Poll results: The best way to first-person shoot
After a week of heavy lobbying, fundraising, scheming, opining, and mudslinging, the results are in for our "best way to first-person shoot" poll. As no surprise, the trusty mouse and keyboard still sets the bar when it comes to FPS controls that are quick, accurate, and still feel natural. But it's also apparent that many believe Wii has approvingly evolved the controls with already existing games and/or on the potential of soon-to-be released titles. And if you haven't already, be sure to click on over to the original poll for some good discussion on the topic. Thanks for voting, 'Stiq Nation.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Slaziman @ Jan 31st 2007 3:21PM
Rigged :(
Je2037 @ Jan 31st 2007 3:25PM
Wii FPS controls with 360/ps3 graphics would be so badass.
Jake @ Jan 31st 2007 3:27PM
I have to agree with #2 on this one. It is hard to say the Wii controls rock when there isn't a single good FPS on the platform, but the potential is so obviously there.
tactics @ Jan 31st 2007 3:28PM
i'm surprised MPH didn't get more votes... i think it's the dog's bullocks.
-"superfan" tactics.
Arno @ Jan 31st 2007 3:29PM
Wii FTL
gregory mitchell @ Jan 31st 2007 3:36PM
im sorry but ever since the controller s came out ive been quite bahppy with the way both xbox's controller schemes are for FPS's As for Pc i gave that up a few years back and dont miss it at all.....yea the movement is sharper but all the buttons those games have its rediculous. and besides the shoot being on the mouse its like 25 buttons on the keyboard that when you really need it you forgot where you mapped it.....especially if your constantly playing different games
Rich @ Jan 31st 2007 3:42PM
I'm trying to figure out what "other" would be. Atari stick?
p.s. WASD, WASD, WASD! :)
Zertoss @ Jan 31st 2007 3:43PM
I didn't care for MPH's controls, and I feel like it's still too early to judge the Wii controls for FPS's. I played a little Red Steel and CoD3 with a buddy, and we had fun, but the controls felt a little awkward the whole time. I can't seem to get used to dual sticks either, though I can play like that well enough to enjoy a console FPS. So at this time, WASD is the best control scheme to me. It just feels so right.
Jay @ Jan 31st 2007 3:45PM
Keyboard and Mouse is the fastest and most accurate way to aim.
End of story.
Anyone who thinks otherwise has never played a P.C game that has the same version on a console. A lot of the time, the developers have to dumb down the console version just because it is too hard due to a lack of mouse. The reverse also holds true, games that are console ports to PC can be rediculously easy because you can aim so much better with a mouse.
AirIntake @ Jan 31st 2007 3:46PM
Enjoy your keyboard, majority.
gwangi @ Jan 31st 2007 3:46PM
Damn PC fanboys!
Sensai @ Jan 31st 2007 3:49PM
'I have to agree with #2 on this one. It is hard to say the Wii controls rock when there isn't a single good FPS on the platform...'
He said that it'd be nice if it had the PS3/360 graphics. Note to everyone: Graphics don't make a good game. Just like water-colors don't make a good painting. It's a style.
AirIntake @ Jan 31st 2007 3:51PM
@Jay
Your mouse is the fastest most accurate way to aim (right now). Your keyboard, however, doesn't aim very well at all, and is needlessly cluttered for gaming purposes. And both are absolutely useless when laying on the couch (a very popular gaming position). That's the real 'End of story'.
Pete C @ Jan 31st 2007 3:52PM
Are the Wii controls really that good for FPS though? From what I have read they are overly sensitive and not as easy to control as a dual-analog setup. I haven't tried it myself, but it seems that up to this point the idea has been better than the execution.
Blazur @ Jan 31st 2007 3:55PM
Any true gamer can testify that this is a no-brainer.
wait in the car @ Jan 31st 2007 3:56PM
I'd have to agree that the keyboard/mouse combo is by far the most accurate. The Wii controls most closely mimic real life though, in that you actually have to point and shoot. Now, if they could just make some decent games that don't have janky controls. It's sad when the shooter games on Rayman feel much more fluid than actual FPS's.
JodyAnthony @ Jan 31st 2007 3:57PM
Pete C:
What it all boils down to is there hasn't been enough FPS games for Wii to definitively say if it is a great FPS control scheme. The FPS games out for Wii now have pretty terrible FPS controls, but remember it's only 2 months into the life of the system. There are plenty of dual analog FPS games that control like ass too.
The thing I find funniest is that Red Steel, Call of Duty and Far Cry Wii, the controls are for the most part shitty, where the FPS minigames in Rayman Raving Rabbids (the plunger shooting) have GREAT control (at least in my opinion)
FPS control has the potential to be great on Wii, it just hasn't really been shown yet (unless you like shooting rabbits with plungers)
JodyAnthony @ Jan 31st 2007 3:59PM
(oh and for the record, I voted keyboard/mouse)
www.jodyanthony.com
wait in the car @ Jan 31st 2007 4:00PM
You read my mind Jody.
Zertoss @ Jan 31st 2007 4:00PM
#17
Who doesn't like shooting rabbits with plungers?
Erik Novak @ Jan 31st 2007 4:04PM
There's a problem with your argument, though...Raving Rabbids' shooter sections aren't FPS...they're on rails like Time Crisis.
Mike @ Jan 31st 2007 4:07PM
Voted mouse and keyboard, but I expect my view to change once I get my hands on Metroid Prime 3.
Cry Wolf @ Jan 31st 2007 4:07PM
"Keyboard and Mouse is the fastest and most accurate way to aim.
End of story.
Anyone who thinks otherwise has never played a P.C game that has the same version on a console. A lot of the time, the developers have to dumb down the console version just because it is too hard due to a lack of mouse. The reverse also holds true, games that are console ports to PC can be ridiculously easy because you can aim so much better with a mouse."
Um, sure.
I haven't found a game that had to be "dumbed down" to make the learning curve easier. I've played Halo 2 on the PC and it just felt very uncomfortable. The console controls were easier to use and had the SAME effect as the PC's controls. There is a subtle difference, but I honestly don't see the big deal about it. By the way, don't generalize people.
Jake @ Jan 31st 2007 4:08PM
@12
I know what he said, and I totally agree with it. It would be nice if it had better graphics, imo. That is just me though, others may prefer crappy graphics in return for a lower price console.
As for the controls, I have yet to see a good Wii game. I am not judging it by graphics alone. There aren't any good ones yet by last gen standards. Once there is, it will be interesting to see how good the controls really are. I have always thought they will be very good for an FPS. Others think they will always suck. It will be interesting to see.
And yes, graphics do matter damnit. Do you think that Gears of War would be a game of the year candidate if it was a PS2 game with crappy graphics even by PS2 standards? Hell no. People who say graphics don't matter probably have never seen GT HD or Gears in HD. It is friken amazing. Expensive, yes. Not worth the money, possibly. Absolutely friken awesome if you have it, oh yes.
@#9
Dude, nobody argues that a mouse isn't faster than analog sticks. Regardless of the aiming speed a mouse offers, I prefer playing FPS games on my console, kicked back on the couch playing on the 46" HD. I am not alone.
Since when does aiming speed = fun automatically? I like the challenge of aiming. And though analog takes more time to master, once you have it down you can still aim pretty quickly; faster than in real life, anyways, which should be plenty.
What if there was a 50lb helmet you could wear on your head that had a rusty cord that plugged into your sphincter, but could read your brain and aim and shoot as fast as you could think? Would that be the best input ever because it is so fast?
syco @ Jan 31st 2007 4:14PM
Mouse and Keyboard are idea, but few have these at hand when sitting down at the couch to game. The Wiimote works very well in lieu of M/K.
I absolutely despise playing FPS dual-analog style, because generally they map the controls in such a way that it's very difficult to turn a corner... They genreally map strafe on a stick instead of letting it be buttons somewhere, so you can't just turn with one stick, you have to move forward, and use the shooting stick to turn yourself. It just doesn't make any sense. They map it like it's a mouse and keyboard, they don't adapt to the gamepad at all. Now games that allow custom controller configurations are fine because you can fix this glaring error, but otherwise... BAH.
Ken @ Jan 31st 2007 4:15PM
Yeah, we're much too early in the Wii's lifespan to make an accurate judgement. Once they get all the kinks out, I think it will be alot better.
As for me, I'm a mouse and keyboard kinda guy. Dual Analogs don't work for me so well in FPS games. But I've not been at it as long as I have with mouse/keyboard combo. So that could be why.
Red Steel's multiplayer is fun as anything with 4 people. Brings me back to the goldeneye days...
Edge of Blade @ Jan 31st 2007 4:26PM
I hope this is the last time I have to explain that this is an argument of absolutes when there is so much that isn't absolute about the issue. This is just flame bait for two groups over something that doesn't matter, exacerbated by the fact that there is no "it depends" option in the poll.
The game itself makes a huge difference. If the game was designed as a console shooter, the game will feel clunky on a PC and vice versa. It has nothing to do with whether one control style is better than another.
On that note, I'm absolutely sick of the assumption that PC players will wipe the floor with Xbox gamers in Shadowrun. The game is being developed with both in mind, but people have already pre-judged the situation, despite TONS of information from various sources that it came out balanced in the end.
I can only predict what will happen when the game ships. PC gamers will whine that they aren't wiping the floor with Xbox gamers, Xbox gamers will whine that they used "auto aim" to balance the game, and their respective worlds will be shaken just because they can't drop the dogma they have irrationally attached themselves to.
And Wii is NOT made for FPS. It is made to be original. NOT to follow every knee jerk reaction to development you have! That goes for Red Steel, but I will wait and see how Metroid works.
Nate @ Jan 31st 2007 4:32PM
I can't believe more people don't like the dual analog setup (Xbox/360)....IMO, Halo is the best controlling FPS I've ever played...and with the S Controller, it's flawless (Halo 2, Half-Life 2, and Doom 3 also play like a dream). The 360 gamepad is even better than the S Controller, so games like PD0, CoD3, etc. play amazingly.
360 gamepad is the best way to go for FPS's IMO. Plus you get to sit on your couch and enjoy the game on a big screen.
AirIntake @ Jan 31st 2007 4:39PM
@syco
The controls for dual analog seem mapped fine to me. You would seriously like to remove strafe from the left analog stick and put it on some buttons?? You're probably alone on that one....and what the heck would left and right on the left analog stick do then if not strafe?
TwilightKnight @ Jan 31st 2007 4:40PM
WASD/mouse controls all the way. Nothing like being able to turn 180 degrees and shoot someone sneaking up behind you in less then a second.
It has gotten to the point with console FPS games where they level design is built around the limitations of the controls. I remember hearing about this from some developer, saying that they had to make their levels so there isn't any akward movements needed from duel analog, like being able to strafe and look up at the same time. With WASD/mouse controls that isn't an issue at all.
The only gripe you can level at WASD/mouse controls is that it isn't universal for all of the players, since you can buy better mouses that has better DPS ratios, which allow for more accurate controlling. Also with those custom keyboards that have that branch for the left hand that has the buttons more layed out for better FPS control. Look it up at thinkgeek.
As for the Wii controls we need to see a excellent FPS game first to lay judgement at if it is possible. The only problem I see developers doing is that they are not tying the movement to the onscreen cursor 1:1 like on PC games. Sure with the Wiimote if it was 1:1 any slight movement of the wiimote would send the camera flying, but at least it would be insanly accurate and fast to turn and aim. Just need to learn how to keep it steady at the screen.
Anybody who voted for duel analog is pretty much retarded.
AirIntake @ Jan 31st 2007 4:44PM
@TwilightKnight
I'm sorry you think I'm retarded. Test have proven, however, that I am not.
Rubang B @ Jan 31st 2007 4:48PM
I'm sorry everybody. I was one of the 327 people who voted for the DS stylings.
AirIntake @ Jan 31st 2007 4:50PM
I'm starting to think that M/KB lovers have all this hate just because they have unskilled thumbs. You don't use your thumb very much for PC gaming, now do you guys?
el nico @ Jan 31st 2007 4:53PM
would you guys characterize elebits as a fps? i thought the controls for that game were amazing, my girlfriend can dodge black elebit attacks and tanks attacks in that game as if she were a gamer.
my vote goes to the xbox controller for comfortablitly (sitting on couch, being able to hit other buttons for other functions quickly) , wii for potential (ELEBITS!!!), and the mouse for pure accuracy.
jusmailuck @ Jan 31st 2007 5:04PM
Whoever voted Wii, I'm sorry but no.
As interesting as it sounds, the first generation of Wii FPS's have been flatout bombs.
While the idea of an on-rail/Stationary shooter on the Wii works perfectly, ala most minigames on Ray Man/Monkey Ball...
When it comes to implementing decent movement controls, the Wii suffers. Either the controls are far too sensitive where a slight movement makes the camera turn too far, or it's ploddingly slow when it comes to turning around to shoot the baddie behind you.
I'm all for the Wii getting a good FPS, but until developers can work out all the kinks in the controls, the mouse/keyboard combo will still reign supreme in my mind.
Chris @ Jan 31st 2007 5:09PM
I'm a huge Wii fan, and I think Metroid will blow the world away, but seriously the wii has definatly not proven itself in that area at all. The fact that it is tied with two proven methods is stupid.
Of course I voted for Metroid Hunters control. :P
Stumper @ Jan 31st 2007 5:15PM
Cry Wolf: how did you play Halo 2 on your computer?
Nate: The problem with what you're saying is that most of those games have VERY inaccurate weapons to begin with (my only complaint about HL2). Play Counterstrike:source, then play Halo. you'll notice the difference immediately
Edge of the Blade: It all depends on how accurate the weapons are. Are they Counterstrike style (point target)? If so, it'll be an annihilation. If they're Halo 1 style (area target, outside of the pistol), it'll be fine.
To anyone that says gamepads are just as good, go Scouting in CS, then try to use a sniper rifle in Halo or Gears. you'll notice the difference, or you're deluded.
Wiggydee @ Jan 31st 2007 5:37PM
Other only got 1%???
Surely i'm not the only person who is still in love with time crisis!?!?!?
theLoneYoshi @ Jan 31st 2007 5:42PM
@ el nico
I have to agree that Elebits does control pretty well for what it is, but it is a much slower-paced game than an FPS. Unlike what the IGN review said... you CAN turn really fast, but you have to point pretty far off the screen to do so, in my opinion.
I personally voted for the Mouse/Keyboard setup, with dual analogs at a very close second, and the Wii at a distant 3rd... The Wii does have potential, Elebits proved to be a very enjoyable game, but no developer has found the perfect configuration for Wii FPS games... Here's to hoping Retro Studios pulls off an amazing Metroid Prime 3 experience.
Also, Anyone who voted for Metroid Prime Hunters control is crazy! The game worked well, but it hurts your hands in the (not so) long run (at least it hurt mine). There's no way it comes close to dual analog and the mouse/keyboard setups.
Seroth @ Jan 31st 2007 5:50PM
Call of Duty 3 for the Wii worked really well, as far as aiming was concerned. Too bad it was really just a crappy port of a 360 game.
Keyboard and mouse FTW. There's nothing really wrong with using a keyboard for movement and action commands. The only thing is that you have no analog movement for WASD, so you'll have to hold down the shift key or something to walk...though with the FPS games I play (like UT), walking = death. :D
Rob Accomando @ Jan 31st 2007 5:52PM
I totally agree that Mouse/keyboard beats all.
Those who think console control pads are better must have never played a PC FPS.
Even the crappiest PC FPS has excellent control.
I hope developers can make some good Wii FPS control schemes because I hate FPSs on consoles simply because of the controls
Stick_Man @ Jan 31st 2007 6:12PM
Mouse / keyboard is only so so for FPS the most ultimate set up for FPS is trackball / keyboard with sensitivity 100% for XY axis. it is a serious pain to learn but once you get the hang of it it blows the socks off of mouse / keyboard... 180* turns with less than 1/4th of an inch thumb movement. pinpoint accuracy with just millimeters of movement. plus you never worry about having to move a mouse and recenter it should something happen. just move your thumb a few centimeters. "Other" FTW!
nickrit2 @ Jan 31st 2007 6:30PM
i agree that 360 graphics + wii controls would be the best...but just wait until mp3 comes out, then post this poll again and see how many people think wii controls are better
AnimalTaglits @ Jan 31st 2007 6:35PM
My guess is that everyone who didn't vote PC has never played a PC FPS. It's not even debatable. It's like comparing apples and poop.
Kazi @ Jan 31st 2007 6:58PM
Wiggy, an on rails shooter is a different genre from a FPS. Which is what Time Crisis is.
For me, a track ball (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2150,CONTENTID=5003) is my weapon of choice. Not only are they as accurate and fast as a mouse and ergonomic they allow you to move anywhere and use them. So people that complain you can't get mouse like accuracy while sitting on a couch obviously haven't touched a trackball yet (I play FPS on my couch with my laptop all the time). You also don't have to worry about having a huge mousepad because of the wonky way a laser mouse acts on some textures.
Grey Acumen @ Jan 31st 2007 7:07PM
The scores are pretty much exactly what I expect them to be, but only after taking two things into mind:
First off, there were a lot of people who were commenting on either never having used the Wii, or having only played Red Steel, or the like.
Many of these people, if they had a halfway decent example of what a fps could REALLY be like on the Wii, probably would have voted for it. But there aren't many really well done FPS just yet.
This is what I believe is the reason Wii fell just barely short of surpassing the dual directional pads.
The second issue is one that I think is incredibly important for people to understand, and I say this as for all intents and purposes a wii fanboy: there is lag on aiming. It's not huge, and after a few minutes of playing, you barely notice it, but it is there. On top of this, I can't really say that I believe it will be able to improve the response enough to match what the Mouse/keyboard combination can do.
This is what I think kept the wii from surpassing M/KB, and may even continue to do so.
However, there are advantages that the wii has, namely those of:
Intuitive Aim - (if you've played Zelda:TP, you know what I mean) You can aim at anything even while moving and it would be just as easy as if you were doing it IRL. It might be harder to aim than m/kb, but that difficulty will be due to the player's ability, not the controls.
Comfortable Controls - The Wii controller+nunchuck setup is the most comfortable controller I have EVER held. It is the only console I have been able to LOUNGE while playing. You can sprawl out on your couch with one arm behind your head while you aim with your free hand. You can't do that with the 360 controller where you're practically handcuffed to it, or with a cumbersome keyboard and a mouse that needs a flat surface to work properly.
Rumble Feedback - admittedly, the controllers can rumble too, but I haven't seen many rumble capable mice being sold.
Sound Feedback - Okay, so the speaker that is built into the wiimote isn't exactly dolby digital surround sound. But it is pretty darn cool that there's the potential for your weapon to actually have the 'bang' come from your gun, rather than the tv. On top of that, depending on what weapon you use, the sound can change, flamethrowers, rocket launchers, grenade launchers, machine guns, pistols, etc.
Control Scheme Potential -
Nunchuck: By flicking the nuchuck up & back a jump can be initiated, by leaning the nunchuck forward, a crouch can be initiated. By tilting nunchuck quickly to either side, a roll can be initiated
C = forward (alternate = Z)
Z = back (alternate = C)
joystick = camera movement (can be set for up = down)
Wiimote: Aiming wiimote at screen provides targeting
B = fire
A = camera override (the wiimote now controls the camera, not just the aim)
D-pad left or right = cycle through weapons
D-pad up = change view (FPS or OverShoulder)
D-pad down = change scope (regular, infrared
+ = zoom in slowly while using sniping weapon
- = zoom out slowly while using sniping weapon
(while sniping, pressing A will break snipe mode)
1 = reload ammo
2 = pulls up some sort of options menu until pressed again
home = usual Wii options menu
Of course, this is only a basic layout, the + and - could be changed for something else if sniping wasn't a huge deal other buttons could be switched around, my A button idea might not work well in practice, but I would personally love to see this basic control style implemented. I just came up with this off the top of my head, so imagine what could be done if someone really sat down and thought this out...
Of course, as has already been noted, it's up to the developers to capitalize on teh controls offered. As Wii gains popularity, I think more companies will be developing with the Wiimote in mind. Until then, we'll just have to wait and see I suppose.
I would kinda like another poll to be done after some decent FPS are released on the Wii and more consoles are moved, just to see if the stats change any.
btboy500 @ Jan 31st 2007 7:12PM
@Jake,
"And yes, graphics do matter damnit. Do you think that Gears of War would be a game of the year candidate if it was a PS2 game with crappy graphics even by PS2 standards? Hell no."
If the answer is no, and there's a widespread sentiment that games should be considered GotY candidates because of good graphics then I'm truly concerned for the industry overall.
"People who say graphics don't matter probably have never seen GT HD or Gears in HD. It is friken amazing. Expensive, yes. Not worth the money, possibly. Absolutely friken awesome if you have it, oh yes."
I've definitely seen Gears of War in HD on GameTrailers, and there's no doubt that it's graphically impressive. The primary question on my mind however, is whether it's fun, because it's only a matter of time before more polygons are pushed in games, but if the experience isn't fun, then it doesn't matter.
gtpunch @ Jan 31st 2007 7:13PM
A mouse is faster with games that don't limit the speed at which you can move/aim.
Console FPSs limit your rate of movement, as moving at too high a speed with an analogue stick would be disorientating.
If a PC FPS limited the speed at which you could move and aim, it would be like playing a console through through an XCM XFPS or similar mouse interface, which translates the mouse's movements into fake analogue stick output.
The analogue stick controls of console FPS's actually become part of the game though- with characters unable to spin in a fraction of a second it's possible to see where they're looking, and predict when they're going to turn.
This is why it's not really meaningful to have PCs and consoles competing at the same game. Either you have to limit the mouse player's rate of turn, annoying the hell out of them, or give them an unfair movement speed advantage.
In Gears of War (not a real FPS except when aiming, etc.) it's possible to sneak up 'behind' another player, and react if they turn around before they've got a shot off. This really adds to the experience, and isn't possible in an environment where people are spinning around at high speed.
Trying to decide which is 'best' between a mouse and an analogue stick is like deciding whether a dragster or rally car are 'best'. A dragster is great if your race is just a straight line but a lot of fun can be had throwing a 'slow' rally car around curves.
Anonymous Coward @ Jan 31st 2007 7:28PM
Keyboard and mouse is direct position/direction control; you directly control the movements of your character's viewpoint with the movements of your hand/mouse.
Analog stick, however, is velocity control; you control the speed/rate of the change in your character's viewpoint based on the vector force you're tilting the stick with. Arguably, it makes it naturally less responsive than a configuration where mouse is used to aim.
The Wii remote is a mix of both so far; you directly control the aim of your character using a pointer-like crosshair but you're still limited with a velocity-based control scheme when actually changing the direction of your character's viewpoint (bringing the crosshair to the edges of the frustum). The Wii remote for FPSs could have the potential of perhaps being even better than keyboard and mouse if developers would just ditch the stupid velocity-based control scheme on Wii FPSs and make it so that the absolute position change using a Wii remote will simply equate to absolute direction change of your in-game character (basically, the direct movement control scheme you would see in a game using a mouse for aiming).
John @ Jan 31st 2007 7:35PM
If by "best" you mean most advantageous in a competitive environment, the Keyboard and Mouse is your answer.
If "best" takes any other definition, the answer becomes subjective. Most realistic, most comfortable and most enjoyable are all preferential and debatable. The turning speed and accuracy of a mouse is not.
To make a long and unnecessary argument short,
If you want WIN, you want MOUSE.
If you want FUN, take your preference.