don't want a wireless controller, you can buy a wired one, for $10 cheaper. Not so with PS3. Nope, you get to pay full price for a controller that dies when the battery does. But don't worry! You'll probably be so frustrated with it turning on and off randomly that you won't even bother with it.
The only area in which the 360 is even remotely more expensive is in online. And you get what you pay for. Sony doesn't even allow background downloads. And silver live is still good. You get acess to demos, movies, arcade titles (which don't require a $300 failing hadheld to play). And the Ps3 doesn't ship with HD cables, or a headset.
So for the 360:
499 gets you
-wireless controller
-access to the arcade
-HD movie playback
-Media centre extender
-Demos
-Custom soundtracks
-20g HDD
-Headset
-HD hookup.
-between one and 3 free games, depending where you buy it
For the PS3, 599 gets you:
-wireless controller-sans rumble
-A small selection of 300m arcade game sthat aren't half as good as the xbla games they are ripping off
-BD media playback
-demos
-games that don't look or play as well as 360 titles
Extras you'll need to buy:
-Headset: $50
-HD Cables: (required in order to make use of the BD drive) $20
-PSP, so you can actually play retro titles: $200
-memory stick so you can actually play retro titles on PSP: $50
So the ACTUAL price of a ps3 is closer to $930. And you still don't have streaming video. And you still don't have rumble. And you still haven't bought any games. And even if you did, the 360 has better ones.
wagalaka @ Dec 16th 2006 9:37PM
You gotta be a hard core fool not to see that Sony has an ace up their sleeve.
Look at demand. If Sony had 2 million consoles, they'd sell 2 million consoles. It is that simple. I don't care how much anyone hates Sony, or hates the ps3. The truth is, despite the price tag, it is still the most saught after christmas gift in the United States.
Causality @ Dec 16th 2006 9:46PM
#32.
"The truth is, despite the price tag, it is still the most saught after christmas gift in the United States."
Oh okay, now that you have stated the ps3 is the most wanted thing right now.... It clearly must be true.
News Flash: Your Wrong :>
nabisco @ Dec 16th 2006 9:51PM
@wagalaga,
Then why are some people here in the States are saying they see ps3's still on shelves while the Wii can't be found anywhere.
serb @ Dec 16th 2006 9:56PM
@ nabisco
the same reason hes saying that the ps3 is the most wanted thing this holiday
THEY ARE LYING!
and if u belive everything that comes out of these fanboys mouths u have issues
Gabriel Asseily @ Dec 16th 2006 10:00PM
The PS3 has it's work cut out. However, I have to say that there is going to be a small hype. I just heard someone tell me this afternoon that his friend had imported one from China and that the graphics blew the 360 away!
I asked him if he had seen the two side by side. After a brief demo of the two together, the guy suddenly realised that the 1080p is all a pile of lame excuses if you do not have a TV that cannot support it!!
Right now, in Europe and I can guarantee this as an IT consultant, the most sought after Christmas present in the UK at least is the Wii. People keep asking where they can find them and apart from saying Ebay, there is no Wii love for them till mid Jan!!
Sony better pull up their socks and get a new PR team. I am sure that at launch we will have the same hype for the PS3 with people waitin to get them. However, MSoft have had a year to fix kinks in their Live system and they are doing very well. Not perfect but getting close.
Sony need to start installing a base for the PSN. Remember, the company that is trying to increase its userbase is actually Nintendo. From a business standpoint they are succeeding (check their stock price in the last 6 months). The DS is getting a lot of non gamers on board. The Wii is proving appealing to the casual gamer. They make money on each unit they sell. Now they have to keep it up.
Microsoft are losing money on the consoles but have a pretty appealing package and Live is delivering on its promises slowly but surely.
Sony are losing money on the consoles. They are sadly losing exclusives as sales of the games are limited due to console numbers. The PSN is not as advanced in its maturation as Live and so they have an upward struggle. Do not count them out but for the moment they are not looking like market leaders in the "next-gen" (sorry joystiq, current gen ;-)) wars.
In order for Sony to start making some serious headway they need to market the machine well. So far their PR and marketing team have managed to annoy a lot of people. I think a new approach on the system is needed especially for Europe. In fact Europe may be a fail or succeed point for Sony. If they make it big then that will help a lot. That said the launch delay till March 2007 is no good thing. I guess we have to watch this space!
DeezNuts420 @ Dec 16th 2006 10:11PM
An act of god!
Killer @ Dec 16th 2006 10:20PM
#33 I agree. Besides #32 needs to realize that there are more then 300 million people in this country! 2 million, subtract the couple 100 thousand that bought it just to make a profit on ebay and it really isn't that much. Besides from what I have heard the Wii is the most saught after console, becuase its fun, and I'm a 360 fanboy, I'll probally never buy a wii because it's not my cup of tea, but you know i might be tempted. Besides if you say that selling out of 2 million ps3's means it's popular then does that mean the wii and 360 is too!? the wii sold more then 2 million and so did the 360 on their launches!
Ritz @ Dec 16th 2006 10:24PM
http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2006/12/14/wiire-in-demand/
Hrm, looks like you are a bit off there, wagalaka =(
Poor wagalaka.
nabisco @ Dec 16th 2006 10:24PM
Serb, you have issues. The reason the Wii is more sought after than the ps3 is because of the ps3's pricetag, the Wii's killer app is better than resistance, and most other games the ps3 has is already on the 360, and the 360 has more third-party exclusives like Bioshock and Splinter Cell: Conviction. Serb, you are a Sony fanboy who can't seem to realize that all these bad things going for the ps3, is bad for the ps3. Most gamers aren't stupid like you, so they get the console that has more going for it. Now all of this is really bad for Sony in the long run because if the ps3's install base is small because they had a bad start, third-parties won't be as forgiving for Sony as they were for Microsoft because Sony came a year later. For a fanboy, this must be hard to chew over, but you need to realize that not all anti-Sony things are made up.
serb @ Dec 16th 2006 10:30PM
@ nabisco, sure w\e u say......
and @ killer
"the wii sold more then 2 million and so did the 360 on their launches!"
and hell just froze over!!!!!
David4 @ Dec 16th 2006 10:42PM
Crills, you should get your head out of Sony's ass, might help you.
I have never had any issues while playing a 360 ecept it locks up a few times. Do you really want to make fun of MS "invested" system? Sony had 11 million ten year old bateries overheat, added spamware to CDs, and says the dumbest bullshit and "people" like you still fall for it. Of course the PS3 won't have the games at launch, but with the cost to make the games and the problem with the system has more and more companies ditching the PS3 and making games for the 360.
Burnt Meatloaf @ Dec 16th 2006 11:05PM
Sony has always been pretty good at making exclusive titles. The PS1 had plenty. The PS2 had plenty. The PS3 doesn't really have much over the horizon that has "buy me" written all over it.
I can easily afford a PS3. I'm just not going to buy one until there's something worth playing on it.
To my amazement, though, I just walked into a GameStop today, and within the 20 minutes I was in there, two people wanted to buy a PS3, but only one system was in stock. The first guy tried to buy it, but the bank apparently wouldn't approve the purchase. The next woman in line bought it for her son.
Given the shortage of softwate, it makes you wonder which customer was actually the lucky one. ;)
robby1051 @ Dec 16th 2006 11:26PM
hmmm extra $100 for wifi and blu ray play back doesnt seem that bad to me...
and thier online is free?
I have a 360 its great but I have a ps2 also.
so to answer the question of whats it gonna take for the PS3 to be in complete turn around?
I say 1 more year, because they plan to keep the ps2 in production and supported at least till the end of 2007..
look at the numbers, ps2 is the number 2 selling hardware this holiday season.
Wait a year when people feel that its the right time to upgrade, next Xmas when the ps3 are all over shelves ps2 owners (especially the ones who just got thiers this year) will be looking to upgrade.
fightinfilipino @ Dec 16th 2006 11:43PM
arrogance up the wazoo
rootkits
exploding batteries
six hundred U.S. dollars
alliwantforchristmasisviralmarketing
high prices, low quality
LIK-SANG
Sony's crossed the line. i'm no longer buying their products on *sheer principle*.
Dave Mendez @ Dec 16th 2006 11:54PM
I agree; I say less than a year. After you do Microsoft's Choice math the PS3 is a much better deal before you add any choices. There really aren't any choices to make; it's all there in one package. You are forced to purchase a so called choice/choices to play online (memory card - 40.00) and play xbox 1 games (hard drive - 100.00) (Memory card and/or Hard Drive) + 50.00 for Xbox Live. You can't just pop in a game and play with the Xbox 360 core system; unless you want to play every game without having the ability to SAVE! LMAO. It's kinda hard to watch HD movies without paying for the Choice to be Online and paying for the Choice to store that HD movie onto the Choice Hard Drive you'll need. No matter how you cut it; that's 100.00 (hard drive) and 50.00 (Xbox Live) Bringing your 299.00 Core system up to 450.00 and you still can't play an HD-DVD! The 499.00 20 GB PS3 (Blu Ray included) is a better deal! Of course you can pay for the choice HD-DVD add on which will bring that core system of yours up to 650.00. The 599.00 60 GB PS3 (Blu Ray and Wireless internet included) is the better value HANDS DOWN!
The 360 sure isn't a good value when you really do the math! It's absurd to call it Next Gen; it's looking Prehistoric compared to the PS3 (either model)
Fandango @ Dec 16th 2006 11:57PM
Most of the Sony hating arguments are coming from freaks who have no grasp over reality.
It's not like...oh, Sony might sell some consoles here and there, BUT Nintendo/MS will win. No, it's Sony will sell over 100 million, as usual, and its console competitors will be left in the dust, as ALWAYS.
You know why? Better games, better brand, better made (doesn't crap out every time you turn it on like 360, and doesn't force a recall like Wii straps), Blu-Ray (which has already won the format war), 100 million + install base all ready to grab one once its available.
Look back in March, and eat your words Wii60 freaks.
I'll rub it in your faces so much, I swear, I'll never stop when PS3 pulls out ahead. Never! You get what you deserve for being clueless MS/Nintendo sheep without any idea of how economics works. Remember that, you'll enjoy the knowledge that PS3 is better than your soon to be sinking consoles for the rest of your lives!
James @ Dec 17th 2006 12:03AM
There are some things that trouble me about Sony's console.
1) If most of their game developers are moving onto other consoles and have trouble creating games for theirs, just how many games will get developed for the PS3? And will this be enough of an incentive for people to continue to support their console?
2) Knowing Sony's current financial condition with all its sectors, can Sony continue to remain competitive? What sort of strategy do they plan to conduct in order to get back on track and how quickly can they do it?
3) This may or may not apply to Sony specifically, but if their production costs are so high and to gain support for all the services they are planning, wouldn't they have to cover those costs somehow, like raise prices further, charge greatly for said services, or conduct a major production system change? Further, it seems they are heavily reliant on special materials for their products (chips and such). So, how would they cover a rise in material costs financially?
4) To continue their current trend of differentiation, they will have to continue offering even more radical services and technologies. Do they have this ability to go up against Microsoft who already handles that ability very well with XBox Live, Marketplace, and everything else?
In my personal opinion, they lack the finances and the inability of innovation to do so. As a result, from an investor's point of view, Sony may not be a financial option in this manner. I'd probably put my money in Nintendo, Microsoft, or a game publisher instead.
Jeff @ Dec 17th 2006 12:07AM
The simple truth, fanboys of all flavors, is that sony doesnt care about you, or what you think. They are a consumer electronics company, with a varied portfolio. Ken Kuturagi and the rest of the head honchos at sony dont care that "right now" there system is having problems, because due to pure marketing saturation over the last 10 years with the playstation "brand" every tom, dick, and harry will eventually buy a PS3. Arguing about who is better company wise, be it Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo is just plain dumb, because in the end, they all want your money. Plain and simple. Just save up all your extra clams, and when the time is right or you have the funds, buy them all and have fun with gaming, not bragging about what system you own, or what "killer game" will or will not be coming to said system. Sheesh.
James @ Dec 17th 2006 12:14AM
@49 (Jeff):
We are talking about Sony as an investment opportunity, not as a flame-fest. Any troll can say they hate Sony. It takes a logical man to prove they have problems.
Besides, I only said I wouldn't invest in Sony. It remains to be seen whether I'd buy their console. At this moment, I wouldn't (too expensive). Maybe if they can prove they can get some truly awesome games, I would, but not right now. I'll just wait.
Dave Mendez @ Dec 17th 2006 12:14AM
Microsoft Core system = Useless
Core System - 299.00
Choice to Save Games 39.99 (Memory card)
Choice to download and play HD content 49.99 (Xbox Live) - 100.00 (Hard Drive to store downloaded content)
Choice to Play HD-DVD movies 199.00
Choice to Play on internet Wirelessly 99.99
Grand Total = 790.00!!!!!!!!!
Xbox 360 Premium - 399.00
Choice to play online - 49.99
Choice to Play HD-DVD movies - 199.00
Choice to play on internet wirelessly 99.00
Grand Total 750.00!!!!!!!!!
Sony 20gb PS3 - 499.00 (Plays PS1, PS2 games, Free Online Play included; no additional costs to download, play or view HD content)
Sony 60 GB PS3 - 599.00 (3x Hard Drive Space of the premium 360, Plays PS1, PS2 games, Wireless Internet and free online play included)
PS3 - True Next Gen System and Better Value than the Xbox 360!