Why the Firefly MMO won't work
Michael Zenke, the editor of Slashdot Games, explains on GameSetWatch why he believes a Firefly MMO "just won't fly." - The Firefly universe isn't violent enough for an MMO. There just isn't enough fighting going on and killing rats won't cut it.
- Because "life is precious" in Firefly, it's going to be strange that an emphasis needs to be put on combat, which is important to an MMO -- thus the non-combat portions will be "waylaid and pushed outside the scope of the original launch."
- Joss Whedon's Firefly was clever and witty. How do you put that into something "narratively dead as a quest in a MMOG"?
- Um, you aren't one of the Serenity crew.
See also: Firefly returns as MMORPG
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
gok @ Dec 16th 2006 12:23PM
I haven't seen firefly but it happens in space right? EVE Online happens in space too and it has good amount of players. I've been playing it four couple of months withoung fighting any other player, only AI ships and only when I have to defend myself, which is not very often. So who says emphasis needs to be on combat?
EvanB @ Dec 16th 2006 12:33PM
No, what that guy just explained was why Firefly won't work as a piece of crap WoW-clone. Not why it won't work as a creative MMO.
WhaleMenace @ Dec 16th 2006 12:36PM
When I first heard about Firefly MMO, I said to myself. Why? Who is this for? I can't imagine the effort being put into a Firefly game that it actually deserves. And whats the deal with MMO's springing up all over the place. Soon, VERY VERY soon. Your going to saturate the market for this type of game. I mean theres a Conan MMO coming out,... which probably has a larger fan base than firefly, but the prospects are nowhere near as interesting. And theres like 20 other ones that were announced in the last week. I find myself wondering if the market has room for this type of thing, I mean look at huxley, look at auto assault. Do people consider MMO's their favorite genre? I like MMO's ok but they would never be my favorite genre, do people play lots at a time. I feel like Im the only one who doesnt get it.
Mephistopheles @ Dec 16th 2006 12:37PM
Stargate would make a better MMO... you know, with all the war and all.
TheBigC @ Dec 16th 2006 12:46PM
Firefly would be a much better as a standard RPG than an MMO. That way you can focus on what made the show great, characters and stories. It's to bad that because of the success of WoW that the way to get a game company to give you money to make a game based on an original IP is to say "it's an MMO."
The ZeroCorpse @ Dec 16th 2006 12:50PM
Firefly didn't work as a TV show or movie. Why would anybody think another one of Joss Whedon's terrible ripoff ideas with snarky dialogue and vague pop culture references would work as a game?
Gag me. I'd rather see a good Doctor Who universe game than some cheap attempt to extort more cash from the browncoats and Whedonites.
Tony @ Dec 16th 2006 12:53PM
I suppose they could take the time to actually challenge the cut and dry method of what is required in an MMORPG and do something new with it. I don't know who is to say that these games always and will forever need to be played in the same manner.
adg1034 @ Dec 16th 2006 12:58PM
I want to be optimistic. I really do. But, I do agree that the developers will have a pretty hard time finding a way to make the game both fit the theme of the show, and also be, well, interesting. However, let's not shoot the idea down before we see what they're doing with it. Hopefully we'll see some media in the next few months and/or some actual information on the game from Multiverse themselves.
tracked @ Dec 16th 2006 1:04PM
This guy must be high. There is violence in the verse. Reavers and Alliance come to mind. Besides the game doesn't have to be about experience points. It could be what Firefly is really about. Money. Make it money centred where you can buy,upgrade or customize your ships.
Mabui @ Dec 16th 2006 1:11PM
To me, Firefly represents the only space show that I've ever enjoyed. It doesn't fake tech itself, it doesn't need strange alien races and rehash bullcrap Star(Trek/Wars) and otherwise.
It has varied locales, it has tons of side interest to explore. It's Pirates meets cowboys meets Space and with that said, it would be a nightmare to make an MMO.
Imagine though, you and some friends get together and get yourself a ship, fly around, chat, move cargo and do missions? I dunno, that sounds decently fun, a great deal more varied than what else is out there.
mrdowns @ Dec 16th 2006 1:16PM
I agree with most of the comments in that: 1) If they try to make an EQ/WoW clone, it will fail, and 2) It could be really cool if they try to break out of the mold and try something original that befits the Firefly universe, and 3) They'll probably just try to make a WoW clone, and it will therefore probably fail.
Jim @ Dec 16th 2006 1:30PM
First: I always wanted a MMO that doesn't rely TOO MUCH on combat as virtually all MMOs do.
Second: Serenity is a mixed bag? Says who? O'RLY? Well, why has it got an excellent IMDb score of 8.0? Serenity was a great movie and consistent with the series.
Fisher @ Dec 16th 2006 2:06PM
Dear Jim,
Serenity didn't quite make its money back world wide. In fact, it came in about two million short of the mark during its theatre run. Sure, it made some back with DVD sales (which makes senes because it didn't beat is theatre cap with DVD sales), but I think its fair to say the only people who saw Serenity were people who were going to like Serenity. I don't think anyway randomly saw it.
And, to be fair, there couldn't be too many of those folks or Firefly wouldn't have gone off the air after, what? One season? If that?
It does have an 8.0, yes, but me thinks its a bit scewered. Serenity drew on the Firefly crowd. Those people voted. If you didn't like Firefly odds are good you didn't see Serenity. Hence you have only fans of the source material seeing and voting on the film.
Which is the case with a lot of Whendon projects. Lotta hardcore fans, very vocal, but not exactly taking over any cities anytime soon.
Sincerely,
Fisher
P.S. By no means am I trying to insult you or your show! I'm simply saying that there are definitely other factors involved then simply saying that the show/movie must be good for X reason.
jayntampa @ Dec 16th 2006 2:08PM
I could write a piece on why a game featuring a wolf running around with a paintbrush would make a terrible game, too. You can make anything SOUND bad before you know what the game is like ... it's a useless piece of mental masterbation.
Wait until the game comes out and then say it sucks.
guises @ Dec 16th 2006 2:25PM
"for the simple fact that it would be nice to have a successful sci-fi MMO where your existence isn't ship-bound."
---------------------------------
Anarchy Online isn't explosively popular, but I'd certainly call it successful. It's been around for quite a while now and it's a decent enough game.
Pat @ Dec 16th 2006 2:36PM
Well, if Morena Baccarin came with my copy of the game, it'd easily beat the crap out of WoW. Let's make it happen guys.
polly @ Dec 16th 2006 2:48PM
"And, to be fair, there couldn't be too many of those folks or Firefly wouldn't have gone off the air after, what? One season? If that?"
It's more Fox's fault that it didn't catch on because they aired episodes out of order making the story hard to follow, and they didn't know how to promote it. I don't recall how great the time slot was, but it couldn't have been that stellar, since I was completely unaware of the show back then and don't even remember seeing any commercials for it. Not to mention this was around the time that practically every show on tv was a reality tv show. Just like with The Family Guy, the fan base didn't really solidify until it was too late. Unique and creative shows have the cards stacked against them because they don't fit the Hollywood formula.
Cremlian @ Dec 16th 2006 3:01PM
Why don't they just make a classic RPG.. Sorta like Rogue Galaxy in the Firefly Worlds... OR a Action/Adventure game! Come on!
Xel @ Dec 16th 2006 3:12PM
I think making a Firefly MMO is a mistake, I would rather have some more TV seasons then some MMO. Stargate worlds is a perfect MMO place, it just makes more since. Though I would like to see more Story for Firefly, especially with those Big ass "alliance" ships, (i forgot what there called) it would be interesting, but Just give us another TV show or movies.
Jdoki @ Dec 16th 2006 3:33PM
@ 18 Cremlian
"Why don't they just make a classic RPG.. Sorta like Rogue Galaxy in the Firefly Worlds... OR a Action/Adventure game! Come on!"
Because making a full RPG / Single player game doesn't allow devs to make a half arsed buggy game to unleash on the game playing populace. Then charge us for the 'privilege' of playing while they scramble round trying to hot patch the game at the same time as promising 'new content soon'... :)
I think Michael Zenke has been incredibly shortsighted in his article. If a cookie cutter WoW rip off is what the devs are aiming for, then Firefly will struggle. But the galaxy in which Firefly is set is rich with potential and hinted at so much more than was ever shown in the series or film - it was about more than one crew in one ship.
The potential for a great MMORPG is huge, and it doesn't have to be heavy on combat - off the top of my head I can imagine a player class that enjoys fighting the Reavers, a 'classic' Firefly type of player who wants to smuggle or trade, a member of the Alliance etc etc.
Unfortunately I suspect a WoW knock off with a bit of space travel - but I'd love to be proved wrong.
NotASenator @ Dec 16th 2006 3:44PM
Can't we just say that it needs to be multi-crewed EVE Online with a ground-based component and end this discussion?
PoliticalGamer @ Dec 16th 2006 3:51PM
Just to point something out for any non-Firefly/Serenity fans, the background to the series was that Mal and Zoe was vets for the Browncoats, who lost in a civil war.
Now, why shouldn't the Firefly MMO exist during the civil war? It would not only fill in a gap in the Firefly history, but allow some more conventional MMO combat to be put in. Not only that, you wouldn't have to be with or even near Mal and the rest of the crew (although they could potentially put out cameos).
I do hope they don't pull off a generic MMO clone, and show that they are basing it off of Firefly in style and in environment.
WatTsu @ Dec 16th 2006 3:56PM
I'm not sure about the "Serenity was a mixed bag" comment, nearly everyone I've shown it to loved it, Firefly fan or not.
Anyway, as was said earlier, the nature of Firefly requires a different kind of MMO. I could see this working kind of like Star Wars Galaxies did, offering different professions beyond professional dungeon raider. You could be a doctor, a ship's captain, a mercenary, a smuggler, that sort of stuff.
It's going to be a very different kind of MMO. If they do it right. Which I am not entirely convinced they will.
Jim @ Dec 16th 2006 4:39PM
@Fisher: Thanks for the information, I was under the impression that the movie was artistically as well as financially a success. I'm very sorry to hear that's not the case.
My complaint was about the QUOTE "the movie Serenity is a mixed-bag for fans" ENDQUOTE. I don't think it was a mixed bag for fans - I think fans just loved the movie.
Will @ Dec 16th 2006 4:57PM
Firefly's strong point was the characters. Firefly would be better suited to an RPG along the lines of Knights of the Old Republic or those with multiple character choices. Firefly isn't about killing people, it's about surviving. And now you can't play River, you're screwed if you want violence.
Firefly was an awesome TV show, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to work out as an MMO.
David4 @ Dec 16th 2006 5:13PM
They are making a Stargate MMO.
ill trooper @ Dec 16th 2006 6:08PM
Crazier things have happened - when 'GoldenEye' was announced on the N64 I had no interest in touching it (James Bond movie license? Sounded terrible), but the single-player game became one of my favorite video games of all time.
Personally, I like Firefly for the character interaction, something I don't see happening in a video game, especially a MMO. But there is a strong universe set up that could work for exploring and missions, and the show carries such a cache with it's fanbase, a fanbase that likely plays WoW or could get intrigued by something like it. A successful MMO that deals with something OTHER than spells, dragons, and Boris Vallejo imagery is cool with me.
Justin @ Dec 16th 2006 6:41PM
Agreed with #2: "No, what that guy just explained was why Firefly won't work as a piece of crap WoW-clone. Not why it won't work as a creative MMO."
Brad Lee @ Dec 16th 2006 6:52PM
I'm going to be different and say that I hated Serenity and loved Firefly. I was burnt out on Whedon after too many seasons of Buffy and Angel that kept getting worse and worse, and when I saw a new Whedon creation I just rolled my eyes.
But, eventually I caved and saw it just because I heard such great things. I loved Firefly, much more than I ever did Buffy or Angel, and the fact that it was only 13 episodes was torturous. But the movie, to me, was utter crap. Firefly was supposed to go against the typical Hollywood garbage, but Serenity seemed to embrace it with an over the top storyline and action scenes over character development. Not my cup o tea.
With that in mind, I think it COULD become a good MMO, but I don't see it happening. As others have already stated, the game could be great if the gameplay is based around the Firefly universe, instead of just using the Firefly universe in a cookie-cutter MMO with a heavy reliance on combat. But, I'd be more likely to bet the latter is going to happen than the former.
@ Fisher
Don't quote me on this, because I don't know the exact figures, but something around area of %90 of movies DO NOT make a profit in the theatres. Nowadays, movies typically only make money after it has been milked dry (rental/DVD Sales, Merchandise, Syndication on Television, etc). Only once in a great while does a movie like Pirates of the Carribean come out where not only does it make a profit in the theatre, it makes quite an impressive one at that.
I'd say, given how fast Firefly kicked the can, if Serenity made ANY profit it should count as a success.
@ ZeroCorpse
Sounds like someone needs a hug!
Sonojinshi @ Dec 16th 2006 7:28PM
I concur with Will (#26) that what made "Firefly" fantastic was its characters. That won't be translated to the MMO and, as a result, it will lose an enormous lot of the show's charm and feeling.
LaughingTarget @ Dec 16th 2006 7:30PM
Firefly had the 8pm timeslot on Friday. Yes, it was badly marketed, but because of the high production costs of the show, an intensive marketing campaign to convince viewers to watch an unknown property (it doesn't help that science fiction isn't very popular on the whole) would have made it an instant failure financially. Fox's best choice was to throw it out, have a couple of ads (which they did) and hope for the best. Marketing would have led to Firefly's cancellation, guaranteed. The other path, give it a prime Friday timeslot and cross your fingers, had a less than 100% failure rate. Second was the best choice.
The fanbase is just too small for Firefly to be considered any kind of success. Even with the multi-viewership diehard crowd that would make otherwise bad movies like Star Wars Episode 3 a success weren't able to push Firefly in the black and barely did it on DVD sales (the hardcore only buys one copy). No way would those fans be able to keep a TV series, where the season costs much more than the movie, financially solvent.
I have to agree, a Firefly MMO, no matter how much we may have liked the show (aside: I bought the complete series DVD the second it was released, saw Serenity in the theaters three times and own it on DVD as well), is a terrible idea.
First, you're going to have the fanboy factor. A Firefly MMO is defenitely targeted at the hardcore Firefly fans, few (if any) other gamers will even know it exists, let alone try it. The fanboy base demands that every little aspect be absolutely perfect. If so much as a rock is in the wrong place, the fanboy will get irritated and refuse to play, making the research and level design absurd to the point of it being too expensive to develop.
Second, there simply is no way to make the gameplay match the feel of the series. Ground combat was brutal and avoided. Folks rarely got off with just injuries, and the crew of the Serenity only managed to survive because one of the most brilliant doctors in the universe was on the ship. Combat was more like a samurai duel or early European musketmen warfare; posturing was key and combat was frequently resolved without firing a shot. That form of gameplay would be dull for gamers, either being torn apart instantly or losing without ever getting to do anything because the other guy had the better ground.
A multi-person EVE would fail as well. Firefly was based on dynamics amongst a close group. A multiperson EVE would fail at this since you'd have to make sure you found people who were always on when you are. Furthermore, if a "group for the day" mentality prevails, it would be incredibly boring and frustrating. First, ships in Firefly rarely displayed combat abilities. Most were unarmed ships that relied on agility and guile to escape unharmed. This means that most players will end up sitting in a ship with nothing to do (Serenity only had one pilot) while you hope the guy with the piloting skill isn't a complete idiot.
Another aspect is death is very real in the Firefly universe. The developes would be hard-pressed to figure out a way to keep your character persistent in the world after death (perma-death is highly unpopular ... mostly because no one has ever really given it a try). Other MMOs like EVE and WoW have built-in mythos about why your character persists even after death. EVE has clones and the Warcraft universe allows heroes to be reborn (except under extenuating circumstances) after being struck down as their souls are powerful. Firefly lacks a clean mechanic for this. Technology is mostly absent in the outer worlds (where most players will end up being as the inner planets are peaceful even by Firefly standards) so dropping out some cloning center in the middle of a barely developed colony is out of the question and simply popping up at a graveyard with your gear intact is just absurd.
Ultimately, any kind of Firefly MMO will be a generic space MMO with the Firefly name slapped on it as an afterthought.
Argent @ Dec 17th 2006 2:36PM
firefly mmo, guild/ship roster, week 1:
1 captain
1 medic (we somehow talked him into it, poor sap.)
2 preachers (someone always winds up rolling a druid, just because they can...)
1 navigator (yup, bribes again)
35 fighters/jayne clones/professional badasses
160 SLR space prostitutes.
yup, it should be grand. :)
Jubbie @ Dec 18th 2006 12:35PM
I believe that after the events at the end of "Serenity," the 'verse is going to plunge into cival war again. That leaves plenty of potential for PvP, factioning, non-stop violence... And really, wasn't the war the one thing about Firefly that we REALLY wanted to see more of, but they didn't have the budget for?
Leper Messiah @ Apr 1st 2007 11:48AM
I'll tell you one thing.
Firefly is a shitty rip-off of Outlaw Star.
I mean seriously, theres a point where the number of plot points and scenes are exactly the same that it no longer is coincidence and is a rip off.