Quarter gobblers are broken on XBLA [update 2]
Joystiq reader "epobirs" disagreed with our comment earlier today that Xbox Live Arcade title Gauntlet is broken. We'd like to dig into the issue a little more, because we feel that developers are missing a major opportunity to resurrect the true arcade experience.
Games like Gauntlet were designed for an era in which expensive game cabinets were purchased by small businessmen who hoped that the large up-front purchase would be paid for (and them some) by teens plunking quarter after quarter into the machines in order to keep playing. Game designers therefore had to make sure (1) that the average player would die frequently; (2) that the game was fun enough to convince the average player to drop another quarter in the slot.
Gauntlet, released in 1985 (at the height of the arcade craze) was a masterpiece of the form. It greedily gobbled quarters from addicted gamers who were enthralled by the game's tight design. What made the game so fun was the fact that your money was always at stake. A mistake meant that you had to reach into your pocket and insert more money. There was a constant tension between performance and pocketbook, and this tension made the game.
Every non coin-operated release of Gauntlet since then has missed the point. The Xbox Live Arcade version, for instance, allows players to hit a button on the Xbox 360 controller in order to simulate putting a quarter in the machine. Of course, a button press costs nothing, and so the essential tension is lost. The game loses a fundamental game play mechanism by replacing quarter insertion with button pressing.
What we'd love to see is a release of Gauntlet for Xbox Live Arcade (or for a competing service) that's free (or very cheap) to "purchase" but that costs $.25 per health increase (equivalent to 20 MS Points). The developer that brings back this core game play mechanism will claim the title of "most authentic arcade experience."
We're certain that are some great arcade titles slated for release in 2007. They'd be better if they stayed true to the arcade experience.
Counterpoints raised by readers:
- "Looks like someone didn't actually read the help file. Gauntlet isn't broken. For the purposes of determining your score for any High Score table, your in-game score is divided by how many quarters you inserted (ie how many times you hit Y) into the game. So, yes, you can slam 100 quarters in there and become "invincible"
but good luck getting any sort of decent high score unless you break a million+ points." -- oobey
Good point, but most folks aren't playing Gauntlet for a place on the Xbox Live Arcade leaderboard. It's a secondary goal, if anything. Invicibility mode breaks a much more primary game play mechanism.
- "There have been numerous releases of Gauntlet since the NES days with the exact same infinite quarters feature, along with numerous similarly structured arcade game adaptations. People appear able to restrain themselves and choose how they want to play." -- epobirs
If Gauntlet had been released to the arcade with an invincibility button, you can bet it'd have been declared "broken." A fundamental design decision made by the game's designers has been undermined through this awful mechanism. For the first time, MS Points and Nintendo Points allow a return to the arcade model because they make microtransactions economical to support. It's time to toss this broken mechanism and return to "true" arcade play
[Update 1: new reader comments responded to, below.]
- "Hmm....Let's fleece the Gauntlet players" -- EihBeir
Nobody's advocating a fleecing. As noted above, we encouraged a price reduction on the game. In the arcade days, you didn't have to plop down $8.00 to play an arcade game. You put in $.25. The first play -- and every play thereafter -- cost $.25. Players who are very good at Gauntlet might end up paying less for the game than players who are new to it, which would be a return to the arcade pecking order, yet another game play element lost by the transition to up-front game purchases.
- "The free download: pay as you play concept sounds pretty good. It might return a lot of the thrill to the arcade games. But I doubt it would make any money.I've downloaded 5 or 6 XBLA retro titles. Each one was about $5 I believe. I don't think I have played any of them more than 10 times. ($2.50 on the pay per play method) And I doubt that I am an exception here." -- Noodle
Valid point. It's possible that your interest tailed off quickly precisely because the game play had been gutted. There's no excitement in playing some of these arcade titles when your quarter isn't at stake. Gauntlet is positively boring with its invincibility mode.
- "Hey, while we're at it, doesn't Street Fighter II have a quarter mode? Better charge people to use that too." -- EihBeir
Why not? It'd make online matches much more meaningful. I still remember the thrill of sitting on a Street Fighter II cabinet for an hour at a time, undefeated against all challengers. I also remember the agony of defeat when a challenger did manage to defeat me. I put my quarter up on the machine immediately to request a rematch. It was fun because the stakes were higher.
- "The whole point of owning a console is so you DON\'T constantly put money in, like an arcade game." -- Tim
Consoles defeated arcade gaming. But they've failed to capture the essence of the arcade because microtransactions of the arcade type were never possible on a console until now. The console business model (upfront purchases of "entire" games) doesn't have to be replicated. Why get stuck on the console business model? Does anybody really believe that paying an average of $50 per game makes sense when most gamers never finish the games they buy? Pay-per-play eliminates the waste of paying for content you never reach.
- "Can you imagine the public rage at not being able to buy the full game?" - TravistyOJ
Nobody's forcing a pay-to-play business model on anybody. What if you were offered the option of purchasing an arcade game for $10 or paying 20 MS points per play. Which would you choose? What if you were offered this choice every time you fired up the game?
[Update 2: more responses below.]
- "People are already pissed off enough about Microtransactions without crap like this. It's 2006 (soon to be '07), Cole. Nobody wants to pay like they did back when to play the original Gauntlet anymore." -- The H
The point is that Gauntlet was designed for an era of pay-to-play. The game is hurt by the clumsy translation to an up-front model. I'm arguing that publishers who want to offer an accurate and true version of Gauntlet must replicate the quarter mechanism because this is how the game's designers designed the game to be played.
- "I honestly think its a great idea. As the owner of 5 arcade machines, and countless games for it, I know what it feels just to be able to hit the little trigger to gain a credit. Even with the authentic cabinets, its still not the same as having $10 and trying to hit up all the machines." -- Borman
Though Borman's one of the lucky few who've managed to own actual arcade cabinets, I'd wager that he's not the only owner of arcade games to feel the same hollow victory associated with "free play." Arcade games were not designed for limitless play.
- "The pay to play idea could work but only if it tracked how much you paid, and when you've paid so much (say 120% of the up front price) that the game is considered purchased." -- KineticOnline
Great idea in the spirit of the post. We've got a broken game play mechanism. How can it be fixed?












Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Scott @ Dec 30th 2006 2:15PM
Your Valkerie needs food badly!
Neoxkc @ Dec 30th 2006 2:16PM
This is one of the stupidest things I have ever read.
rom @ Dec 30th 2006 2:16PM
Are you serious? Thats the worst idea I've heard in a while. Do you work for EA?
K @ Dec 30th 2006 2:18PM
So, are you joking or just an idiot?
Ross @ Dec 30th 2006 2:18PM
Wait! Vlad, so you're proposing we do MORE microtransactions? "Pay-to-Play" model? Hmmm..... :-)
Ian @ Dec 30th 2006 2:23PM
Wow... just... wow. The .... man. You're an idiot. Seriously.
Noodle @ Dec 30th 2006 5:59PM
The free download: pay as you play concept sounds pretty good. It might return a lot of the thrill to the arcade games.
But- I doubt it would make any money.
I've downloaded 5 or 6 XBLA retro titles. Each one was about $5 I believe.
I don't think I have played any of them more than 10 times. ($2.50 on the pay per play method) And I doubt that I am an exception here.
Most of the games end up being pretty bad. I just want them for the nostalgia, but when it comes time to play- I generally don't like them. (Joust? what a pile of dung)
I am excited about the Atari games coming out in 2007 though. Missile Command is something that could get me spending a lot more time with these games.
EihBeir @ Dec 30th 2006 2:21PM
Your comments: Hmm....Let's fleece the Gauntlet players to appease this Cole guy... Good plan.
Hey, while we're at it, doesn't Street Fighter II have a quarter mode? Better charge people to use that too.
Yawar @ Dec 30th 2006 2:22PM
So you complain about microtransactions but then you want them to make the game more authentic feeling?
I think a better feature would be to give players a quota of quarters per level; something that would rollover to the next level so that you could accrue health. Or perhaps just have the microtransaction feature for a leaderboard/ranked game?
bigd7387 @ Dec 30th 2006 2:23PM
Are you guys stupid or just tards? You come up with the stupidest ideas ever and you never stop. Congrats on being stupid.
Brogan @ Dec 30th 2006 2:24PM
Some good points but why have you created a new post to reply to the comment section of a previous post. why not just reply to them in the comments. sometimes it seems that this blog goes out of it's way not to engage with it's readers
Vince @ Dec 30th 2006 2:24PM
That's probably one of the worst ideas ever.
S @ Dec 30th 2006 2:24PM
Wow what an idea. Are you planning to invade Poland next?
The Man @ Dec 30th 2006 2:25PM
Who does this guy work for EA.
Shagi @ Dec 30th 2006 2:26PM
I understand where you are comming from but making real money a gameplay mechanic is not one that I want to see pursued.
I play magic online a lot and I don't find the tension of having to spend 14.00 a tournament for virtual cards a pleasing gameplay mechanic. I don't mind doing this in real life tournaments cause at least then I'm getting something back for my cash, albiet its just paper but its still something tangible.
Adding the element of money as a gameplay mechanic to home systems would certainly decrease the replayability of said title. Once you complete the game I can hardly see the point to spending more money to go back through the title again, reguardless of how much fun it is.
Now if your talking about adding elements of gambling to Live titles (optional of course) I think that would be fun, just dont be surprised when gaming gets another bad rep if this happens.
Tim @ Dec 30th 2006 2:26PM
Are you stupid? The whole point of owning a console is so you DON'T constantly put money in, like an arcade game.
CP229 @ Dec 30th 2006 2:31PM
Here is an "authentic" idea for the wii virtual console. To play your NES game you have to pick up the console and blow on it 20 times before it works.
Probot @ Dec 30th 2006 2:29PM
Console gaming killed the arcade scene for a reason. The graphical capabilities improved enough and most importantly, you could play without putting in quarters.
Cole wants to bring back the most annoying (though financially viable) feature of the arcades. But what do you hope to gain eventually?
"most folks aren't playing Gauntlet for a place on the Xbox Live Arcade leaderboard."
Are they doing it for the engrossing story? Is there a good ending for the game?
You idea seems to be that they are playing the game solely to spend money. They get enjoyment from playing it depsite having to pay for it.
Vince @ Dec 30th 2006 2:30PM
sometimes i think this guy writes dumb things just to get a lot of comments. remember when he told us that we were dumb not to buy a PS3 because sony was giving us such a great discount?
scott @ Dec 30th 2006 2:31PM
Joystiq really needs an editor who has enough insight to stop certain articles from being posted once in a while.
TravistyOJ @ Dec 30th 2006 2:43PM
Are you really that dumb? Can you imagine the public rage at not being able to buy the full game? People would feel cheated, just like they did with Lumines. Vlad, I see what you are trying to do, you want to make the purist arcade-to-console transition ever. It wouldn't work though. People don't like to be nickel-and-dimed. The "insert coin" button is the best that can be done for this, because when people play games in their home, they want to own it. No one will ever agree to a pay-to-play home model.
laserboyjc @ Dec 30th 2006 2:33PM
by this logic I guess we could make games have a lot of tension by say, making your console fail if you get a "game over" screen...seriously Vlad, just realize that this is a different time, things need to be done differently
Shagi @ Dec 30th 2006 2:32PM
CP229:
My Wiimote wouldn't sync with the console until I opened the battery cover, removed the batteries, and blew into the holes inside the housing. Then it finally synced up again after not working for a few hours.
The Nintendo experience is still authentic.
NotAnElitistPrick @ Dec 30th 2006 2:33PM
You know, instead of "paying per play" you could just have a limited number of continues. I do agree that it's currently "broken" right now, but having a pay-per-play scheme wouldn't fix it.
Jeff @ Dec 30th 2006 2:34PM
I really hope this isn't a serious post. Since when has "putting your money at risk" EVER been an aspect of good game design? It makes more money for the developer, but it's not in any way fun for the player. I remember one time as a kid when I went to an arcade and found a Time Crisis cabinet that had somehow been switched to free-play mode. I spent my entire time there with my hands glued to the gun because I didn't have to worry about feeding the machine quarters.
And yeah, it's kind of ironic how you complain about microtransactions and then suggest this, so much so that I really hope it's satirical or something.
minus_273 @ Dec 30th 2006 2:39PM
wow ive read form retarded things on joystiq but this is a first. gauntlet sucks because it is TOO CHEAP! WTF! you sir are an idiot. EA is evil because of micro payments but this game sucks because it lacks them? it looks like Vlad here needs something to complain about.
thejakeman @ Dec 30th 2006 2:37PM
shagi wrote: "14. I understand where you are comming from but making real money a gameplay mechanic is not one that I want to see pursued.
I play magic online a lot and I don't find the tension of having to spend 14.00 a tournament for virtual cards a pleasing gameplay mechanic. I don't mind doing this in real life tournaments cause at least then I'm getting something back for my cash, albiet its just paper but its still something tangible.
Adding the element of money as a gameplay mechanic to home systems would certainly decrease the replayability of said title. Once you complete the game I can hardly see the point to spending more money to go back through the title again, reguardless of how much fun it is.
Now if your talking about adding elements of gambling to Live titles (optional of course) I think that would be fun, just dont be surprised when gaming gets another bad rep if this happens."
QFE&T
KineticOnline @ Dec 30th 2006 2:57PM
The pay to play idea could work but only if it tracked how much you paided, and when you've paid so much (say 120% of the up front price) that the game is considered purchased.
Evan @ Dec 30th 2006 2:42PM
If people liked paying per play, arcades would still be popular. People pumped quarters into arcade machines because there was no (affordable) equivalent machine they could buy. Arcades died as soon as affordable home consoles caught up to arcade machines. Given the option of buying a game outright vs. paying per play, history has shown that consumers prefer to buy a game outright.
And also, STFU! People shot down your idea and attitude in the "Top 20 XBLA titles" thread. Don't try to force your opinion onto people by creating a new thread.
Jon @ Dec 30th 2006 2:44PM
Here I was thinking that VC was finally fired and now he is back with more crap (I was beginning to enjoy the calm). And no, he doesn't work for EA. He work(ed?) for Microsoft (the guys who introduced microtransactions to consoles). Probably preparing us for the time when MS does implement it.
The H @ Dec 30th 2006 2:45PM
It's general knowledge that Vladimir Cole is an idiot. If you want a genuine arcade experience, how bout you go to a friggin arcade? Obviously its not going to be the same experience as the original arcade version. How bout the fact that youre playing on an Xbox controller, and not a giant arcade block? Or, how bout you're playing on a 360 and TV, not a gigantic wooden box? "Oh, but you can buy an authentic arcade controller for the 360!". Ok, for 60 bucks, that just about covers whatever quarters youd be throwing into the arcade box back in the day, so go for it! You want people to pay 20 ms points every time they die? I'm sorry, pal, but the developers are just a few steps ahead of you. They realize that absolutely no one would buy (or play) their Live Arcade game if they did that. People are already pissed off enough about Microtransactions without crap like this. It's 2006 (soon to be '07), Cole. Nobody wants to pay like they did back when to play the original Gauntlet anymore. There are 20-years-worth of better games out there to buy now.
Jonah Falcon @ Dec 30th 2006 2:47PM
Please note: YOU CAN *NOT*, I repeat, *NOT!* continue to plunk in "quarters" in Gauntlet in Xbox Live Multiplayer!
Seems like some guy who does not own a 360 is making comments on something he doesn't OWN OR PLAY! (rolling eyes)
Borman @ Dec 30th 2006 2:47PM
I honestly think its a great idea. As the owner of 5 arcade machines, and countless games for it, I know what it feels just to be able to hit the little trigger to gain a credit. Even with the authentic cabinets, its still not the same as having 10$ and trying to hit up all the machines. At the same time, people are right in saying that the 360 is a console for a reason. Why not just limit the credits that the player gets. Same effect really, the lives have meaning, and yet they arent forced into wasting too much money.
Jonah Falcon @ Dec 30th 2006 2:48PM
By the way, they could have used the mechanic in multiplayer for single player - in multiplayer, you get 700 life points to begin every level, but you cannot "add quarters" to continue. Therefore, you have to escape the level before your life runs out, and that's it.
v1cious @ Dec 30th 2006 2:50PM
i think the game should just have limited continues, that would solve the problem.
Ninx @ Dec 30th 2006 2:51PM
I have to side with Joystiq on this one completely.
Jonah Falcon @ Dec 30th 2006 2:54PM
"If you want a genuine arcade experience, how bout you go to a friggin arcade?"
What arcades? The only arcades left are in amusement parks, and all THEY have are DDR and fighting games. LMAO
SALvation @ Dec 30th 2006 2:51PM
...and thus continues the fall of Joystiq...
Jonah Falcon @ Dec 30th 2006 2:55PM
"i think the game should just have limited continues, that would solve the problem."
Why? The point in Gauntlet is not levels, which basically all look the same. The point is to see how much you can score with a single quarter -- oh, and how long you can go before you're bored out of your mind. (evil smirk) It does improve when playing with someone else. Then the screaming, "YOU ATE MY FUCKING FOOD, ASSHOLE!" and "Can you PLEASE move your ass over to me?! I'M TRAPPED!" and "STOP TAKING ALL THE SPECIAL POTIONS, YOU GREEDY FUCK!" and "Oh, gee, I'm sorry. I 'didn't know' that shots hurt you now. Maybe next time you won't steal every potion." and "WHY did you take the potion?!?!?! I'M THE MAGE! THAT'S ALL I DO WELL!!!!!"
Jonah Falcon @ Dec 30th 2006 2:54PM
By the way, who here prefers the Valkyrie the most? No one likes her. I'm a Mage Guy, myself. :p
Maxathon @ Dec 30th 2006 2:56PM
Congratulations on being the first blogtroll to piss me off so badly that I want to reach into the internet and deck you.
ben @ Dec 30th 2006 2:58PM
I first played gauntlet on a console where no quarters were necessary, and I loved the game. Vlad, i can tell you're trying hard to write editorials that are insightful and original, but you lack the judgment to realize that your jaw-droppingly boneheaded opinions are peculiar to you alone.
And since you apparently have a whole bunch of quarters you dont need, why dont you give them to the Goodwill guys outside the local mall/Walmart, or else just feed them into your asshole every time you die on gauntlet.
abm @ Dec 30th 2006 3:02PM
Is there any way to filter out which bloggers you see on the front page? I just went back through Vlad's history (I often forget the site is run by multiple posters - I think the posts are really consistent and high quality overall =) and a lot of the comment-baiting, no-real-content-just-asking-gamers-what-they-think posts, and left field super-retardo theories are coming out of Mssr Cole's keyboard.
My favorite had to be the hate-on for Zelda TP, then after 600+ comments, the editorial about how people fell into a group-think mob mentaility over giving Zelda positive reviews. I don't mind nuts with weird theories, just make sure they're entertaining - Vlad's not. If you have to ask whther an article is sarcasm/satire, then it isn't. Sorry to be a hater.
thejakeman @ Dec 30th 2006 3:07PM
@jonah
i like the elf, does that make me gay?
Jonah Falcon @ Dec 30th 2006 3:03PM
"Great idea in the spirit of the post. We've got a broken game play mechanism. How can it be fixed?"
Bad idea.
1. The actual arcade game did Per Coin, too. It just cost more to get an artificial high score.
2. No one is going to play Gauntlet forever just by adding coins. (Welllll, except to get that 100 Level Achievement, which is lame anyway)
3. Arcade games were repetitious, by their very nature. You're not old enough to have been playing these original arcade games when you were in double figures in age. And why anyone would purchase a game on their $400 console just to mimick having to spend more money like an arcade game that also cost $400 including cabinet back in the early 80's...
4. Once more, with feeling: THE XBOX LIVE ARCADE MULTIPLAYER DOES NOT HAVE THE INFINITE QUARTER OPTION. The game mechanic in THAT is you get a set amount of life to start each level which resets when you begin the next.
5. High scores are PER COIN - yes, I said that before, but certain people are completely missing the point.
6. Most people aren't going to play Gauntlet single player. Period. They're going to play offline and online with friends, as I do. I never play Gauntlet without someone else - well, except to gain those Achievements.
Now, when the @#&@^ is Settlers of Catan coming out?
Jonah Falcon @ Dec 30th 2006 3:04PM
By the way, if you bought a Gauntlet cabinet arcade game, are you going to plunk quarters for extra life? (evil grin)
Fisher @ Dec 30th 2006 3:05PM
That is such a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.
It's a worst-case-scenario idea.
It's when you have to keep paying to actually play the game. As many folks have put it, that's why the arcade went out of fashion. It's a terrible idea that would not only limit the appeal of the Xbox Arcade (buying a game that you sunk quarters to years earlier and playing it at your own pace), but its a terrible idea that would set a slippery slope for other games. How long before other companies beging making games with the "Authentic Arcade Experience"?
Maybe, just maybe, Gauntlet isn't quite broken? Perhaps it's fun? If people really do want to see how far they get on one quarter... perhaps.... they should just not press the "more health" button? I'd rather that those handful of complaining folks (if they're out there) show some self control rather then damn the entire "retro-arcade" section of my Xbox 360.
Matt @ Dec 30th 2006 3:06PM
I'm sorry, but there would be an extremely justifiable uproar if Microsoft charged for each 'quarter.' If I pay once for a game, in any format, I don't expect to have to pay anymore to keep playing it. It's atrocious, on par with the RIAA wanting to put anti-ripping technology in CDs. It's an infringement on the rights of the consumer. (If XBL offered two buying options - the arcade pay-to-play version and the pay-once version - then that would be fine. But then, no one would want the arcade one. Trust me.)
The arcade is dead. It had good points, it had bad points. Most of those good points are merely nostalgia, and nostalgia isn't worth unnecessarily raping your wallet for. Sorry. The idea is ludicrous.
Larb @ Dec 30th 2006 3:07PM
People, People, PEOPLE
Vlad is an idiot who deliberately eggs you on to gain more page hits. That's all he does!
Remember that "can't read the sign" bs?
I for one hate the blatant attempts to rile the masses. Stop encouraging him!
Jonah Falcon @ Dec 30th 2006 3:11PM
"I'd rather that those handful of complaining folks (if they're out there) show some self control rather then damn the entire "retro-arcade" section of my Xbox 360."
Gauntlet is the FIRST notable multiplayer arcade game. No one ever played Gauntlet - even in the arcades - without someone else. (For one, a single player in Gauntlet was dead meat after 2 levels anyway.)