Improve PS2 game graphics on PS3

by Zack Stern { Dec 31st 2006 at 7:25PM }

PS3 Fanboy -- know what you're getting into before drinking the water -- has been testing a simple fix for PS2 games that look bad on the PS3: lower quality cables. The site has multiple PS3 outputs plugged into a TV, and the writers recommend switching TV inputs from HDMI to composite when playing certain PS2 games.

While those gamers are still experimenting -- 2D, sprite-based games might look best on the higher quality, digital connection -- this sounds like a good tip for readers. Have you had any success banishing the jaggies?

Tags: cable, jaggies, jaggy

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

ryan @ Dec 31st 2006 7:33PM

hey remember when everyone was shitting their pants over ps2 on ps3 graphics and i said exactly this?

rom @ Dec 31st 2006 7:44PM

This does suck...I was thinking about getting a PS3 eventually, as my near-launch PS2 probably wont last much longer. Hopefully the problems are fixed by the time I get buy one. Is this even possible to fix with a firmware update?

Omar G. @ Dec 31st 2006 8:15PM

That's perfect since you don't get an HDMI cable with the PS3 anyway.

Burnt Meatloaf @ Dec 31st 2006 8:18PM

I doubt this can be fixed with firmware. The PS2 chip in the PS3 has its own dedicated memory and frame buffer, and that probably isn't accessable by the new hardware. If it was a simple fix, it would have been done already.

A future hardware revision is likely, but that does no good for current owners, of course.

Ironhide Delta @ Dec 31st 2006 8:20PM

I had a great fix for that on my old tv. I had to put my Dreamcast through the AV plugs on my VCR then coaxial to the TV. I called it my poor man's anti-aliasing!

Shibathedog @ Dec 31st 2006 8:30PM

WTF how would that help your dreamcast? Isn't that more of a poor mans RF Adapter? (Which BTW is not a bad idea, old VCRs often times do a better job than those radioshack universal RF adapters and are much cheaper now, i think the radioshack universal RF adapter is like 30 bucks, find a broken VCR that just doesnt play tapes for like a dollar on ebay, although it is alot bigger.)

syco @ Dec 31st 2006 8:38PM

rom, yep. I get the feeling that while there's probably a lot of PS2 and PS1 hardware floating around in the PS3's bulky innards, there's at least a layer of software abstraction, and that layer could be improved to support simple things like antialiasing and anisotropic filtering if Sony were so inclined.

However, due to Sony complete lack of interest in fufilling any of it's customers demands (I do believe the PS3 still has problems with scaling, which is honestly a much simpler problem than emulation) I wouldn't hold my breath on that update.

Jim @ Dec 31st 2006 8:42PM

And how about Sony getting their act together? I mean I don't switch cables because "it's so much fun".

Older Xbox games look great on X360, why not on PS3?

bearattack79 @ Dec 31st 2006 8:49PM

What do you do if you own the 20GB model.

nicomcm @ Dec 31st 2006 8:52PM

Sony is working on the PS2 emulator for the PS3.. so the PS2 hardware in the PS3 is just for the begining... after theere will be better retro without the emotion engine and graphic synthetiser.

Vince @ Dec 31st 2006 9:00PM

All the best for 2007 fanboys everywhere...even those who enjoy Wario Ware, roll on March, Europe.

Shagi @ Dec 31st 2006 9:02PM

The wii sucks, This little downgrade just goes to show that the ps3 is a much better buy, Why waste your time playing OLD games, Play the games that LOOK better

Ps3 all the way
You're all morons btw

Mr. Khan @ Dec 31st 2006 9:14PM

Now if there is any justice in the world

Vince will get another star, and Shagi will lose one

And what i like about GC on Wii is that i can now "force" certain GC games (notable SSBM) into 480p when they were not intended to go there (480p not in thier program), But you have to realize, there is going to be some backwards compatibility hickups, just be glad there is backwards compatibility at all (i still wish N64 had SNES backwards compatibility, then i wouldn't have to buy all these VC Titles)

Capt. Castellanos @ Dec 31st 2006 9:14PM

Shagi,
what does talking about the wii
have anything to do with this topic?
stop talking about how much another console sucks
just because you don't wanna look like an idiot because
your beloved ps2 games look like shit on your ps3.

Zach @ Dec 31st 2006 9:15PM

Shagi, you can go fuck yourself. The PS3 has nothing that can compete with the NES or SNES. Also, Twilight Princess is superior to Resistance.

Ando @ Dec 31st 2006 9:22PM

Yeah! I'll just downgrade my cables and change options!

OR Sony could take their head out of their ass and fix the problem.

Strike Man @ Dec 31st 2006 9:24PM

Can someone please stop posting this "fix"?

As I said in the other thread that this links to, making the whole image more blurry to hide the flaws is NOT a solution to the problem!

gman @ Dec 31st 2006 9:48PM

Best solution: Stick with your PS2, or go buy a slimmy. What's wrong with the ps2? they finally worked out all the launch hardware problems so grab one now. PS3 is good for.......troubleshooting bad hardware?

Steve2 @ Dec 31st 2006 11:06PM

I don't have any of these problems. And I use HDMI.

The inital reports said only some people saw them and only in certain games.

It's not a systemic problem, I've seen hide nor hair of it. I don't have MGS3 or FFXII though. I played Jak II and Bully, among others.

Anonymous @ Dec 31st 2006 11:36PM

gman:

What's the point of BC if it make your games look like shit? It's stupid as fuck to half-ass it and make such a handy feature flawed.

jlbachs @ Jan 1st 2007 12:00AM

This doesn't affect all games actually. I've been going through my collection of ps2 games to see which are good and which aren't, and I'm surprised at just how many look perfectly fine on my plasma. Probably about half so far. Some of the bad ones may not be perfect, but they're still completely playable as well. Besides, if I really wanted to play all my old ps2 games just like I did on my ps2, I would have kept it hooked up to the tv.
Yes, there are some key titles that aren't running 100% right now, but considering how many games are playing perfectly... not to mention the fact that graphics glitch or not, the ps3 IS playing pretty much all of the old ps2 games... I'm fairly impressed and happy with it. Give it time and hopefully Sony will be able to get this worked out so that it's a non-issue.

CKpr @ Jan 1st 2007 12:54AM

#8 - The 360 has a custom chip that will scale a signal to the max resolution supported by your TV (as configured in the dashboard settings). This is why original XBOX games look a bit better on the 360 and why there are no resolution scaling problems that currently plague the PS3. The PS3 has no such chip...so their only alternative is some sort of software solution/firmware update. While this issue could probably be fixed in software, I wouldn't hold your breath. Sony doesn't seem to care about it's customers.

Shagi @ Jan 1st 2007 12:58AM

Wow I don't even have to post anymore...thats pretty sweet.

The ZeroCorpse @ Jan 1st 2007 1:11AM

I just want to remind people that many Xbox games look BETTER on the XBox 360, and properly display in 720p.

I'm just sayin'

lil jamie p @ Jan 1st 2007 1:15AM

Here's a solution. Take a hammer and bash yourself in the face. Then PRESTO! Your eyes just blur over and no more jaggies. If you don't like concusions then maybe just drink a case of beer and then start playing.

Josh @ Jan 1st 2007 3:10AM

The problem with PS2 games on the PS3 only exists for games that don't support progressive-scan. Progressive-scan PS2 games look just as good on the PS3 as they do on the PS2. Sony just needs to find a way to add progressive-scan to PS2 games that don't support it natively. I'm pretty confident Sony will find a solution one way or another. Either way, my PS2 looks better plugged into one of my old CRTs via S-Video than it does plugged into any HD display using component.

Alex @ Jan 1st 2007 3:34AM

Kinda funny that the output quality of PS3 is too sharp. They're gonna have to add an anti-aliasing/blur filter into a firmware update to smoothen out these titles.

ill trooper @ Jan 1st 2007 4:16AM

" I just want to remind people that many Xbox games look BETTER on the XBox 360, and properly display in 720p.

I'm just sayin'

Posted at 12:47AM on Jan 1st 2007 by The ZeroCorpse"

Agreed, but still... It took several months and several updates from Microsoft to get it to a point where it supported eoungh games I cared about - so I'll give Sony the opportunity to clear it up over the next months too. Maybe it won't happen, but there is of course the big 'spring update' we keep hearing about - you know, the one that will suddenly make the PS3 everyone's favorite system, and update the PS3 WiFi to jam any nearby 360 controllers' signals.

DrXym @ Jan 1st 2007 7:35AM

The most likely reason for any display problems is that the TVs are not properly scaling 480i to 720p or 1080i when they get the signal through HDMI. Hence the workaround with composite. The problem almost definitely lies in the TV set, not the PS3. Still, it would have been nice if the PS3 had an upscaler built-in so that these sort of issues were mostly taken away from the whims of broken TV software.

Slaziman @ Jan 1st 2007 8:37AM

That wasn't the real Shagi idiots, just some dude playing around with you. Some nintendo fan boys are really stupid.

Alecks @ Jan 1st 2007 11:42AM

"the one that will suddenly make the PS3 everyone's favorite system, and update the PS3 WiFi to jam any nearby 360 controllers' signals."

LOL, That would certainly make it my favorite system, not because of fanboy issues, but because I love fucking with people. I can see it now..

:turn on ps3 early in the morning, Turn off neighbors xbox360 controllers: :muffled:" Aleckkks!!!!!!!"

hahaha, what a good morning that would be.

Evan @ Jan 1st 2007 11:46AM

DrXym, if you were to follow this problem since it was originally posted on AVSForum, you'd see that it's definitely not the tv.

Many PS2 games render at a lower-than-standard resolution and/or don't fill the over-scan region of the television, in order to reduce the number of pixels it has to render. Fewer pixels equates to higher performance.

This is not a problem with an analog video signal. With analog, only the vertical resolution is pre-defined. You can transmit an arbitrary horizontal resolution simply by tweaking the timing. As long as the horizontal scanline frequency remains the same (28KHz), you can change the duration of each pixel to pack in any number of pixels - 720x480, 640x480, 512x480, 320x480, 256x480 - and the overall signal remains compatible with televisions.

HDMI has a short list of pre-defined resolutions that are guaranteed to be compatible by most televisions. The PS3 is attempting to "stretch" the PS2's non-standard resolution into a standard resolution by duplicating 2 columns of pixels, every nth column. You can clearly see that in the photo Joystiq posted.

For example, look at the "I" in Kojima. A cross section of the "I" in the original image looks something like this:
0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0
But the PS3 is drawing the "I" as:
0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 1 0
The PS3 is duplicating the last two pixels, in order to increase the number of horizontal pixels.

A proper scaler would interpolate the additional pixels:
0 0 0 0.5 1 1 1 1 0.5 0
That would require additional circuitry in order to make those interpolation calculations, which would need to be hard-wired into the PS3. Firmware cannot add scaling capabilities to the PS3, because firmware cannot magically add transistors to an ASIC.

The possible solutions are:
a) Sony will add scaling hardware to future revisions of the PS3 (screwing people who have already purchased a PS3).
b) Produce a software PS2 emulator, which entirely bypasses the faulty hardware (Sony is probably working on this, because it would eliminate the Emotion Engine chip and make the PS3 cheaper to manufacture).
c) Instead of stretching the image to fit the standard resolution, pad it with black borders (this is not ideal because the user would see larger black borders on the left and right edges of the screen and the image's aspect ratio would appear slightly squashed).

girlygirl123 @ Jan 1st 2007 1:54PM

Wow, somebody give Evan an extra star.

RetroMUFC @ Jan 1st 2007 4:43PM

What about the "pixel flipping" that is happening in games? The problem is is mentioned in the first post in the unofficial thread on this problem on the Playstation 3 message board:

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&thread.id=808212

The_Boo @ Jan 1st 2007 7:22PM

Anyone remember that video Sony showed where the PS3 was supposedly running around a hundred or so HD streams to prove how powerful the Cell is? If that thing's got such huge balls why can't they use it to scale the video after it's been run through the ps2 chips?