Sony site confuses GT:HD with PGR3

Sony copies? Oh yeah, you bet.

Did someone at Sony push the "auto destruct" button a while ago?
I
mean, jesus F.. Christ how can they screw up that much?

a little bird has already passed this on to MS PR and legal...

;-)

"Oh and for the record, you DON'T own a PS3. If you did you would know what you were talking about...
Saying you do is easy. I have all the systems that ever came out. See? Easy!"

Keep posting your PS3 FUD on here, Kotaku etc. It won't matter. I guess my name, Bloo_Sundae, on the GTHD time trial leaderboards mean I don't own a PS3 LOL. Put me on your "friends" list while you're at it and I'll hit you back. Want my 360 gamertag too? How about my Wii and DS friend codes. I'm an example of a gaming fan while you are an example of a Sony fan. It's sad and it shows.

@Metalmurphy

PGR3 is a launch game and they haven't made all the best choices in color and background textures. But I can tell you one thing, polygon for polygon there is no car game with more detailed renders. Complete interior and exterior designs. Don't get me started on how much detail went into the New York tracks. If you want to see sick AA jump into photo mode or in the garage where you can move around freely in realtime.

49. Do you even know what FUD means?

Those are photos taken with a camera offscreen of GT HD. How is this "PS3 FUD"?

For the record, i don't own a PS3, Xbox, 360, or even a PS2 for that matter (I have played on all though). I'm a PC gamer. I don't bother buying a console when it gets outdated after 2 or 3 years... I do own a PSP, guess that will make me a Sony fanboy huh?...

Why even post in these comments then, Metalmurphy? If your the typical PC-only gamer elitist by bother getting involved with console wars?

I just made one simple comment on what i noticed. Sudently i get bashed for all angles... Sorry for trying to prove my point after that...

It's seems that not beeing Anti-Sony is the same as beeing a Sony fanboy these days...

@VampireHunter Z
Your right about the City tracks, they're beautiful in PGR3, i also found the cockpit view to be amazing, as for car modeling, sorry but i don't agree with that, GT HD car modling is simply out of this world and miles ahead of PGR3, every little detail is there and beautifully done.

*Yawwwwwwwwwwn*


GT HD = same boring GT with a fresh coat of paint

That game is a serious snoozer.

When you add vehicle damage like forza and pgr1-3also 4, then you can talk how mighty the gt series is as a simulation and game.

@52 You say you are a PC gamer because you don't like how consoles get outdated, but how often do PCs get outdated? Every few months or so? Thought so.

Meh...funny, but...not the 1st time the sony site has done something like this, I remember before GRAW came out for 360, and the ps2 and xbox1 versions were being advertised as well...the sony site had the 360 target renders for ps2 screenshots...that, this, the MetalSlug/Wii thing...the psp xmas thing...sony doesn't have the best online presence these days huh...

As far as I'm concerned PGR and GT are apples and oranges. One's an arcade title and the other a simulation. I was a Sega GT fan(DC and Xbox) but I can still admit that nothing will probably knock Gran Turismo off it's thrune. Forza might, I could be wrong, hopefully I'm wrong (I'm a 360 guy now lol).

heh - quite easy to figure out how it could have happened.

do a google images search for "Gran Turismo HD" (no quotes) and on the third page the PGR3 image appears for a "invalid topic" gamespot forum post on Gran Turismo 5 screen shots in the PS3/Driving section. HAH!

http://images.google.com/images?q=Gran+Turismo+HD&ndsp=21&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&start=42&sa=N

the image is even still hosted there:

http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/images/2005/257/927245_20050915_screen002.jpg

Boss: "We need a cool graphic for GTHD"
Webdev: "I'll see what i can find"
Boss: "Great!"
Webdev: types "images.google.com"... click. click. click. "There's a nice one"

awesome

How do you even make a mistake like that. the original picture has the microsoft game studios watermark on it. Unless whoever did the web design found the same picture without the watermark and just didnt read where it was coming from, they would have had to remove the microsoft watermark which would have lied under the "download for PSP" tab. I really want to know how this happened. If it were a screen from Ridge Racer or something that would be dumb, but this is the competitor's image. How does that even happen?

61. Erm, they get outdated as long as you don't upgrade them, thats the thing, you can't do that on consoles. In 2 or 3 years i'm gonna be playing games VASTLY superior to the consoles.

Jihad> or, maybe right now the gaming world is anti-Sony because they have had a PR implosion over the last 18 months? The web is a reflection of those who use it.

"61. @52 You say you are a PC gamer because you don't like how consoles get outdated, but how often do PCs get outdated? Every few months or so? Thought so."

You missed his points.

PC growth is analog. It's constantly moving. A game coming out two years from now will look significantly better than one coming out today.

Console growth is digital. It is stagnant, then makes a big jump, then remains stagnant for half a decade or so. A 360 game coming out two years from now will still look mostly like Gears of War.



See how it's different? He wasn't talking about the individual PCs but the platform as a whole.

another attempt by sony to cut corners and steal from microsoft.

#53 VampireHunter Z, here's a perfect example of what you said:

http://www.xboxyde.com/leech_2085_1_en.html

GT:HD has HDR and bloom lighting, but only in the replay mode. You'll also notice that the framerate cuts down from 60 to 30FPS in replay mode too.

I'll just say.. Regards the GT HDR rendering, technically it's not the case. GT will almost certainly be rendering in 8bit integer RGBA, just like almost every other PS3 game (with the exception of VF5).

PGR3 on the other hand, will be rendering in 10bit floating point RGB, aka FP10, just like almost every other 360 game. This is technically HDR, as the colour range is 64x larger than int8. (FP10 render targets are a feature unique to the 360)

I'd expect GT is simply bumping up the brightness while in the tunnel, where PGR looks to be actually doing a proper tone mapping pass.
Both have their pros and cons of course, but only the latter is technically HDR.

This also effects the bloom pass, because FP10 allows for colour range greater than what is displayed, the bloom in PGR3 only occurs on very bright pixels (which get saturated back to the 0-1 range when output).. where the bloom in GT replays appears to occur on moderately bright pixels.

In the PGR3 shot they used, the bloom in the pic is only coming from pixels that are totally white or being heavily saturated (and it's still only slight bloom)

As for car detail, well thats a load time and memory usage trade off really. You can always add more detail, however it effects your budget for other resources and load time. You probably have on average 20mb to use per vehicle, and I'd expect the GT demo cars are above that.

"41. GT is better as far as a simulation racer goes. PGR is an excellent arcade racer.

However, Forza 2 will wipe them both off the floor, much like the last one did."

You have got to stop taking that medication.

GT is a better simulation? My left testicle says no...

Last time I checked, when I went 300kph straight against a wall, a real-life car would be reduced to the length of a limp penis.

GT4 and GTHD are sorry excuses of "simulations". When If I drive a car in real life and ram into cement blocks, I can guarantee that the car won't bounce 2 meters in the opposite direction and I can certainly affirm that the hood will have at the very least a scratch.

PRG2 and 3, while being arcade racers, at least have damage modeling. You can't say that about GT whatever. Yet, despite having such an essential feature for a racing SIMULATOR, they don't go around banging their chests and claiming that they have a real driving simulator.

In that respect, Forsa utterly destroys GT whatever in physics realism. It is much more a simulation than GT whatever (but still far from it).

You want real racing simulations? Try a PC with a good force feedback wheel and RFactor or GTR2.

And sure, it's easy to make a racing game look so nice when all you have onscreen is one car.

"59. As far as I'm concerned PGR and GT are apples and oranges. One's an arcade title and the other a simulation. I was a Sega GT fan(DC and Xbox) but I can still admit that nothing will probably knock Gran Turismo off it's thrune. Forza might, I could be wrong, hopefully I'm wrong (I'm a 360 guy now lol)."

Man, do you even know how to drive? Obviously not, since you are suggesting that GT is a simulation, which it isn't even remotely close to being.

Calling GT a simulation is like calling RR a simulation.

A simulation recreates real life via mathematical algorithms. PGR and Forsa (and dozens of PC games that blow PRG, Forsa AND GT whatever out of the water and into orbit) at least attempt to mathematically recreate the effect of crashing against cars or other barriers. GT? Bumper cars. Wowee. Rather go to the local amusement park for that shit.

@MosquitoControl:

Right you are.

Guys, if you really want something remotely close to a racing simulation, the PC is probably the best way to go.

By the time Vista is service-patched (out the ass, might I add?) I will upgrade to Core 2 Duo, whatever flavor of DirectX10 card there is out there, and 4GB of ram, plus my force-feedback wheel, and some choice SIMULATION games, and that combination will literally gang-rape whatever PS3 OR Xbox360 can dish out throughout their lifetimes.

Not to say that my current PC doesn't already beat the next-gen consoles out there (physics and simulation-wise). Remember, for racing simulations, it's not about the graphics, it's about being able to effectively translate real-world car behavior and physics, via mathematics, onto a screen, with believable and realistic input.

Sure, having consoles is great and all, but you'd be a fool to think that a PC can't hold a candle to a console, given just a year more time to evolve. The console as a graphics/physics platform compared to a PC? Hopelessly obsolete as soon as you buy it.

Not to say consoles aren't great, but if anyone is trying to peddle that "simulation" crap about racing games for consoles, well, them just ain't right in da noggin'.

Perhaps the PC will always beat the home consoles on a visuals competition, but that doesn't mean the games are better.

I'm not saying PC games are bad. Far from it. But there are plenty of great games you can only get on the Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft consoles.

How fun a game is should always be more important than how pretty it is.
And that's not to say the two HAVE to be mutally exclusive. You can have a game that is both fun and well-detailed.

But the arguments for "PC > Consoles" always results in how you can always spend another $500-or-so every couple of months to get the next greatest video card. Just to see prettier graphics.

How good the hardware is doesn't translate to how good the game is. That is something the developers have to work on, and a game can be good regardless of what platform it's on.

@BPM:

You are absolutely correct. Playing games on a PC does mean frequent updates (although I haven't upgraded my computer for over a year and it still plays fine).

My point was about people trying to dress up GTHD (or GT4 for that matter) as a simulation game, which it clearly isn't.

And graphics, in this case, are definitely NOT the defining factor for a racing simulation.

The crowds in GTHD are incredibly well done. So are the environments in PGR. In fact, they do look prettier than on a PC. However, in a racing simulation one strives for real-world physics, which neither games on their respective consoles deliver. Not that they necessarily can't, but because they opted to place the processing burden on the graphics, not on the physics.

@BPM:

Oh, and you're also right in saying that no matter how pretty graphics are, it's the gameplay that ultimately matters (except in a racing simulation, where the accuracy of the algorithms used to simulate real-world physics take precedence over graphics any day).

Sorry, but you CANNOT simulate racing on a console or a PC. We drive with our eyes, our ass, and our vestibular system (the part of our inner ear that senses motion and balance). Our sense of motion is vital to car control - it tells us how close we are to the limits of our car, if are understeering or oversteering, and if we are about to lose control. I've driven the exact same model of car on a real racetrack and in GT4 for the PS2, and the game offers absolutely zero sense of what the car is doing.

@78 - Evan:

You're right about that, but there are simulators out there - ones that move your ass around and all that via hydraulics. Car companies, in fact, use them all the time to test out their designs (apart from running mathematical simulations).

Games are still used by drivers to get an overall feel for the tracks and how the car is supposed to behave on it.

I understand your point; my original emphasis is that GT whatever is not a racing simulation.

What I would like to emphasize is, if you DO want a racing simulation, the PC is your best bet, as there are games designed to match real-world physics as closely as possible. Console games rarely venture along that path, and certainly GT whatever is about as far away as a racing simulator as you can get.

I do performance driving myself, and while you can't fully recreate the feel of racing, in terms of simulation alone, you are far better off with a PC than with a console, and you are certainly better off NOT playing GT whatever if you believe that it is a simulation (not talking about you).

Finally, we have this:

simulation: the representation of the behavior or characteristics of one system through the use of another system, esp. a computer program designed for the purpose. (from dictionary.com)

Racing simulation are all over the place. How do you think F1 designers test out their car designs before actually carrying out the implementation on a car?

Based on this definition, there are many PC games that are racing simulations. But regardless of the slant you look at it, GT whatever is not, and by a long shot, a racing simulation.

"lso, keep in mind that PGR3 was a rushed port to 360 from Xbox 1 source code, and GT:HD is not actually 1080p @ 60FPS."

PGR3 isn't even 720 once you hit the actual racing... It was all over the blogs about how the game is up-rezzed to 720p - and it shows. It looks good, but there is a very distinct difference between the way it looks in the menus (amazing) or during the countdown before a race (amazing), but during actual racing, not as amazing.... It switches to a custom res that is upscaled to 720p. The cars and enviroment look pixelated compared to the countdown.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-264700.html

hey.. that site is kinda cool... now if only nintendo would work out a way to let me download Evangelion episodes onto my DS...

funniest read about Sony since "Riiiiiiiidge...".

comedy gold. haha.