Correcting the record on New York's proposed game laws
When the Inquirer erroneously claimed that New York was planning a "video game ban for under 30s," we just added another mark on our "wacky Inquirer story" tally sheet. When the error started spreading to sites like 1up, PlanetXbox360 and Yahoo! Tech, we figured some sort of clarification was in order.So let's be perfectly clear. Neither of the two bills currently being proposed by the New York state legislature will stop adults 18 and over from buying any video games. The confusion seems to stem from a section appearing in both New York Bill A00547 and New York Bill A02024 which says that access to a mandated "adult" video game section of stores will require customers to show ID unless the customer "reasonably appears to be at least thirty years of age."
In other words, if you look like you're under 30, they'll ask to see some ID. If the ID says you're over 18, you'll still be allowed to enter the section and buy the games. As both bills say in their texts, stores that sell or rent games "shall store and display such [violent] video games ... in a location designated for persons over the age of eighteen, in a manner which restricts access to such games."
If this system sounds familiar, it's probably because it's similar to the ID check system set up in most states to regulate tobacco and alcohol sales. Whether or not video games should be similarly classified is definitely worthy of debate (personally, we think not), but let's make sure we're arguing about the right thing here.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Mikeawesome @ Jan 21st 2007 11:48AM
I love NY, by all means, it's a great state.
However, it's our self-righteous legislature who seems to have an agenda against video games ever since Hillary jumped on board with Mr. Thompson.
I seriously hope none of these are passed, it's ridiculous to place a legal legislation on videogames, the same isn't done for movies, why should it be for Video Games? It's a simple matter of getting the stores, and parents, to enforce it.
vidGuy @ Jan 21st 2007 11:52AM
Alcohol and tobacco present a recognized threat to society. Video games do no such thing. These bills won't hold up.
Plus, the logistics of the whole thing wouldn't work. You'd need a new regulatory board to classify what level of violence in a game gets the game put in the "adult" section. Is Mario jumping on a Goomba's head violent enough, or does there have to be blood? Does it have to be "realistic" blood, or will "animated" blood classify as "adult" as well? Does there have to be a recognized weapon, such as a gun, knife, or baseball bat, or will fists count?
Then, every store would have to designate an "adult" game section. This means one of two things - these games go into the same walled-off section as adult movies in rental shops, placing these games in the same category as porn, or stores will need to build new areas to contain the games. For retail stores, the games would likely have to be put behind glass at all times.
There will need to be training systems put in place to train store managers, and thus store employees, to follow the rules and to check IDs. Finally, some policing agency will need to be set up to enforce the policy and write citations if the policy is violated.
What NY is talking about would probably cost the state tens of millions of dollars. And that'd be all for protecting minors from what? No threat has been proven.
I've played so-called "violent" or "adult" video games for nearly 20 years; my upbringing kept me from confusing reality with virtual reality. Hundreds of millions of people have the same story.
Maybe there is correlation between video game violence and real life violence. But correlation is not casuation.
saintrobyn @ Jan 21st 2007 12:25PM
I don't think this sounds similar to the tobacco/fire arms laws, it is more in line with pornography laws. Clearly having to show ID in order to gain access to a closed off room labeled "For Adults Only" is designed to shame anyone that is seen entering said room. The desired effect will be that adults will shun this section in order to not appear "deviant". It is similar to the porn section of a video store. I use to work in a video store that had a closed off porn section and the people that would go in there took great lengths not to be seen. They would make an entire trip around the store and slip in only when they thought nobody was looking. If I made eye contact with them they would make another trip around the store, even if they had their hand on the door handle leading in to the room.
A law that is clearly aimed at nothing more than making a grown adult feel immoral and deviant just because they want to play an "M" rated game makes me sick. We don't segregate "R" rated movies form the rest of the populace because they may have an adverse effect on children, why would we do that with games.
Markster @ Jan 21st 2007 12:30PM
I can't wait until they do the same with those terrible R-rated movies!
Wait-- they would never do that.
Chris @ Jan 21st 2007 12:32PM
I think these members of government need to take a sociology class.
Mario. With the way games are being treated, I can conclude a 6 year old boy will jump on a babies head after playing Super Mario Brothers, right?
A kid throwing Koopa intow lava, killing a zombie with blood is gonna make someone/ a kid kill a person right?
Wrong. They need to realize that the only study of video game effects on children have found a small raise in aggression in young children with casual play.
There's a lot of socializing agents that show a kid what's right and wrong. It's a parents job to raise their kid, and let their kid play what they want. Not the goverments.
Can you learn to steal cars from games? Well, besides that fact that every kid watched their parents turn their car on and drive(which is a tutorial they see daily), the kid that stole cars as reported in the news must have learned how to drive from video games right? Hm, well, all I can say about that is.. GTA didn't teach me how to drive for crap, I had to learn with actually sitting in a car.
What about FPS's, is that a killing simulator for the army and average gamer alike.. or is it a tool to help you have hand eye coordination and... faster reflexes? All I know is i'd have to get a real gun and be taught how to shoot.
Chris @ Jan 21st 2007 12:37PM
A few corrections above..
and let their kid play what they(the parents) want*
Can you learn to drive cars from games?
kyle @ Jan 21st 2007 12:59PM
videogames can teach the theory to some processes. Test drive taught me to keep the car between the lines, thats it, not nearly enough to be able to properly operate a vehicle. Games like black may show you in theory how to reload a weapon but reloading or discharging a magazine takes a learned skill. Since videogames have these very simple recreations of real world actions they are going to be criticized by the uniformed witch hunt politics that drive the media.
David004 @ Jan 21st 2007 1:09PM
I like the fact that they will card you for video games, but only if you are thirty. My grandfarther is 75 and got carded when he bought a bottle of wine.
David004 @ Jan 21st 2007 1:11PM
Opps...
I like the fact that they will card you for video games, but only if you look like you are under thirty. My grandfarther is 75 and got carded when he bought a bottle of wine.
Fatass of Kickassness @ Jan 21st 2007 1:32PM
People like the guy who proposed this bill have it way waaaay freaking backwards. Its truly amazing how the entertainment industry as a whole isn't being targeted... just the Video Gaming wing. And thats utter bullshit. I've seen R-Rated movies that show more acts of violence than any version of GTA I've ever played, and yet its not as 'politically incorrect' to see a 16-year-old kid walk out of Target with Goredeath 2 - Unrated Edition as it is to see a 16-year-old walk out with a copy of Halo 3!?
These people are looking for a scapegoat, a way to avoid putting blame for incidents like Columbine on the people themselves, and put it on something that people can easily find ways to criticize as a whole - and thats the gaming industry.
Its funny that so many of these people can't take the log out of their own eye before pointing out the splinter in other's eyes (OMG I quoted the bible... Joystiq Flame War COMMENCE!). Jack Thompson, for example, might seem like a good man. And I think of him as a good man sometimes. No, I'm still not happy about all of his anti-gaming stances, but he's only doing it because its what he thinks is right for our children. And while we might disagree, he's still doing it for the children.
The problem?
When the guy doesn't get his bills passed or his opinion unanimously accepted, he resorts to personal attacks and insults against the very people he says are being corrupted! Thats hypocrisy in the highest degree, and if he doesn't realize that, he really shouldn't be pointing out anyone's flaws until he remedies his own.
The thing is, people think they can just dump all the blame for big incidents on the gaming industry! Which is funny, cause a valid counterpoint has been said about a million times before, and I'm about to say it again - who's fault is it that a kid shoots up someone using influence from Doom 3 or CS?
There are 3 people at fault if something like that happens.
1. The kid. Even if the game is violent, it doesn't condone violent acts in any way and if a kid uses a game as 'practice', so to say, for a real shooting, its cause HE'S CRAZY, not the game.
2. The parents. This is the one where anti-gaming enthusiasts like Thompson clap their hands to their ears and start singing "la-la-la-I-can't-hear-you". If a 14-year-old has Doom 3... well why the hell does he have Doom 3? In this day and age, even the oldest parent knows what a rating symbol is (we've all been to the movies) and if they can't interpret a whole 2 square inches of M to be inappropriate for their kids, the box-art filled with hookers and gangsters or a suit holding a big gun should do the trick. But no, these dumbass parents let their kids come home with Grand Theft Auto and Saints Row and think, 'Hey nothing is gonna happen, my kid is mature and smart.' And then, when something DOES happen, they blame it not on their stupid decision to bring the game home in the first place... no no no no. They blame it on the games content! Which is completely stupid considering they knew about the games content before they even payed the $60 to buy it.
Last I checked, weren't cashiers required by law to tell you what a game's content is, exactly, if it adorns a mature rating? And yet you still see Ms. Soccer Mom bringing home Mega Super Shoot'em-In-The-Face 4 for their sweet little 12-year-old kid.
Get a clue!
3. Hahaha. This ones my favorite. Who else is at fault? Well, anyone who is disillusioned enough to try and BLAME videogames for their or someone else's problems!
I don't even need to go in length with this one, because the first 2, along with the rest of my comment, explain what I mean very sufficiently.
Get this though - its not JUST their fault.
Its ours.
When we see adversary, what do we do? We flame them. Which does nothing but contribute to the stereotype that gamers and the games themselves are low.
Think about that.
Earl @ Jan 21st 2007 1:32PM
Can a child still pick up a "R" rated movie off the DVD shelves?
Seems like they are trying to treat games like porn. This is insanity!
diskoboy @ Jan 21st 2007 3:21PM
Fuck all police, politicians, lawyers, and any authority figure, in general.
I'm 32. Quit telling me how I should live my life and what is and is not good for me.
otakucode @ Jan 21st 2007 3:58PM
Won't stop adults from buying games?
Real quick, how many video stores have a separate area for 18+ videos that you have to show ID to go into?
Yeah, that's how many stores will be selling M rated games if those laws pass.
metal @ Jan 21st 2007 5:07PM
Just for the record I've been playing FPS games for at least 12 years. I'm 23 now, and I just recently went to a shooting range.
I shared two boxes of ammo with my cousins.
I must have hit the target probably four times. And none were on the bullseye. Only one was anywhere near the circles, most were where a good ways off where the circle ended, and a lot didnt even hit the paper the target was printed on.
The moral of the story is that video games dont teach you jack about operating a fire arm.
Mikeawesome @ Jan 21st 2007 5:29PM
I wish I could give VidGuy some stars because this statement sums up this situation perfectly:
"
I've played so-called "violent" or "adult" video games for nearly 20 years; my upbringing kept me from confusing reality with virtual reality. Hundreds of millions of people have the same story.
Maybe there is correlation between video game violence and real life violence. But correlation is not casuation[sic]."
Zach @ Jan 21st 2007 5:32PM
So, where are all the bills to put the rated "R" films in their own section? In case these legislators hadn't realized, there is an Adults Only rating for videogames - DUH!
A Mature rating is like an "R" rating - you can't play the game until you're 17 unless you have a parent's permission; just like with the R rating, some parents enforce this and some don't. But the guy behind the ticket counter is gonna ask your age if you look too young, just as the guy in Gamestop is gonna make you show him ID and both will generally advise a parent in case they didn't realize the maturity of the content of a movie/game.
Anonymous @ Jan 21st 2007 9:13PM
This is why I hate my state. Those fucks in Albany don't know anything. I say they move the capitol down here to the city.
Unidentified creature @ Jan 21st 2007 10:31PM
I don't know the answer to this, because I never watch movies, because I'm too busy playing video games; but is there a similar system in place for x rated movies? How about "adult" magazines? Mature themed television shows? Adult books?
I think the biggest oversight is that preventing the purchase of M rated videogames for minors will NOT stop them from playing them which, from my impression, is what they're trying to prevent.
Korova @ Jan 21st 2007 10:32PM
This makes me truly angry. I am from NY and I do not look forward to have to whip out my ID for the goofs that work at GameStop, so they can study my name and address.
Its not even about that. Its the fact that you gotta "look thirty" to be treated like an adult. !!!! How about looking 18 being enough. I am not engaging in vice any more than if I rent Reservoir Dogs.
The worst part is that there actually has to be a separate section of the store. This will lead to two things: sales of these games will drop like a rock and the games that do sell will go all out and actually become as deviant as porn.
Fogies and politicos have got to chill with this video game witch hunt. Thats just irresponsible parenting plus lazy social engineering. Tomorrow, I am writing a letter to my assemblymen and senators. Yes, that means you too Hillary!
MS better put a bigger hard drive out and put a writer into the 360 because electronic distribution is the way to go if these laws go in effect. I do not feel like being humiliated every time I go into a game store.
J @ Jan 22nd 2007 11:36AM
Hey kiddies!! Anyone that needs a violent game, give me a call and for a few bucks, I'll get it sent to you. (Candy accepted)
555-244-6969
LunarDuality @ Jan 22nd 2007 12:30PM
You know the one good thing that might come out of this is the fact that retailers will then have an easy place to add AO games to their shelves: right next to the M games. As a result the AO rating will lose a little bit of the stigma and also be able to reach a wider audience. And *that* will lead to game devs actually being able to explore "adult" themes more seriously and in more depth.
Now, I'm not really excited about this law and I know that if we get some good AO games, we'll get a lot of crap ones too...but I think for games as a media to move forward it needs to push outward on all the boundaries (social, political, sexual, psychological), not just the violence one (which is the one most pushed from year to year).