Microsoft: HD-DVD might be "next Betamax," switch to Blu-ray still possible
Speaking with Ars Technica, Microsoft Director of Platform Strategy Scott Henson explained that the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive would likely never be internalized into a future version of the console because "[we] don't want to charge customers $200 extra for something that may be the next Betamax." While Henson's frank remark is definitely a PR no-no (though it could easily be interpreted as a shot at Sony), it simply echoes the current state of uncertainty: No one knows which format, HD-DVD or Blu-ray, will prevail. Microsoft has clearly aligned itself and the Xbox 360 with HD-DVD, but it's left open the possibility of a Blu-ray switcheroo -- Peter Moore openly acknowledged as much during CES last year.Early HD-DVD add-on adopters might eventually get burned (if the format fails), but this certainly won't affect all, if even a majority, of Xbox 360 owners. On the flip side, if Blu-ray flops, 100% of PlayStation 3 owners will feel the burn. Sony is still the bigger risk taker.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
bubbastump @ Jan 5th 2007 4:01PM
This was clearly ment to be a jab at Sony. He's saying...we are not going to force an extra expense down peoples throats for something that may not succeed...clearly refering to Sony's inclusion of Blu-Ray in PS3 which is speculated to add about $200 of cost to the PS3.
The 360 gives consumers the choice on wheter or not they want to take the plunge into HD-DVD.
Scott @ Jan 5th 2007 4:01PM
Blu-Ray/HD DVD drive add-on?
Can't disagree with them though. Hard to hitch your wagon on any one format right now.
JDH @ Jan 5th 2007 4:04PM
http://www.justinhall.com/2007/01/marcs-voice-blog-archive-iptv-and.html
Its all going to be ok...
Antonio @ Jan 5th 2007 4:04PM
I'm glad Microsoft decided to go with the external HD DVD drive. I love mine and at $200 it was not a big deal. Now that combo players are coming out (the LG that is going to be announced at CES) I don't have to worry about the 5 (and future)HD DVD movies I have. Sony is the one that should be worrying.
Josh @ Jan 5th 2007 4:05PM
Too bad Joystiq's headline is horribly misleading...
Mike @ Jan 5th 2007 4:05PM
Wow James you are stupid. It was a jab at Sony, who chose to include what might be the next Betamax at the consumers' expense. The Microsoft spokesperson simply rebuffed Sony's strategy.
JDH @ Jan 5th 2007 4:08PM
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2079049,00.asp
...see there you go.
The Kid @ Jan 5th 2007 4:14PM
ROFLMAO;
Wow; openly admitting HD-DVD is a flop! That was no jab at sony! OMG this is too funny.
Dukhat @ Jan 5th 2007 4:15PM
Actually its pretty clear that blu-ray will win. Microsoft is the one trying to twist its support of HD-DVD as non-support in general.
Blu-Ray has the content. Blu-Ray has the manufacturing support. Blu-Ray has the technical superiority.
Dual-format players will only delay either format becomign cheaper fast enough to go mainstream, nor will it sell enough since a dual format player will cost MORE than either a single format Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player.
GG n00bs.
Jeff @ Jan 5th 2007 4:16PM
"On the flip side, if Blu-ray flops, 100% of PlayStation 3 owners will feel the burn."
Er, well, no, because the PS3's Blu-Ray drive is not just for playing movies, as the Xbox 360's HD-DVD drive is.
If Blu-Ray as a movie format fails, the PS3 will continue to play all of the Blu-Ray PS3 games it always did just fine, and developers will continue taking advantage of that extra storage capacity.
ill trooper @ Jan 5th 2007 4:21PM
Microsoft is waffling on HD-DVD, which is OK, as they aren't going to really benefit that much from it's sucess or get hurt if it fails. Like most corporations, if it turns sour, they bail - witness the 'Plays for Sure' to the Zune transition.
I'd have liked my 360 come with an HD-DVD drive built-in, and I like the blue-ray in my PS3 - I like movies. I want more of them in HD.
The external drive option is only good on paper in my eyes - yes the 'choice' is there, but it lacks any design grace, gives the system two mutually exlusive drives with two purposes ("make sure you put that game in the correct drive, no not that one, the other one" situations), adds another power cord, and takes up more space.
Put it inside the box, Microsoft!
logikil @ Jan 5th 2007 4:22PM
Joystiq isn't the only blog that did this. Kotaku had a similar article earlier this morning and both in my opinion are misleading. The article implies that MS came out and said oops we think HDDVD is going to fail.
In reality if you read the comment in context they are clearly poking at the fact that you are stuck with the Blu-Ray player in the PS3. They chose to go with an external add-on to avoid sticking customers with an uncertainty. Now how that gets translated into what the title implies is beyond me, other than to bait fanboys and snag a few more posts. Either way, before you comment read the article.
MS is in no way backing off of HDDVD.
BklynKid @ Jan 5th 2007 4:22PM
I just got my 360 HD-DVD drive a few days ago and I couldn't be happier.
This is gonna sound so self-important but usually when I buy into a technology I've never bought the "wrong one" (read: never bought into a technology that didn't prevail). So according to my previous luck, I'll predict that HD-DVD will win.
samik @ Jan 5th 2007 4:23PM
Even if blu-ray fails to pick up as a movie media you will have tens of millions of PS3 and Blu-ray will continue to be supported as a games media...whereas 2-3 years later, with the sort of explosion in storage requirement (6GB for 6 hours of Gears of war), and high-resolution TVs becoming cheaper, its is quite likely that Blu-Ray / HD will become standard..MS will come out with an "upgrade". And then all the current XBOX fanboys, wil be stuck with an obselete console. 360 core owners - you will have a 4-piece console: Main body + HD player + external power supply + external hard disc, and no wireless...with all the additions it will end up costing the same as the PS3 now. Some of us will realise the folly of believing the company that is famous for ripping off Windows users in EXACTLY the same way
aC @ Jan 5th 2007 4:25PM
Man sometimes people are oblivious to what's right in front of their face. Ben "the interviewer from Ars" even stated flat out that it was to be interpretted like that.
Although others have already said it, it was a jab in two separate ways.
First, stating that Sony's plan to force impliment the BD drive at a higher price point was flawed as neither side has a winner (and to Dukhat, it'd be nice if you realized that if anyone was currently winning, it's HD-DVD based on market share and released media, but I really don't care, I plan to have both), and they may be investing in something that completely flops.
This is on top of the fact that Sony is known for losing out on new formats when they try their own hand. Case in point, is _Betamax_ used in the example, and UMD as well as their penchant to push proprietary formats that do _somewhat_ succeed (if only because there are so many Sony-philes in the world, and you can't use their products without it), like memory stick.
++ to the misleading title as well. But we are on Joystiq.
Jason B @ Jan 5th 2007 4:26PM
Jeff
Good points, but I wonder, if Blu Ray does flop who will continue to manufacture Blu Ray discs? Sony? If Sony is the only supplier of disks then how does the marketplace help to determine the price of pressing/burning those discs for game publishers? If there is a monopoly on BR manufacturing there is no competitive market. Couldn't that have a negative impact on game production costs?
Morisato13 @ Jan 5th 2007 4:34PM
Everyone seems to think that Sony made a big mistake in building the PS3 with built in Blu-Ray, but I seem to differ. Before anyone questions who I am, I'm not a Sony fanboy, I dont expect to buy a PS3 until it drops like 50% and I own an xbox, xbox360, ps2, gamecube, ds, ds lite, and 3 GBAs (crystal chronicles). Everyone compares the inclusion of BR as a mistake in terms of HD movies but in the case of GAMING which is what a GAME SYSTEM should be for, if Sony and their game developers ever figure out how to utilize that extra data space on the BD, even if BR goes to $hit like the betamax, there will still be the need for BDs for the PS3. Everyone should know that BD is already $hit as a storage device for PC (with the coming of that holographic film thing holding, I believe, a tera in a small floppy disk square of film). The point is, you are not paying $200 extra for a useless feature of playing bluray movies. You are paying $200 extra for a gaming system that uses a disc that holds 50gb of space. Whether they figure out how to use this space to their advantage over MS's 8.5gb is still in question, but playing bluray movies are just an added feature. MS will never be able to release HD-DVD games for the 360 because early adopters would be screwed, unless they start handing out HD-DVD drives (doubtful). Of course, they could still build an xbox with build in HD drive, but why? They wouldnt be able to utilize the space for gaming unless they started handing out drives, and would have to charge the extra dough to those who are buying the updated 360. It only makes sense to MS to keep the HD drive as an add-on, allowing customers to have the freedom to back out of/choose not to enter the format wars in case HD DVD does fail.
Oh, by the way, I do believe it was a stab at Sony adding the blu-ray, but with the misconception of it being for movies only. Sony could easily stab back... once they figure out how to use 50gb... which seems to be way more then they need (see post on R:FoM 8.5gb). I guess they could make a true 40+ hour game like the old days if they wanted to, but we'll see.
Keil Joy @ Jan 5th 2007 4:38PM
so now buying the PS3 is a risk?!! nice try, Bozo. Face it- Sony's got a loyal following. And the only risk we face is listening to critics like you.
KingBroly @ Jan 5th 2007 4:39PM
This total HD basically means BR will win, but HD supporters won't get burned. BR is a bigger disc than HD, and even though we're probably going to see next-gen consoles with this THD disc slot in them, most discs will probably be blu-ray.
Thought @ Jan 5th 2007 4:40PM
@BklynKid
Thats actually funny because I decided to go the blu-ray route and usually the tech I buy doesnt fail either so I guess its not going to flop because I bought it.
Schnozberry @ Jan 5th 2007 4:40PM
Well, we all know that both technologies will not co-exist in the marketplace as they currently do. My guess is the winner will be whoever the porn industry adopts as it's standard. So my guess is HD-DVD because it's cheaper.
If you take history into account, VHS won the battle with beta-max because of how cheap it was to produce tapes, and I think the same will happen with the DVD format wars.
Also, I think Sony sticking with MPEG2 as their video codec is puzzling, considering VC1 is much more efficient and identical or even superior in quality. Oh well, we'll see how it goes.
Bov @ Jan 5th 2007 4:41PM
I thought the PS3 is not a GAMING SYSTEM rather a computer of sorts in which I would argue that multi-media playback is a key to the format.
Also BR is a possible selling point for the PS3 should it possibly fail than they could lose potential casual customers?
Thought @ Jan 5th 2007 4:47PM
@Schnozberry
Your way off, first that whole porn thing doesnt stand up because the internet is around now and the pron industry uses that as their main way.
2nd mpeg-2 coding was only used for the early blu-ray movies but they are using the vc-1 codec, I recently purchased swordfish for my ps3 on blu-ray and its in vc-1.
so sorry but no cigar
AssemblyLineHuman @ Jan 5th 2007 4:48PM
The Kid: No, if you think that Microsoft was admitting anything, you're not noticing the blatant intent of his comment. When he says, "[we] don't want to charge customers $200 extra for something that may be the next Betamax," what he really means is, "Future PLAYSTATION 3 customers, think about what you are paying for before you buy it. We're offering you a console for $400 and giving you the choice of purchasing HD movie capabilities that could turn out useless in a few years while Sony is offering you a console where you must pay for HD movie capabilities that could turn out the same way." Of course, what it will really boil down to is what games the consoles get and what games people want.
KaneRobot @ Jan 5th 2007 4:52PM
"Early HD-DVD add-on adopters might eventually get burned (if the format fails)"
I don't see how. If you used the easily available $40 coupon for the HD-DVD add-on, you got a new release, big name movie, a remoted, and an HD-DVD player for a mere $160 bucks. HD-DVD could be completely dead by 2008 and I still wouldn't feel ripped off. It's not like if the format dies I auddenly cannot play all the HD-DVDs I've amassed until that point.
Slaziman @ Jan 5th 2007 4:52PM
Jeff,
So you mean that not having to change CD's for a large game is worth 200$? Dumbass. Storage is the only feature Blu-Ray has over DVD on the gaming level, and multiple disks have never been a problem before...
KaneRobot @ Jan 5th 2007 4:54PM
Whoa, typo-mania.
sploy @ Jan 5th 2007 4:57PM
At the end of the day blu ray will fail as a movie format because it has a crap, unrecognisable name that nobody outside the gaming community will think of as a movie format. HD-DVD sounds like a DVD in HD... and people are likely to understand that straight away. If avg Joe buys a HDTV, he's going to think that he should watch HD-DVDs on it. Betamax also sounded stupid.
WedgeTalon @ Jan 5th 2007 4:57PM
MS has already made it fairly clear that they view this whole HD-DVD vs Bluray thing as very temporary as they see digital distribution defeating both in a not-so-distant future.
And I agree.
That aside, it's hard to imagine that they were doing anything EXCEPT dissing Sony.
Maybe my additions will make the quote a bit clearer for you? "[We] don't want to charge customers $200 extra for something that may be the next [*Sony*] Betamax. [Sony is charging you $200 extra for their console! LOLz!]."
David004 @ Jan 5th 2007 4:58PM
Blu-Ray is better, but so was betatapes. Right now the support by a mile is against Sony. This is obviously a jab at Sony for making the PS3 so expensive for something most don't care about, if you can't see that then you just have your head too far up Sony's ass.
Liquid @ Jan 5th 2007 4:58PM
@Jeff
"and developers will continue taking advantage of that extra storage capacity"
Er, they have to start first.
Keil Joy @ Jan 5th 2007 4:58PM
' Wow; openly admitting HD-DVD is a flop! That was no jab at sony! OMG this is too funny. '
maybe your glasses didn't pick up this part of the article:
' On the flip side, if Blu-ray flops, 100% of PlayStation 3 owners will feel the burn. Sony is still the bigger risk taker. " This is yet another deliberate attempt to discredit the PS3. That's it! it has almost nothing to do with the format wars.
Pip @ Jan 5th 2007 5:00PM
This is nothing more than news sensationalism.
Joystiq knows what he meant, and they twisted it around to make people look. Hopefully people actually read the article and realize that Joystiq misled them.
AssemblyLineHuman @ Jan 5th 2007 5:05PM
Slaziman: I don't think Jeff was inferring that the extra storage space necessarily is worth $200. He was just pointing out that if you buy a PLAYSTATION 3, the Blu-Ray drive does not become instantly useless if Blu-Ray flops because it is still used to play games, whereas anyone who buys the 360 add-on HD-DVD drive will have effectively thrown away $200 if HD-DVD flops.
Also, it remains to be seen how that extra ~40 GB will be used, but I suspect it will be used primarily by game developers who don't feel like compressing their stuff or for useless extra features that are tacked on to make the PS3 version of a multi-platform title "unique."
Of course, the point Microsoft was trying to make was that their HD-DVD drive is optional, so people don't have to take the risk of spending the $200.
Hexx @ Jan 5th 2007 5:12PM
I agree with #1, I read the statement earlier today as while Sony may want to stick you with the next betamax we are going to give you the option of choosing whether or not you want to be stuck with it.
Slaziman @ Jan 5th 2007 5:13PM
The Blu-Ray drive WOULD become useless EXCEPT for games having more storage, which is useless because multidisk games exist. So you would've thrown 200$ anyway.
Mr. Khan @ Jan 5th 2007 5:20PM
@ samik
By the time it would be truly practical to put an HDDVD right in the 360 (2009, when America and others are forced to go HD), well, by then, Xbox 1080 will be out (or Xbox Vista, the name depends on how well they do this gen)considering Xbox had a 4 year dominant span (2001-2005), it seems reasonable that MS would adapt a 4 year span, opposed to Nintendo's 5 year average
And i believe it was not a jab at Sony, except insomuch as to mock the horrendous failure that was Blu-ray (at its height, it still only had about 25% of the market, so it was never really in the running), and to state that for the time being, we will force gamers to adapt no format but the standard (DVD)
Buckshot @ Jan 5th 2007 5:21PM
With HD-DVD's outselling blu-ray 10 to 1, I find it hard to believe that blu-ray even stands a chance. New Line Cinema has just picked hd-dvd, so we will have some LOTR soon. WOOT!
The new Blu-ray movie, "Descent", won't play on some Blu-ray players, including Sony's own BDSP1, due to Java incompatibilities.
Ben Friesen @ Jan 5th 2007 5:22PM
Stubby made an excellent point over at Wired's Game|Life blog, a point which I've made in the past but I think he put a lot more eloquently;
"What people don't seem to get is that this is not a format war between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. It's a format war between HD formats and DVD. While a true videophile may see the difference between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray there really isn't much there for the common consumer. The difference between VHS and DVD was much more clear cut. While one may not care too much about picture quality a lot has to be said for not needing to rewind the film once you were done watching it, the ability to pause on a single frame rather than the delay from a VHS slow-to-a-stop pause, the ability to select a single chapter or scene rather than going through the process of fast-forwarding or rewinding a tape to get to the part you fell asleep at and of course the bonus features and deleted scenes. These are the more tangible benefits of the DVD that many people aren't taking into consideration.
With HD-DVD you really aren't getting much more. Greater capacity? While this is convenient, it's really not a selling point to the average DVD owner who really wasn't complaining about the fact that a disc-swap took place in the Lord of the Rings films or Pearl Harbor. Yes it's not entirely convenient, but it's an inconvenience that people were willing to accept. This is why I'm not at all upset that an HD-DVD drive on the 360 is an add-on instead of an integral part."
Add in the fact that only 11% of homes have HDTVs right now, and you can see why a lot of people wouldn't want to spend that extra $200.
Mr. Khan @ Jan 5th 2007 5:27PM
woops, i meant to say Horrendous failure that was betamax, not blu-ray (although i expect the same fate awaits Blu-ray)
Ben Friesen @ Jan 5th 2007 5:30PM
"(2009, when America and others are forced to go HD)"
Actually, the law that you're refering to only means that Americans will need to switch from analog to digital - not from SDTV to HDTV. FYI, most SDTVs sold in the past five years were required to have a digital to analog converter in them (or accept digital signal) - so most people with SDTVs are already set. In addition to that, you can already buy a converter for about $50, so it doesn't make sense to go out and buy an HDTV unless picture quality is of high importance to you (and you have a lot of disposable income).
AssemblyLineHuman @ Jan 5th 2007 5:30PM
Mr. Khan: You mean Betamax, not Blu-Ray right? If that's what you mean, I think exactly the opposite. The Betamax comparison seems to come too naturally to be an intentional jab at Sony, but if you read his comment in the context of comparing the advantages and disadvantages of the PS3 vs. the 360, it becomes pretty clear that this is intended to be more than a jab. This entire comment is an attack on Sony's inclusion of Blu-Ray in the PS3.
Qtrain2brooklyn @ Jan 5th 2007 5:35PM
": Storage is the only feature Blu-Ray has over DVD on the gaming level, and multiple disks have never been a problem before... "
ok. so then a single disk should be an even greater convenience, shouldn't it?
Some of you reading this now are peeing in your pants, trying to add ways to criticize sony. you just wait till Sony and it's 3rd party developers learn to make use of all that extra space! I can't wait.
Virtua Fanboy @ Jan 5th 2007 5:36PM
8. ROFLMAO;
Wow; openly admitting HD-DVD is a flop! That was no jab at sony! OMG this is too funny.
Posted at 4:14PM on Jan 5th 2007 by The Kid 0 stars
OH NO, Microsoft PR guys would never take a stab at Sony. I'm not really taking it personally or anything but wow, I gotta give credit where credit is due brother.
You are a fucking dumbass.
Jonesy @ Jan 5th 2007 5:36PM
Can people PLEASE stop saying Blu-ray is Sonys thing it isn't lol:
The Blu-ray Disc format was developed by the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA), a group of leading consumer electronics, personal computer and media manufacturers, with more than 170 member companies from all over the world. The Board of Directors currently consists of:
Apple Computer, Inc.
Dell Inc.
Hewlett Packard Company
Hitachi, Ltd.
LG Electronics Inc.
Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd.
Mitsubishi Electric Corporation
Pioneer Corporation
Royal Philips Electronics
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.
Sharp Corporation
Sony Corporation
Sun Microsystems, Inc.
TDK Corporation
Thomson Multimedia
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney Pictures
Warner Bros. Entertainment
So quite how this makes it Betamax anyway which was a sony proprietary (like UMD) is anyones guess.
On the a different note, I would really like Microsoft to make the new model with HD-DVD built in. For games. And HDMI lol
And who cares, unless Ars comes out and clarifies what he says you can interpret the comment either way i guess.
S_DOG34 @ Jan 5th 2007 5:44PM
@ samik
You seem to assume that the HD war will be settled during the lifetime of the 360 and PS3 - it won't. A news article showed that the DVD player has only outpaced the VCR in American homes within the last few months. That switchover offered tons more features for the average person and didn't require a new expensive TV. Combine this also with the fact that many people cannot even tell the difference anyways (I don't know how, but they claim they can't).
We're talking many years before any serious market penetration...by that time Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players will be significantly cheaper than the PS3 or 360 so most people will go with standalone players. I just don't see the point. If people don't see by now that putting Blu-Ray in the PS3 (at least initially) was a whopper of a mistake then they have no sense of reality.
The Kid @ Jan 5th 2007 5:44PM
Nah; It's clear that they have no faith in HD-DVD and that it's performing poorly against blu ray.
Betamax failed as a consumer format but it did not fail as the recording/playback format of choice in professional broadcast studios.
Blu Ray is definitley going to be a great format for gaming and movies because of the storage capacity.
MS and it's 360 are losers just like the HD-DVD format.
Windows ME was a great OS too right?; Roflmao!
Qtrain2brooklyn @ Jan 5th 2007 5:48PM
@ Morisato13
well said, my friend, well said..
spick @ Jan 5th 2007 5:50PM
I think an overlooked issue here is that Blu-ray drives are not backwards compatible with DVDs, whereas the HD-DVD drive can also play regular DVDs. I was surprised to read this just the other day as it may have a large impact on folks who want to upgrade to an HD format but also have a large DVD library.
BklynKid @ Jan 5th 2007 5:54PM
@Thought
But I said it first. :p