Just the excuse I needed to finally buy a nancy drew title. Thank you Joystiq!!!!!!

wow

saints row was really something else

sure, it was a gta clone... and a poor one at that

sure, the graphics and framerate were underwhelming

sure, the game wasn't too much fun for non-pretend gankstaz

but hey, other than that it was a pretty mediocre game

ahh, lego star wars II

it wasn't interesting, they took the first lego star wars and seemed to give us more levels and gameplay that were not as much fun as the first

but hey, other than that it was a pretty average game, the type of stuff EA would be proud of

If you say Saints Row featured improvements over the "formula" then I'll bite, but to suggest that it trumped all that is GTA ... give me a break.

Oh? I've played all the GTA's since #1, and trust me, the firing system ALONE makes Saints Row a big improvement. I hope Rockstar was paying attention to everything Saints Row did right.

Saints Row is definitely a triumph over GTA.

It's humor wasn't as good. Nor was its style. Everything else blew GTA away.

Better plot, better graphics (obviously), significantly better combat ("significantly" doesn't do it justice), better cars, better driving, etc.

It also made customization meaningful. In SA there was no reason to upgrade cars. Here you kept the cars you upgraded in a garage. Just made life easier. You also kept your weapons after being arrested, another small but useful touch.


The tone and the style were off. But the gameplay was so far above GTA. Not to mention the lack of annoyances like the need to eat or the slow loading shop menus.


Will GTA4 blow it out of the water? Probably.
But it certainly blew the GTA3s out of the water. Didn't even look back. The combat alone really helps it. So much better.

Saint's Row will definitely make Rockstar think about adding some elements in GTA4. SR is an amazing game, and desires more people playing it

I dunno, I've found Saints Row to be very boring. Other than the graphics, there's nothing I like better about it over GTA. It just feels empty and boring. I'm probably going to sell it pretty soon here.

You think the plot in Saint's Row is good?

It pales next to any GTA.

Wanna remember what it's like when Rockstar does a game? Play Bully.

GTA:SA had far more plot development than Saints' Row. your character starts in the gangs, leaves the gangs, makes something of himself and returns as the prodigal son to finish things up.

In Saints' Row, you kill some other gangs. Well, actually, even after you obliterate one of the opposing gangs by taking all their territory, their missions still remain, and during them the gang members will chase you around while to try to finish the mission. Despite the fact that the gang doesn't exist anymore.

I enjoyed Saints' Row, I 100%ed it. But it's not a very developed game, everything except the technical aspects really falls short.

Personally, I found the car system in Saints' Row maddening. You couldn't even keep one of everything.

to say something has better graphics but a much worse style is an oxymoron. style is a huge contributor to graphics. look at gta3, its got an amazing sense of style which in turn makes the graphics more than good. if saints row was built on ps2 i can guarantee it would be despized by all.

au contraire, sir. Art style and graphical prowess are indeed two different things. A game can indeed have technically great graphics but a poor art style. I do agree with you that GTA has good art direction which keeps the graphics from dating too much.

Adding to ST's comment, even in real life which is of course the epitome of great graphics I see rooms and such with an incredibly poor sense of style. Homeworld is a game that I would now say has poor graphics but its style is pretty awesome in my opinion.

Saint's Row might lack the sheer style games like GTA have, in particular Vice City, but the improvements it makes to gameplay are absolutely vital. Their implementation of a targeting system, a GPS system on your radar, getting to keep your weapons when you fail - these are all problems that have been repeated countless times in GTA.

GTA still has a honeymoon effect on game reviewers. In reality, the game has a lot of issues - some that would sink lesser games - that are conveniently overlooked. The later missions are just frustrating and you have to be downright masochistic to enjoy those terrible RC helicopter missions. The targeting system is the bare minimum - in Liberty City Stories it was practically unusable. Ever heard of moving the camera to face a target rather than warping it?

Is Saint's Row the GTA killer? No. But it should send a signal to Rockstar that gameplay improvements can certainly be made for GTA4.

Given a second iteration, I think Saint's Row could be excellent. The biggest thing Saint's Row was missing was a compelling theme. Its gangbanging has been done before and done better. Its world is full of brownstone apartments and doesn't have much character. If it could latch onto a strong theme like Vice City has, it would be a GTA killer.

"It pales next to any GTA."

In plot?
Did you actually play San Andreas?


San Andreas put you in the shoes of a poor whiny kid from the city streets. You were fighting to defend your childhood home. Ok, fine.
After you took control of the entire city it put you in another city and took away all of your power and weapons. At this point I quit playing, between the broken autoaim, the slow-loading menus and having all my work mooted I had no interest. But my roommate kept playing, and I kept watching.
You take over two more cities. You buy a share of a casino. You take ownership of an experimental airfield. You find yourself worth millions of dollars.

But you're still on the streets fighting to save your childhood home?


Idiotic. Moronic.

At least in Saints Row you never actually own the homes and never actually have much money. You're doing it all for power and money to come. I can buy that. San Andreas you were still whining about your childhood block after being a multi, multi millionaire.

I couldn't buy that.

As for style, I don't even mean art style, or anything graphical.

Saints Row mostly failed with its jokes. The radio wasn't funny. Freckle Bitches wasn't funny. Most of the humor missed the mark. The dialogue wasn't particularly good (although the voice acting was, Daniel Dae Kim and Michael Clark Duncan did great jobs), and the swearing was too perpetual to be anything other than dull.

San Andreas worked better. The voice acting sucked, the plot sucked (did CJ ever stop whining?) but the dialogue and humor were sharper.

Wow, you guys are all top notch game critics. Excellent.

I've never played the GTA series before but I do own Saint's row. I find it entertaining. It's a good escape.

People who say it's humor misses the mark...wtf does that mean? The game plays well even if it is a rip-off an existing game. These things happen all the time.

For us 360 owners, there is no GTA to play on it, so I could care less how SR compares to that series. I have one choice for this type of open ended game play and I enjoy it. I think it's well done to the point of making me come back and play it to finish the objectives.

In the end, is that not what games are for? To play and have fun? It accomplishes that in spades.

Here's hoping that Volition will do a follow-on.

Many others have already stated the same sentiments that I share about this game, but I'm going to throw my hat into the ring anyway.

I think SR was a terrific game. The improvements over the GTA games are all significant. I can list 10 off the top of my head easily. These are all things that Rockstar should have considered when they started work on Vice City.

1. Save anytime, anywhere ('cept for on missions of course).
2. Never lose all of your weapons. You die, you lose money, that's it.
3. Never lose vehicles. You spend $1000 to customize a car only to have it blow up 5 minutes later? No problem, just go to the garage and have it repaired. It'll always be there.
4. Never get lost. You bring up your map and select your destination. An interactive green line shows up on your radar afterwards, always pointing you to the most direct route. No need to constantly bring the map up to plot your course.
5. Targeting system. I'm not listing these in any particular order, but if I were, this would be number 1. Aim exactly where you want, every time, all the time.
6. Multiplayer. I like it. Most people do. It's not for everyone, but the very fact that it even exists is a step up from the GTA series (the multiplayer modes in the PSP games not withstanding).
7. Persistent audio. You can keep listening to your music even when you leave the cars. I really like the music (even EZZY, which I love), and I hate for the songs to end just because I need to get out of the car.
8. The entire city is accessible from the very start of the game. No bridges are out or any other contrivances that would restrict you.
9. Health. You can heal any time just by standing still, providing you're not being damaged at the time. Or, you can bust out a burger and heal up instantly. In the GTA games, you're constantly running around hoping to find a hidden health icon. You might as well have to rely on magic golden coins or some other ancient game convention to heal yourself. You can buy food in San Andreas, but you can't keep any on your person.
10. Homies (or is it Homiez?). You can bring along up to 3 other computer controlled characters with you for most every mission. It gives you the feeling that you're not just one person versus the entire world. Plus, getting in a huge enemy gang vs you and your gang vs the police and FBI fight is fun as hell.

I could list a lot more than that, but those are the most significant changes to the formula in my opinion. There's other great things about the game as well, such as the real-time physics, the lack of load screens, the graphics, etc, but those things couldn't have been done on the last generation systems. I'm just pointing out the game concepts that give SR a big edge over the GTA series.

For those who just plain don't like SR, and you're entitled to your opinion, you should at least appreciate the improvements Volition has done to the "genre," whatever genre one might consider GTA games to be. I guarantee that many of these things will wind up in GTA4. We'll all be the better for it.

I was really surprised that Saints Row only got 81 out of 100 as an average rating on metacritic.com

I think that the fact that it is a GTA clone had an impact on ratings - because I think Saints Row is just as good as all of the GTA's (which have ratings of around 90 or more)

the nancy drew game is called *danger* by design! and i knew that off the top of my head :(