Blizzard: consoles soon obsolete, becoming one with PCs

"I know dipshit, but where would you put your mouse and keyboard? Suddenly your computer is useless at everything, now it can only play games! Sounds almost like a console to me."
That is a retarded thing to say. You can have both a controller AND a keyboard plugged in.
If you need full PC functionality, get a bluetooth Kb/M set or this:
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/ultimatekeyboard/default.mspx
Or even get yourself a Wiimote plus some Windows drivers for it you can find with a bit of effort.
"Yes, if you have an HDTV you can put a PC there, but where does that leave the rest of the family when they want to watch TV or play games and daddy needs to prepare a spreadsheet for work (yes, people really do work on their PCs)?"
Umm, I don't see a problem here: you don't really need a gaming rig to do work. A $500 laptop easily has all the required functionality plus the advantage of portability.

Gary, that would depend on how expensive that hypothetical console would be, and if it had Nintendo developed games :

@42 [Umm, I don't see a problem here: you don't really need a gaming rig to do work. A $500 laptop easily has all the required functionality plus the advantage of portability.]

You aren't thinking like your average consumer. Most PC owners don't think in terms of "gaming rigs". They think in terms of PCs and consoles (gaming rigs in their minds). Also, most people don't own multiple PCs. Your solution is basically, "Just buy a second PC". Sorry, that won't fly with most people. So, again, quit thinking like a tech geek/avid gamer and start trying to see it from the perspective of the average console gamer. Those are the people who have to be changed for PCs and consoles to completely merge. We are still a long way from that point, IMO. Hell, I'm an avid gamer (PC, 360, PS3, Wii, PSP x 2, DS x3) and I still keep my PCs in an office upstairs and my consoles in the main entertainment center and have no plans to change that anytime soon.

Autocrawler, the whole point I'm trying to make is that it's hard for a PC to serve as a living room gaming system at the same time as a internet browser/word processor/any application that requires a keyboard and mouse, because

a) A TV in a living room is more often than not multifunctional, if daddy needs the computer to do some work but his kid wants to watch Power Rangers, one of them will be shit out of luck.

b) In most living rooms there is no place for a keyboard or mouse, wireless or not, which would make the PC connected to the living room TV useful for gaming with the Xbox 360 controller only. You can't sit on the couch with a keyboard and mouse on your lap.

One solution is to have another computer, that is only used to do work, browse internet efficiently, etc., but that would defeat the whole purpose of having that functionality on the gaming PC in the living room! And that functionality isn't free; you pay for it. You pay for the OS, you pay for whatever processor power is needed to keep the OS running, you even pay for the freaking mouse and keyboard inputs. What is the convenience of having a PC then? It's upgradeable. Is upgrading a PC user-friendly? Hardly. Who defines the market? Average Joe, and Average Joe doesn't want to open up his computer and move shit around. Why not just buy a console, where you can be sure your games will always work, with no installation needed, and where your gaming system is safe from viruses. Why do you think consoles aren't upgradeable? Because that would make some of the games that require such upgrades unplayable on an un-upgraded system, and Average Joe doesn't like that.

"Also, most people don't own multiple PCs."
A *laptop* is not a desktop PC. Most people I know, even those who can hardly be classified as geeks have both-and both are used for different purposes.
"but that would defeat the whole purpose of having that functionality on the gaming PC in the living room!"
Right, but umm...I thought we were talking about PCs doubling as *entertainment hubs*, not as work computers! The point of having a PC in your living room isn't internet browsing or word processing or whatever: it is gaming, movie/music storage/playback, P2P file exchange, DVR functionality and such. Consoles, being proprietary are greatly limited in all of those aspects.
"TV useful for gaming with the Xbox 360 controller only. You can't sit on the couch with a keyboard and mouse on your lap."
Yes, you can't play games with KB/M controls with this setup. But neither can any console. So I don't really see a problem there.

@48

Well, we'll see. I think you are way out of touch with the average consumer if you think they are going to buy additonal PCs for their entertainment centers. Yes, consoles are purposefully limited in the media capabilities, but this could be change at any time by the manufacturers. This isn't technological limitation.

@ #5

Off topic, but:

Where in the hell did you get 2GB of RAM for $100?
Looks like you could get a 7800 GT for $130 off newegg.com.

@50

I think you misunderstood that comment. The comment is saying that it sounds like Blizzard might be mildly interested producing content for XBLA.

It all depends on how this generation turns out, as the 7th generation of console gaming is going to be a watershed generation

If Wii wins, expect consoles to continue much in the same direction that they have, lower-cost, smooth operation, software friendly, but with a newer, radical control scheme

If 360 wins, expect a convergence of the 2 markets

If PS3 wins, expect console gaming to become less about the games and more about the hardware (i.e. in Sony's ideal world, there would be no console exclusives, just big multimedia platforms that they can sell to people)

The problem is that computers are built around the KB/M combo, not the Xbox 360 controller. You need a KB/M to install the games, to use P2P programs, even to fire up Windows Media Player. Also, how is it harder to play music on your console? I have a computer that I use for work, downloading music, and every single thing a computer can do except gaming, because I have a console in the living room to play games, right where I like them. My console can also play and store music, in case I want it to, what are the advantages of having a PC entertainment hub when you have to get the Bluetooth keyboard and mouse out of the closet to do everything you want to use it for? Computers aren't portable, aren't standardized, aren't easy to get started, are prone to viruses and bugs, and most important of all, aren't living room compatible.

I have both a XBOX 360 and a good PC. I can tell that a lot of new next generation games run much better on the 360. Read the PC reviews of GRAW, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas or Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Double Agent. The PC versions have lots of bugs and slow downs, the console version is much better optimized and offer the better experience. Just compare vanguard and GOW, both used Unreal Engine 3.... PC players are often beta testers and use more of their time to debug games/installation/drivers issues(I know I was one of them). We console gamers put the DVD in play rigth away, please don't tell me the PC is the future....

Slaziman is right, PCs are not living-room compatible.

I have Windows Media Center Edition and a PC remote control, but I still need the KB/M. The remote is extremely limited. I can't turn on or off the PC. The volume control on third party applications doesn't work right (applications have their own volume controls, and Windows has a separate Master volume control). It's really half-assed.

The 360's blades, Wii's Channel interface, and modded XBox software all have smoother control through a remote (or Wiimote) than Windows.

I have both a XBOX 360 and a good PC. I can tell that a lot of new next generation games run much better on the 360. Read the PC reviews of GRAW, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas or Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Double Agent. The PC versions have lots of bugs and slow downs, the console versions are much better optimized and offer the better play experience. Just compare vanguard and GOW, both use Unreal Engine 3, GOW is miles ahead.... PC players are often beta testers and use more of their time to debug games/installation/drivers issues(I know I was one of them). We console gamers put the DVD in play rigth away! Please don't tell me the PC is the future...

"Just compare vanguard and GOW, both use Unreal Engine 3"
Ummm...Vanguard uses Unreal Engine *2*. And is a half assed game anyway.
"Read the PC reviews of GRAW, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas or Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Double Agent."
All of the games you listed were published by Ubisoft. And Ubisoft has a long history of horrible console-to-PC ports.
Now, go and play PC Prey, Oblivion, Condemned et cetera. The PC versions for those are much better.
"PC players are often beta testers and use more of their time to debug games/installation/drivers issues(I know I was one of them). We console gamers put the DVD in play rigth away, please don't tell me the PC is the future...."
Don't blame the developers' lousiness on the platform please.
Also to paraphrase a sentence of yours:
"O noez teh 10 minuts 4 install is t3h h0rror!!!!11!" :P

"The problem is that computers are built around the KB/M combo, not the Xbox 360 controller."
Relinking this again: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/ultimatekeyboard/default.mspx
This is a wireless keyboard *designed* for use as a remote control. It has a built in cursor controls as well-so you don't need a serparate mouse to go with it. There are other keyboards like this one too. I don't see how hard is it to keep one such keyboard near the couch in your living room.
"Also, how is it harder to play music on your console?"
Well, I do have an X360, however it's much easier to keep my 80GB music collection on my hard drive. Then there is the issue of XBox not being able to run ITunes and such.
"Computers aren't portable, aren't standardized, aren't easy to get started, are prone to viruses and bugs, and most important of all, aren't living room compatible"
Most consoles are about as portable as a computer is. Viruses and bugs are overstated as problems.
And speaking about "living room compatibility": oh yes, they most definitely are "compatible". I've been keeping my gaming PC in the living room for the past two and a half years and I haven't had any problems with controls or anything like that whatsoever.
Computers have never been hard to use already, and now, with Vista's release, MS is putting a lot of effort to make PCs even more accessible.
"Yes, consoles are purposefully limited in the media capabilities, but this could be change at any time by the manufacturers."
It won't be changed, just because manufacturers want to retain control of their hardware platforms. Say, Microsoft will never allow the X360s to have additional codecs installed. Or, if it is changed, it'll all be heavily DRM restricted.

If vangard uses Unreal 2, it's worst for the PC side, it's a proven Engine... Condemned, Prey, Oblivion are all examples of great console games and they run better on the 360 than on the majority of PCs (except the very expensive rigs). And again, you insert the DVD and your play. it has nothing to do with lousiness of developers, but the many configurations the PC may have. That is why the consoles have the upper-hande.

If vangard uses Unreal 2, it's worst for the PC side, it's a proven Engine... Condemned, Prey, Oblivion are all examples of great console games and they run better on the 360 than on the majority of PCs (except the very expensive rigs). And again, you insert the DVD and your play. it has nothing to do with lousiness of developers, but the many configurations the PC may have. That is why the consoles have the upper-hande.

In a year a 3D PC cards are obsolete and they are almost as expensive as a console...

I beleive the top of the line consoles are on their last legs because of Vista. As soon as Direct X10 is in full swing in a couple years you will begin to see solid pc game performance and console-like stability. Games will boot off the cd drive and not depend on a huge flawed hard drive install. Also, graphic errors will not crash the game and/or Windows. You can already plug your 360 controllers into your pc with minimal to no conguration to play many games. Gates is a mad genius. He is slowly herding his xbox gamers over to a pc. Listen to Blizzard!

There's got to be some medium between console gaming and pc's. As for media center PC's, they'll be standard in 10-15 whether they're running Windows, some Mac OS or something else. People are already willing to spend money on home theater components- dvd players, dvr's, cable boxes, sling boxes, etc- then can easily be placed within one, nice looking box that rests out of site.

I just bought a new PC. I stripped my old PC and then spent about $300 to turn it into a decent media center. I've got a DVR, can watch and listen to any format (especially anything that's torrented), have a catalog of 1000's of roms plus a choice of keyboard & mouse, remote or control pad. It's networked with my new PC and my laptop so moving stuff around each computer, not to mention portable devices, is a cinch.

This sort of unaformity between devices is what Gates, Jobs and anyone else with an interest in entertainment and hardware is aiming for. Ad to that improvements in online distrubtion and the computer as entertainment hub is a reality right now. The world is just catching up.

The reason this MAY (I'm not saying won't) not work is the same reason it doesn't work now - top game makers choose not to make games for PCs. Perhaps the nature of the market can force their hand in the future, but as long as Nintendo does not make Mario and Zelda for any system outside theirs, they will continue to sell consoles.

#7 NintendoFanbot if you have difficulty with inserting a DVD and hitting next 3 or 4 times to install a game, I think you've got some real problems you need to deal with :/

Your issue with cost doesn't make much sense either. $599 for PS3? $699 to get Xbox 360 to play HD-DVD movies? My PC played DVDs far better than both the PS2 and Xbox, with the PC player costing 30 bucks. I can build you a Crysis ready system for $700 - as well as supplying you with a system that does more than just play games. :/

Also Xbox 360 and PS3 have been technologically inferior for a while now. Nvidia 8800 GTX was released around the same time as the PS3 (RSX = NVIDIA 7800 eewww). Quad core exists - and defeats Xbox 360's processor capabilities.

I can see fighters and RPGs holding a place for consoles - FPS belongs on PC, so does RTS, MMOs and, hell, platforms aren't that difficult on a PC. I see Tekken DR and Virtua Fighter 5 on PS3, as well Final Fantasy 13. Fighters and RPGs covered there. (No DOA is not a fighter, its a tit simulator)

#14 BPM - you do realize that Halo was originally a Mac exclusive right? The original Halo? Then Microsoft's Game Studios came and ate it up for the Xbox. I don't see any reason why a Halo 3,4,5 could not exist on a PC. Halo 1 does and 2 is going Vista from my understanding.

#24 Keeko, I can't see how you went from a PC gamer to a console gamer, it doesn't make much sense. I guess you weren't that great at making a complete PC? I'm running a computer that I created in 2001 - and upgraded again in 2003 (to amd xp 2600+ ati 9800 pro) and have been playing Neverwinter Nights 2, AOE3, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, Gothic 3 and Oblivion. I guess when you know what you're doing you can create a cheap and effective system. You can't just throw money at the problem. Use your fricken brain. I''m updating this computer (the amd 2600+ barton) as of March of this year into a quad-core, SLI system. The first system lasted for how many years? 2001=>2007 (with one upgrade in 2003) so at the most 6 years at the least 4 years. Better graphics and lasts as a long as a typical console. Oh and I can mod and do my HW at the same time! This new PC I'm building is built to last for another 4-> 5 years. When you know what you're doing - when you know how to build a system conscious of bottlenecks - its not very difficult to complete obsolete next gen consoles :/

Oh and I don't think Xbox360 and PS3 can take advantage of the power of Direct X 10, can they? Pixel Shader Model 4.0 here I come...

The power of DirectX 10/Vista come at a price $$$, and will not begin to really show it's value in a year or two, I really hope it has the impact they forecast. For now the graphic showcase game is not a pc game, but a 360 one, GOW. Let's not forget that one of the advantage of DirectX 10 is a unification of the API for all compatible cards (ATI or NVidia will need one set of routine to achieve the same effects), something that a console do not need, since the game is written for a specific hardware.

"For now the graphic showcase game is not a pc game, but a 360 one, GOW."
It's going to change in a month or two with the release of Crysis. Also, it's not that GOW couldn't be made to run on a PC-it was simply a deliberate, financially-based decision by Epic to make it not to. In fact, GOW running on a high-end PC would put the X360 to shame.
"In a year a 3D PC cards are obsolete and they are almost as expensive as a console..."
Not true. Typically PC 3d cards become obsolete in two-three years actually. And again, don't forget that they become "obsolete" only due to the fact that PC games usually push the technological boundaries, not confirm to them as console releases do. PC developers could easily make their games confirm to a strict standard for minimum system requirements so that you could run any game on a five-year-old system. But they don't. And I am thankful for that, because, say, I don't want to wait another 5 years to see a DX10 console game on the XBox720, when I can start getting them in a period of a month or two. Unlike the PC, consoles aren't actually made based on the technical needs of hardcore gamers or serious developers. They are designed based on cost-efficiency principles.
"Condemned, Prey, Oblivion are all examples of great console games and they run better on the 360 than on the majority of PCs (except the very expensive rigs)."
The "very expensive rigs" actually cost about $1200 or even less, if you shop intelligently.
"And again, you insert the DVD and your play. it has nothing to do with lousiness of developers, but the many configurations the PC may have. That is why the consoles have the upper-hande."
I was talking not about that. I was referring to "bugs and glitches and beta testing for end users" in PC games that you mentioned.
Plus again, according to MS, Vista supports streaming installation and such, so I'd say that we'll soon see PC games that'll run instantly the moment you pop the disc in your drive, just like console games do. To be honest, even now, I don't see why people keep complaining about the need to install stuff on your PC. Installation takes less than 10 minutes-it shouldn't bother most people not affected with ADHD, and, well loading assets from your HD is typically much faster than loading stuff from a disc.

Okay Autocrawler, let me break it to you nice and easy, the Average Joe doesn't want your fucking 1200$ gaming rigs, he doesn't want to build his own computer, he doesn't want to check if the game he is buying for his friend is gonna work on his friends PC, and until then there will be console exclusives, which is why we "real gamers" HAVE to use consoles instead of PC's, even if we liked PC's more (I don't, but okay). Maybe if the whole world was a hardcore geek like you that loves to spend fortunes upgrading their PC, then yeah, consoles would be obsolete and we would all be playing Games for Windows, with KB/M or 360 controllers.

Autocrawler wrote:
For now the graphic showcase game is not a pc game, but a 360 one, GOW."
It's going to change in a month or two with the release of Crysis. Also, it's not that GOW couldn't be made to run on a PC-it was simply a deliberate, financially-based decision by Epic to make it not to. In fact, GOW running on a high-end PC would put the X360 to shame..

Your are kidding, aren't you? GOW on PC will run correctly ONLY with very good gaming PC, the rest will have sub-par graphics and lots of slow downs.
When Crysis will be released, the majority of PC's will have a slide show experience and will be the beta testers of the industry. When GOW was released I enjoyed it right away, it's part of the experience that makes consoles so plug & play and enjoyable.

I think he is way off. I've given up on PC gaming (for now at least) and have moved to a console and laptop. I'm tired of sitting at a desk and tired of "Tweaking games" and such.

Console gaming gives you big screen goodness, decent surround sound, and the ability to lay down and play. Sure you can have the same on PC or you can hook your PC to your TV but it is completely impractical to do actual productive work on your TV. I suppose you could have two computers one for gaming and one for working but why?

PC gaming "could" take off if a lot of changes were made to PC upgrades, OS, and compatibility. Most of the benefits of PC gaming are the possibilities with user created content. Right now I can't see the computer becoming ONLY part of the living room. TV's are too far away, not yet accurate enough for detailed graphic work, and if you have a g/f family or whatever you need to fight for time.

#72 FrankieSab - Honestly, if you think GOW is the showcase for graphics, you've been missing out :/

#74 Slaziman - You see the world in black and white don't you? The statements you made were exaggerated and for the most part highly inaccurate. $1200 is not necessary for a gaming rig. Did you read my post? Its #70. I definatly did spend a fortune, I spent on th PC that lasted for 6 years as much as I spent on buying a console and all the 50 dollar games to make any use of it. At least with the PC you can play other games as well.

I highly doubt you can call yourself or anyone you're describing as a REAL gamer from the simple fact you said you don't like PCs. Real gamers, whatecer they are, will most likely be open to both console and PC games (hell maybe even MAC too). I consider myself a real gamer - what do I play?

PC: HL2, Doom 3, GRAW, CS:S, AOE3, Oblivion, GOthic 3, NWN2, NFS: Most Wanted (Carbon is meh), Toribash (you'll never get this on console, beautiful independent game), Rayhound (another independent game), FFXI, Eve Online, and Ultima Online.

Console/Portable: Tekken 5, Tekken DR (PSP), Godhand, FF3 (DS), and FF12 a the moment.

Though I can't be representatives for most gamers, I tend to find PC games to last longer in replayability than console games (aside from fighters). How many times can you play Gears of War?

If you want you can buy a Dell system that equates in performance as my old 2002 amd xp 2600 barton for the price of a Xbox360. Hell this is what you can get at TigerDirect for $579.99 AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ 2.2 Ghz / 1GB DDR / MS XP2 Pro / DVD+-RW 160GB SATA HD - and its prebuilt. Nothing your simple mind has to comprehend or attempt to build. Guess what it gets delivered to you! No more waiting in line for 3 days in shitty weather so you can buy an inferior product! Hoorah!

I hate your average Joe excuses - you generalize people and assume everyone is an idiot. Maybe its just you, don't convey your stupidity on others please. Thanks.

Ok mister geek, I'll just say fuck you and end the argument with that, it's obvious you can't accept reality. Who said I didn't like PC games anyway? I merely said I preferred console games, dipshit. Also way to go, mentioning Gears of War as the representative of all console games, which is conveniently a short game. Way to go man.

77:
GOW has amazing graphics, Epic's Unreal 3 engine is by far the engine to beat. If you can't even admit it means you are not very objective.
I used to be a PC gamer (since the begining of the PC era), I am no more, I have a laptop and play games on consoles, I don't feel less a gamer for that. Nowadays the consoles game library offers all the type of games I enjoy. I am also playing Oblivion (I have my 1000 points), GRAW, NFS Most Wanted, out taste are not that different... I play on my couch using my 46' HD TV and a very good 5.1 system, I really do not envy the PC game world.

#74 Slaziman - "which is why we "real gamers" HAVE to use consoles instead of PC's, even if we liked PC's more (I don't, but okay)."

Apparently you said it.

#72 FrankieSub - "For now the graphic showcase game is not a pc game, but a 360 one, GOW."


Nope, once again Slaziman, I didn't say it, Frankiesub did. I was merely quoting him. You need to work on that reading comprehension :/

I did not say it was the greatest game of all times (it's not relevant to this blog), I just said the obvious, it's a graphic showcase for PCs and consoles alike...

jmf what the fuck are you talking about? Did you say this or not?

"Though I can't be representatives for most gamers, I tend to find PC games to last longer in replayability than console games (aside from fighters). >How many times can you play Gears of War?MORE

(Damn got cut off... wtf?)

jmf what the fuck are you talking about? Did you say this or not?

"Though I can't be representatives for most gamers, I tend to find PC games to last longer in replayability than console games (aside from fighters). ****How many times can you play Gears of War?****"

Hence I said you shouldn't measure console games' replayability based on what is a short game.

I said "if we liked PC's *****MORE*****", which means I like console games MORE, does that mean that I don't like PC games AT ALL? Please learn what the word MORE means.

You are the one that has to work on reading comprehension buddy :/

I like your stars.

80. #74 Slaziman - "which is why we "real gamers" HAVE to use consoles instead of PC's, even if we liked PC's more *******(I don't, but okay)."*******

Whatever you meant by this, I don't really care, other than that the statement you made that "real gamers" are forced to play on the console than on the PC is ridiculous. I play both. I'm sure many do as well. I think this whole discussion has worn away its interest. IBM, a computer company you may have heard of, pretty much had their hand in creating all the processors for all the consoles out this gen, including Wii. So the idea that consoles and computers are becoming one will just become a matter of definition. Eventually it will be difficult to distinguish a console from a PC - especially with consoles featuring Operating Systems, browsers and the like. Many call the PS3 a mini-supercomputer. Xbox 360 is barely a console. I guess if I stuck a big green X on my PC and used a USB controller while I played Halo: Combat Evolved - that would be a console as well? I'll be building an Xbox 540 in March, that should be fun.

#83. Though ******I can't be representative****** for most gamers, I ***tend*** to find PC games to last longer..."

I gave you a list of games that ***I*** play. For the most part from my experience, the games that have replayability tend to be on ***my*** PC - I've listed them, you can check them out! They are fun I promise. I'm not saying consoles don't - Tekken is a great example of replayability - that game can never get old (unless you get your butt whipped constantly :/ )

James - I guess its different for different people. I actually enjoy tweaking games. Probably weird to you right? I love getting my hands in that .ini and changing values, love seeing the differences that I can have on a game. Part of the appeal to a PC game is that I can make it look better than it is. I'm actually disappointed when I can't figure out how to change settings in a game. I do this for console too, I always go to options first and check what variables I can modify. Though of course much limited there. I guess that the "geek" in me as Slaziman so eloquently put it.