Oblivion: Downgraded for PS3, not happening on Wii [update 1]
by Jared Rea 
{ Feb 10th 2007 at 11:30AM }
When we learned that the PS3 version of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion would not feature the majority of downloadable content found on the Xbox 360 and PC versions of the game, it was a blow to fans of horse armor everywhere. An episode of The 1UP Show (02/02) provides the follow-up hook as 1UP relays a juicy bit of info from Bethesda. As it turns out, it may be due to a memory limitation with the Playstation 3 itself.1UP says that Bethesda simply could not find a way to load every piece of downloadable content without affecting the performance of the game. Considering that the Xbox 360 can pull off this feat without a hitch, that seems quite odd. Bethesda will still be looking into getting that content available for PS3 users, as addressed by their VP of Marketing, Peter Hines, who also comments on the "rumors" regarding the memory issue in an IGN interview.
As for the PS3 version of Oblivion trumping the 360 in the visuals department, it just so happens that the new shader techniques applied to the PS3 will also be worked into the 360 version of the game. And thus, they are equals once more. Unless you want some horse armor. In which case, you're boned.
Finally, Shacknews sat down with Pete Hines and questioned their plans beyond the PC, PS3 and Xbox 360. When it comes to waggling your remote in Oblivion, "It's not really going to run on a Wii for example, but if it could we would put it there. Our philosophy is to make a game and make it available to as many people as possible."
Read - The 1UP Show, Oblivion Expansion Preview (9:40)
Read - IGN Interview with Pete Hines
Read - Shacknews, Interview with Pete Hines
[Update - We swapped out the Mark Rein quote with the more recent IGN interview to pull the feedback away from gritty, armchair analysis of tech specs and back into the content involved. Cleaned up some wording to not sound so definitive on a complex and unresolved issue. Thanks!]
[Thanks, Stephen!]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Foil_Goon @ Feb 10th 2007 11:34AM
It doesn't matter, Oblivion sucks either way, no matter what system. ES3 4LYFE.
Chris @ Feb 10th 2007 11:39AM
I guess we now know why it loads faster on the PS3....
Rye @ Feb 10th 2007 11:40AM
ign has actually posted something thats exactly the opposite of what joystiq is saying.....
check out the link:
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/762/762882p1.html
jaysins @ Feb 10th 2007 11:40AM
Flamers, start your engines.
kelekod @ Feb 10th 2007 11:40AM
So they wish to tap an install base of about 1 million (WAG) [PS3] instead of an install base of 4+ million (Wii). Well I guess the Wii is too good for them.
Chris @ Feb 10th 2007 11:52AM
Fanboys of the word, unite! Now's your chance to emerge from the darkness of your parent's basements, and complain about: A) press bias against the PS3, B) press bias against the Xbox 360
Arno @ Feb 10th 2007 11:43AM
#5, no it's not good enough as he said. Gamecube 1.5 vs PS3?
Bangbang... @ Feb 10th 2007 11:45AM
To save time, i will provide the SDF all of the bullets they can use to shake this bit of negative news:
IGN is bitter at sony for dropping OPM, Joystiq is hates Sony because Bill Gates pays their bills and buys them hookers, and Bethesda is too lazy to unlock the power of the ps3 by cacheing to or installing a portion of the game on the harddrive.
I will also provide the 360 and wii fanboys with the appropriate response:
Im not listening, la la la la la la la la.
wii fanboys may add that the author hates nintendo.
Bangbang... @ Feb 10th 2007 11:47AM
*My bad, I mean 1up not ign.
NintendoFanbot @ Feb 10th 2007 11:50AM
Now, in the defense of PS3, is this a product of lame direct porting, or the more legitimate claim of having trouble building it from scratch for PS3?
I say let them do what they want. If they can make an Elder Scrolls game for N-Gage, maybe they'll get around to Wii or even DS (though not hoping for an N-Gage port). Or am I hoping for too much? :P
KVN @ Feb 10th 2007 11:54AM
@5 No it's because the wii can't handle a game like oblivion.Bethesda would have to do some serious downgrading to make it work.It makes more sense for them to port it over to the ps3 for now.
KLogue @ Feb 10th 2007 11:56AM
I thought people had stopped paying any attention to 1up after after the whole Neverwinter Nights 2 fiasco.
bear attack @ Feb 10th 2007 11:57AM
PS3 is next-gen, well worth it.
OTAM @ Feb 10th 2007 11:57AM
Please do not pass go,please do not collect $599 US DOLLARS.
Justafan @ Feb 10th 2007 11:58AM
Memory limitations? Umm... Blu-Ray? Wasn't that the point in having that in the PS3, so it had more space for developers to fill? Bizarre.
Charl3z523 @ Feb 10th 2007 11:58AM
Wow... I've heard rumors about how pathetic and biased joystiq is and the first time I visit the site I see this article... You guys can't even deliver true news, what kind of site is this?
Devise @ Feb 10th 2007 12:10PM
Not happening on the Wii but there's going to be a PSP version? Go figure.
Anyway, PS3 gamers enjoy our 360 sloppy seconds. Bring on the expansion.
DeFrank @ Feb 10th 2007 7:19PM
@#16
You are an idiot.
Goober @ Feb 10th 2007 12:10PM
RE #12 "I thought people had stopped paying any attention to 1up after after the whole Neverwinter Nights 2 fiasco."
Some of us give 1Up a lot of credit for what they did. They admitted a mistake and pulled a review that they didn't feel best server their readers. It took a lot of balls to admit a mistake. Not many other publications would do that.
Arno @ Feb 10th 2007 12:10PM
PS3 FTL!
madgamer @ Feb 10th 2007 12:11PM
Ok, how exactly can they put the game on the PSP then if the Wii can't run the game? I guess the PSP version might be using a totally different engine altogether..
Pyronite @ Feb 10th 2007 12:12PM
This just in! News is only news if it doesn't offend a fanboy on either side.
Everyone bitches about that sort of political correctness yet they can't even take it with VIDEO GAME NEWS. What thick skin we all have.
a.j. @ Feb 10th 2007 12:14PM
Play Virtua Figther 5 on the PS3 (which I'm doing as you read this) and tell me about limitations. What's that Xbots? Oh you can't...not for a few months. When everyone starts seeing what the PS3 is capable of (VF5 an early example), you'll see that the field isn't as sloped as you think.
why not the LS2/LS7? @ Feb 10th 2007 12:14PM
Downloadable content won't work because of memory limitations?
And yet Shivering Isles will be made available for PS3 as a downloadable expansion.
Is it that difficult to see through the bull before repeating it?
This article doesn't need any SDF. When the downloadable content starts showing up for Oblivion for PS3, as Bethesda has already said, this article will have been refuted automatically.
Methane47 @ Feb 10th 2007 12:16PM
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/762/762882p1.html
Is joystiq going to correct this blog? cuz its just wrong.
again. http://ps3.ign.com/articles/762/762882p1.html
brandon @ Feb 10th 2007 12:18PM
I wouldn't want Oblivion on the Wii anyway. The controls really wouldn't help the game at all because the fighting is rather limited in the game. Sure it's better than Morrowind, but this game is more about exploration than action. Can't wait for the update shaders in the game for 360, hope it's free.
As for the PS3, I can't lie and say this didn't make me happy, but that's more tied to the fact that I already own the game and didn't want a superior version released after I had already bought it. I hate that!
pocketpal @ Feb 10th 2007 12:19PM
Those darn kitty pictures always make me snicker.
Jonah Falcon @ Feb 10th 2007 12:25PM
Keep mentioning the horse armor. (rolling eyes) How about not being able to add map content (ie. Mehrune's Razor was a free download).
Brian @ Feb 10th 2007 12:26PM
Wait, how are they going to implement the new shaders into the 360 version of the game? A patch?
kelekod @ Feb 10th 2007 12:30PM
I guess Sony should have done a PS2.5. Woulda had a bigger install base.
@6, 11
Doesn't bother me much, but when companies want to make some extra bucks it usually makes sense on a platform with a big install base. I actually could care less about this game.
I picked up Warioware yesterday and it was a very interesting experience I must say. One of the best games the Wii has to offer.
icruise @ Feb 10th 2007 12:32PM
Seeing as IGN has totally refuted the idea that this is due to some sort of technical limitation, don't you think it might be a good idea to do a retraction, Joystiq?
gott @ Feb 10th 2007 12:41PM
HAHA AJ #22
You aren't talking about a game that is out for the ps3 that isn't out for the 360 yet are you? What is that? The only one?
How many games are out or coming out for the 360 but not for a few months on the ps3? At lease 3-4 i can think of off the top of my head. R6, Obliv, GRAW2...and there are more...
It's ok if you are jealous that ps3 is losing exclusives to MS all the time...So funny. I laugh about it every few weeks when i read about another game jumping ship to the 360. Come on over VF,Assassin Creed,Resident evil, bladestorm, fatal inertia, GTA....hahaha
LOSER
polly @ Feb 10th 2007 12:32PM
@15, I think if they put all the the extra content onto the game in the first place they'd probably have to charge you over $80 for the PS3 version as I don't see them really wanting to just give it away for free. That in turn might hurt sales of the game, but I would think it's definitely possible.
Aradayn @ Feb 10th 2007 12:39PM
I am the farthest thing from a PS3 fanboy: I own a Wii and a 360. This post is horribly biased and blatantly technically inaccurate.
There are three types of "memory" on a game system. In order of access speed, there's the disk (DVD or Blu-Ray), the permanent storage (Flash Memory or hard disk), and the temporary storage ( RAM ).
Just like a PC, the only memory fast enough to actually run a game from is the RAM. Coincidentally, the PS3 and 360 have the same amount of RAM, 512 MB. With the PS3, the main memory is divided in half, half for the graphics and half for the game. The 360 also has to use a portion of its RAM for graphics, but it's more flexible about how much you want to use.
Any game has to load content from the disk to the RAM ( this is mostly what's happening when the game says "loading" ) Sometimes games put content on the hard disk to speed up future loading times. This can make loads so short as to be unnoticeable. But every game has to reside in the RAM in the end.
Do the math! If the 360 has only 512 MB of RAM, there's no way that Oblivion, being on a DVD, can all fit in the RAM at once! Obviously, only parts are loaded at a time. This is why the game pauses for "loading" sometimes when you're running around in the 360 version.
This is also why saying that downloadable content was cut because of "memory limitations" is preposterous.
If you download a dungeon, it's not going to actually be loaded into main memory until you venture to the area where the dungeon resides. If the game runs at all, it'll load the new DLC area just like any other area. It's not like DLC is somehow special and takes up more space than any other dungeon. And since it must be loaded the the permanent storage, it'll actually load faster!
If you download a weapon, it won't be visible until you equip or drop it. Sure, you could fill the screen with new weapons or items and run the game out of memory, but this is already true with the old weapons, if you try that hard to get lots of them in one place.
Realality @ Feb 10th 2007 12:47PM
I'm no sure if Sony's supporters are in denial or if thier bitter.I know it's rare for a Sony product to be getting alot of bad press. Please lets stop making excuses for Sony. The reality of matter is that PlayStation 3 just doesn't knock the socks of the competition this generation as of yet. It's funny to hear when people make claims of a company paying off media. If you have been paying attention we all know what Company was taken to court and sued for paying critics to give their movie a good review.
What happened with Enchant Arms it was supposed to be enhanced on playstation 3? Games make your console not power!"
check out the review here http://www.gamebrink.com/playstation-3/1925-Enchant_Arm-reviews.html
mushiking @ Feb 10th 2007 12:46PM
@34
actually you are, cause it's already been proven this news is inaccurate.
Roflmon @ Feb 10th 2007 12:49PM
I bet it's memory requirements. Oblivion for PC uses a lot of memory and horsepower, something the Wii was never intended to be. Don't let it discourage you though, buy a Bluetooth dongle and set up a GlovePie script and you're ready to go a swingin'.
ben @ Feb 10th 2007 12:50PM
15, 23
The people at 1UP are talking about SYSTEM MEMORY. As in RAM. Not disc space or HDD space. The Xbox 360 has 512MB of shared system/video memory and the PS3 has 256MB of system memory and 256MB of video memory. The issue here is that each piece of downloadable content (like horse armor), must be loaded into the system memory. For the PS3, for whatever reason, there is not enough system memory to do this and keep the game running at a solid framerate. Consequently, the PS3 may have slightly better textures and visuals because there are a full 256MB alloted to video processing and the memory doesn't have be to shared like it is on the 360.
As for the load times, that probably has something to do with the PS3's HDD. Parts of the game are "installed" on the PS3 HDD making load times faster. This is impossible on the 360 because Bethesda has to program for the Core units too.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm just trying to explain why there are differences between the two versions of the game.
Ben @ Feb 10th 2007 12:51PM
EDIT: Damn, a few people beat me to the punch. Oh well.
Realality @ Feb 10th 2007 12:55PM
I'm not sure if Sony's supporters are in denial or if thier bitter.I know it's rare for a Sony product to be getting alot of bad press. Please lets stop making excuses for Sony. The reality of matter is that PlayStation 3 just doesn't knock the socks off the competition this generation as of yet. It's funny to hear when people make claims of a company paying off media. If you have been paying attention we all know what Company was taken to court and sued for paying critics to give their movie a good review.
What happened with Enchant Arms it was supposed to be enhanced on playstation 3? Games make your console not power!"
check out the review here
Matthew Walsh @ Feb 10th 2007 1:07PM
@15
Memory Limitations refers to RAM, not disc space. If you think they're interchangable you're very wrong.
I've heard a lot of rubbish both ways on this Oblivion thing. So what do we know as fact?
1)
a> The PS3 memory architecture is less flexible than the 360's. It's very slow to grab data from RSX's RAM for the Cell to use, though the penalty is less [but present] for RSX grabbing data from Cell's RAM.
b> The PS3 operating system uses a lot more RAM than the 360's. 64Mb from Cell, 32Mb from RSX, 96Mb in total we're told.
2)
a>The RSX cannot apply Anti-Aliasing [AA] and regular High Dynamic Range [HDR] effects at the same time.
b> The only process that enables HDR and AA to be used together [NAO32] would likely require substantial reengineering of the game engine.
c> The 360 has "free" AA via its Xenos daughter-chip.
d> The shots so far of PS3 Oblivion seem to be aliased and lacking HDR. Therefore I think we can assume that at least one of these will be absent.
So we can assume that reduced memory *IS* an issue if the game used as much as it could on 360, and that HDR/AA *IS* also going to be an issue for Bethesda.
TopaZ @ Feb 10th 2007 1:07PM
My PC has enough memory, and it looks better than both of these consoles. Wootles
sheppy @ Feb 10th 2007 1:09PM
Okay... so now we have two completely different stories on why the upgrades are not in the initial release (although Bethesda has repeated stated that the downloadable content, as well as Shivering Isles, will be made available at a later date)
On one hand, this one. We have System memory limitations. This one is funny to me because, as someone else said, you don't load an entire game into the system memory. You load it as it's encountered. There is the initial load but personally, if Shimmering Isles is confirmed to work, why are the other areas suddenly impossible? I smell a Playstation Store...
On the other hand, the one which makes more sense given Bethesda's treatment of the game thus far, is the IGN interview, straight from the horses mouth. That somehow, having this content from the get go would create a gaming imbalance. They are looking into DL content on the Playstation store but as we all know, free networks tend to be inferior than pay networks. Regardless, there is money to be made and microtransactions will not be removed from PS3 games.
Right now, Bethesda pretty much needs a reasonable excuse as to why that stuff is not on the disc.
Personally, I hated Oblivion regardless of where it fell so....
Cry Havoc @ Feb 10th 2007 1:14PM
Looks like developers are already pushing the limits of what "nex-gen" systems can do.
It's humorous that these systems that have been bandied about as being top of the line for the next 10 years have the same amount of dedicated video RAM... As my laptop. That I purchased prior to the PS3 launch. Which runs Oblivion just wickedly awesome.
There are already laptops with 1 GB of vid ram. This gen might be the one that truly humbles the consoles.
Don't get me wrong, I love Wii, and I'm planning to pick up a 360 or Ps3, depending on who gets the exclusives. But whoever thinks the "graphics race" will continue past another 6 months is not aware of how powerful the latest Nvidia chipset is.
Matthew Walsh @ Feb 10th 2007 1:19PM
@43
Well the game was designed to scale with hardware true; but I'd imagine the developers were aiming to at least match the 360's look and performance. Efficiencies can be made over time... but on a game like Oblivion memory really IS king.
apoc06 @ Feb 10th 2007 1:22PM
Looks like my original post was deleted. Fair enough, I guess. I guess it could be considered offensive now that I look back. I offer my apologies. However, if you have the time to watch and remove commentary I would assume that you can update the story with the rebuttal to the rumor with the actual official statement from Bethesda that was made to IGN.
--
Considering that Oblivion without horse armor and immediate access to additional downloadable content is still an upgrade to the out of the box copy of Oblivion for the Xbox360 you could walk into a store and buy today. It contains the expansion pack and updated graphics engine. It is also optimized for faster load times and the PS3s cell processor. The game is upgraded from its original form no matter how you color it.
bandit @ Feb 10th 2007 1:38PM
THANK YOU MATTHEW WALSH!!! for being the only one so far in this post with some SENSE!!!!!!!!
Most people will skip over it and voice their opinion rather than actually READING FACTS!!!
The only point I'd like to make is it has FAR less to do with the RAM space available and a hell of alot more to do with the RAM bandwidth. Thats the real memory limitations Bethesda is talking about. The PS3 do it its design is forced to use the system RAM bandwidth for its frame buffer which has a paltry ~25GBps bandwidth as opposed to the 360's 256GBps for FRAMEBUFFER (which dictates AA and HDR effects) Basically the frambuffer is already strained and adding more crap into the game world will only cause the game to run at 5fps.
As for the shaders, This is one of the reasons I will not support 360 games yet as devs are still old shader techniques which look like crap and actually make the games run SLOWER than if they used current shader tech. The reason is that GPUs are DESIGNED for the newer tech which, to make a long story short allows them to render less polygons on screen while producing visuals that are several times more detailed . Example a typical enemy in Gears of War is made of 5000 polygons which actually LESS than many characters in current gen games. For perpective Mario 64 , had Mario at 500 polys and obviously looked like block. With only 10x the number of polys you can produce almost near cinematic renders due to normal, parralax, mapping and such. Its just that no one actually feels like doing the work because theres no competition on the market. At least not until GOW came out...
J @ Feb 10th 2007 1:34PM
The memory limitation can be due to the speed at which data is loaded from the hard drive. It may cause the framerate to lag. It may be an internal hardware limitation that has little to do with the amount of memory but has alot to do with the speed at which it loads which would be considered a limitation. I tend to trust the developers who are working with the hardware who actually know whats going on. The comments made by people here are all speculation and nonsense. A workaround may have been to expensive to persue although they did have an ENTIRE year to work out the bugs. Now I know what I wrote is not exactly fact and I have no hardware specs to prove anything but usually the developers are not retarted and know whats going on.
Maylon @ Feb 10th 2007 1:45PM
Um, @ #44, no offense, but you do realize PC's run a game differently than a pc, right? A console does 10x more with less specs. Why can't PC gamers understand and respect this fact?
DeezNuts420 @ Feb 10th 2007 1:39PM
@44
The reason PC's need more RAM is because of opoerating/background programs running. The 360 shuts down the OS and concentrates on the game itself. PC's are still running Windows, Antivirus software, etc. Therefore they require more RAM.
DX10 wasn't available at the time of release, but it's still very powerful.