Wii VC's Mario Kart 64 to remain ghostless
by James Ransom-Wiley 
{ Jan 31st 2007 at 5:15PM }
Nintendo has no plans to address players' inability to save time trial ghost data in the just released Wii Virtual Console port of Mario Kart 64 (the original game required a Controller Pak to record the data). "Due to unavoidable technical reasons unfortunately it is not possible to save ghost data," claims a Nintendo statement sent to Pro-G. Shoppers are apparently advised of the missing feature before purchasing the title from Wii Shop Channel.Unavoidable? Maybe, but we suspect Nintendo's just being lazy. Since no N64 game required any of the 'Pak' controller add-ons (including Rumble) to play (some required a Controller Pak to save), developers of VC's N64 emulator and its games aren't bothering to re-code scripts to circumvent commands meant for the Paks. Surely ghost data could be saved to Wii's flash drive; after all, the original Controller Pak contained a mere 256 KB of memory. If a more important Pak issue, for a more important N64 VC game arises, trust us, "unavoidable" will become "we're working on it."
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
DWells55 @ Jan 31st 2007 5:20PM
If an N64 emulator written by random community coders can handle ghosts, please tell me why the folks at Nintendo who have access to the full N64 SDK and files can't get it to work on the Wii's Virtual Console?
This is surely nothing but laziness.
Crono @ Jan 31st 2007 5:20PM
This will probably mean no rumble in Starfox64 as well.
Bastards!
Agent MOO @ Jan 31st 2007 5:21PM
Minor loss, but how flipping lazy can they be? I haven't heard of any freeware emulators having problems with mapping controller pak calls. Are N64 games being released without save functionality altogether?
Derbeste @ Jan 31st 2007 5:21PM
So much for "all games will be in their unaltered state".
Nightram @ Jan 31st 2007 6:27PM
A more important VC N64 title? This is about the most exciting N64 VC title to use Pak issues that I can think of. Goldeneye, Smash Bros., and the Zelda games didn't use it.
Eric @ Jan 31st 2007 5:25PM
That's just dumb.
tmmoore_nc @ Jan 31st 2007 7:24PM
If it was an unavoidable problem, they'd reveal to someone else the problem to verify it. Until they do, no one will believe them.
JodyAnthony @ Jan 31st 2007 5:29PM
well technically Derbeste, the game is in its unaltered state. The problem is it's just like playing the game on an actual 64 if you didnt own a controller pak.
idioteraser @ Jan 31st 2007 8:04PM
It is in the unaltered state. The controller pak was an optional addon that was paid for by consumers to get more out of certain games.
Now when a N64 game that uses that added mem storage to up the games graphics they may add that.
Now I guess people missed out on the shop channel manual that mentioned that games could be updated and that the games would show the update option when it was available.
So they could patch the game for existing users in the future.
aosth @ Jan 31st 2007 5:32PM
as long as it doesnt affect games that need it to save progress.
Travelle @ Jan 31st 2007 6:37PM
Wii ware people!!! I can easily see Nintendo offering 'Virtual' ad ons for the N64.
You want rumble and controller paks..Spend $6 on each!
Watch it happen.
Virtua Fanboy @ Jan 31st 2007 5:36PM
That is just fucking lazy...and sad, just fucking sad. There is no defending that but I'm sure some Wii owning dumbass will try.
Mr Khan @ Jan 31st 2007 5:36PM
I think that if the Classic Controller had actually supported rumble, then rumble probably would've been supported across the board (GC controller and Wii Remote do, of course)
But it is most likely just laziness (profit driven) that causes Nintendo to leave out something, i would understand if it was actually difficult to emulate, but it apparently isn't
Although, upon having a thought, maybe the technical difficulties might be due to how the Wii maintains its VC files, and that they didn't code space in the game to have it make multiple save files for one VC game, which is what ghosts would require
Jareck @ Jan 31st 2007 6:31PM
to sound like a n00b....wtf is ghost data?
Karttikeya @ Jan 31st 2007 5:47PM
This is another event in which Nintendo takes the easy way out to make profit, and lose little money as possible.
The list goes on: friend codes, GC-Classic Controller compatability, GC-Wii game saves compatability, releasing old console ports onto future handhelds...
Sooner or later, Nintendo is going to rerelease the games on VC with online and tilt functionality, and charge you for more than its original price.
Eggman @ Jan 31st 2007 5:56PM
Holy HELL shut up. I have never seen pickier retards in all my life. Oh boo hoo. It affects NOTHING. Suck it up.
Blah blah blah Sony fanboys trying to find tiny things to pick at. They're ghosts. What would they be useful for on the Wii? You have your time trial records. You can't bring the ghosts over to your friend's place.
Honestly, if they had included the ghosts, you'd all be bitching about how "Oh man, I can't send them to my friends online Nintendo takes the easy way out again!"
I have to say, out of every site on the entire Internet, joystiq has the WORST community by FAR.
Mr Khan @ Jan 31st 2007 5:59PM
@ above comment
Exactly how do friend codes increase Nintendo's profit? it wouldn't cost them anything to change over to standard chat, nor would it cost them much to allow the bandwidth for pre-game and post-game chat altogether
I understand your rant, but half the stuff you mentioned wouldn't help their bottom line...
rudimentalist @ Jan 31st 2007 6:01PM
Honestly not that big a deal to me. Who can say they used those things consistently anyways? Just ONE ghost file for ONE track when playing the original game took up the ENTIRE memory card except for like two pages, so I never used them in the first place. Really not a dealbreaker. I'm not gonna rebuy the game or anything, but it's still my favorite Mario Kart next to the DS version, and I doubt some of these people complaining even played it.
Ikitsumatatsu @ Jan 31st 2007 6:19PM
ITT spoiled brats
Matt @ Jan 31st 2007 6:20PM
it's not reall a big deal...I mean I will still get the game...
but it would have just been nice to make it as close to the origional as possible
Tsalagi @ Jan 31st 2007 6:21PM
Is anyone else having problems with their VC games? Super Mario Bros. is nearly unplayable now and so are a few of my Genesis titles.
LuigiHann @ Feb 1st 2007 2:27PM
I don't mind that you can't save ghost data, although I agree it is stupid. What I do mind, however, is the frequent and obnoxious messages that appear during time trial mode, which assume that I care about saving a ghost file. I wish that those were somehow not there.
Rubang B @ Jan 31st 2007 6:33PM
@10, Karttikeya, what do you mean by GC-Wii game saves compatibility issues?
DWells55 @ Jan 31st 2007 6:37PM
@11. "Holy HELL shut up. I have never seen pickier retards in all my life. Oh boo hoo. It affects NOTHING. Suck it up.
Blah blah blah Sony fanboys trying to find tiny things to pick at. They're ghosts. What would they be useful for on the Wii? You have your time trial records. You can't bring the ghosts over to your friend's place."
---------------------
Sony fanboy? I don't own a PS3, I camped out and sold it on eBay for $1500. I did however show up early for the Wii and have it hooked up with component cables and love the thing. So maybe you should not make broad generalizations.
No matter if you deem ghosts trivial, a lot of people looking for the full experience of the original game are going to be disappointed. It'd be one thing if it were free, but it isn't and it really is inexcusable.
Rubang B @ Jan 31st 2007 6:39PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_%28video_games%29
There's the Wikipedia article on ghosts in video games. It was a way to record your best time on one track and race against yourself "in ghost form" later.
Rubang B @ Jan 31st 2007 6:42PM
Hey I'm all about Nintendo and I realize this is pretty lame. The shop channel does have the ability to update games you've already downloaded FOR FREE, so IF they ever fix it, it'll be free. ::cough cough, comment #20::
Blake @ Jan 31st 2007 8:29PM
Ok, this is completely unacceptable. A game that costs that much that's not even fully functional?
Completely unacceptable. If this trend continues, I will not be buying any virtual counsel games. What's the point of paying again when I can play the original?
Totally lame.
Sensai @ Jan 31st 2007 7:45PM
#20, I fear that you're probably right.
I won't be buying. I sure as hell support Nintendo, but I'm not going to just give my money away. I won't do it for EA (what with their shitty microtransactions for players in games or what-not) and not for Nintendo. Not unless it actually adds something worthwhile to the game.
Gavin @ Jan 31st 2007 8:28PM
Pump and dump...that's what the VC games are. Unaltered dumped ROMs while Nintendo pumps you for more money than they are worth. Anyone defending this behavior is a mindless zombie.
krizoitz @ Jan 31st 2007 8:54PM
Hmmm, from reading this i can gaurentee that none of you have ever developed any kind of sftware before. Yeah they could have put the effort into the process to add ghost save data, but that would have taken time. Depending on the resources dedicated to that game, that could be a LONG time. So pretty much in the eyes of you whiners its damned if you do damned if you don't. Release it now without access to ghost saves and you complain. Release it a month from now and you complain. Its all about tradeoffs. I'm sure they will work on the save pak issue, but personally i'd rather be able to play the game now. You can wait if you want, but for crying out loud its not like they are holding a gun to your head and demanding you buy it.
marksaldana @ Jan 31st 2007 9:21PM
I don't download VC games anymore because of the stupid half assed effort nintendo puts into them. XBLA beats nintendo hands down.
Stone Temple Pilot @ Jan 31st 2007 9:06PM
Personally, I'd rather Nintendo not waste time worrying about ghost data for their VC games like MK64, and worry about all the new games they are no doubt developing. This company is spread so thin working a 2.5 front war right now (I'll include GBA as .5) that I want all their resources working on new content for the Wii and DS.
If you don't think the game is worth the $6 or whatever they're charging without the ghost data then don't buy it. Nintendo is not holding a gun to your head. There is another option for purists: plug your N64 back into the TV.
crazyrabbits @ Feb 1st 2007 7:38AM
Sweet Jiminy Jesus, is there some retard virus going around that makes people more stupid? Look at yourselves! Bitching about a lack of GHOST RACERS on a video game. If you want to see your time, it's called a pen and paper. Write it down. Holy hell, you people just find the most insignificant things to bitch about, don't you? Guess what? Nintendo doesn't care about you. They make gaming for the masses. Just because you stole games and emulators off the web, you don't need to bitch about such a minor and trivial thing. It's your money. If you don't want, don't buy it, instead of coming and fanning the flame wars.
What a bunch of nerds.
t_m @ Jan 31st 2007 10:10PM
isn't this gonna cause major problems on a few games in the future?
I always thought the VC wasa better idea in theory than in reality. But since my laptop can play ANY Nes, Snes, n64 or PS1 game at least as well as the VC (and apparently better) its not so much of an issue for me.
Not that i actually do.. again its more of a good idea in theory than practice.. get 100s of snes games for free.. and then realise that most of them were pants, those that were great at the time aren't as good as you remember them, and that you've been spoiled by modern games. Discover that chrono trigger is the best game ever.. then move on.
StevO @ Jan 31st 2007 10:24PM
I read that Nintendo, to keep their copyright on old games, can only sell that version of the game. If they update the old code in any way and resell it somewhere else, the old game becomes freeware for the emulator community.
Hence, no updated graphics, controls or save functions.
otisgibbon @ Jan 31st 2007 10:38PM
good god somebody call the Waaaambulance. I want a show of hands of anyone who actually used the ghost data anyway. I messed with it for all of 5 minutes myself. This is trivial and at best only very slightly disapointing. I think the people who are crying the hardest about it probably never buy anything Nintendo makes anyway. For the record though I'm not buying this game I don't want to taint the great memories I have of this game.
Ace of Sevens @ Jan 31st 2007 11:09PM
Nintendo was hoping to release everything, including 3rd party games, right? Most required the controller pak to save. A quick check shows that out of 270 Nintendo 64 games documented on MobyGames, 163 used the controller pak. The selection will be very limited if this isn't addressed.
NintendoFanbot @ Feb 1st 2007 12:08AM
"Sooner or later, Nintendo is going to rerelease the games on VC with online and tilt functionality, and charge you for more than its original price."
Yeah right... I suppose people told Nintendo not to update their VC games (even though Nintendo said they could) because these geniuses know more than Nintendo itself knows.
**************************
"That is just fucking lazy...and sad, just fucking sad. There is no defending that but I'm sure some Wii owning dumbass will try."
No use defending against what are exaggerations in the first place. *rolls eyes*
See #26.
*************************
"Ok, this is completely unacceptable. A game that costs that much that's not even fully functional?
Completely unacceptable. If this trend continues, I will not be buying any virtual console games. What's the point of paying again when I can play the original?
Totally lame."
Then play the original. Is that so hard? :P
If you don't have the original, you can enjoy a version of it for Wii.
Most of the games that will ever come out for Wii will be 16-bit and/or 2D. So it's not going to be that big of a deal.
Besides, the only Ghosts in MK64 that matter (the Staff Ghosts) you couldn't even save on the original version. You have to unlock them everytime.
************************
That said, Nintendo has said that they are reformatting the games (N64 specifically) for 480p and etc..
They choose what they want to fix and they'll do it.
samfish @ Feb 1st 2007 12:14AM
"32. Sweet Jiminy Jesus, is there some retard virus going around that makes people more stupid? Look at yourselves! Bitching about a lack of GHOST RACERS on a video game. If you want to see your time, it's called a pen and paper. Write it down"
I guess you never played against a ghost racer before, huh? Had you ever, you wouldn't have said something so stupid.
This isn't just bitching about the lack of a feature that SHOULD exist. This comes on top of all the other disappointments that the Virtual Console/online experience has spawned. Slow to release titles, hardly ever any good titles, no added features, high prices and a crappy points system.
And now we learn that they won't take the 20 seconds to throw in a few lines of code to the N64 emulator to ALLOW MEMORY PAK SAVES TO THE FLASH MEMORY?!
I'm not a programmer, but I'll GLADLY fly to Japan and code those few lines in for Nintendo.
It IS unacceptable.
I was really looking forward to this game, too, since I long since lost my original cartridge...but I can't buy this game. It's the only thing I can do to send Nintendo a clear message that I, for one, am not going to stand for a LITTLE effort to be taken on my behalf.
PurpleSfinx @ Feb 1st 2007 12:23AM
THANKYOU JOYSTIQ! You have restored my faith in... yourselves.
You finally said something critical of Nintendo when they screwed up - which they did. Big time.
Congratlations, as I, and therefore I suspect other people, was just days away from quitting reading Joystiq every day because every second article was just Sony bashing. I actually started looking for a new, less-biased site just 3 days ago.
Good work, Joystiq. Keep it up.
crazyrabbits @ Feb 1st 2007 12:25AM
In response to the reply before me, yes, I have played ghost players before, and no, it most decidedly is NOT a big deal. You are bitching for the sake of bitching, and as you probably read in one of these comments, Nintendo can't modify the code to the game, because it then becomes freeware.
It seems that nothing is good enough for you. You're complaining about a virtual game console that launched, what, two months ago, if that? Nintendo themselves even stated the games would be released in their "original form". Surely you can't be that stupid, can you?
Bitching for the sake of bitching. Stop your fucking whining. If you don't want it because of an insignificant feature, don't buy it. It's that simple.
Cuja @ Feb 1st 2007 1:18AM
People just believing that Nintendo can deliver a full support system is pretty lame. Screw Nintendo before they screw you!
PrincessAdora @ Feb 1st 2007 1:37AM
My Goodness. So many inaccurate comments, so many baseless accusations.
The reasons for this are simple : they pick and choose the battles. MK64 was my all-time favorite game, and I played with the ghost crap exactly once if I recall correctly. Yay! I can battle against my self...it gets old very quickly. The real trick to the ghost data was being able to bring it to other machines, but that is beyond the VC anyway.
There is a balance to VC. I am one of the first to say for a few weeks the titles sucked - but they seem to be getting much better. Contra 3 and MK64 in one week? Boo-ya. I find it ironic that the same people who bitch and moan about the lack of games end up being the people who don't think they are worth paying for in the first place, but that's beside the point.
Look, either the VC games are worth it to you or they aren't. I too have access to virtually every console game ever made (it's not difficult when you can fit them all on a few double-layer DVDs), but I have made quite a few VC purchases. First, it's the easiest and most convenient way to get VC games in 480p - trust me, Mario 64 never looked so good ever. Second, emulators aren't perfect - there are always minor things going on (even just frame clipping or other minor things) that let you know you are playing an emulator. Most of the time it doesn't matter, and Ninty is just emulating them anyway on VC, but it just feels different. One can't quantify that beyond feelings, though, but there is even more to it than just convenience of playing on your TV in great quality and the authenticity.
It all boils down to this : how much is $10 to you? I'm not rich (though I've been poorer), so I know how much ten bucks is. Ten bucks can feed a family three healthy meals for a day - but it can also buy a medium pizza big enough for two people to eat one meal. Is it wasteful to buy a pizza that will last one meal for a couple of people versus more economic food that could feed your family for a whole day?
I'm at the point where $10 for even a few hours of enjoyment is enough to make it worth it. I've already had that with friends over playing tons of the game - it's been a great buy. Somehow, gathering them around my laptop, or hooking my laptop up to the TV and dicking around with settings and everyone using a different USB controller (what does this button do? oh, on my controller it's over here...), just isn't as fun.
Someday, I'll have a rigged up super-quiet PC running in my living room, streaming all those games that I have ROMS tucked away for. But for right now, it's been worth the fifty bucks or so I've spent on VC games. I absolutely love the fact that I can go from watching TV to within fifteen seconds after deciding to play a VC game I can have it on the screen and be playing all without doing a dang thing.
It's either worth it for you, or it's not. But the way some people talk you'd think VC was the devil itself - newsflash, no one is making you buy the games. If you think people like myself who do buy some games are suckers, then more power to you - I guess ignorance is bliss 'cause I've had a hell of a time playing - and sharing with others - the classic games that I have loved since I was a kid when I got ROB the robot and my NES for the very first time.
Adora
samfish @ Feb 1st 2007 3:37AM
"39. In response to the reply before me, yes, I have played ghost players before, and no, it most decidedly is NOT a big deal. You are bitching for the sake of bitching, and as you probably read in one of these comments, Nintendo can't modify the code to the game, because it then becomes freeware."
No, you fucking ass. First off, that was someone speculating. True or not, I don't know.
What IS true that that the emulator can save the ghost data for you. No modifications to the game itself, dumbass.
And don't tell me I or anyone else is bitching for the sake of bitching, you prick. The only one bitching for the hell of it is you, moron.
Just because there is a sizable number of people let down with the VC so far doesn't mean we should just shut up.
I'm so fucking tired of half wits like you pissing and moaning that if someone doesn't like something, they should just be quiet.
Mikeo @ Feb 1st 2007 3:45AM
Everything on the VC looks lame compared to Geometry Wars Evolved. It's just half-hearted ports.
At least you have 360 and PS3 downloads NOT being a 1:1 copy and throwing in some superb platform adaptions. Nintendo won't- looking at how they half-heartedly supported Gameboy Advance addons, you think it'd be roses all the way? ROFL.
SeriousKriss @ Feb 1st 2007 4:00AM
#1 summed it up pretty weel I think. How come Nintendo is incapable of delivering something at least as good as emulators that have been around for quite some time now?
Burnt Meatloaf @ Feb 1st 2007 4:40AM
LOL at people who keep saying Nintendo's emulators are perfect.
Rubang B @ Feb 1st 2007 5:00AM
Hey did you guys know that I never had a TurboGrafx-16 but with the magic of Wii's Virtual Console I can play 5 player Bomberman '93 for only 6 bucks? It's pretty fucking awesome. Much cheaper than buying a used system and 5 controllers, or even downloading the ROM and an emulator and buying 5 crappy USB "joypads." I'm really glad they didn't update it, because Bomberman '93 is one of the best Bomberman games ever made. It's much better than that Bomberman Act Zero on the 360, which at 34 is the lowest rated X-Box 360 game at Metacritic.
Comparing the VC to XBLA is pretty pointless, since Nintendo has clearly stated a thousand times these games would be unaltered, AND that they'll be releasing a new channel for new games shortly. We can all talk about how much better XBLA is after that channel/service/whatever is launched.
But hey, let's take a vote, how many people here were planning on buying MK64 on the VC, but for some reason haven't gotten around to it in the 65 hours it's been available in North America, but then changed their mind when they found out the ability to save one ghost was missing? You know, I bet you were either A) looking forward to MK64 and already bought it, or B) you didn't care and didn't buy it, or C) you don't have a Wii and you're just scrambling for the tiny anti-Nintendo crumbs lost in the giant ocean of anti-Sony pancakes that has become the entire media.
And for the record, I'd rather play MKDS online anyway. Thank you ladies and gentlemen, goodnight.
crazyrabbits @ Feb 1st 2007 7:39AM
"And don't tell me I or anyone else is bitching for the sake of bitching, you prick. The only one bitching for the hell of it is you, moron.
Just because there is a sizable number of people let down with the VC so far doesn't mean we should just shut up.
I'm so fucking tired of half wits like you pissing and moaning that if someone doesn't like something, they should just be quiet."
Oh, is the little bitch going to cry? You can sit behind a computer, faceless and insignificant, and it doesn't change the fact that you're a pissing and whining fool who seems to be let down with a service that's still in it's infancy. You complain nothing is good enough, when Nintendo even stated the game would be released in it's original state. They even TELL you this before you download it. It's stated right there in the article. So, you can't read, you're too cheap to just be a copy of the game previously viewed on-line or in a store, and you're just trying to insult me to feel superior.
Tell me, what's the weather like up your own ass?
Wolfrider @ Feb 1st 2007 8:30AM
Well there goes my purchase of Mario Kart. Yes, I hardly ever used the ghost tracks but that (and the Moo Moo farm glitch) is still an issue. If Nintendo wants me to plunk down cash for a game that I already own and one that's a decade old, they better damn well make sure it plays flawlessly. Oh well. Saved me 10 bucks.