Joystiq impressions: Def Jam Icon
I recently sampled Def Jam Icon in its close-to-finished state; the game will ship for the PS3 and Xbox 360 in March. The title takes a genre in which I have little personal interest -- hip-hop stars like Ludacris, Big Boi, and The Game fighting -- and focuses on the best part of that premise, the music. Each player begins a match after choosing a song for their character. As the fight progresses, the music becomes an integral part of the game, with the leading character's anthem blaring and the background objects bumping with the rhythm. With the right timing to the music, the background objects even cause extra injury.I saw a lot of potential to this approach, but Def Jam Icon is high on my skeptic sense of hit-or-miss; if the game behaves the way EA describes, it should be a fun fighter. But in my short time seeing the game, I wasn't convinced that the downbeats would match the beat-downs as EA touts, especially with user-imported music. I'll have to wait until I'm able to scrutinize the game on my own to make a fair assessment.
Def Jam Icon's look matches its over-the-top -- dare I say, campy -- premise of hip-hop stars fighting. EA demoed a run-down street with a vibe somewhere between urban and suburban. But instead of pushing complete graphic realism, the Xbox 360 churned out a stylized world around the detailed fighters; fast-moving clouds looked like a time-lapse weather pattern, and destructible background objects fragmented like glass.
The world animations matched the lead player's song fairly well. For example, at the end of every few measures, a car skidded by and a fire hydrant sprayed water; the clouds even moved with the music. The fighters hurt each other most by timing attacks to these background events that were tied to the music; one fighter threw an opponent onto the hydrant, and its spray caused extra damage. The right analog stick was even scripted to control the song -- and background objects -- as if scratching a record; flicking it could rewind the beat so players didn't have to wait around for the next hydrant cycle.
While the game will ship with a selection of music for each fighter, the title seems most interesting when it uses imported music. Songs that play on an Xbox 360 -- like MP3s from an iPod -- will automatically work in the game. (EA promised a comparable method with the PS3 but hadn't yet figured out how it would be implemented.) We began a new fight with When Doves Cry, a song with a lot of beats onto which the game could latch, and a song I wouldn't expect to play in this sort of game.
But the Prince classic didn't feel quite right, and I'm not sure why. I expect that I needed a lot more time with the game -- maybe an hour or two -- to get used to the way the backgrounds followed the beats of the song, assuming the imported track worked as advertised. So it feels way too early for me to make a final judgement about the song import system.
Def Jam Icon's mashup of music and fighting could make it appeal to a wide audience. I look forward importing many different music genres into the final version -- like jazz standards, shoegazer, or goofy power ballads -- and seeing how it fares with each style.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Earl @ Jan 23rd 2007 9:05AM
Looks like another great game from EA. *YAWN*
Who's idea was it to make this?
The1 @ Jan 23rd 2007 9:21AM
These games always sell and are fun. The author just hates HIP HOP.
Saint Vegas @ Jan 23rd 2007 9:23AM
Def Jam Fight For NY = one of the best fighting games around, and the best one to every encorperate four players.
And no, Super Smash Bros. doesn't really count. As hot as Peach is.
So, I think thats probably why. Yay for Outkast.
TrueMuse @ Jan 23rd 2007 10:01AM
I played Def Jam Icon a month ago in a focus group. I thought the gameplay completely sucked. The environments interacted way too much with the actual fighting. There were too many unnecessary explosions; one particular level was a gas station, and by the end of the fight, there were far too many things going on to really create a strategy. The explosions would really shake things up when the songs got more intense, but this sometimes translated into both characters getting hit and knocked down for no reason. Most of all, I thought the fighting was too slow. There isn't a running option, so the pace is like a turtle. There also wasn't a health bar, so you didn't know who was winning. A character would just stop getting up, and that was it. The graphics were real good though; the style is very interesting when you see the environment interact in congruence with the song title. Again, EA may have improved on the focus group build dramatically, but I thought it wasn't anything worth buying.
mystyk23 @ Jan 23rd 2007 10:08AM
I wish they would beat each other up in real life. Thug life FTL!!!
modeps @ Jan 23rd 2007 10:28AM
I am VERY wary of this title. They took the series out of the hands of Aki Corp (makers of the phenominal N64 games) and gave it to EA Chicago (makers of the fun at first but boring later Fight Night Round 3). If Aki was developing, I'd be on board no questions asked... but now I'm not really interested in anything other than the pretty visuals.
Marlos Hill @ Jan 23rd 2007 10:41AM
yeah im kinda with modeps. I honestly believe that DefJam Fight for NY was awesome, and AKI's influence was more than evident in creating such an awesome game. With that said, the new direction doesnt interest me AT ALL. I was excited when this was first announced, assuming AKI was still developing the series. Now...i dont know if im even checking for this at all.
modeps @ Jan 23rd 2007 10:56AM
#9) I'd even be happy with an Xbox Live enabled version of Fight for NY. How great would it be to play that game 4-play over Live? Now, its even rumored that this is no longer a 4 player brawler, but just one on one fighter. I can't confirm that but if they took that out... come on now EA. You're screwing the pooch.
Jigsaw @ Jan 23rd 2007 11:59AM
I don't consider the Def Jam games as serious fighting games, but FFNY was undeniably alot of fun, and was built on a surprisingly solid framework (unlike something like, say, Marvel Nemesis). I don't care much about the people in this game or their music, but based on how fun the predecessor was, I'm very much looking forward to trying this game.
sheppy @ Jan 23rd 2007 12:23PM
If the gameplay is good, I can get past the music. Period. I'm not exactly excited about being Ludicris... but hey, I played the hell out of WuTang and I hate their music too.
JohnQAnonymous @ Jan 23rd 2007 12:38PM
"The fighters hurt each other most by timing attacks to these background events that were tied to the music;"
Wouldn't you just block during those points in the music? This has to be one of the dumbest ideas ever.
If what poster #5 is saying is true, then this is just EA's version of Urban Champion, or that boring G.I. Joe game on the C-64.
KEEL @ Jan 23rd 2007 12:51PM
Def Jam NY absolutely rocked! I hate rap, but that fighting game was great!
They should've just continued down the NY path with some updated music, improved graphics and added Punk rockers to fight the rappers!
Fat Mike beating the living shit outta 50Cent!
Id pay $50 for that
Rob @ Jan 23rd 2007 1:16PM
I have no hopes for this game. They took a great franchise that was BUILT buy Aika, and basically destroyed it. Obviously in this case they went with graphics over gameplay as not even a hint of the proven gameplay from it's predecessors is found.
But it sure does look pretty.....
Rob @ Jan 23rd 2007 1:16PM
I have no hopes for this game. They took a great franchise that was BUILT buy Aika, and basically destroyed it. Obviously in this case they went with graphics over gameplay as not even a hint of the proven gameplay from it's predecessors is found.
But it sure does look pretty.....
embassy @ Jan 23rd 2007 1:18PM
i love how hiphop games get scrutinized by "hardcore" gamers yet other music genre games such as guitar hero or DDR are consider A Ok...hmmm...no bias there.
its sad too cuz the defJam games have been known for pretty solid gameplay...unlike other quick music cash-ins like bulletproof.
Daigoji Gai @ Jan 23rd 2007 1:29PM
Jigsaw right on about the Def Jam FFNY! I had a chance to interview the devs when they were doing it and some of the rappers - great group of people worked on that gem, but it is a NEW TEAM for this game.
I still have high hopes, regardless of people's musical tastes (and how some of the ignorant here use differing tastes to shout insults); but the game was solid, the fighting system was fun, and the antics of the rappers as ridiculous as their real live exploits.
Still have high hopes for this one though.
SLiFE @ Jan 23rd 2007 1:46PM
Now that Aki's not involved, perhaps they can get back to making a proper wrestling title.
HappyJack @ Jan 23rd 2007 1:54PM
Hmm...maybe your problem was that you were trying to make hip-hop icons fight to teh tender strains of 'When Doves Cry'. It's not exactly fight music, is it?
;P
aLoS @ Jan 23rd 2007 2:06PM
I hope there will be an option where you can choose between the new mode and the old one...
I dont really like the idea...sounds like flop
sheppy @ Jan 23rd 2007 2:14PM
"i love how hiphop games get scrutinized by "hardcore" gamers yet other music genre games such as guitar hero or DDR are consider A Ok...hmmm...no bias there.
its sad too cuz the defJam games have been known for pretty solid gameplay...unlike other quick music cash-ins like bulletproof."
Oh man, where the hell have you been? I mean, do you even read the topics relating to DDR and Guitar Hero? DDR gets ripped all the time, rightfully so. And Guitar Hero? Find me one fricking Guitar Hero news story on Joystiq that doesn't have people bitching about the music selection with a list of music "they would prefer!" So you're right, there is no bias here. Oh wait, this is because of a black thing, right? Damn, I pissed all over your case against racist gamers. My bad.
And actually, the original Def Jam was constantly bashed for being a plug and play effort. I even tried it once and somewhere between my characters inability to speak or the "who will be your bitch?" matches, I got turned off by the whole affair. The original Def Jam was a blemish to the culture but the second one actually stood out from the crowd of blacksplotation. So it actually got a following.
I mean, seriously. If you're gonna talk shit at least know the shit you're talking.
Rootbeer @ Jan 23rd 2007 2:36PM
"The original Def Jam was a blemish to the culture"
If you ask me, the entire series is a blemish on hip-hop culture. Beef between artists used to be settled on wax, not with physical violence, and I don't like that the design of the games celebrates the violent aspects.
Back in the day, there weren't any 8-bit fighting games where you could make Chuck D and KRS-One beat the simulated shit out of each other, were there? I wonder why not?
TrueMuse @ Jan 23rd 2007 4:43PM
I forgot to add... The build that I played indeed WAS just one on one. And also, the way the game is designed - most notably as it pertains to the camera system - the game concept seems to indicate that it's going to solely be a one-on-one game. I'm telling you, this game was not fun to play. But like I said, EA had time to change a lot of the bad, so there is still hope. But, unfortunately, a lot of the people that were in the focus group with me thought the formula was really good (morons). All they really cared about was the graphics. Most of the questions pertained to the graphics, as well. And by the way, none of us could figure out how to spin the record to reverse the song. So who knows what EA did with our information.
BlackYoshi @ Jan 23rd 2007 5:48PM
Fight for NY was pretty solid and I'm a fan of rap music, so part of me hopes for this game to be good, but it'll probably suck. If 50 Cent and the Game are in it though, it may be worth the $50 to see Game stomp the hell out of 50 Cent to "300 Bars and Runnin".
joe smith @ Jan 23rd 2007 5:50PM
hit or miss? miss. definitely.
Johnny Kielbasa @ Jan 23rd 2007 6:59PM
For anyone who equates 50 Cent with Hip-Hop...please, stop. I think there would be only five songs I like that he has, if only he weren't rapping. And I say that because I love hip-hop.
Listen to Ugly Duckling, Quannum, Handsome Boy Modeling School, Rhymefest or even Outkast before making generalizations. As a genre, hip-hop is as large as rock and jazz. Lots to like and dislike.
embassy @ Jan 23rd 2007 7:48PM
sheppy,
by drowning in your own self-righteousness u totally missed my point..
its not a "black" thing its a cultural thing..and my point is GH and DDR are MORE welcomed/accepted than ANY hiphop game...and thats before people even PLAY them..its just a double standard and its plain as day..u can be oblivious to it all u want but its there...and to some degree rightfully so cuz most games based on some cultural trend tend to suck...but look at a game like Marc Ecko that flew under everyones radar simply because of its cultural context, GH, at least in my experience...did not have that problem...
Sol Munition @ Jan 23rd 2007 7:49PM
I've seen a few movies of how the music interacts with the fighters and the level, and it really seems as thought the only options you have are to block, or duck and block.,.,which breaks up the flow of combat. I have o agree looks like the went for flash over substance(it is EA, so that's a given). FFNY was the best one in the series, I would have hoped they would have stuck to that
Well know how good/bad it plays in March
sheppy @ Jan 23rd 2007 9:50PM
Embassy, hate to break it to you again, but do some goddam research before you talk shit.
1. Marc Ecko's Getting Up was critically and financially received poorly not because of the lack of uniqueness to the culture and consumers ability to accept and relate, but rather because it was a piss poor excuse for a game. It had several inherent flaws. Like, how come, in a game that's all about making a mark and spraying graffiti to represent yourself, there was no graffiti editor? And before you make up an excuse about how hard such a thing is, Jet Set Radio (an infinately better graf artist game) on Sega Dreamcast had this feature. Hell, several N64 and PSX games featured emblem editors. To not include it in a graffiti game is pure laziness (Incidently, I own this game). Second, the platforming elements were rather contrived and seemed more like a broken POP game rather than it's own entity. And finally, the fighting system itself was broken. But let's pretend for a moment that it was because of a cultural thing. You can't exactly create a game based on an underground culture and expect people outside of that culture to give a shit about the game.
2. DDR had a huge problem breaking into the business here in the states. In fact, it got it's start at anime conventions as those kids are nuts for anything made in the land of the polka-dot flag. From there, it spread into arcade until Konami finally caved and gave it to the US market a full 5 years after it's Japanese debut... to poor sales. So they tried again with Konamix while the push for arcade machines grew steadily... and it got poor sales. Finally, by the third try, DDR Max on PS2, it finally started getting some decent sales and took off from there. But if you think it was culturally accepted, bubba, you don't know shit. DDR faced a long hard road uphill. A road that, despite many other companies attempts in the ways of Taiko Drummaster, Donkey Konga, Beatmania, Samba De Amigo, and others, could not overcome. So once again, you assume it had an easier road just because it wasn't hip hop but I tell you this, you don't know shit.
3. Guitar Hero was another suprise and, quite frankly, shocked the hell out of Harmonix. They had a past of a fairly niche following to their games in the past. Things like Frequency and Amplitude had a hardcore following, but nothing even remotely close to mainstream. Likewise, Konami had test marketed Guitar Freaks in many areas here in the US in the past and it just wouldn't work. When Best Buys all over the nation finally got their units, the initial reaction was "you look like a dumbass with that plastic guitar." In fact, that was a not uncommon reaction for about a week but suddenly critics started raving, word of mouth spread, and people had the controllers in their hands instead of in some mysterious "this is how you play" plastic wrapped box. What happened next was so utterly suprising that Red Octance had issues manufacturing the controllers fast enough to meet demand. Culture had nothing to do with it. The fact that people were willing to forget how silly they looked while playing the game to have some fun reflects directly on Wii. And once again, it wasn't a fucking culture thing but a fun game.
But here's one for you. Why isn't Beatmania a big deal over here? It debuted less than a year ago on PS2 and where is it now? A phenominal DJing game of epic proportions that sold piss poor. All us whities love techno and hiphop, why didn't it do well? Why couldn't I buy a second controller and end up having to buy a second copy of the game? Nothing upsets me more than looking at my four Japanese mixes (Original for PSX, 10th mix, 11XD Red, and Happy Sky) of Beatmania versus my one US and realizing, like Taiko Drummaster and Samba De Amigo beforehand, this series will never make another attempt in the US again.
But do you know why it wasn't a culture thing? BECAUSE HIP HOP IS THE NUMBER FUCKING ONE MUSIC STYLE IN THE GODDAM WORLD. Beats rock, definately beats techno, even if it directly steals from it, and the culture is so drastically emulated all over the planet that they even made a hip hop samurai anime before even Afro Samurai was heard of. The thug lifestyle, iconic nature, and music is by far and away the surest bank anyone could put to a game but right there is the problem. HIP HOP GAMES FUCKING SUCK. Not because it's hip hop, but because it spends so much time trying to capitalize on the culture instead of making an actual game.
I promise you, if one game company came out, built up a great game around the hip hop culture because they wanted to, because they had a fucking passion for the culture, and put in the same love that other runaway games received, I promise you that game would NOT fail. The only problem is, nobody is willing to do that. Everyone applies hip hop to existed genres instead of trying to make a game around hip hop. I would love to see a game where you play an up and coming hip hop artist, have to go to concerts and rhymn along with the beats (something so few hip hop artists can accomplish anyway), and ultimately try to promote yourself and your label to superstardom. But it won't happen. Because everyone else is making hiphop games based on fucking double dragon, gta, or wrestlemania.
Until hip hop games get past their "me too" period, don't expect them to do well.
GameUp @ Jan 31st 2007 1:10PM
I don't care what anybody says! This game is gonna be crazy! Def Jam's Vendetta & Fight for NY both were hot as hell! I had to pre-ordered my Def Jam: ICON.
ZaxCG2 @ Feb 11th 2007 9:56PM
I blew off the Def Jam series at first. I didn't like rap artists (though I do enjoy the ones who don't talk about just sex and booty). I didn't think this game would be of high caliber- it would just sell because of the fans of the rappers. But this game is different.
Its taken a great direction in making it one of the most unique fighters next to Smash Brothers. I definitely see it as being a success, especially with those amazing visuals.