PS3 firmware version 1.5 (almost) ready for download
by Jonti Davies 
{ Jan 23rd 2007 at 5:45AM }
Owners of 720p LCDs, look away... now. Sony Japan has outlined details of its next PS3 firmware update, due tomorrow, but there's no mention of 720p Blu-Ray playback. So yes, as expected, unless you own a 1080p display you'll still have no choice but to watch BD movies in 1080i. (You should see us all scowling, Sony.)The good news about 1.5 is that Japan's cell phone wallet system (Edy) will become useable as a PlayStation Store payment method; a new audio option will enable the volume of user interface sounds to be changed; and you'll be able to use your own photo as your system user icon. Oh, and you'll be able to get Korean input from a USB keyboard -- we almost forget to mention that!
For the Blu-Ray 720p fix, though, please don't hold your breath -- your face could turn a dangerous shade of mauve.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
JET @ Jan 23rd 2007 6:23AM
You guys should really buy a new TV. The lack of a scaler in PS3 is an absolutely non-issue. If a movie supports only 480i/p and 1080p and you have a 720p TV, you'll see the 480p stream. Either a) buy movies that support multiple resolutions (some high def disks support 720p and 1080i) or b) buy a current television. It is worth the money.
Otherwise, stick with 360 and enjoy your interpolated, scaled, distorted view of what True HD is supposed to look like.
I'd much rather Sony move forward with PS3 rather than set the Way Back Machine for 2002.
JET
Randolph @ Jan 23rd 2007 6:33AM
I love it when Sony-bots make excuses for the lack of a scaler chip Xbox 360 made a standard in 2005. It's not even an expensive chip. But yeah, blame the consumer and make them buy new HDTVs. Now THAT is a winning formula! God, no wonder the 360 and Wii are mudstomping the PS3. they actually treat consumers with respect, and cater to everyone, not just elitist pricks with money to burn like the first commenter. Newsflash "JET" the people you say should just buy new HDTVs are the people who will make or break your precious PS3. Right now, it's leaning towards break, so enjoy your 599 US dollar paperweight.
Jurgen @ Jan 23rd 2007 3:47PM
@Randolph
Since you're talking about bricks, remind me who had a class action suit against them for the fall 2006 update?
theGreenGrunt @ Jan 23rd 2007 6:51AM
Randolph wins the thread.
Jet you need to keep drinking the kool aid to survive this one.
Gamer G @ Jan 23rd 2007 6:56AM
What planet are you on JET?? You dont really believe all that sony true HD do you? if a game is made in 720p or even 1080p on the 360 then the 360 can out put that with no scalling, but if a persons tv cant handle that particular resolution the scaller kicks in so those guys dont miss out! It might not be as good as having a tv that handles the output of the game/movie but its more than adequate! With Sony's $200 more machine you dont get this, even though the chip is in most $100 dvd players these days!
Can you not be at least a wee bit rational in your arguments?
Rob Holiday @ Jan 23rd 2007 6:57AM
I have a HDTV that only accepts 480P or 1080i over component or VGA. I have both the Xbox 360 and a PS3. On the 360 I can enjoy a game upscaled to 1080i, which looks beautiful on a 60" screen, but the PS3 downscales to 480P and looks like crap! The PS3 may be "future-proof", but what about "today-proof"? If Sony wanted to make a console that will be relivant "tommorow", they should have released it "tommorow", not today!. From what I've heard, Sony will not be able to fix this with a software upgrade.
As far as buying a new TV, I'm already an early adopter of HD and look what it got me. I am going to wait till all of this LCD, Plazma and DLP stuff is straightned out, and the cost of a 1080p set comes down.
JET @ Jan 23rd 2007 7:01AM
Wow, I'm an "elitist prick" because I have a PS3 and a 1080p TV? Good morning to you too, Randy.
I have a PS3 and a 1080p TV because I want to watch games and movies in the absolute highest quality possible. XBox 360 has an HD-DVD add-on drive, but it is crippled to 1080i because of the lack of an HDMI out. The lack of an HDMI out also means I can't play back Dolby Digital TrueHD (which PS3 supports right now) or DTS HD Master Audio (which PS3 will support in March). And the 360's jet-engine loud fan ruins the quieter parts of movies.
So thanks, I will enjoy my $599 "paperweight" that looks and sounds incredible. I suppose a lot of people will, since PS3 sold more systems this Christmas than 360 did last Christmas (687,000 vs 607,000). That's a lot of elitist pricks.
JET
Antec @ Jan 23rd 2007 7:05AM
All I'm reading is a bunch of moaning with these comments. Why don't you just play your respective systems instead of bashing the ones you don't have? Jesus.
Anyways, i heard elsewhere there would be a backwards compatibility update coming with 1.5 as well. ::crosses fingers::
Randolph @ Jan 23rd 2007 7:11AM
No, you're an elitist prick because you expect absolutely anyone to be able to just go and plunk down the cash for the exact same tube and stop "whining". Consumers in certain situations have two choices. Buy a PS3 and a new HDTV. Buy a 360 and or Wii and keep using the current one. Based off holiday sales numbers, I'd say they picked the latter. You keep clinging to how the 360 sold last year, I'm looking at how it sold this year. You talk about not living in the past, then have to go into the past on sales to make PS3 look good.
Enjoy continuing to vainly have your cake and eat it too. An elitist prick AND a hypocrite, typical fanboy.
Pulse @ Jan 23rd 2007 7:17AM
Couldn't agree more Antec, if you can't afford PS3 buy Wii or 360 no biggie, why the moaning?
There are still some updates I am waiting to see. I Don't care about HD or shiny graphics and think those that do are either idiots or have lost the true meaning of fun for the brainwashed image that is graphics.
ss @ Jan 23rd 2007 7:15AM
No Jet, you're an elitist prick for saying that people should buy 1080p HDTV's or STFU.
So that makes you an ass.
fawazr @ Jan 23rd 2007 7:21AM
JET, insisting that consumers accommodate Sony's lack of a near-ubiquitous chip by running out and buying another $2,000 set really is the height of arrogance. I appreciate your zeal for your new toy, and I also appreciate your desire to justify your massive expenditure of disposable income, but that is elitism. And companies, in fact, don't dominate markets on how well they manage to exclude prospective consumers. At best, this will establish Sony as a provider of niche toys for technophiles. Just a thought.
Dave @ Jan 23rd 2007 7:23AM
This update sounds great for Korean speaking users living in Japan.
Fatass of Kickassness @ Jan 23rd 2007 7:26AM
JET, get off your high horse, man. People like you - that is, fanbots - are the ONLY ones who are going to push down $2,500 just because your TV doesn't have the proper resolution that you want your god to play at. And trying to pin the blame on us for not having a 'proper' TV set instead of blaming it on Sony for not including the chip... well, I already said you're a fanbot.
JET @ Jan 23rd 2007 7:33AM
Mmmmm...cake. And Kool-Aid! Is it somebody's birthday?
"Consumers in certain situations have two choices. Buy a PS3 and a new HDTV. Buy a 360 and or Wii and keep using the current one."
Exactly! You don't have to own a PS3. PS3 is a high-end system and is priced accordingly. If you don't have the ability to use it, don't buy it. There is lo-def option (Wii) and a medium-def option (360) available to you if you have old equipment. Once you upgrade that equipment, you'll be ready to upgrade to PS3.
But seriously, get real, comparing launch numbers to 2nd year numbers is silly. Of course 360 sold well this Christmas - it had 13 months of games behind it. PS3's launch lineup was fairly crap, but, just like 360, good games will be launching for it all year.
And that's the thing: I own all three systems and like them all. I play Smackdown for 360 more than anything else (so if you want to settle this in the ring, Just Bring It!), and the last game I bought was WarioWare: Smooth Moves. I just wish 360 offered better HD support and Wii offered any HD support at all. Zelda would be a lot more fun if it didn't hurt my eyes.
JET
Randolph @ Jan 23rd 2007 7:33AM
Yes Pulse, people who appreciate things you don't are idiots. That view is going to get you REAL far in life, jackass,
Dedicated Hosting @ Jan 23rd 2007 12:39PM
Sony innovation are simple marvellous, their creation have marked a revolution
Jeff P @ Jan 23rd 2007 8:04AM
I guess everyone knows now why sony pushed 1080p so hard...
Kevin @ Jan 23rd 2007 8:08AM
I'm confused... I'm buying a Samsung plasma this week that is 720p native, but supports 1080i as well. What rez will I get with a blu-ray movie??? Will it get 1080i or will it shove me into 480p??
odium @ Jan 23rd 2007 8:15AM
lol, the 360 is a medium def option now is it? Why? I seem to be watching my 1080p HD movies just fine on mine? I seem to remember watching Serenity at 1080p last night and it was not only sexy as sin, but also.... it was perfectly fine?
The clear winner this generation will be 720p. That’s the sweet spot for "gaming". For HD video, its 1080p. But the 360 does both of those. You can go on and on about "true HD" but what you don’t seem to grasp (Along with most Sony idiots) is that when you up the resolution (Because that’s all HD is, a resolution upgrade), you sacrifice performance. And when you sacrifice performance, you need to get that back from OTHER areas. So in other words, games running at 720i/p will not only LOOK sexier but also RUN better. Sure, the resolution wont be as sharp as 1080i/p, but lets face it, unless you bought yourself a massive TV over 32 inches, you wont be seeing that extra "True HD" anyway... So yeah, 720i/p is the ideal HD area to be aiming for this generation. Some games, such as fighters and racers, are in closed off environments with very little to no exploration or free roaming, and thus can be scaled to work at a higher resolution. Some games, such as platform games, or first person shooters, must use different tricks to get finer performance out of the engine (Which is why games like VF5 and GT look better than say, Resistance). That’s why games like that can run in 1080i/p that bit better. That’s just the way things work.
Trust me. I'm working on my own engine right now. 720i/p is the ideal area to be aiming for if you want a nice "looking" game. Other wise you end up with a game like Resistance, that, to be fair, looks really, really poor in visuals... Even if it does run at 1080i/p.
In other words, JET, please be a dear and shut your sony filled cake hole, aye?
Oh and before anybody says that always funny statement about Blu-Ray being needed for HD (Because it always, ALWAYS seems to crop up...) Disk storage has NOTHING, I repeat, JACK SH*T to do with what resolution the game runs at. Disk storage is used for media and audio, as well as core files for a game. DATA, in other words. Resolution has nothing to do with disk space.
Thank you, and good night.
JET IS A LOSER @ Jan 23rd 2007 8:25AM
Jet You are a Moron. Why don't you get a Life & get off Sony's D***.
Sony NEEDS To Fix 720p Problem NOW! Not Everyone went out & bought A Brand New HDTV Set, This past X-mas. So for the Majority of people w/ HDTV Sets already the Native Resolution is 720p/1080i. These Sets are relatively new. As the issues roll in w/ Sony. This is a BAD Move On Sony's part & should NOT Of shipped this way!!!
I'll Stick with a REAL GAMING MACHINE!!! *X360*
& Not a something thrown together just to compete!!!
Intentless @ Jan 23rd 2007 8:31AM
Seriously... I can barely afford the PS3 and I just splurged and got HD... Now apparently its not gonna be worth it... WTF... Yay for my 360 giving me the ability to go the the res that I want.
dropout @ Jan 23rd 2007 8:56AM
Hey what firmware version do you guys think the European PS3 will launch with? And is it hard to upgrade the Firmware or sneezy easy?
porkepik @ Jan 23rd 2007 3:55PM
Hey everyone, my ps3 display without any problem HD (1080i) BR movies on my 720p set (my set is scaling the 1080i) as about any set will be doing. Every BR can display in 1080i and every 720p/1080i tv set will be displaying teh picture in HD if you set the PS3 with the 1080i-720p-480p option. Games will be in 720p if there is no 1080i option in the game. The only problem is if you want your game in 720p and the game also support 1080i you will have to remove the 1080i check mark in supported resolution.
The PS3 by default tries these resolution in order
1080p-1080i-720p-480p. BR will try 1080p-1080i-480p if you let the 1080i checked it will display HD on your TV(if it supports it be it a 720p or 1080i display, the TV will scael the image accrodingly), if you do not check it it will only display 480p as there are no 720p option in any blu-ray
Fred T @ Jan 23rd 2007 8:47AM
If you have a 720p only TV, you will not see much benefit going from DVD to BD. Stick with DVD or get a better job and buy a 1080p set like everyone who isnt poor.
Thomas @ Jan 23rd 2007 11:43AM
xbox has a scaler chip... but you the consumer have to pay an extra 200 for the drive... anyway blue ray products should be coded for 720 - 1080p
James K. @ Jan 23rd 2007 8:49AM
I admit it, I live in the boonies. This past Christmas, the majority of ads for local electronics stores promised hidef tvs. What res? 720p. There weren't a lot of ads for anything other than that and I'm betting those (at least in my area) who bought, bought hidef in 720p and didn't even know there was anything higher.
Now you buy the PS3 on top of that and the games don't look as good as the same games playing on the same tv on a 360? Do you blame the res? No. If you don't know jack about hidef, you blame the game system for sucking. You then tell everyone that you bought a ps3 and it sucks on your brand new hidef TV and not to buy it.
The answer to the problem isn't "move out of the boonies" and "buy a new tv", that's not realistic, the answer is and *should* be "Sony, fix the problem, shut people up and move forward with your plans for the system."
That's the only answer that's going to solve the problem.
k9
PS3 Seriously Hurting @ Jan 23rd 2007 8:52AM
Hey JET, I'm not sure if you're just here to piss off the kiddies or not, but its entertaining none the less..
Anyways, some of us can afford the PS3 (dozens if I want to)... Between wifee's income and mine, lets just say I've spent 20,000 on remote control cars in 6 months time and it barely made a dent.... (1/8 scale, 1/4 scale FG racer and buggy, Tmaxx, Emaxx etc etc)... However, I CHOOSE NOT TO BUY anymore SONY products... After the DRM issue.. Hell, I could even forgive that, but their attitude of 'Most people dont even know what it is, so why should they care' is just F'n mind blowing...
The point is Sony is trying to BONE everyone in the Azz... Plain and simple.... Hell, I've got a 65" SONY projection tv that does 720p and 1080i... Does that mean I'm going to run out and get a new 1080p tv just to play 1 or 2 games that 'may' (very LARGE word there) be PS3 exclusive?
Just remember, karma my little friend... Sony will not be 1st this go round.. Too expensive.. Most games will be out on 360 first or at least also...
Sony trying to get everyone on the blu-ray kick, and leaving out the scaler so alot of pawns will go buy a new 1080p tv as well... Funny thing is when I do eventually buy another large tv (looking at Samsung 72" DLP - no burn in) it WONT be a sony...LOL...
Play nice kiddies...
JET @ Jan 23rd 2007 8:54AM
Sorry Odius, I can't shut up when you're trawling the Microsoft line. Since when is 1 megapixel better than 2? 720 isn't the sweet spot for anything but an underpowered console.
You've done a great job in regurgitating almost every incorrect thing Microsoft has been saying for the past year. Have you even seen a game running in 1080p? Because NBA 2K7 on PS3 looks amazing - much better than the 360 version. You don't have to sacrifice performance for resolution.
But a game running in 1080p isn't necessarily a good game (see Marvel: Ultimate Alliance) any more than a game running in 720p is necessarily a bad game (Resistance, despite what you might think, runs at 720p). Resolution, in games anyway, does not equal quality.
It is kind of interesting that you say you watched Serenity in 1080p. Not on 360 you didn't. By Microsoft's own admission, the HD-DVD drive is limited to 1080i due to the lack of an HDMI cable. That 1080p you *think* you're seeing is everybody's favorite 360 scaler at work.
You're right, you don't need Blu-Ray for HD...as long as your definition of HD is limited to graphics. High -res audio tracks like DD TrueHD and DTS HDMA run at bitrates as high as 23 Mbps and can fill more than a dual-layer DVD's worth of data alone. Resistance features a 7.1 uncompressed 7.1 PCM surround soundtrack, something that's not even possible on 360.
My point remains that PS3 is truly a next-gen system. I would far rather Sony work on making sure DTS HDMA is included in the March firmware update or getting the much heralded HD EyeToy to market rather than enabling support for old TVs. The number of TVs in the wild that can't upconvert 720p to 1080i should be very, very small. It is not an issue, certainly not one worth spending valuable development time trying to solve.
JET
rarsi123 @ Jan 23rd 2007 2:35PM
I am looking to get a 720 HDTV in the next six months. Will there be an eventual fix for this? Even if I wanted 1080p HDTV, I dont think any are available at the moment in the UK, or are about £2000 (approx $3800). If there is no fix I am going to be forced down the 360 route
evilplushie @ Jan 23rd 2007 9:21AM
Man...reading the comments on this thread gives me new insight to why so many americans have overcharged credit card bills and usually can't afford them....
especially if they just buy 2,000 HD TVs just to match their other new expensive accessories....
DBX00 @ Jan 23rd 2007 9:11AM
Can you guys just stick to the point of the announcement, which is that they are releasing a new firmware update tomorrow with some additional features. I don't know how Joystiq can start their blurb about a new firmware with what isn't included and end it on the same note. You could make the point that the XBOX360 doesn't have a real internet browser after every firmware update. Regardless, the PS3 doesn't have a scaler at the moment and that is something they are probably working on for the future. However, if the software and movies support multiple resolutions, you wouldn't need a scaler which is probably what they went into building the system to accomplish. You push developers to move to 1080p by creating a gap between that and 720p/1080i. A scaler would decrease (not eliminate) the gap or need to push the system. This is the difference between Sony and Microsoft; Sony is trying to push developers to use 1080p b/c that's where the Blu Ray medium really has the advantage. Microsoft doesn't want to move to that arena because you start having games come on 3 DVDs such as Blue Dragon...
aka Bitter @ Jan 23rd 2007 10:29AM
@Kevin:
Blu-ray movies will play at 1080i. During the set-up process, make sure 1080i is listed as a supported resolution on the console, otherwise you will get 480p.
The only issue is that the system defaults everything to the highest resolution available. Dashboard resolution is now 1080i making the text in the store and web browser so tiny as to be absurd. You can switch resoltuions back and forth when you want to watch a movie, but that is an inconvenience. =(
To the issue at hand:
- The PS3 is designed to run at 1080p to: sell more Sony TV's
- The vast majority of HD sets available now are 720p native(well 768p native). The number of 1080p sets that are even available to purchase is miniscule.
- Sony's own standalone Blu-Ray player, the BDP-S1 outputs at 720p
- JET, please tell us why Sony's standalone player supports 720p output and the PS3 does not, because I'd love to hear the explanation.
Bitter
odium @ Jan 23rd 2007 9:15AM
"Sorry Odius, I can't shut up when you're trawling the Microsoft line. Since when is 1 megapixel better than 2? 720 isn't the sweet spot for anything but an underpowered console."
1 mega pixel isn't better than two. But your missing the point, again. 1080p is indeed good, but its not needed, and if your TV doesn't support it, who cares? And how is the 360 underpowered exactly? It beats the PS3 is terms of raw graphical power, where as the PS3 beats it in CPU. In short, they are pretty much equal at this stage in time.
"You've done a great job in regurgitating almost every incorrect thing Microsoft has been saying for the past year. Have you even seen a game running in 1080p? Because NBA 2K7 on PS3 looks amazing - much better than the 360 version. You don't have to sacrifice performance for resolution."
NBA 2k7 was bought out later on the PS3. Same with Fight Night. They have had longer to work on it, get it nicer looking etc. THATS Why. And yeah, I have a 1080p TV, so yeah, I have played it in 1080p. You DO have to sacrifice performance for resolution, that’s the way things work. The more pixel space is drawn, the higher fill rate consumption and the lower performance gets. You need to get that performance back where possible, thus, lowering detail in other areas. I know, I've had to do it myself, so has my team.
"But a game running in 1080p isn't necessarily a good game (see Marvel: Ultimate Alliance) any more than a game running in 720p is necessarily a bad game (Resistance, despite what you might think, runs at 720p). Resolution, in games anyway, does not equal quality."
Resolution doesn't, your quite right.
"It is kind of interesting that you say you watched Serenity in 1080p. Not on 360 you didn't. By Microsoft's own admission, the HD-DVD drive is limited to 1080i due to the lack of an HDMI cable. That 1080p you *think* you're seeing is everybody's favorite 360 scaler at work."
I ran it in 1080p. It was in 1920 x 1080 in progressive. That’s 1080p. The difference between 1080i and 1080p DETAIL wise is nothing. NOTHING. The difference is interlaced Vs. progressive scan. In other words, you cant "upscale" to the EXACT same resolution. I would really research this a little bit more before taking the higher ground with me sunshine. I was watching a film in 1920 x 1080 in progressive scan. Thats 1080p. It doesn't work on all TV's and with certain cables it can be fussy, sure. But it works. Fact.
"You're right, you don't need Blu-Ray for HD...as long as your definition of HD is limited to graphics. High -res audio tracks like DD TrueHD and DTS HDMA run at bitrates as high as 23 Mbps and can fill more than a dual-layer DVD's worth of data alone. Resistance features a 7.1 uncompressed 7.1 PCM surround soundtrack, something that's not even possible on 360."
This discussion isn't about audio or Blu-Ray. Its about HD resolutions, and the 360 vs PS3. I could fill 80 Blu-Ray disks with pictures of George Bush that wouldn't fit on a single DVD-9. That’s not for here though, is it.
"My point remains that PS3 is truly a next-gen system. I would far rather Sony work on making sure DTS HDMA is included in the March firmware update or getting the much heralded HD EyeToy to market rather than enabling support for old TVs. The number of TVs in the wild that can't upconvert 720p to 1080i should be very, very small. It is not an issue, certainly not one worth spending valuable development time trying to solve.
JET"
Once again, WHAT? The 360 is a next gen system. In fact, its more next gen that Sony's in some regards. Just because Sonys launched with 1080p out of the box, doesn't make it any more next gen than the 360. In fact the Wii is a next gen machine too. Graphics and raw horse power don’t make a machine "next gen". Its what’s added to the system. I suppose your one of these people that sees the 360 as just an upgraded xbox as well are you? Your just a classic Sony fanboy. The PS3 rules. All else sucks. Anybody who disagrees is a moron, right?
Well, lets put it this way... Who outsold the PS3 this xmas? Who has the better online (Which by the way, is what this "next gen" is all about this time). Oh, and who is the one who just launched a system thats "the only next gen, 4d machine", but cant shift consoles off of shelves because they dug a hole so deep they cant get out...?
Answers on a postcard, asshat.
byrd @ Jan 23rd 2007 9:16AM
hrm...
I've had my ps3 about a month now. I love it. I don't have an xbox 360, so I can't really compare.
... but I will say that I just got my b-day gift, a 1080p LCD, and it's so nice that wouldn't go back to 720p/1080i. It's not like it was bad on the 720p/1080i. Not at all. It's just flat-out amazing in 1080p. Motostorm is incredible. Movies are great, too. Maybe it's psychosomatic. I don't care cuz it'd made me REALLY frickin happy.
The system will be around for a while. You have plenty of time to upgrade. There's not harm in waiting it out until you can save up the cash.
erac3rx @ Jan 23rd 2007 9:31AM
I see why you guys get a bit frustrated with people like JET. Sony does need to properly resolve the 720p issue, but 1080i is not the end of the world for those who have equipment that doesn't support 1080p. You aren't forced to 480p anymore if you've got 1080i not now that the firmware has been updated.
There is also a very simple solution already (get a 1080p tv) and sure, that seems a little crazy. More crazy than people buying an HDTV last year to get their 360 to look nice? More crazy than re-buying a 360 to get HDMI output and possibly a built in HD-DVD drive? Things change, that's life. If you think a TV you bought in 2005 will last you for the rest of your life, fine... but be prepared to deal with some limitations. You can get a 1080p 37" LCD for under a grand, in 6 months you'll be able to get that for $5-600...
One thing to point out, it's not that hard to get a 1080p set. I bought my 42" 1080p LCD almost an entire _year_ ago. This is not bleeding edge technology.
Yes the big box stores are screwing people by pushing 720p until after the super bowl, but that's what the name brands are pushing right now. They need to get them sold. Do you actually think all of the new models they release in March and April will still be 720p when blu-ray and hd-dvd are 1080? Do you want to watch either of those in 1080i or 720p? Nope, not if you've got 1080p.
Another point, nearly all of us that have a PS3 have a 360. Most PS3 owners aren't fanboys, we were right there at 360 launch too. $400 for a 360 ain't cheap and after the required $50 Live fee it ain't much cheaper than a PS3. And if we've got both systems, both capable of 1080p output, do you think it's worth buying a 1080p tv? Of course.
The cost of entry isn't the issue, it's the games. For now 360 certainly is the best option if you only want to buy one system. By Christmas? Well it depends on what you want it for. MGS and BluRay? or Halo 3? Pick whatever one you want, and use whatever TV you want. They're both just platforms, you get out of them what you put in.
Evan @ Jan 23rd 2007 9:17AM
@JET "Since when is 1 megapixel better than 2?"
The GPU's shaders can perform a limited number of operations per second. 1080P has TWICE as many pixels to render compared to 720P, which means 1080P has HALF as many shader operations per pixel! A GPU might have the power to render a scene at 720P with fog, smoke, bloom, and water ripples; but give the same GPU the same scene at 1080P and it might only have the power-per-pixel to render two of the four effects.
PC gamers know this. PC games can be configured, and a PC gamer could choose to turn all the effects off and details to low in order to render at maximum resolution (resulting in a sharp but plain looking image) or turn all the effects on and details to high but render at a more moderate resolution (resulting in a more realistic but lower resolution image).
Andrew @ Jan 23rd 2007 9:27AM
Jet, you really are a prick. Let me say this to start, I own a 1080p set, a 360 and a Wii. Insinuating that you need to purchase a $2000+ TV to use a console is being an elitist prick. So only people with the means to buy a 1080p set should be allowed to purchase a PS3? No wonder you can find these things laying around in stores everywhere.
As for the 360 being "medium-def," I'm pretty sure that mine's putting out 1080p just fine through the component inputs, something Sony Tv's can't do. And my HDMI inputs are being used by my DirecTV and 1080p upscaling DVD player.
jayntampa @ Jan 23rd 2007 9:42AM
I have a 720p DLP TV that gives me a great picture with my 360 HD-DVD drive ... and games. The reason I haven't bought a PS3 is because I'm not going to pay $600 for a system that can output only at 480 ... and, for me, that's what it would be doing. So, they lost a sale, end of story. Basically, I'd be paying all that money for a Blu-ray player that's outputting at DVD levels. Ummm ... no thanks.
Ryan Smith @ Jan 23rd 2007 5:31PM
Jet, you really need to go over and talk about this at AVSForum so everyone could laugh at your stupidity. There are so many more important things than resolution like contrast ratio and color. I bet anyone who takes a look at my 720p DLP projector would think the picture is "higher res" that most any 1080p LCD. An LCD's refresh rate is too slow to really display 1080p anyway. Also, for movies, 1080i and 1080p are exactly the same thing! Movies run at 24fps, a 60fps 1080i has the same amount of data as a 30fps 1080p. 1080p is all marketing for movies, nothing else. A good 720p display will beat the picture of a cheap 1080p no question.
The real point of this conversation should be the fact that most any new set has a built in scaler, I can input 1080p into my 720p projector, and it scales it accordingly. So the PS3 is not really an issue for newer displays, 1080p native or not.
nick @ Jan 23rd 2007 9:36PM
So if I buy a brand new 32" LCD TV (including from Sony), which are all limited to 720p, I can only get 480p from the PS3 if I use Blu-Ray? That's CRAP! Not everyone can put a 42" or bigger TV in their room with a PS3.
To me, that's a huge issue.
Raistlin @ Jan 23rd 2007 9:58AM
Odium said:
"NBA 2k7 was bought out later on the PS3. Same with Fight Night. They have had longer to work on it, get it nicer looking etc. THATS Why."
I love how MS fanboi's twist things and use arguments when they need them.
"I ran it in 1080p. It was in 1920 x 1080 in progressive. That’s 1080p. The difference between 1080i and 1080p DETAIL wise is nothing. NOTHING. The difference is interlaced Vs. progressive scan. In other words, you cant "upscale" to the EXACT same resolution."
If it doesn't matter, why all the hoopla surronding it?
"This discussion isn't about audio or Blu-Ray. Its about HD resolutions, and the 360 vs PS3. I could fill 80 Blu-Ray disks with pictures of George Bush that wouldn't fit on a single DVD-9. That’s not for here though, is it"
You say this, then next paragraph you say its about Next-Gen. I would include this in Next-Gen.
"Once again, WHAT? The 360 is a next gen system. In fact, its more next gen that Sony's in some regards. Just because Sonys launched with 1080p out of the box, doesn't make it any more next gen than the 360. In fact the Wii is a next gen machine too. Graphics and raw horse power don’t make a machine "next gen". Its what’s added to the system. I suppose your one of these people that sees the 360 as just an upgraded xbox as well are you? Your just a classic Sony fanboy. The PS3 rules. All else sucks. Anybody who disagrees is a moron, right?"
Focus on the last few sentences, Pot meet Kettle.
"Well, lets put it this way... Who outsold the PS3 this xmas? Who has the better online (Which by the way, is what this "next gen" is all about this time). Oh, and who is the one who just launched a system thats "the only next gen, 4d machine", but cant shift consoles off of shelves because they dug a hole so deep they cant get out...?"
Lets refer back to your first paragraph: "They have had longer to work on it, get it nicer looking etc. THATS Why."
Why dont you whiners just STFU and wait and see who comes out on top? Those who can afford it can get all 3 systems. Those who cant want to bitch "Oh, i wouldn't use a PS3 even if it was given to me."
RIIIGHT. Don't you have a class to goto?
Raistlin @ Jan 23rd 2007 10:07AM
Jayntampa:
"I have a 720p DLP TV that gives me a great picture with my 360 HD-DVD drive ... and games. The reason I haven't bought a PS3 is because I'm not going to pay $600 for a system that can output only at 480 ... and, for me, that's what it would be doing. So, they lost a sale, end of story. Basically, I'd be paying all that money for a Blu-ray player that's outputting at DVD levels. Ummm ... no thanks."
Yea, for you. Some people won't/can't afford to upgrade. Some can, but why do MS fans bitch about the ones who do? Personally, I have no preferance. Gimme all 3, and I'll play all 3.
Josh @ Jan 23rd 2007 10:12AM
I hope all you retards out there with 720p TVs also realize your TVs support 1080i signals so you have zero reason to complain.
kabes @ Jan 23rd 2007 10:13AM
JET
People who jumped on the HDTV bandwagon earlier than you're noob ass did will have 1080i TVs. This is the VAST MAJORITY of HDTVs on the market right now (including many older Sony HDTVs). Sony chose foolishly not to support this.
Sony made a wrong decision, face it.
SMERSH @ Jan 23rd 2007 10:22AM
This kind of thing is baffling. Is HD this important in America? Does everyone really have a widescreen television? I've only ever seen one outside a store display (I'm in Australia). Admittedly, I'm an underpaid student, so this kind of thing isn't really marketed at me, and I'm unlikely to come across them, but still.
What seems most interesting to me is the way the systems have tiered. If, as JET claims, the ps3 is a 'high-end system', hasn't that taken it out of direct competition with Nintendo and Microsoft? It separates the market in a way the I don't think we saw before (I could be wrong). I know why I don't want a 360, and it's not because of resolution, because I have a SDTV and I can't afford and don't want a new one. It's because I don't have $650AU. That's more than my share of the rent. And I certainly don't have a fucking GRAND to spend on a ps3, no matter how much I would love MSG4. But I could, conceivably, with a bit of hard work and some frugality, buy a Wii.
Is this good? I don't know. I think it's important to keep in mind that most of the people you see posting on Joystiq are an exception to the rule; we're the kind of people who care. But really, I don't think we have a right not to think. Fighting over who has the 'better' console only inspires the kind of rabid brand-loyalty better known as 'fanboyism'. And that's not conducive to a vibrant, diverse industry. Do we want to be stuck in the age of franchises forever?
Fhaze @ Jan 23rd 2007 10:35AM
Reality check,
1080p I have heard from numerous sources is only really distinguishable once you get into TV sizes 42" and above. The people that put Sony into the drivers seat as the number one console of choice (speaking of the PS2) were generally people who game on TV sizes 36" and lower. You know the consumers I am talking about JET, normal folk. To the normal consumer they don't know what resolution they watch at, it just better work. So when they hook up their PS3 and find that movies look like crap because it can only show at 480p they will be pissed. 1080p prices need to hit the Wal-Mart consumer level before they can be considered the new standard. Much like the PS3 has to drop in price before the same Wal-Mart consumer will buy one. Hence forcing developers to not make exclusive titles for the PS3 and port to the 360 as well.
Sony needs to get this working. I can't imagine 1080p televisions coming down to the $999.00 level by Christmas. Hence, they need 720p to work. Feel free to disagree, however the PS2 didn't win because it had the best graphics. It won because it was the most accessible to the normal consumer. A fact you choose to ignore.
Tim @ Jan 23rd 2007 12:05PM
Just as an FYI to JET:
The XBox360 HD-DVD player DOES output 1080p via the VGA connection. It is limited to 1080i over component due to a stupid limitation forced by the HD-DVD format ('no 1080p over component'), but it is not because of the a limitation in the 360 itself. I've seen 1080p via VGA at a friend's house for the HD-DVD, and it looks great.
Beyond that, I run 1080p myself via component for all other aspects of the 360. Okay, it's not HDMI... but so what. On a 52" 1080p set from 10 feet away, you CANNOT tell the difference between 1080p over component vs HDMI.
Hmerly @ Jan 23rd 2007 10:58AM
JET, you're entitled to your opinions and thats fine and dandy, but when you tell lies or simply don't do your research and give your opinions from a position of ignorance you really make yourself look very very stupid and nullifies whatever other points that you made might have been legitimate.
The Xbox 360 does ouput 1080P natively and the HD-DVD add-on does output a native 1080p signal through the VGA cable. There is no scaling involved there. I thought everyone knew this, but apparently not. So, I would suggest you read up a bit more before you go running your "elitist" mouth off again.
"It is kind of interesting that you say you watched Serenity in 1080p. Not on 360 you didn't. By Microsoft's own admission, the HD-DVD drive is limited to 1080i due to the lack of an HDMI cable. That 1080p you *think* you're seeing is everybody's favorite 360 scaler at work."
Mick @ Jan 23rd 2007 11:11AM
What I find discouraging is when movies have black bars, they are eating up resolution anyway. I have a PS3, I have to set blu-ray movies for 1080i and have my 720p PJ rescale it. Then the black bars are eating up lines, how much of a difference is there when it's all said and done? Not much, IMO.