Canada accused of safeguarding pirates, ESA & friends seek blacklisting

Wasn't Canada the region where, only recently, CDRs were at a price that wasn't farqing ridiculous?

Note to IIPA,

Wasn't Canada the region where, only recently, CDRs were at a price that wasn't farqing ridiculous?

Note to IIPA,

Wasn't Canada the region where, only recently, CDRs were at a price that wasn't farqing ridiculous?

Note to IIPA,

"Canada remains far behind virtually all of its peers in the industrialized world with respect to its efforts to bring its copyright laws up to date with the realities of the global digital networked environment"

I would take issue with that, as I think a lot of others would also. I would say they are far *ahead* of most of their peers in recognizing individual rights and uses with respect to copyright law in a digital world. Consumers have rights too, and Canada is one of the few industrialized countries to recognize that.

Once was enough, Sheppy :)

I say go canada. If thats the only place modchips can still be made legally in NA, then I hope it stays that way.

Digital rights management is all about takeing fair use away from the consumer.

Translation:

Canada has fair use laws, and we are crying to big government to make them stop using their purchased products in a way in which the consumer still has some rights. If they are allowed to continue this blatant fair usage of products they rightfully purchased, then the terrorists have already won. Please tell your new best friend Mr. Harper what to do. He always listens to you. Do it quickly, too, the conservatives might get kicked out of power soon.

signed,
the whiny big media crybabies who can't figure out how to update their business model so we need more laws instead.

Basically, all they want is to be able to sue Canadian citizens for music sharing and all the other things they sue US citizens for. If anything, the model in the US is outdated as well.

Down with DRM, up with Linux

Death to Windows!

I say we invade them. Not kill anyone or do anything. Just get an assload of troops and tanks, cruise in unexpectedly and wander around, then come back and not even acknowledge that we did it. You know, just to scare the crap out of them. They'd be all like "omg what are you doing? Argh we surrender!!" And we could just stare blankly like they are crazy. It would be fun.

As far as the actual topic of the thread, which I usually avoid, I am not sure where I sit on the whole copyright stuff. I want the companies to profit by providing me games and stuff, but I also am always a fan of my rights to do what I want. Whatever approach leads to the most kickass games available I want to sign up for. I don't mind paying for them.

In the end, though, you really only have the rights to use something as you agreed to. If someone has a product and says "paying me x amount allows you to do this, everything else is illegal" you have two choices. Buy it or don't buy it. You can't buy something created for a certain purpose and then think you have the right to use it in a bunch of others. That is just having your cake and eating it to, along with some justification of why you are right anyways.

I think the IIPA should be worried about its own damn country thank you very much.

Its articles like this that make me proud to be Canadian.

*goes off to download some dvds, games and muic*

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I have but one thing to say to this...

YAR!!!

Now if you'll excuse me, Two Thrones has almost finished downloading on my PC.

wow. did that ascii flag art backfire on me lol. heres the site I got it from

http://www.geocities.com/spunk1111/flag.htm

Oh and the person who talk about walking in with tanks and not saying anything, thats either a lame joke your your really dumb. you know we do have a military. You act as if we would all be terrified ad bow befor your power?

Wow, that was a farqed up glitch. Some mod want to kill two of those three posts? Incidently, to finish a thought before the glitch done farqed up...

Note to IIPA,
We know times are hard and you're hurting. The comedy movies are tragically illtimed, often ripping off the one in 70 that was actually clever, or at least clever enough to not be completely scorned by the public at large. The horror movies need to rape South Korea, Japan, and China for every idea that gets the greenlight. And the action films, well, let's just say even American Ninja looks like Lord Of The Rings compared to the chunks of shit that fall steadily from the ass of Hollywood these days.

And we know, it's very hard to market this. After all, who would actually WANT to see Norbit? How many people braved Saw III simply because the alternatives were much worse?

And the music? What sad state of affairs that industry has become.

It's only natural that, as the consumer base backlashes against items which suck, in general, that sales would go down. There is still potential there, though. By steadily increasing our diet of "good" entertainment, you can help keep video games from becoming the dominant entertainment media. In fact, many people would enjoy buying CDs, watching movies, and buying DVDs would the quality increase.

And likewise, if I could go see a film nowadays without seeing a sad portrayal of a man who paints the benches in a major scene for Kirsten Dunsts latest "You see? I have serious acting talent" adventures, reminding us that his job, painting those benches, depend on my ability to pay for a movie ticket and watch the commercial in the only conceivable way I could possibly have even seen that little PSA.

You don't have to backlash and scapegoat. The consumers still love you. They're just "out to get a beer" to get away from your nagging for a while.

Bureaucracy here in the U.S. seems to be run by the same people who won't spend more than $500 on a PC, get it from Dell (because they saw it on the teevee, and that means it's good right?), and then never use it for fear of breaking it. Technology terrifies them, so they don't know how it works and can never begin to understand it to write fair legislation for it.

And their egos are HUGE (like Xbox), so they will NEVER admit to not being on the up-and-up with the gadgets and gizmos of the 21st century. No, they'd rather just tell all of us who know what we're doing that we're doing it wrong, because some guys with fat wallets told them so.

So what happens when Canada gets blacklisted? Are they hoping to blacklist Canadian IPs from the lollernets? Do they even know what blacklist means?

Arrr.

Jake I am sorry but all three of your paragraphs are littered with misunderstandings of the situation. First of all, if the us did invade Canada they would have allot of headaches doing so. Not only would many other countries join in to defend us we have much more military prowess then you might think. Sure our technology is outdated but we are far ahead of the united states in quality of training. There have been a few results given on who has the best trained but most have Israel in 1st then Switzerland and then Canada. United states usually around 10th.

Secondly the laws being questions are ones that take away general rights of the user. These rights protect the consumer from corporations from exploiting them. One of these such laws is the right to duplicate copies for backup purposes.

Your last paragraph is also based on what these companies want you to believe. Their was a time when you had rights that couldn't be defeated by a contract. If they sold you a product you had the right to copy that file in order to use it on other platforms or for backup. These laws were put in place so you weren't double dipped for profit. A company couldn't charge you for a song and charge you to play that song on another device, you had to right to transfer it. Now these companies want more money so they are trying to change the rules in their favor.

Their are numerous benefits to be had for corporations with these laws with no benefit to the consumer. For this reason no one should support them unless their are clauses protecting the rights of the consumer.

Those filthy Canucks with their clean streets and generally mild dispositions. I knew they were up to no good. Canadian Bacon wasn't a movie, it was warning.

"Yeah because everything in the world should be free and we should always take from the rich and give to the poor."
I'm sorry, what is the Canadian tax rate? Oh yeah, like 90%. How is all that "free" stuff now?

Argh! How'd they find out about me crew of
mod chip pirates? Blast! The finest internet pirates, we be!


Argh! We be the last Saskatchewan pirates! And there be nothing your puny government can do to stop us! Ya Har!

how do they know one country is any worse off than another? What's Canada got in regards to piracy that the states (for example) don't have? Pacific Mall?

This dude gots tha mod chips!

http://www.tokinowasuremono.com/photograph/Steve%20Gardner%5BHells%20Angels%20No.3%5D.jpg

Allow me to summarize for those in favor of this:

Canada is the last bastion of freedom! I'll teach those evil corporations by downloading their products (i.e. "stealing") and denying them money!


Thank you, one and all, for your undying commitment to freedom and liberty. [roll eyes]

Just when I thought our progressive same-sex marriage laws were a reason to be a proud Canadian, now the IIPA goes and gives me ANOTHER reason to blush with pride.

And while I agree with Jeff in spirit (ie that our government hasn't yet surrendered to the corporate bullying because they are watching out for our rights as consumers) I would go one step further to say it's about protecting our rights as citizens.

That's the problem with America right now - it has no citizens - only consumers.

We're no utopia mind you, but our relationship with our government is VASTLY different, admittedly much of this is a result of our smaller size and not some kind of special 'Canuck enlightenment'. Though a healthy, educated, non-paranoia population lends itself to a more activist and politically involved population allowing us to be a little more vigilant about corporate encroachment on our rights .

Thanks for the trollpost, Grog.

Haha! I'm going to go download some music, games and dvds, then buy a mod chip and laugh in all your faces. At least we have rights, not barbaric, and suing people who download music. OMFG, that bitch downloaded music! SUE! SUE!

In Canada we pay a fee on every CD-R (and other media) sold. This fee allows us to legally download (but not upload) free p2p music.

LOL! i cant believe that american groups are trying to change canadian law. i will bet my LIFE that a large percent of pirated software comes from the states. why dont you try to fix the damn problems in your country before trying to "fix" ares.

Okay, to clarify. My invade Canada paragraph was just a bad joke. It really required no comments and I am sorry if I offended anyone. I know, sarcasm is hard for some people to catch, especially when you aren't in person and able to read how a person is saying it.

The Canadian army is actually considered around the 15th most capable in the world, if anyone wanted to know. Not too shabby. I knew that before making the post, too.

As for digital rights. I don't see why a company shouldn't be able to sell you something under the agreement that you don't copy it for any purpose. They don't have to sell you anything. You don't have to buy anything. Only when the two parties agree is there a sale. The lack of copying capabilities certainly reduces the value of the deal, but it doesn't violate my god-given rights. I just am amazed when people try to convince me that it is such a travesty. You can agree to give up rights you normally would have; it is done all the friken time.

If there was no way for me to copy CD's, I honestly wouldn't buy them. I scratch them in my car like crazy and personal backups are a must (actually my original is always my "backup"). I love how I can basically abuse my CD's never having to worry because it is a buck to replace them.

I've never broke a DVD, they are easy to take care of. Same with games. They go case-player-case. People who leave them around maybe scratch them up, but not me. Sure, I like to be able to copy them, but I don't think it is a violation of my rights if a company will only sell me the product under the agreement that I never copy it, ever. Their chance of selling it to me goes down, but it is up to them to set an agreement and a price they feel good with and up to me whether to accept or decline. That is simple business, my friends.

@Jake

You're right, doesn't have to sell us anything. But if they wish to, they have to follow local laws. And the laws in Canada state that a consumer has fair use.

And really though, it's not like it's legal to set up a pirated game & music download site in Canada. They'd get shut down just as fast as in the US.

And Canada is ranked #15 in the world's military? Damn, that's far higher than I would have guessed. I do know our fighter pilots are fucking awesome though. Usually second only to Israel.

Stores openly sell bootleg games and DVDs in Toronto's "Pacific Mall" (the largest indoor China-town mall in North America). For example, I saw stores selling X-Men III DVDs in an envelope, with a cover that's a scan of the movie poster (including "Coming Soon" and the release date on the bottom!) while the movie was still in theaters! However, my favourite is the store that advertised that their DVDs are "DVD quality or it's free"!

Our (Canadian) government does absolutely nothing to enforce copyright laws. Every couple of years, when a group complains about Canada's piracy problem, the RCMP does a token raid of the mall and hands out warning letters. The problem is, the stores don't take the warnings seriously, and the police can't suddenly decide to enforce the law, otherwise people would lose their businesses and might even go to jail! It's like what happened with BC's "coffee houses"... the police left them alone, but under external pressure, the RCMP were forced to enforce marijuana laws and shut one down. That left the owners screaming because the police took away their business even though there was no precedence for the police to shut down illegal coffee houses. It's the same with stores selling pirated games and movies.

Well, Chinatown will be Chinatown. But it's not like Future Shop or Best Buy could get away with it for a second.

AirIntake,

The US has the best pilots in teh world. Jeez, didn't you see Top Gun?

People always rank best this and best that. My number for Canada being 15th is based on the fact that they spend about the 15th most on their military worldwide. I don't know how their pilots are rated 2nd, that is probably a bit subjective. When is the last time a Canadian pilot saw action? Desert Storm?

And please don't think I am trying to buy into corporate brainwashing or anything for copyrighting. It just doesn't seem like a big deal if I buy something under the agreement of not copying it, even if it is just for myself. Heck, maybe that pisses me off enough and I pirate it instead. It is up to the corporation to determine how to provide the best value at best profit margin possible to make the most money. It is up to me to buy what I want the most for the right prices. Just as long as it is very clear what you are getting into.

If the ESA really wanted to stop pirates they would start hiring ninjas and have them sneak over the border. Damn pirates wouldn't know what hit em.

@ comment #6

Couldn't agree more.

As usual, everyone is black-and-whiting this entire scenario. There is a significant difference between allowing individuals to backup their personal copies of electronic data and shipping out programs and movies to those who have not purchased it ever. It says something when a quarter of all bootlegs being sold are from Canada. Why is this?

Everyone is ass-backwards in their own sense. One side of the coin (USA) goes overboard protecting business interests that is steps on individuals. The other side (Canada) goes overboard on personal freedoms that it forgets that businesses have rights, too. Businesses are not inferior entities, they are owned by the very citizens that have rights. As a shareholder myself, don't I have a right to my assets being safeguarded from these a-holes who are selling MY (yes, mine, none of these assets are owned by companies, they are owned by me and the company is merely the stuard to my assets) property for their own benefit?

Now, I don't actually own any interests in media companies (way too volatile for my tastes), but that is the idea. The shareholders, from individuals to instututions to the guy who happens to have a small cut through his 401k are the ones who have the rights. Piracy is theft from individuals, no way around it. Trying to compare pirates to a group of benevolant saints just smacks of retardation.

Yes, Canada is seriously backwards on this. This is why such a small nation (population) can command such a large part of the world of piracy. The only two nations that are worse are China and Niue (go ahead and look that one up, I'm sure a large number of your favorite Torrent sites are registered there), and one of them is only on there because it allows international fronting through their internet system. China has 40 times the population, but not nearly the same percentage of piracy. Answer that one.

On the #15 ranking for Canada on the military list. They are actually ranked a little badly. I'm sure this is the list in question:

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

It doesn't properly rank certain aspects such as training competency, equipment quality, troop morale, etc. Canada is certianly not a weaker military than Mexico, they've simply lost out on other metrics like population size and front-line military population. The site even put the UK behind Germany, which isn't even capable of any form of serious defense in its current condition.

If Canada is so big on bootlegging, why have I never, EVER seen a bootlegged anything up here? Shit, I'd be happy to get a bootlegged Rocky Balboa DVD right now just because of how much I hate theaters (off to BitTorrent I go I guess).

I mean sure, at an underground music store I once saw bootlegged U2 live albums, but that's not a very big scene, and probably exists in much the same way in every country.

Oh, and how they determine how good fighter pilots are is with international competitions. Look up Red Flag and Maple Flag, just for starters.

AirIntake -

International competitions are all well and good, but there simply is no alternative to actual combat time. Could do well in practice, but when stuff is actually blowing up around you, the ability could prove otherwise. Not that I'm saying they're not capable in actual combat, its just those rankings don't indicate combat capability any more than my rankings in a RTS measure my ability to lead troops in an actual war. Any direct comparison would be impossible without an actual engaged war.

"China has 40 times the population, but not nearly the same percentage of piracy. Answer that one."

I wonder if technological innovation, aka 850 million Chinese peasants lacking certain... technological aspects... has anything to do with that? Seems like a pretty easy answer. Were you serious or not?

For the record, bootlegging is stealing. And yes, the Chinatown in Calgary also has stores that sells bootlegged stuff. I'm not exactly certain at the import/export value of that, since 25% seems astonishingly high. Mod chips? Fuck you. If I buy something and wanna change it, let me. If I use it to play international games, too bad. If I use it to play bootlegged games, I'm stealing.

And the anti piracy measures seems like what they did for prostitution in Norway (I think). You can be a prostitute there, but it's illegal to pay for one's services. You can download material here, but can't yourself profit or share it.

@Jake "When is the last time a Canadian pilot saw action? Desert Storm?"

After 9/11, we sent our troops into Afghanistan in support of the U.S. war on terrorism, and we are still fighting that war in Afghanistan. But when the U.S. went into Iraq, they ragged on us for not going into Iraq! WTF!!! We already committed our troops to Afghanistan. What do you want us to do, withdraw from Afghanistan in order to go into Iraq?

"Piracy is theft from individuals, no way around it. Trying to compare pirates to a group of benevolant saints just smacks of retardation."

Funny you should bring up retardation LaughingTarget.

This is part of a larger lobbying effort taking place right now in Canada involving millions of dollars in an effort to change our laws so a kid downloading some MP3 files can be sued by the labels for thousands of dollars.

Now that IS retarded.

They've been using false information to support their efforts and now this crap is the latest step in their war against copyright terrorists (cause that's what they are, aren't they LaughingTarget?).

http://digg.com/movies/Destroying_The_MPAA_s_Claims_On_The_Canadian_Camcording_Epidemic

One more thing, Canada is LEADING the NATO military forces in Afghanistan right now and thankfully it's not quite the colossal failure that the Iraq invasion is. At least THAT military action has something to do with 9/11. But I digress.

The businesses are going too far, and the mod chips are hardly epidemic. If anything, the consumers are likely american, as they are a much larger market than Canada.

It's a big deal for Canada to retain their own sovereignty and not be bullied by the businesses community. The advantage that Canada has, unlike 3rd world countries under the WTO is that the law respects us. The american businesses are using scare tactics on us (canada), the little guy.

How did people not know that we are in afghanistan? and Canada's snipers are the best in the world, why? because the two longest recorded kills in history belong to canadians and because we have intense training. only 3 out of every 8 people who enter sniper training pass. and as some people mentioned we have to pay more for all media anyway. and someone mentioned our tax is very high which is true, but this is because we provide free health care.

hahaha, what a coincidence. My buddy actually got some letters from Warner the other day telling him to halt his bittorent pirating or else....

When it snows up here, two things to do. Sex and/or torrents. We play hockey the rest of the time.

@ #38
"I'm sorry, what is the Canadian tax rate? Oh yeah, like 90%. How is all that "free" stuff now?"

For consumer goods in Alberta, which is where I am, there is no provincial tax, so we only pay the federal tax of 6%.

You know, which is less than or equal to 19 states in the USA (thank you http://www.taxadmin.org/FTA/rate/sales.html). Hardly the "90%" you're throwing around.

The maritimes get it the worst, with HST of up to 15-16%. But if you've ever been there, particularly Newfoundland, you'd know things are a little... different... there.

A word to American corporations and organizations like the **IA's. We'll do whatever the hell we want so piss off. Worry about your own laws.

We here in Canada pay a levy on blank media, on the assumption that it's being used to duplicate copyrighted works.

If I'm already paying for it, why is it ethically wrong to use the media in that way?

Jake, you asked "When is the last time a Canadian pilot saw action? Desert Storm?"

Last time the CF-18's saw combat was 1999, though the airforce remains active today in Afghanistan. Forget about that war?