Phil Harrison on Rare's decline

by Zack Stern { Jan 3rd 2007 at 4:55PM }

On his Newsweek weblog, N'Gai Croal posts a brief exchange with Sony's Phil Harrison from October. The previously unpublished question asks Harrison's thoughts on why Rare has slid into irrelevance. Croal posted the question and answer because of the recent news about Rare's creators leaving the company.

Harrison does his best to remain diplomatic about the Microsoft-owned company and avoid the question. However, he alludes to Microsoft executives and corporate culture possibly disrupting Rare's style, although he also wonders if Rare's already secretive nature and inward focus hid industry trends from the company.

Is there any hope -- or reason to hope -- that Rare rebuilds itself? Or since its founders have left, should we just dust off our GoldenEye carts and reminisce?

Tags: GoldenEye, N'Gai Croal, N'gaiCroal, Phil Harrison, PhilHarrison, Rare

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Pedro @ Jan 3rd 2007 5:00PM

Rare became crappy LONG before MS was suckered into buying them. It has nothing to do with MS.

They started sucking by the end of the N64 era.

Brent @ Jan 3rd 2007 5:01PM

Bring back Diddy Kong Racing... holy crap would that be amazing.

Tony @ Jan 3rd 2007 5:02PM

I honestly doubt it was MS's doing in any sense. It's pretty clear that their other studios have been capable of putting out excellent, enjoyable games in a similar climate.

It was obviously something that was just going to happen. It was happening under Nintendo, it was happening under MS and it probably would have happened if they were left alone.

Honestly, considering how much I've enjoyed Viva Pinata (possibly the first Rare game I've loved since Blast Corps), some of my optimism for them has been restored.

JodyAnthony @ Jan 3rd 2007 5:07PM

Brent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diddy_Kong_Racing_DS

anOne @ Jan 3rd 2007 5:09PM

@ Brent- there is another diddy kong racing coming out, for the DS.

I think MS wanted Rare to be their #2 most-loved developer (after bungie), and had a lot of expectations for them that just happened to fall flat due to lack of direction for the developers.

I think a lot of it is because they were used to working their own way (and Nintendo's way). Too bad they couldnt make the game MS always wanted them to(a hit game that attracted all demographics, young and older)

Dracula Jones @ Jan 3rd 2007 5:12PM

I think because of Goldeneye and Banjo-Kazooie, people give Rare way too much credit. Apart from those games, what did they really contribute? Donkey Kong Country was a highly polished but mediocre platformer. Killer Instinct was a highly polished but mediocre fighter. Battletoads? Diddy Kong Racing? Ken Griffey Jr's Winning Run?!

I mean honestly, if you look at their list of published titles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Rare_Ltd._games), Kameo and Viva Pinata are standouts and some of the best work they've ever done.

Zertoss @ Jan 3rd 2007 5:12PM

Rare could possibly make a comeback if they were to revisit their past with, say, a new Battletoads game? Maybe a Killer Instinct?

Buckshot @ Jan 3rd 2007 5:26PM

Viva Pinata FTW!!!

Bryan @ Jan 3rd 2007 5:27PM

For a Sony exec, I'm impressed with Phil's diplomacy. Then again, perhaps he's trying not to burn any content bridges.

insane_cobra @ Jan 3rd 2007 5:27PM

Rare has rebuilt itself with Viva Pinata. How the departure of its two founding members affects its future remains to be seen. Bear in mind, though, that they might not cut all their ties with Rare and Microsoft. Remember what happened to Clover and Bungie recently?

Admiral @ Jan 3rd 2007 5:40PM

Not to bash on MS, but I briefly worked for Turbine Entertainment Software (Asheron's Call), and the MS presence didn't sit well with the company as a whole. I know that shortly after I left, Turbine did everything they could to get out from under MS and produce their own games.

Judd @ Jan 3rd 2007 5:40PM

Am I the only one that liked Rare's launch games? I mean Kameo was short, and PSZ single player didn't make any sense, but for it's length Kameo was fun and beautiful, and PDZ's multiplayer was very deep. I've yet to play Viva Pinata yet, but it's getting great reviews.

In response to Dracula Jones, if I had to say what my favorite all time games were, a ton of them would be N64 games by Rare. Goldeneye, and the original Perfect Dark is my favorite shooter ever. Banjo-Kazooie, Diddy Kong Racing, Donkey Kong 64, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Jet Force Gemini.

And also a lot of people ignored it because it wasn't what they expected out of Star Fox, but if you take it for it is Star Fox Adventures for the Gamecube was a great adventure game. Also at the time, the best looking game out there.

J.Goodwin @ Jan 3rd 2007 5:41PM

All of Rare's Xbox360 output has been of outstanding technical quality, IMHO.

Their problems are more in the concept stage and "how the hell are we supposed to market this" than in the execution. I think that a change of staff at the top might lead to games that have a better sense of "we have a concept, we know who it's for, and we're going to target our gameplay to that audience" than Kameo or Viva Pinata.

mandarin @ Jan 3rd 2007 5:45PM

ugh killer instinct. Yuck

Grendel711 @ Jan 3rd 2007 5:57PM

Viva Pinata is one of the best games of the year. Rare's decline? I think not.

Arex @ Jan 3rd 2007 6:02PM

Let's not forget R.C. Pro-Am for the NES.

Dracula Jones @ Jan 3rd 2007 6:21PM

Judd, I guess it was tough to live in Nintendo's shadow, especially when you're mostly publishing games that are mimicking the Nintendo style. I'm not saying Diddy Kong Racing was bad (or any of the games), I'm just saying that Mario Kart 64 was better. I played the hell out of Diddy Kong, but I came away from it feeling like it was a really good knockoff, like Banjo was a really good knockoff of Mario 64 with way too much collecting. Good games, just not as good as others.

Maybe their 360 games just seem better to me because there's nobody else making those games over there. There's no Better-Kameo or Original-Viva Pinata like there would have been on a Nintendo console (Zelda, Animal Crossing, and Pokemon).

nesone @ Jan 3rd 2007 6:22PM

killer instinct > mortal kombat

Thryon @ Jan 3rd 2007 6:32PM

What is all this talk about RARE being dead. So far the 3 games released for the Xbox 360 have all been very good games. Perfect Dark Zero was doomed to fail as it was expected to be the new Halo for the X360, but PDZ was never designed to be Halo.

Am I the only person that actually liked Kameo: Elements of Power? That game was the first platformer for me in a long time, and I found it fantastic.

And I cannot pull myself away from Viva Pinata. I stack Gears of War, Rainbow Six Vegas and WWE Smackdown vs Raw besides my Xbox to remind me to complete these games, but I keep reaching for Viva Pinata.

Sorry guys, maybe the games are not selling like hotcakes, maybe they need to repackage a few titles. I suggest.
Call of Kameo 04
Need for Pefect Dark Speed Zero
and Viva Madden 08

Then maybe these great games will record huge sales.

Foetoid @ Jan 3rd 2007 6:44PM

From what i have heard, Microsoft doesnt give Rare the support they like. Back in the days of the N64, Nintendo and Rare worked as closly as you could without it being called a merger, so the games were genius. Now that MS has them, they kinda let Rare do thier own thing as long as they adhere to the MS business strategy. I reckon Nintendo could now buy back Rare for 2/3 of the price they sold it for...profit FTW!. If rare want to survive with microsoft, they need to make a Killer Instinct game that looks at least as good as DOA4 and plays just as well as the older KI games.

Dirk Dorkelson @ Jan 3rd 2007 7:01PM

I agree with Judd's sentiments. PDZ multiplayer is the only thing from launch that I still play on a regular basis. It's incredibly deep, with the varied weapons, customizable maps, extensive bot options (to keep the foul-mouthed kids out of my game if I wish to play only with real-life friends ... every game should offer this) and a number of choices for gameplay types. Yeah, the graphics aren't realistic like Call of Duty or Gears of War, but they aren't meant to be, either. Also, unlike COD2 and some other 360 shooters, two or more people can play online multiplayer on the same console. I think this game really suffered from being marketed as the 360's Halo and from having a lame single-player campaign.

Kameo was OK, but frustrating controls on Deep Blue forced me to put the game down and I never really got back into it once I cleared the boss you have to fight using Deep Blue.

I've only recently started playing Viva Pinata, but it's been terrific thus far. I'd say two good games and one OK but flawed game aren't a bad track record on the 360.

NickG @ Jan 3rd 2007 7:06PM

Viva Pinata is a great game-- that if you give it a chance, can be really deep and somewhat challenging if you play it long enough.

It's the first game from Rare that I've enjoyed in years.

I don't blame Microsoft for their decline. Most of the games they released for the Xbox/360 were started before they left Nintendo and at best have been visually appealing, and well made, but poorly received otherwise. Viva Pinata is a chance to turn things around.

Although they can certainly mine their older IP, I would like to continue to see original property from Rare that's unique to the Xbox. They have a totally unique style, and if they continue to produce games like VP, I can't wait to see what else they might have in store for us.

thebes @ Jan 3rd 2007 7:08PM

the problem is xbox360fanbots dont know good games. i mean Halo? haha.

Rare needs to get on a real console.

im out.

tack @ Jan 3rd 2007 7:18PM

Not enough blood. Kids today cant have fun without people dieing. Its sick, but its the truth. Mario will never have another good game until they give him a sword. Just not in the culture anymore.

razer @ Jan 3rd 2007 7:29PM

Kameo is a fantastic game!! For a launch title I don't know much else you could of asked for from the game? (Longer?) The gameplay was great, graphics were awesome and it hit the mark on just about everything I like on a platformer.

Maybe #24 has a point and a majority of 360 user's don't know a good game if it hits them in the face?
But I'm one of them and I liked it so I dunno.. It makes me wonder how well it would of been recieved on the PS3?

J.Goodwin @ Jan 3rd 2007 7:44PM

I think there is a Northwest / Northeast culture difference that keeps biting Microsoft and games.

Clearly MIT's been a massive breeding ground for development studios and people who ended up at Microsoft eventually in some fashion, and in many cases the people have just gotten kind of sick of Microsoft after a while. (Probably Seamus Blackley is one of the highest profile examples).

There's a big gap between the kind of founder small shop culture that permeates the northeast and the massive corporation culture of the northwest. To me, it all comes down to Krispy Kreme and Papa John's. Neither one have been able to get their foot into the Boston market, and I don't think they ever will.

Krispy Kreme opened up half a dozen shops a couple years back and they were all shuttered inside a year. Smaller local places or northeast-based chains dominate the cultural psyche here. You see more independent and regional chains here in Boston than you see anywhere else in the country. I think that's symptomatic of the culture gap that I mentioned.

J.Goodwin @ Jan 3rd 2007 7:51PM

That was a comment about Turbine, btw, not Rare. I'm crazy but not a fool.

Jeff @ Jan 3rd 2007 8:40PM

"Krispy Kreme opened up half a dozen shops a couple years back and they were all shuttered inside a year. Smaller local places or northeast-based chains dominate the cultural psyche here. You see more independent and regional chains here in Boston than you see anywhere else in the country."

Please don't tell me you're from Boston and have never heard of a little chain called Dunkin' Donuts. And Christ, you can be *anywhere* and have heard of Starbucks.

Big chains are just as prevalent in the northeast as anywhere else. (I'm a native New Yorker.)

C8M @ Jan 3rd 2007 9:27PM

Anyone talking about the decline of Rare has not played Viva Pinata. It is basically the best Sim game ever released for a game console. Viva Pinata is one of the best games of the year. It is easily one of the best games Rare has ever made. Personally I think it's better than GoldenEye was. Only nitpick is it should have online multiplayer, but I think that is coming as a future download.

Bazooka @ Jan 3rd 2007 11:23PM

Rare will never pull out another good shooter since the team responsible for Goldeneye and Perfect Dark Zero left a while ago to create Free Radical. And for the record, Time Splitters feels and plays and rocks just like Perfect Dark did but with a little more comedy. I love Free Radical, looking forward to Haze.

Doesn't mean rare sucks. You just have to consider it like any other studio for now, their team has changed. Consider it like a new studio that needs to prove itself. I think they did with Viva Pinata.

+?* @ Jan 4th 2007 12:08AM

Why is everyone saying RARE is dead?...
Because it is not Rareware. It is RARE. The only things that these two companies have is the IP history. With Nintendo backing Rareware released great games based off other Nintendo projects,(Conker's Bad Fur Day and both Banjo Kazooie were based off of Super Mario 64, and Jet Force Gemini was based off of Metroid.), non original projects( GoldenEye 64), or off of IPs that Rareware does not own(Donkey Kong series and Killer Instint). Rareware only original IPs during the N64 days were Blast Corps and Perfect Dark. Rareware had the benefit of making games for the N64. They had alot of time to develop those games without Nintendo breathing down their necks with deadlines. Nintendo wants greatness and achievements in their games especially if they are going to have Nintendo's name on it. Nintnendo delayed games multiple times to achieve this. After the company start losing employees that were critical in the making of all of those games Rareware became RARE. Then the sell happened. Microsoft thought they were purchasing the best publishers in the bussiness but the truth is that they purchased a brand new publisher that had phenomal success in the past. Microsoft then began to treat them like they were Rareware, not something new. Microsoft hype RARE's first game like it was the second Renaissance in gaming. It was Gone With the Ghoulies. Microsoft suddenly released what they bought: a brand new company without the talent of their glory days. Microsoft then began to have a tighter grip on projects to avoid another mistake like that; they even began overhyping and over advertising games that were not great. I'm not saying Microsoft did anything wrong but they were not prepared for what happened in the next five years. Not from a publisher who they bought to be their number one developer and publisher within their regime. They paid Nintendo that much money for the best talent in Europe for making GREAT CLASSICAL GAMES.Now do not get me wrong when I say this; KAMEO is a good launch title game and Viva Pinata is a great game. Those titles are not enough when you only made five titles with a unlimited resource cmpany like Microsoft providing funds for you. Gone with the Ghoulies was horrible, Conker: Live and Reloaded was a poor excuse for a port, Joanna Dark was a lot more ...great when she was a Brit. RARE does have talent and hopefully they will live up to the hype that Microsoft gives them. But at the moment they are not living up to $$$ Microsoft paid for them. i believe RARE last chance is with the new Banjo Kazooie game. If it flops RARE will become a third party developer. If it succeeds then RARE will began to be in Microsofts reliabe circle of developers. RARE is not dead but beganing to be born again. Rareware is dead and its not coming back

Quakeulf @ Jan 4th 2007 12:16AM

Free Radical's FPS-games have looked so bland I could never get into them. Also I find console FPS-ing rather unapproachable now with the forced dual stick control schemes. I preferred it the one analogue stick way (Goldeneye 007 and Perfect Dark) and having digital buttons for the rest. When you play an FPS on PC the only "analogue" input are the mouse's xy-directions, the rest is handled by digital buttons on the mouse and the keyboard.

Give me total control over how I can setup my control scheme on a console FPS and I might get into it. Also, less bland graphics as have plagued Timesplitters would help a lot too. Look nowhere else than to Crysis, Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 for inspiration in the graphical department.

+?* @ Jan 4th 2007 1:04AM

Correction:@32 It was Grabbed by the Ghoulies.
You dummy.

mike @ Jan 4th 2007 3:04AM

"Rare became crappy LONG before MS was suckered into buying them. It has nothing to do with MS."

Hahaha...

You mean they sucked way before MS bought them?
They sucked way before Nintendo gave them the boot?

And this makes MS look smart how?
Dude, they bought Bungie.
Bought.
MS corporate culture is IBM circa 1981. Please.

maximus @ Jan 4th 2007 5:49AM

Maybe Sony are looking for some new talent.

Dave Smith @ Jan 4th 2007 7:57AM

Rare's games, up to and including the 360 releases, have always been at least good, and often they have been great. IMHO, they tried to 'unlock' the Nintendo platformer formula and succeeded with their N64 releases. They tried shooters and succeeded on the N64 and to some degree on the 360. Viva Pinata? I don't own it so I can't comment. I really wouldn't have thought of Rare as in decline. Does the MS buyout help or hurt them? I don't know... honestly, I don't care who owns them if the product is good.

Almack64 @ Jan 4th 2007 11:10AM

@ Dracula Jones #6
What are you talking about after reading the list that you linked to expecting to be utterly depressed by it, what I came to see is that Rare has made some of the best (fun) games of all time. Especially in the NES era. I never some of my favorite old games were made by Rare. True in that list there are certainly some lackluster additions but for the most part it is a pretty impressive list. I have to agree with those saying that Rare was defintely doing well until the tailend of the N64 era.

Erik Novak @ Jan 4th 2007 12:23PM

Hell, I was hoping the well reviewed Viva Pinata would pull them up a bit.

Morale @ Jan 4th 2007 5:02PM

Dust off those Goldeneye carts.

They were good when Nintendo was simultaneously holding Rare's hand in one hand, cracking a whip in the other, and shoving Rare's nose to the grindstone with a knee in their back.

I had thought Nintendo's letting Rare go was the biggest mistake, then again I was still sore for not seeing a true Rare Bond sequel (see Goldeneye end-game credits: "JAMES BOND WILL RETURN AGAIN"), and seeing as how Microsoft can't do anything well with them, maybe it was Nintendo's synergy with Rare that made them good.

Then again, a bunch of the Goldeneye team went off and made TimeSplitters, so go figure.

RUSKULL @ Jan 5th 2007 9:35AM

Donkey Kong Country was amazing. Would be cool to see a new RC Pro Am too actually

ZaxCG2 @ Jan 7th 2007 9:33AM

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MY ONCE FAVORITE COMPANY, MICROSOFT?! They freakin' flourished under Nintendo. From Banjo-Kazooie to Jet Force Gemini, some of my favorite games will no longer have a chance of being rebirthed... in a true-to-the-game fashion that is.
I guess this means Banjo-Kazooie 360 probably won't hold the same heart as it once did. :(