Gates now sees Nintendo as primary competition

You know what the problem is with the 360...

BILL GATES.

Can someone tell this xerox copying machine of a human being to go away? Go hide in your 50,000 sq ft mansion and leave us alone. Your operating system, albeit the standard across the world, is as unsecure in the hands of dolts as it's ever been. Your iPod wannabe is a disaster. And now you took a huge white dump in the gaming world called the XBOX360. Please leave now.

And now you want to squeeeze every penny out of that huge dump you just took. XBOTS prepare to open wallets and take out your overburdened credit cards, your massa needs a new Porsche.

I'm thinking things look better for the 360 not just because of overall sales world wide but attachment rate as well. Xbox 360 owners are buying a lot of games and especially so when you consider how far along it is in it's life cycle. This more than anything is going to get developers attention and be probably the most detrimental part of it's success in the next two and beyond years. If Nintendo and Sony can't get the games sold up than they are in big trouble no matter what the capabilities of their consoles are. 360 already has some really fun games and IMO the 2007 lineup so far is looking the best. 360 should have 2007 under wraps with their game line up as should the wii. Only thing with the wii is that they really need to do tremendously and get third party support otherwise they will never be first. Sony has some good franchise games coming out as well as heavenly sword, hopefully these games are good enough to sell consoles and increase game sold as I would hate to see Sony fall far behind and not participate in the next gen. Yay for competition and buying consoles for below cost. 2007 belongs to the 360 and they are already luring japanese publishers to their side, Capcom loves them and is giving more support to the 360 after Dead Rising's success. I think their presence in Japan will surge with a couple more good Japanese games and a price drop. Remember though, USA is the biggest market for video games followed by Europe. So they just need to do pretty good in Japan if they do stellar in the other two.

MarioLegend, Blue Dragon did give the Xbox a spike, but it has not been able to stay there, unlike Wii Sports and Wii Play, that have been constantly driving Wii sales for a few weeks now. Whether those games will be able to sustain this kind of sell-through in the future, remains to be seen. I don't deny that Blue Dragon has had some kind of effect on the 360 sales in Japan, but it doesn't look to have had the impact everyone was expecting before it was released.

"Thats why you make a bleeding edge system, so when the next-gen arrives, its still a viable product, and you dont have to start from scratch like MS and Nintendo."

PS2 was not bleeding-edge. Far from it. It was still made with reasonable technology.
The PS3 is bleeding-edge. Everything is brand new, unproven, top of the line, custom-made (with the exception of that graphics card.) Costly.



FranktheCrank, you're really doing a poor job proving yourself "not a fanboy." But you should wikipedia Bill Gates, see what his role in Microsoft is, and see what it will be in 12 months.

Simple case of supply and demand.

When demand is high, raise the price. For example, bundling the Xbox 360 w/ a damn T.V. so you can sell it for $4000k+, i.e. Gamestop or one of those online companies. That's why it took 6 months or so for the 360 to actually be supplied in stores.

When demand is low, lower the price. For example, bundling the PS3 with a bunch of accessories and/or games and sell it at a $20-$50 discount, i.e. Bestbuy.com? That's why I walked into both Wal-Mart and Best Buy in Indianapolis, looking for Rainbow Six Vegas, and happened to notice both had ps3's in stock.

Unlike the fanboys here that just spout out random percentages and figures and claim any number not in favor of their "company" is just bullsh1t, those examples are fact.

Xbox sold worse than the 360 in Japan, yet for some crazy ass reason, it was deemed a success, so successful they made a damn sequel, the 360. /sarcasm

If you don't live in Japan, why the hell do you stress what the Japanese buy? It obviously had no bearing for last generation consoles, it shouldn't be much different now. Hell all the ps3 fanboys say is how screwed the 360 owners are. M$ has a damn near endless supply of money to back their console. If anything, the ps3 fanboys should look out for their own consoles, w/ all the recent problems sony - the company, not just the video game segment - has had.

For Nintendo to say the Wii is not competing w/ ps3 and 360 is stupid. 1 video game console competes with all video game console. Just because hybrid cars and SUVs aren't the same damn thing, doesn't mean they aren't competing for the market share.

That's a simple cop-out, incase the Wii would have failed.

Guess I'll end my rant for now......stupid fanboys are so damn annoying, i just imagine you all look like good old Napoleon Dynamite, clutching your console in one hand and a tetherball in the other....

Okay, my pet peeve:

Main Entry: xe·no·pho·bia
Pronunciation: "ze-n&-'fO-bE-&, "zE-
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin
: fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign


The reality is that Japanese consumers buy all kinds of American products and if you ever visit there, you will find Japanese citizens who are friendly to 'foreigner', are not afraid of you, and who often like to brush up on their English with you.

It's been my experience that Japanese culture, at least until recently, is conservative and slow to change, not that the general public is xenophobic. Please understand the meaning of the word before labeling others.

"One of the things I find odd is how the most technologically superior system rarely seems to win. In fact, it's often the least powerful system that wins! For example,

Gameboys vs [place handheld here] = Gameboy wins
N64 vs PSX = PSX wins
GCN vs xbox vs PS2 = PS2 wins
DS vs PSP = DS wins"

Entirely true. It's been this way for a decade. Coincidence or not? Who knows. It's also worth looking at launch dates.


"I don't deny that Blue Dragon has had some kind of effect on the 360 sales in Japan, but it doesn't look to have had the impact everyone was expecting before it was released."

Also very true.
But Microsoft made a ding. Not a dent, but a ding. They'll keep kicking. This generation is lost for them, but if they can gain any kind of momentum it'll bode well. If some Japanese studios see how well they're doing in the rest of the world they'll release for it. If some Japanese devs release for it some Japanese gamers will buy it. If some Japanse gamers buy it more Japanese devs will release for it. If more Japanese devs release for it more Japanese gamers will buy it.

It's an upward spiral. If it goes right. Microsoft can hope for, at best, an impact over there, but not much of one. However, a small impact there and a large one in the West will be enough to guarantee victory over Sony. And it will set them up well for the Xbox 720 or whatever name they pick (I'd imagine 1080, haha, gotta keep it true-HD!)

"If you don't live in Japan, why the hell do you stress what the Japanese buy? It obviously had no bearing for last generation consoles, it shouldn't be much different now."


How can you say it had no bearing? Which console dominated? Japanese support was a huge factor in that. MGS and FF7 really pushed the PS2.

The reason why people care is that people in the US and Europe play Japanese games. They play LOTS of Japanese games. Not all, but LOTS. So Japanese devs often know money invested in the Japanese market will pay off in the US and European ones.

However, US and European games do not sell well in Japan. There are reasons for this, such as most gaming stores segregating them from Japanese games (and reasons for that, considering how poorly localized they are [and reasons for that, considering how poorly they sell]). So a US company making a game knows it needs to sell in the West.


This means Japanese games have a wider market than Western games.
If the 360 only has Western support it has no chance of selling in the East.
But if the PS3 only has Eastern support it will still sell in the West, because people will still buy it for FF and MGS.

Wow. I love coming to these video game blogs and reading a buncha introverted nerds argue amongst themselves. You fellas really crack me out.

Have any of you ever kissed a girl?

I wouldn't consider myself a fanboy, but I like Sony alot, and we have to face it Sony Tanked on the PS3. We have to look at the whole picture, from all the changes in promised features, delays, and huge shortages in supply. They will probably recover, but without losing alot of ground to Microsoft and Nintendo.

"One of the things I find odd is how the most technologically superior system rarely seems to win. In fact, it's often the least powerful system that wins!"

Its like this:

PS3 >> 360 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> XBOX > Wii > GC > PS2

See that HUGE gulf.. thats the difference here, before, the differences were negligable.

Fine, I'll take the bait. (although I don't think I'm an 'Xbot')

Firstly, winning the console war does not necessarily mean selling the most consoles. Of the three consoles, the 360 currently has the highest attachment rate. For Sony and Microsoft, their profits don't come from hardware. If Sony had an attachment rate of 1:1 (which it currently does), and Microsoft had an attachment rate of 5:1 (which I think is a close estimate), Microsoft will still be winning over sony even if twice as many PS3s were sold than 360s. However, while Sony has claimed to have shipped 2 million units, Microsoft has shipped over 10 million units. Therefore, in the eyes of game developers at least, the Xbox 360 is currently the leading console. Why does this matter? When third party developers decide to develop a HD exclusive game (or even multiplatform games), the Xbox 360 would be their platform of choice. And yes, that includes any Japanese developer that plans to sell games outside of Japan.

This is why, I think, Nintendo has become more of a competitor for Microsoft than Sony. IMHO, I don't think the two consoles are competing for the same market. The 360 is clearly a console for the hardcore gamer - this isn't bad, since hardcore gamers tend to buy more games over the life of the console than casual gamers. According the the 360's business model - where money is made only through accessories and games - they are doing very well in their chosen market. The Wii's main appeal is to casual gamers - who tend to buy less games and accessories over the life of the console than hardcore gamers. This is great for nintendo, since they are making profit on the hardware itself and don't need that many games to sell. I also think that they know that their console's life is going to be significantly shorter than that of the PS3 and the 360, and they don't care. They're still making a profit. In the end, their's clearly room for both the 360 and the Wii to succeed regardless of which one of the two ends up selling the most consoles.

Now, as for this Japan business. Yes, the 360 is not doing well in Japan. However, it's doing much better than its predecessor and I think that that's all Microsoft ever expected to happen in the first place. I don't think that Microsoft thought it was going to win this generation; considering how the first Xbox bombed, I think their best case scenario was that it would end up getting maybe 10%-15% of the Japanese market. This would guarantee a steady stream of Japanese games that would end up selling very well in other regions and lock in developer support for their next console, five years down the road.

If you ever listen to Microsoft execs talk about the Zune or the 360, you will see the fact they have 3-5 generation plans, where they plan to slowly build brand presence over several iterations of a product. I think that for them, if the 360 ends up with 30% of the market by the end of its life, it would have exceeded their expectations. In my opinion, however, I think that, at least in the US, the 360 is going to dominate the videogame market.

Scooby Doo - the people are wonderful I absolutely agree- but the fact that I have spent large amounts of time there is what convinced me of their xenophobic buying patters. Many are downright convinced (to a point of hatred) that american products are 100% inferior. Now this doesnt extend to everything but is pervasive interms of technology and large ticket items.

I love how people cite games like Final Fantasy as the titles that will save the PS3. Let's face it. Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid did not win Sony the last console war. It was games like Grand Theft Auto, which is going to be on the 360 as well as the PS3. Many more people own 360s and 360s are much cheaper, so can you honestly say that people who don't own a next-gen console will purchase a PS3 to play GTA4 when they can save $200 bucks by getting a 360?

The Japanese are not xenophobic to buying American brands. They absolutely love their iPods, their Nike shoes, and pretty much everything else that is popular here in America.

Lets put it this way, if Slashdot could be a country, it would be Japan.

Japan absolutely hates Microsoft as a company for the way they've acted in the past. They see them as a monopoly who are out to do nothing but evil. There are a lot of people this way in the world when they look at Microsoft. The only reason Microsoft is doing poorly in Japan is their self image from their past. Nintendo also used to have this problem in Japan, but as you can see times change. Eventually Microsoft will be well liked barring any self image screw ups down the road. The tables will again turn.

A few things

a) There are no "official" numbers for america. There are the numbers posted by the company... which will never be a lie, but at worst, cleverly worded to sound more impressive.. or NPD numbers which is "Data retrieved from a few retailers then guestimated across the rest". So, in effect, both cant be trusted. MS says 10.4 million SOLD, not shipped. But in a way, if the system is in a store, MS has already made their money.

b) From a consumer level, Japan is less than 20% of the total market share. US and UK are the dominant markets. The origonal Xbox sold more units then the cube, despite being an even bigger failure in Japan... what does that tell you.

c) When it comes to console sales, there is no time bigger the Holiday and/or Launch seasons. Hence why caonsoles launch durring the holidays. So the majority of consoles sales of the YEAR happened in the last 2 months.

Over this winter, I have been one of the lucky few whom have been able to actually test out all three systems (thoroughly) over the Winter Holidays. Strictly my opinion (of course) But here it goes:

1. PS3, very cool, kinda large, reminds me of the original xbox. 1080P is awesome! No software right now really blows me away, purchased a wii, found my ps3 not being played for a few days

2. Wii, If you are a casual gamer, have friends over and want to have a good time at home... This is definately the system for you. If you love the Nintendo franchises, this is definately the system for you. If you crave for games that will tide you over for a long time, and that you will have just as much fun with alone as you will with people... This system is NOT for you. I found myself playing Wii bowling only when people were over, and played Zelda, finished it, then started to browse the virtual console items, and asked myself... Why would i want to buy Nintendo and Super Nintendo games, when there are plenty of free ways to get them? On top of that, when i found out I needed to splurge another $35 on the classic controller, I thought, nah... Thats just a pure money grab. You may be paying $250 for the system, but thier accessories are priced DAMN high... $90 for another remote and nunchuck? Not to mention the margin of profit Nintendo is making from the console. All in all though.. I do have a LOT of respect for this console. It's built well, and the remote is definately very cool. But honestly, I think its all hype, no hardcore gamer will truly keep the wii as thier primary console. Don't tell me otherwise I wont believe it :)

3. Xbox 360... Suprisingly enough, I used to be a huge Sony Fanboy (well maybe not that huge) Until I found out the stuff you can do with an XBOX (ie: XBMC), all sorts of neat features, oh and I had all my "Virtual console" needs with the thanks of the Big A$$ Emulator Disk 1, 2, and 3 (A and B). I purchased an Xbox 360 on "Boxing Day" (CDN version of Black Friday) for 300 bucks. I knew the store manager so I got hooked up with a copy of Gears of War gratis :) I got home and I fired it up... I could NOT believe my eyes, what a BEAUTIFUL GAME... As looks can be deceiving, the game is damn fun too!!! But then i thought, BAH thats ONE game... What can be told with ONE game. I fired up Project Gotham Racing, blah... Racing's not my cup of tea, compared to GoW (which i should not have used to start my xbox 360 experience!!!) graphically inferior.. I'll see what Forza Motorsports looks like.
Then i fired up GRAW, awesome game... Very strategic, and not the fire fight fun of normal 3rd person (Over the shoulder) games. Nice graphics, and fun to play... I can go on and on.. I actually sold my other two systems, and with the cash I made from the PS3 and wii, I bought myself a way better investment... 40" HD TV and 5.1 speaker setup...

Honestly, i'm no fan boy of sony anymore, and i'm CERTAINLY not a M$ fanboy.. I was actually rooting for Nintendo, but facts are facts... Hardcore gamers will stick it out with the 360, for the "I'm here NOW, I've got great games to play, and say goodbye to your girlfriend :P"

Just my 10 cents... Flame away!

OK. I think m$ is gonna win by a small little margin simply because they are creating a community of XBL users like myself, they are booming with Movies on Demand (ive bought like 4 movies myself, and 2 xbla games), and soon they'll have the new tv distribution, IPTV.
just buying the box just for a tv box and a movie service is enough to get one, and just watch when halo 3 comes out, i know so many people that are holding out on the 360 just to buy halo.
but p

Wow, lots of people saying lots of stuff. my head hurts. Mostly crap, but a few people are of the opinion that XBOX360 will "win" in the U.S. without winning in Japan.

I have a question. Has this ever happened before? Has the most popular console in the U.S. (after 3+ years of being released) been a different console then the most popular in Japan? I can't think of a single case from NES up through PS2 where the popular system in Japan and the U.S. were different (after they were out of atleast a few years).

"PS3 is sold out in most big cities and cosmopolitan centers in the states. PS3 hasn't even launched in Europe"


I live in DC and I see tons of these things sitting around stores. Here is a pic to prove it.(and these are the 60 GB versions and 20GB versions!!!) And I do not own an XBOX, I am just antiFanboy... especially the fanboys who spout out lies like "PS3 is impossible to find!!" I was even surprised to see how easy it is to find a PS3 in the DC metro area.


PROOF

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/Martycota/P_00019.jpg

@64 If memory serves, I believe the Sega Genesis was the number one system in the US while getting its butt kicked by the SNES in Japan. I think this changed when sega introduced the sega CD, 32x and Saturn. Once those systems were released, the genesis lost ground to the SNES very quickly.

These comments are so funny. I love how fanboys for one system are telling fanboys of another system not to defend their console. Telling them to dismiss Japanese sales and so forth. The fact is the PS3 has been out coming on 3 months in 6 days. How on earth do you determine a systems downfall so fast. Most of the people who want one are waiting for a price drop and/or more use for the system (aka more games). AND WHY CAN'T WE TALK ABOUT THE JAPANESE SALES?!?!?? The PS3 is doing better over here then the 360 is doing over there. Now lets talk about price. I'm getting sick and tired of idiots talking about oh "The 360 s cheaper". Oh give me a break. $200?!?? That extra 200 is for the blu-ray player which is uber expensive on the market right now. I could care less who is gonna win because I like all 3 systems. I just love that people are being so hard on the PS3. All the junk M$ is spitting is just recycled stuff that they got heat for in the past. They are making comments like the PS Net sucks and since when is 600 bucks free. I hardly think 400 plus 50 is free on what took M$ ( who should've been good straight out the box since they are mainly a computer company) 4 years to develop something good. People need to understand that the ps3 is an investment. It is not a 400 toy you get your kids for x-mas. Why dose M$ and their roadies feel the need to attack SONY so much. It's because they need to make up for their shortcomings. So much for being humble.

360 is the best console for developers. Why? Attach rate. Look at the sales of Gears with only 10 million 360s out there. 2.7 million copies sold. Now look at FFXII released on a system that sold 100 million consoles. You would think FFXII would have sold 10x the amount or 27 million copies bearing the ratio of consoles in mind.

The XBox has traditionally had the highest attach rate. Don't bother telling me that the PS2 market is more saturated or that there are not enough games on MSFT's consoles. Because thats just crap. Developers know where to go to make $$$.

M$ is really starting to piss me off, you dont hear sony and nintendo making all these b!tchy comments

"I love how people cite games like Final Fantasy as the titles that will save the PS3. Let's face it. Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid did not win Sony the last console war." - Callandor

You know what I love more? The fact that even the franchises that Sony claims are coming only to the PS3 are still in jeopardy of being shared with other consoles. Let's look:

Final Fantasy - XBOX360, GC, Wii
Metal Gear Solid - XBOX, GC

Granted, there may be contracts for exclusivity to a game, not the franchise, but I wouldn't put it out of possibility that we'll be seeing MGS4 on the 360 at some time, probably not more than 6 months after the PS3 release and with more features and extras.

@ 55:

Way to go there nancy, you took what I stressed the least out of the entire argument, took it out of context, and made up some answer. No where did I mention your dragon ball Z or anime' ps2 ports that you are talking about. This is HARDWARE sales, not SOFTWARE. Obviously, Japan NOT buying the ORIGINAL xbox didn't matter. BECAUSE THEY CAME OUT WITH THE 360.

Now if you wanna talk software. There have been better games in the first year of the 360 then the entire life of the original xbox (quantity, not quality). Of course this is strictly opinion. The original had the Halos, Ninja Gaiden, KOTORs, Forza, PGR's, Morrowind, and Fable for exclusives, that was basically it. I'm sure i'm missing a couple.

Already, Gears of War, Rainbow Six, Dead Rising, Oblivion, PGR 3, Saint's Row, COD 2/3, Viva Pinata, Lost Planet tomorrow, Blue Dragon for the Japanese. Nothin else comes to the top of my head at the moment.

IF you wanna talk Japanese imports or w/e, that's your field of expertise, not mine, I don't really care for that stuff, nor do most gamers. although like beastiality, everything has it's niche' group (i kid).
If you want Japanese games that badly, import.

But jesus, next time you quote me, read the post and realize what I'm saying. I'm talkin hardware numbers. Xbox did fine w/o Japan, the 360 is doing even better w/o Japan.

does anyone care if Sony or Nintendo make more money than MS when you won't see any of that money ?? I only care about the games and the 360 has the graphical edge at this point and is more mature than PS3

Who gives a crap what games the Japanese like? Oh no, Bukkakke Zone 7 coming out on the Ps3 is going to spell doom to the 360!!!!!!! Right.....

I dont give a damn what happens in that country or what their consumers like.

I remember when "hardcore gamers" were people who just really liked playing video games.

...but in the last 3 or 4 years it seems, they've instead morphed into people who only like to play first person shooters and war sim shooters.
Death, death, death, kill, kill, kill.

Bleh. I guess I'm glad I'm no longer a "hardcore" gamer...

"I have a question. Has this ever happened before? Has the most popular console in the U.S. (after 3+ years of being released) been a different console then the most popular in Japan? I can't think of a single case from NES up through PS2 where the popular system in Japan and the U.S. were different (after they were out of atleast a few years)."

In theory no... but has any company been market leader for 3 generations in a row? Atari, 2 generations, Nintendo, 2 generations. Your argument dosen't mean the 360 will loose either. As it's still been a year since it's launch. Second... after 3 years, usually there is an established library and that carrys a console.... So what's to say that this year won't pick things up for the Xbox in both US and UK. When 80% of the market is behind the 360, japan will have to come around. Japanese devs will support the console as the install base in the bigger markets will be higher. The games that are specially for Japan will continue on that console. But US is a much more important market.

But this generation, evertyhing has changed. We have blogs like this to follow every microscopic thing every exec from either company will say... and blow it to insane proportions.. and other crap. Just remember. the Xbox 360 still has twice the install base, and it'd be stupid to assume they won't sell anything else ever. 10.4 million sold isn't something pubs can ignore.

"The PS3 is bleeding-edge. "

and like Ferrari's make a good amount of profit on each one even though many people can't afford to buy it.

oh.. they don't? they lose money? and Nintendo makes a killing while their box sells like cocaine pancakes?

hmmmmm... HHHHHMMMMMMMMMM I think Sony is busy now searching the internets for a cheat code to this Next-Gen war

I think that the Wii is supposed to be #2 on the list and PS3 #3. Threat #1 is obviously bears.

PS3 and xbox 360 gamers do you still use buttons to play video games ? hehe come on move to the next step wii.