Virtual Console vigilantes gain ground in Super Mario World
by Ludwig Kietzmann 
{ Feb 5th 2007 at 10:15AM }
If you're the sort of person who leaps out of bed on a Monday morning, filled with the burning desire to rescue something from a perilous situation, you'll likely find today's Virtual Console offerings most satisfying. As of 9AM Pacific Time, you should be able to make your way into the Wii shop and start proving that chivalry is far from dead (but possibly overpriced in some cases).
Princess Toadstool will be requiring your services in Super Mario
Finally, there's Gain Ground (Genesis, $8), a dramatic tale of supercomputers gone rampant and civilians being unjustly imprisoned within war simulations (obviously). It's just as well that you have an AK-toting guy called "Professor" on your side. Presumably, it's expected of us to find and rescue the fourth and still missing Virtual Console game for this week.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Andy Witmyer @ Feb 5th 2007 10:20AM
Super Mario World. Not land. And... awesome!
Zertoss @ Feb 5th 2007 10:20AM
Super Mario Land? That's the old Gameboy game. I think you meant Super Mario World.
jay @ Feb 5th 2007 10:22AM
Super Mario World.
Ludwig Kietzmann @ Feb 5th 2007 10:27AM
D'oh, damn Mario and his geographically inclined game titles! :)
I'm curious -- has anyone here played much of Gain Ground?
JodyAnthony @ Feb 5th 2007 10:28AM
I'll get it out of the way for Fred T, Truth, Flash, et al:
waaah waaaah waaaaah no online play waaah prices are too high waah waaaah i can play them for free on my computer waaaaah waaaah nintendo sucks waaah ripoff waaaaaaah
Derbeste @ Feb 5th 2007 10:29AM
I just have to say...
I can ALWAYS (yes...every time) tell when an article is written by Ludwig half-way through the write up WITHOUT looking at the author. I know because I always find myself smiling as I read.
So while this is a little off topic..
Ludwig, it's great to see you contributing more. You're the best reason to visit Joystiq. Keep up the good work.
As for Mario World...
This will probably be one of the first VC downloads I purchase. Not for me personally, but because everyone in my household has been waiting for it.
Mr BoomStick XL @ Feb 5th 2007 10:30AM
WOW, a NEW (I mean old) mario game two weks in a row. That's GREAT can't wait to get home!!
benjamin @ Feb 5th 2007 10:33AM
Vigilante was a pretty good game, sort of in the style of Streets of Rage.
Despite it being pretty good, it's not $6 good.
Now, if they put up Streets of Rage 3...
Darkness @ Feb 5th 2007 10:36AM
Looks like a good set of games this week. I loved Gain Ground back in the Genesis days and Super Mario World is awesome, too. Gonna be broke this week. :)
Judd @ Feb 5th 2007 10:49AM
And now we have Super Mario Galaxy. What's next Super Mario Intergalactic Space? Or are we going straight to Super Mario Universe? Where do we go from there? Super Mario Alternate Universe?
David @ Feb 5th 2007 10:48AM
A great Mario game, and the sequel is great too.
Dagur @ Feb 5th 2007 10:50AM
Is 4 games a week really too much to ask? In europe we haven't gotten 4 games in one go for weeks. In fact we only got 1 game like twice.
It really brings my piss to a boil
kelekod @ Feb 5th 2007 10:52AM
Damn.. I need 300 points.. only have 500..
I guess I have to go out and find a Wii points card.
C. Grant @ Feb 5th 2007 10:58AM
Jody: Fred T and TRUTH shouldn't be visiting us any longer. Not sure about Flash ... I'll have to investigate ...
Bad Mojo @ Feb 5th 2007 11:00AM
So is Super Mario World 2 player Co-Op (at the same time) or just taking turns? Cuz this could be fun for me and the girl....
Bad Mojo @ Feb 5th 2007 11:01AM
P.S. And still waiting desperately for Streets of Rage (2 or 3) or Battletoads. AWESOME Co-Op :)
Liraco @ Feb 5th 2007 11:02AM
What IS up with the 4th game disappearing? 4 games a week is scarce enough without them taking another away.
I'm really looking forward to more "occult" games that weren't as mass produced for the SNES and a ton of Genesis games as I missed out on most of em.
At least the lineup's stopped being crap.
Tush @ Feb 5th 2007 11:14AM
Bad Mojo,
Super Mario World 2 would be Yoshi's Island. So to answer your question... no.
Derbeste @ Feb 5th 2007 11:06AM
"Fred T and TRUTH shouldn't be visiting us any longer."
Oh?
details?
Myke @ Feb 5th 2007 11:06AM
^^^^ I think you just meant "cult" as in, "really popular but hard to find" as opposed to "occult" which would be a game along the lines of demons and witchcraft...unless I missed the whole line of those that was release for the NES... =)
Charles @ Feb 5th 2007 11:08AM
Bad Mojo - The SNES version was 2p alternating. Now, if only I can convince my fiancee to give it a shot. As it is, she complains that I'm playing Link to the Past over Twilight Princess because of the graphics =[
Anyway, my next hope for VC: TETRIS!
JodyAnthony @ Feb 5th 2007 11:08AM
Mr. Grant, you are my hero.
Gabriel @ Feb 5th 2007 11:17AM
Best. Mario. Ever.
Oh so many afternoons playing this.
Damn you, Wii...
Jusc because i don`t own one...
AStalkingButler @ Feb 5th 2007 2:33PM
Or perhaps "Occult" as in concealed from normal view. Look words up before you jump down from your high horse.
Dan @ Feb 5th 2007 11:38AM
Any chance you guys could put down the price in Wii Points, not in dollars? A lot of people read this site and aren't from the U.S. So saying Mario World is $8 for me, a Canadian, is sadly wrong :( I'd think it's much better just to say '800 Wii Points' (just as Nintendo itself does).
Oh, and SMW is the shizzy!
IslandLife @ Feb 5th 2007 11:21AM
Virtual Console, peeshawww!
I just played this a few days ago on my UNMODDED PS2 fo' free.
Ikitsumatatsu @ Feb 5th 2007 11:28AM
IslandLife, you're so HOT.
Call me.
Karen @ Feb 5th 2007 11:47AM
I agree Super Mario World is the best mario game ever. I'll be downloading it just to have fun trying to beat is again. Out of all the games in my library this game is the one I've spent the most time playing. My SNES controllers are worn out it'll be nice to play this on a new controller.
Jake @ Feb 5th 2007 11:53AM
VC games with no updates, online, changes, etc. are like the game version of cell phone covers. They don't cost more than $0.50 per copy to supply, yet you pay $5-10 for them. Nothing like a 1000-2000% markup.
Not that XBLA or PSN are much better. But, at least there are some updates, online, HD, demos, etc. added to the old games. And, there are new ones as well that cost money to make. With the VC, it is literally just dragging and dropping a file with the code into the VC store. Ding, done. $8, thankseversomuch.
Not trying to troll or diss the almighty Wii or anything. It is just amazing how much money Nintendo is able to make with these VC games without doing hardly any work. I mean, they are running these games with emulation, and the games have existing, known code. It always impresses me when a company is able to make an extreme profit/sale.
They could literally release every game they ever made (as long as they have the legal right) tomorrow if they wanted, sell them for $2 a piece (all platforms) and still make money. Yet, they are letting them out slowly with a monstrous selling price relative to their cost. Yes, it is smart business. Yes, they are taking advantage of their fans. But, if someone is happy to pay $8, then I am nobody to tell them it isn't worth it. I can still laugh at them, though. I know Nintendo sure is, all the way to the bank. :)
I would be curious how many of these they are actually selling, and how much they are making. I'm curious on the XBLA ones as well. From a profit standpoint, Nintendo is probably making way more than XBLA, despite a lower (currently) install base. They put much less work in and charge the same. They can get away with it, though, due to the differences in fanbase, I guess. The only game on arcade that is totally worth it is Geometry Wars, if you're into it. I wouldn't pay anything to play the other arcade stuff, even the new stuff I've never played through. And I sure as hell wouldn't pay for temporary right to the code of something I've already played.
Well, I would pay for mario 64 and mario world, but those are the only two. Well, actually I still have a working SNES with world, but if I didn't I'd be willing. Not $8 of course, out of principle (you can get the cart for less than that), but $3 maybe.
wait in the car @ Feb 5th 2007 12:09PM
I'm just bitter about the screen-scrolling glitch in Military Madness. Unacceptable.
Kane @ Feb 5th 2007 12:14PM
In for Vigilante and maybe SMW, even thought I've played it to death.
Oh, and SMB3 > SMW. GAMING FACT. What's wrong with some of you? Sheesh.
idioteraser @ Feb 5th 2007 12:49PM
"I would be curious how many of these they are actually selling, and how much they are making."
1.5 million vc purchases was the only announcement made so far. Apparently Hudson has pledged massive vc support since their tg-16 titles are selling like hotcakes.
"tomorrow if they wanted, sell them for $2 a piece (all platforms) and still make money"
No they couldn't. Bandwidth costs more then you would think as is setting up the servers etc. Also licensing and royalty fees cost a ton. Also they still have to do coding for perfect emulation.
It takes a lot more time and money then you would think to put a game on the vc. Adding online to a retro game can make the game cost as much as a brand new IP.
Why do you think XBLA takes so frigging long to put up Ms. Pacman with online? Because they have to put in the code and that takes time and money. Hell it likely takes a 100,000 purchases of that game to pay for the recoding cost as well as other expenseses occured.
Sonic @ Feb 5th 2007 6:47PM
Whoever said they'd just get this for their girl is no gamer. To not play this game in its original form all the way through even once is no gamer. Wake up and try to look for quality for once.
McHoffa @ Feb 5th 2007 12:46PM
I have to say that although SMB3 was always my favorite, I am mostly looking forward to SMB2... i didn't own it but always enjoyed the different style of game play that it brought to mario... I will probably buy smb world when I get home tonight though...
SynikaL @ Feb 5th 2007 12:52PM
Ludwing:
I like your writing abilities, I really do, but you're diminshing its novelty. It's getting a bit arrogant and a bit corny, even. How bout' we lighten up on the sarcasm a wee bit every now and again, mmm?
-Kimosabae
samfish @ Feb 5th 2007 12:59PM
Super Mario Bros. 2 was always my favorite Mario game ever, personally. That's the one I'm waiting for.
That said, I'll download SMW. Not tonight, as I recently picked up a handful of Gamecube games on the cheap that I'm enjoying. Plus I haven't even finished aLttP, yet.
Antonio @ Feb 5th 2007 1:02PM
I also prefer SMB3 to SMW. Does anyone else think the well is going to run pretty dry really fast for classic games on the VC? As far as Mario games go we have Mario 2, Mario 3, and Yoshi's Island left. Then with Zelda we only have Zelda 2 and Majora's Mask left. That leaves Metroid, Super Metroid, Star Fox and Star Fox 64 to cover for their respective series. After those we're left with a few selections from other Nintendo games and of course whatever else Sega, Konami, and other 3rd parties are willing to offer up.
Myke @ Feb 5th 2007 1:11PM
Antonio - I don't mean to sound like a prick, but if those 1st party games an "a few select 3rd party games" are the ONLY ones you're looking forward to then you had tunnel vision through most of classic generation or you're not old enough to remember how many amazing games came out for those systems.
SSBR @ Feb 5th 2007 1:13PM
SMW was simply the best Super Mario ever. SM64 was good, but it lacked the simple mechanics that was key in SMW. SMW had it all. Great level design, game play and graphics.
http://www.rolesor.com
Antonio @ Feb 5th 2007 1:17PM
No assure you I grew up during the NES era and am quite familiar with many of the amazing games that came out. (BTW, I forgot to mention Zelda: OoT above for some reason) But how many games are going to have the "OMG MUST D/L NOW!!!" reaction that Zelda:LttP and SMW got? Not too many IMO. It doesn't help that so many of these games have already been rereleased in some form anyway.
Judd @ Feb 5th 2007 1:24PM
I know that every Monday I'm going to see at least one person complain/comment on the price of the VC games. Another thing that I'm likely to see is someone bring up the comparison of how much buying the cart would be. There's just two issues that I can think of though with buying the cart (assuming you can). First if a game offers a save feature then it uses a battery (if it's an old game, newer GBA games don't use this) which can die and then the game won't save any of your precious progress. Second There's the space that all of these carts and systems take up; this is the beauty of the Wii's VC in the fact that the wii has a relatively small footprint on a home entertainment shelf and the VC games don't take up any more physical room(unless you have too many and need to store some on a SD card). That's all I have to say, looking forward to picking up Super Mario World again :).
Myke @ Feb 5th 2007 1:35PM
Antonio - Yeah, I do see where you're coming from. However as a couple people have mentioned, this is basically pure profit for any company that commits to sending these to the VC. I have a couple of games that I'm looking forward to, either because I've lost/broken them since I was young, or because I just never got around to hunting down the original copies. That said, one of the things that I'm most looking forward to is having a game that I didn't even remember, completely blindside me on the VC and bring me back to when I was a kid. I can't wait until a title like "Little Nemo's Dream Land" pops up unexpectedly and gives me a heard attack and has be playing for hours and hours on end, as I'm sure I will. =)
Myke @ Feb 5th 2007 1:37PM
*heart, i'm a moron and it's monday
Striderhayasa @ Feb 5th 2007 1:51PM
@ antonio
Well running dry? No OMG GOTTA HAVE IT FTW! games other than a few?Gee, I don't know about that. The are a crap load of games I want on the VC and we haven't even scratched the surface.
So I guess Crono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Super Battle Toads, TMNT: Turtles in Time, Street Fighter 2: Hyper Fighting, Axelay, Gaires, Shinobi 3, M.U.S.H.A, ThunderForce 3, Mystic Defender, Tetrisphere, Sin and Punishment, Goldeneye (if the game gods allow it), Blaster Master, Batman, Battletoads are all crap and aren't worth the consideration...
That list is off the top of my head. I can think of many more titles I would love to have on VC that you simply can't find without grinding for them or becoming a Ebay stalker.
Skwurl @ Feb 5th 2007 1:59PM
#28
So to sum up, you personally think the Virtual Console is overpriced.
Wasn't that much easier?
syco @ Feb 5th 2007 2:22PM
If you think VC is overpriced... consider what you would need to do to buy the game any other way... You'd either have to find an SNES or spend ~$15 for a used copy of the GBA version... and that one isn't even 480i, while the VC is (generally) 480p.
If you look at it like that it's quite cheap.
Jake @ Feb 5th 2007 2:29PM
@ #32
"No they couldn't. Bandwidth costs more then you would think as is setting up the servers etc. Also licensing and royalty fees cost a ton. Also they still have to do coding for perfect emulation...."
You are wrong, actually. I'll tell you why for each point you made. I understand you are defending Nintendo, though I don't feel like I was attacking them. I guess anything negative seems like an attack on Joystiq.
Royalties: This is your only valid point. I am not sure what royalties cost, but obviously for Super Mario there are no royalties, and they still charge $8. I highly doubt Nintendo is giving Hudson $2-3 a download. I could be wrong though.
Bandwidth: An SNES game only has a max of 4MB. Emulation code may add to that, but 4MB is the most data an SNES cart can technically have. The bandwidth needed for that download is small. It is less than the majority of free videos you download. 1.5 million downloads of, on average, 5MB (just throwin it out there) is not all that much. That is only a total of 7,500Gb. Joystiq probably needs more bandwidth than the VC.
Server costs aren't that huge. Same response as the bandwidth issue.
Emulation coding work doesn't have to be done for each individual game. I think they have a software that is designed to handle anything the original SNES, NES, N64 could. Maybe the N64 games have a little challenge, but not SNES or NES. Just think how many people have built emulators to play every NES and SNES game ever made. They didn't code all 400 NES games in their pirate pack. They made a program that a computer could run that would take the data files from NES/SNES games and play them.
These are dudes with a computer pulling it off and illegally distributing it to the world for free. Nintendo is pulling $5-8 a piece. I would be shocked if it cost them more than $0.75/download to provide them, not counting royalties paid for non-Nintendo owned games. If you think it costs MS or Nintendo or anybody $500,000 to get Pac-man up and running, as you implied, you are lying to yourself.
I know it is hard to swallow. But when Nintendo charges you $8 for super mario world, they are making about $7.25 in profit (before tax). I'm not saying it $8 isn't worth it to people. I'm just saying it is what it is.
Individuals have illegally provided every NES/SNES game ever made for FREE. Don't try to tell me than an SNES game costs Nintendo several dollars per download to provide.
You also claim that adding online to a game costs as much as making a brand new game. Is that your defense for why new/old XBLA games cost the same as old VC games? Making a new XBLA game, with online, demos, HD graphics, etc. costs way, way more than dragging and dropping an NES file onto VC.
Just think for yourself. Nintendo is offering something that dudes with some spare time have put together for free. Sure, most emulators have a lot of bugs, but I've played ones before that seem flawless.
You can get games on XBLA that are 100% original, HD, with online, and a free demo for the same prices as comparable NES or SNES games. Most classic games are better than the original arcade games. But you better bet your arse it is cheaper to offer an old game with zero changes than to make a completely new one. They charge the same. The difference is that Nintendo makes way more profit on their sales.
My guess is that Nintendo just based their prices on the XBLA prices. That way, they still look the same/cheaper, even though they are offering something that costs them less to provide. It is the same way they came about the $250 Wii price. It looks good against the competition, and people are obviously willing to pay it. But, it costs way less to make a Wii than a 360 core.
Heck, everything Nintendo is doing right now is pulling massive profit margins. They are smart and I can't fault them, but they definately get away with higher margins than their competitors. They could offer their products cheaper and still make a lot of money. But, you charge what people are willing to pay, not some automatic margin.
Don't take my post as anti Nintendo. If anything, it is the most ultimate complement I can give any business. They are pulling massive profit margins out of a product with comparitively low risk and investment. They are making mad dough and spending little to get it. That is the ultimate business model.
Though I am somewhat attacking people who pay for this crap. I think you are dumb to pay that much for a game that old. Sorry. I have a 360 and think arcade games are over-priced and not worth it, except one or two. I love Nintendo games. My first system was NES and the first game I ever played was Gyromite. Gaming ever since. But I sure as hell ain't going to pay $5 for Gyromite or Mario or any of that. Partially because I can get the carts used for less and play them on my working stuff. Partially because I have it all on my dreamcast emulator. Partially because I don't have time to play old crap with all the new games I'm trying to get through.
Leshrac @ Feb 5th 2007 2:30PM
#32
Can you elaborate a bit on your sources? I can see perhaps an initial investment into servers, emulator programming, etc, that would cost some money, and certainly the licensing and paying out whatever percentage they do to the 3rd parties counts for something, but it's hard to imagine these games, which, if I'm not mistaken, max out at 8MB so far (unless Mario Kart is 16MB... but pretty sure it's not more than that), cost much to deliver, and certainly don't cost as much as you think on the bandwidth side... there are websites that use a lot more bandwidth with HD movies and whatnot than Nintendo is with their VC store, and they're not charging these kinds of prices.
I also highly doubt that there is much, if any, recoding that is being done to the games to get them working. For instance, Mario Kart doesn't even have the ability to save ghosts because Nintendo refuses to implement some kind of emulated memory pak. I don't know much about the N64 emulation scene, but my guess is that there are already several programs that have figured out how to do this, but Nintendo doesn't even want to take that effort to get it working. What that means to me is that their VC code ran the MK64 code just fine, and that's all that mattered... release the game and time to cash some more checks.
Zoob @ Feb 5th 2007 5:23PM
Jake's writing the great american novel here...
I personally am looking forward to getting SMW, as it's the only mario game I have never completed (my SNES cart went missing soon after I got it and I never bothered to rebuy it).
Jake @ Feb 5th 2007 2:39PM
Syco,
I'll sell you every Topps baseball card ever made for $50. Well, it will be a digital copy and you have to sign an agreement that you will only keep it on your current computer. But, you can print them and play with them/trade them. It would cost you many thousands of dollars otherwise, so I am offering you a sick good deal.
That is an unfair example, I know, but idea is legit. You aren't buying anything but data from Nintendo. You don't own the game, really. At least with a cart, you own it, it is worth probably the same money if you sell it. You can't sell a VC game. You are only buying the right to look at it and play it, but you don't own anything.
#43 Yes, you are right. But if I don't explain anything I didn't add anything to the debate. But yeah, it really comes down to me thinking selling digital copies to old games for $5-10 is too much. And the idiots willing to pay that make it so that people like me who would like to buy the games but would never pay that much for them will never get a chance try them out.
I'll leave now. Sorry I said anything anti-Nintendo/xbox/sony.