Excellent. Let the threats and cries of betrayal begin.

Wonder how long it takes before it can be flashed for backups?

Hopefully never. Backups are piracy. Piracy is for cheap ass gamers who can't be bothered to support the industry that they take for granted or people who expect everything to be free for them.

But wait! I need a back up! Actually you don't. But 99% of the people who 'back up' for emergency purposes, seem to find it neccessary to start backing up games they have rented at Blockbuster or wherever. It's what they call a gateway drug. Once you start backing up. You just don't seem to stop.

I don't know if this is strange or not, but I find myself turning up the volume on my sound system to combat the noise of my launch 360. What is even more odd is the fact that it really bothers me that it is so damn loud! When I first got it I thought it was broken, but I came to find out that that is the normal operation.

90%, eh? Where'd you get your statistics? You shouldn't be made to feel like a criminal for backing up your media. You paid for it--and it was damn expensive. You deserve to be able to back it up.

Hey, nothing wrong with cheap ass gamers!

http://www.cheapassgamers.com/

"and all of a sudden our old-model 360 (which is gonna need a clever nickname) will be looking less like the firstborn and more like a redheaded stepchild."

Way to put a negative spin on the article. Every console has revisions. The PS2 has so many revisions that I cannot even count them using all of my fingers and toes. The Xbox 1 had at least 5 or more revisions. How many people would rather the company NOT put any effort into refining a product?

I just hate when people try to inject negativity into a positive topic. I fully support any company who continues to refine their products.

Maybe a nickname that makes sense, unlike the old, fat Xbox controller named "Duke." I'm sorry, I just don't know any old, fat guys named Duke...

So how exactly do you tell what drive you are getting when you're at the store? Anyone know what numbers to look for, or is there no way to tell?

So how exactly do you tell what drive you are getting when you're at the store? Anyone know what numbers to look for, or is there no way to tell?

Also - doesn't the thread say these have been in production since November '06?

#2,5: Uh. No, you don't. You agreed to the end user agreement by playing the game in the first place. You are NOT allowed to back-up. There is no "right" to back up except in your mind. It doesn't matter how hard you believe it. You still agreed to not back it up. It says on the disk DO NOT COPY. NOTHING you can do now would make you right. The sooner you admit you are wrong, the sooner we can get back on topic. Unless admitting you are wrong would cause you to spontaneously explode...in which case, one less whiny know-it-all jackass to cut down to a less arrogant, self-important size.

Back on topic.

I'm hoping my 360 bites the dust. Then, I can trade it back in on my replacement plan. I have til December 07 for that to happen. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

What gives them the right to tell us we can't make backups of our games?

See, thats why I haven't got a 360 yet. Oh yeah, and I dont have an
HDTV or enough money to spend £10 extra per game.

mine was manufactured in 12/05. it's not THAT loud where i have to turn up the volume to drown it out. but i've kind of grown fond the sound it does have. let's me know if the disc has frozen, which i guess can be a bad thing. ya know, since it does tend to freeze sometimes. but i love my 360. my wii doesn't let me know when the disc has frozen.


BTW, that was a joke in case you're one of those people who like to flame for no reason. MUST GET ON INTERNET.....MUST START ARGUEMENT!!!

Yeah, my 360 doesn't read discs when it's starting vertical, and when it's laying flat it has a long delay between reading the disc and what's actually happening... Like a lot of the time when playing Viva Pinata, I'll get a message saying a fight is about to break out, after the fight has already ended and all the chocolate innards have been eaten.

I got a PSP from Best Buy, am hoping for my 360 to hold up until a stronger remodel is out. If I get a new CPU, new optical drive, then I'm happy as pig in shit.

As for HDMI, don't really care. Have the VGA hook up so I can upscale my DVDs.

It's legal to back up your games...

You pay for the rights to use the data (your $60), not for the physical disc. You basically just license the game (hence having to pay extra via marketplace to further unlock data already included on your disc).

It's illegal to distribute or share those back ups though...

Then again, according to the NFL it was illegal to watch the Superbowl on a TV over 55" with friends, regardless of making them pay. It's a crazy world.

If only I'd have waited 2 weeks.

BTW, these drives are just E-IDE drives, right? Couldn't we just swap the drive out ourselves?

Not another "backing up leads to piracy" arguement.

Tell you what. Find me a place where I can get cheap copies of Lunar, Popful Mail, Snatcher, and Panzer Dragoon Saga in case my current mint copies break, and I'll quit playing their backups. Kthanx!

ShadowHawk01: "The PS2 has so many revisions that I cannot even count them using all of my fingers and toes." Exactly! And it looks like a redheaded stepchild to me too! :) If the post were "negative" we wouldn't care about a revision at all, no? I'm all about them improving the product, but I'd be dishonest if I didn't say I'm going to covet the new version. Heck, it'll take a lot more than that to get me to upgrade. I've still got my original PS2 and DS Phat.

Je2037: "Also - doesn't the thread say these have been in production since November '06?" Yeah, so does our post! Of course, MS has multiple production lines, so not every recent 360 has a new drive.

Uh, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong. I'll tell you what, I'll admit I'm wrong if you admit you're 35 years old and live in your mother's basement.

Games are $60--and there's nothing wrong with backing up an expensive piece of software I paid for. Just because corporations have the ear of legislators doesn't mean that I'm willing to take it in the ass. If you want to tow the corporate line, that's your business; in the meantime, I will continue to backup my games--and there's nothing you can do to stop me. Chew on that.

Ethically, there's no argument in the world that could justify not being able to have a back-up copy of your own game...
Now is there?
Didn't think so.

@16

It's not legal at all. There's this little law in the US called the DMCA which makes it illegal to circumvent any copy protection. It's a shitty law, but it's still the law regardless of what your personal opinion on it is.

Sweet. I knew I waited for a reason. So quiet DVD drive + more storage = my finally buying one. A price drop would be nice too.

Yea sorry there grant, I realized that shortly after.

People People! Don't you see?

If we make copied disks illegal, then only criminals will have them!.........................wait.

@Christopher7xii
And how many disks do you damage? Unless you have kids, there's no reason you can't take proper care of your game disks.

A huge reason to buy a 360 is that you can make backups of your games, unlike the PS3. Why just yesterday I made a backup of a game I was thinking about renting to try out in case it was worth buying... and uh, funny how that never works out.
/just kidding!

"What gives them the right to tell us we can't make backups of our games?"

Umm. They made it?
They sell it on their terms.
If you don't like their terms, don't get it. Until the moment you buy it, they can do whatever they want with it because it is theirs. When you buy it, you agree to certain terms that they set down, like not being allowed to copy. If you don't agree with those terms, go somewhere else. Get someone else's game. You have to decide if the "need" for that particular game outweighs any disagreement you have with their terms.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but they mde the product. They set the terms and you decide to agree or disagree. Take it or leave it. They don't offer a middle ground and they don't have to.

@Edge of Blade & Matt

Believe it or not, the USA is not the only country in the world with people that read Joystiq and play video games. I know in my country it has proven to be quite legal to make backups of games, movies, and anything else for personal use. We do not have the DMCA and do not need to abide by it, regardless of what the disc itself or EULA says.

To people who "back up" your games... just how many disks do you damage? Unless you have kids, then there's no reason you can't take proper care of your disks.

@Calviin

Wrong. Your legal rights cannot be limited by any EULA. In my country, I have the right to make backup copies, and regardless of what the EULA says, I still do. It all has to do with the laws of your country, not the EULA.

AirIntake: lucky ;)

Calvin, before I buy any game, I write on each dollar bill I hand the clerk, the following statement, "By accepting this currency, you agree that the Terms of Agreement of the packaged items being purchased are null and void." It's in Gamestop's hands now, dude.

And for the record I don't back up games even though I could legally. What I do back up is CD's, because I travel on gravel roads often, and with the bumps and jolts, I can easily wreck a CD in a month or two. I just rip the CD to 320kbps MP3s and then make discs from there, and when they get wrecked, I toss them out the window. My original CDs have only ever been in a disc drive once.

@Dave

Good one! :)

Probably just as legally binding as an EULA too!

Good, but I'll have to admit that I am a masters student in business school, I've studied contract law, and I'm 23.

Second, you are talking about wrong and right. I'm talking about legal, and unless you want to claim a higher power that blesses your backing up...a god of gaming if you will, besides yourself...then you answer to no higher power than the law under which you live.

Once again, no matter how much you want to be right, you are wrong. The effort you put into being right is multiplied by zero. This is not an existential discussion. This is not an ethical discussion (and you don't want to make it one). This is a legal discussion. It's been decided for you.

Intake: Ok, I concede YOUR point because you have one. I'll go so far as to say that Microsoft isn't going to help you make backups though, since the console is from an American company.

And don't litter. :-)

Digital Millenium Copyright Act. I did QA for the Charter Cable Internet Security Team. People would just not understand the legalities of downloading content. "But I get HBO, why can't I DL Sopranos..." Blah blah blah. Its called the few ruining it for the many. If that was all people were doing was copying already purchased content then sure wouldn't be a problem but lots of people out there try to make money off that capability. Money that would normally go into the company that actually owns the rights to sell and distribute. And even giving it away for free is theft of potential DVD sales that would not only go to the wealthy individuals involved but also to those not so wealthy involved with the process.

OH! Well, I never said it was legal. I just said you shouldn't be made to feel like a criminal for doing it. So, I guess that makes your assertion that I'm "wrong" an philosophical argument.

Sorry Dave, Gamestop has no power to invalidate that agreement. But you know that. You are just being a jackass.

"Well, I never said it was legal. I just said you shouldn't be made to feel like a criminal for doing it."

I'm sorry you feel guilty. Really I am.

Oh, Blade. I so don't believe you're 23.

Wasn't there a court case last year or maybe in 2005 that determined that making personal backups didn't violate the DMCA?

I mean, since we're buying the right to play the game and not a physical copy of the game (according to the EULA), then it shouldn't matter if we're playing on the original disc or a backup copy.

Your loss Dave.

While you are doubting me, check www.loadingreality.com. We don't have any ads so you don't have to feel guilty for giving me money.

Look for the poster "Jason". My picture is on the link at the bottom of all my posts. And then come back here and tell me how much like a dork I look. :-)

#11, Um, actually, you are allowed to make a copy for personal use. That's copyright law.

If you've ever read a contract (employment contract, EULA, etc.), you'll notice there is always a clause near the bottom that states that is any portion of the contract is unenforceable, only that portion is voided and not the whole contract.

You see, contracts are written to be scary more than they are written to be legally binding. You can never sign away a legal right. This is why individuals who agree not to hold a party unaccountable can then turn around and sue.

It is always hilarious when people argue against the law using personal, ethical beliefs. It is the law. The man owns you. Go along with it, or break the law and take the associated risk. But don't argue something isn't illegal because it's just not right, or it is in another country.

Basically, you can't back up your games because if you could every pirater would have an easy out. There are a lot of laws that are made with some alterior motive such as this. The government and game industry probably wouldn't really care if everyone was just making personal backups. But a lot of people are pirating by making lots and lots of personal backups and spreading them all around to be extra, extra safe to protect their investment.

It is one of the reasons medicinal weed was outlawed. The government was too afraid of the loopholes created for standard offenders. That, and the whole drug-companies can't charge you for a weed you can grow easily thing.

It's not that it's ok to have backups in some cases, which it is. It's that you agreed by accepting a binding EULA not to copy them for backups.

You don't look like a dork at all. You're actually a pretty cute chick.

Thanks man. You made me laugh.