Japanese software sales: week ending 02.11.07

Sheppy -

"Nintendo, leading the charge with popular software and third parties following suit with established IPs and "me too" products closely resembling Nintendo published products. And who can blame them? When a pattern is established, your best chance is to develop for as cheaply and quickly as possible following current market trends. "

Ok, Let me ask you something. I'm not being a prick and I'm not being sarcastic, I actually want your honest answer to the following question: What would you do to remedy the situation if you were Nintendo?

Honestly, should they start making poor quality games so that the third party trash can seem comparable and/or better? Should Nintendo stick to just making systems? Honestly, if Nintendo making really really great games and then the 3rd parties doing the "me too" thing, I really don't think you can blame nintendo either. It's the 3rd parties own fault for not being original/creative/inventive/innovative. Thats the bottom line, if great games are made people will by them (most of the time: see - Ico/Okami/many others for the exceptions). I honestly would love to know your opinion on what needs to be done.

Didn't Sega come out dissing the PS3 as an overpriced piece of shit? If that is Sony's " most valuable ally" then that says a whole lot about the state the PS3 is in.

Yeah, sorry about that Synikal. As a tireless pedant, I'm used to correcting people in the minutiae of life. It seems that I was a lot more tired than I thought this morning. ;)

Pop quiz - if you think the DS has a host of Pokemon clones, name all the Pokemon clones on the DS. Or at least as many as you can.

And while you're at it, name all the clones of Brain Age. I can think of three - not exactly a dominating number.

As for why we get the Japanese charts and not the North American charts... the Japanese charts are publically listed and available for free. However, the companies that keep track of US sales charge for the release of that data. And they charge fairly heavily - a few hundred dollars at the cheapest.

It's not so much that Joystiq doesn't want to run the American charts. They just don't want to pay for the privelege.

I'll throw in that, as much as I can't stand the various Sony fanboys are here (which makes me act like a Nintendo fanboy sometimes), you actually make some decent points, sheppy. With that said, if 3rd parties are afraid of making games for Nintendo products, that has absolutely nothing to do with what Nintendo is doing. If you'll recall, Nintendo has ALWAYS made games for their products, and I'm guessing the historical data shows that they are the biggest sellers. And yet Nintendo made a killing over the NES and SNES years with tons of third party activity.

Personally, I think the issue has more to do with Nintendo's mistakes in the N64 era. They let Sony push them off the top of the food chain, and it's been a pain to get on-time and optimized games for their system ever since, even when they had advantages like better hardware assets. I don't think the quality of Nintendo's titles has changed since the NES days, so it's really just a matter of 3rd parties getting on board. The screwy thing is that the Wii and the DS have really drawn a line in the sand - it's not possible to just do an easy port any more, you have to at least put in a bit of effort.

Anyway, med school calls. As much as I'd like to argue more, I have a tissues test to study for. Oh, and for what its worth, I only brought Sony into this because (Xbox fans may cry now) Microsoft is irrelevant in Japan, and those are the numbers we're talking about.

I knew VF5 would top the charts, but I thought it would've sold more. And I thought it would push a good number of PS3 consoles, too. But, it managed less than 30,000 PS3s sold that week. The PSP still beat it.

This isn't good. The PS3 user base is over 600,000. The 360, which is a bit more than half the PS3 installed base, sold over 80,000 copies of Blue Dragon in it's first week.

Why isn't PS3 software selling if the users have the system?

Does anyone know how many PS3s are going to launch in Europe? They are offering copies of Casino Royale to the first 500,000 who register on PSN, so I'm guessing they'll have more than that on release, no? I thought I read somewhere that they'd only be getting about 250,000 or so.

@51

There appear to be 8-10 such games in the top 20. How many total wasn't the point.

Myke, here's my plan and it honestly involves the fanbase. Here is the deal and why so many companies are reluctant to dev for Nintendo consoles. It's a statement I'm sure you've seen plenty of times on this site in comments threads.

"I buy Nintendo Consoles for Nintendo Games."

Even though that seems to make sense, that pretty much sums up the huge hurdle third party games have to jump. Let's put it this way.

Resident Evil 0 and REmake. Two highly hyped third party titles around launch, both sold well under expectations. Viewtiful Joe, once again, sold well under expectations. Bloody Roar 4, sold well under expectations. Burnout, College Sports, well... I could go on and on. Point is, most of the early third party efforts were received fairly poorly and THIS is what set the tone for the console.

Now where are we at on the Wii? Currently, we're all but ignoring third party efforts aside from the traditional Madden and Red Steel. Efforts like Rayman: Raving Rabbits, despite being a cult success, has been steadily slipping down the NPD charts at an alarming rate. In fact, to my knowledge, it hasn't made the top five for quite some time.

So where does this place us and the ultimate solution? Sadly, it's in the consumer base. Consumers have to be willing to throw out some cash for an occasional third party game even when it gets "about an 80." The current consumer trend is to wait until the second teir titles drop in price but sadly, this is sending the wrong message. The money chucked at the title AFTER it has dropped to $20, unless it's a greatest hit or something, isn't benefiting the publisher and likewise, they'll begin to reconsider their future Wii endeavors. Likewise, the lack of sales are not going to be encouraging to companies that are either on the fence or vocally wary (Midway has been among them) of the console in general.

You asked me how Nintendo can fix this issue and, in all honesty, it's beyond their power. It's the consumer base that needs to correct it. However, Nintendo could pull a page from Sonys playbook and start promoting third party software. Possibly sending email coupons for up and coming third party games, or here is an even better idea. Introduce a point system. Every Wii game would have a code, much like Nintendos current first party stuff, except adopt a system like converting those points to WiiPoints. Make is something like every four games gets a free NES game style equivelant. A tiny bonus to keep in mind and possibly drum up the all important third party sales. And since Nintendo is making about $7-$8 a copy to license Wii software, why they can't chuck $1 into a RewardMii style program?

But yeah, it ultimately lies in the consumers hands. That's why I think more is riding on the upcoming Sonic game than most people think. When the high profile third party titles drop, and how the consumer base reacts to them, that will ultimately set the tone for Wii.

Nintendo is tearing it up. Not exactly my cup of tea anymore, but good for them. Bringing newbies into the mix is a good thing, and I think that the DS and Wii are doing just that. Hooray for gaming.

Sheppy, yeah, I see your point and I don't really disagree with anything you said. But the fact is that it's a vicious cycle, ya know. When support for N64 faultered slightly then the Gamecube already gave devolopers a bad taste in thier mouths. So when there were no 3rd party killer apps (Ala: RE4, and I see where you're going with REmake and RE0 but the bottom line with those games is they were good, but not great) at launch then people had nothing to look forward to except 1st party garb, at which point the consumer base disregarded 3rd parties, which cause the few remaining 3rd party die-hards to jump ship, and so on and so forth. But I think the Wii is different. And I'll tell you right now that the Sonic game will bomb, that's the bottom line, and I'm sorry to say it, because I love Sonic, but that has nothing to do with what system it's on, the Sonic franchise isn't held near and dear to very many people these days. I think that the 3rd parties need to get out there and stomp the pavement and get thier shit together. If a really REALLY good 3rd party title hits within the next year, while the Wii iron is still scorching hot, 3rd party support will flock back. However, I dont think Sonic is the pony to do it. I'm not bashing 3rd parties because I totally see the market sense in it, you go where you can make money, and when great games are coming out from the company that knows the system best, it's hard. They don't want to slip into a pool with a shark and that's perfectly fine, but SOMEONE is going to have to take the plunge, because there's money to be made there, it's just a matter of time before someone (besides Ninty) figures out exactly what the Wii consumerbase wants.

Sheppy, I think 3rd Parties are happy with their Wii sales. I've yet to see/read a publisher say their Wii sales are sluggish. Even Tecmo is happy with the sales of Super Swing Golf. I don't think anyone expects to beat Nintendo at their own game, but so far games are doing better than projections.

Over the last few weeks, we've seen lots of games get announced for the Wii. Including the sequel to one of the most violent games in recent years, Manhunt. That says something right there. I do agree that many companies are going to be looking closely at Wii sales, but so far, there hasn't been room to complain, as it does show that gamers are at least willing to give third party games a chance.

You mention the GC lineup, and I remember those days being rather interesting. The Resident Evil games were announced, but they were simple ports of games we'd already purchased on other systems. Why any company would think people would buy two or three copies of the same game is not thinking straight. Which is what will hurt the PS3 and Wii versions of The Godfather coming out next month. My friends had already purchased the Resident Evil games on the Dreamcast and PS1, they saw no need to purchase them on the Cube. Viewtiful Joe was a cool game, but too hard for the masses. I'd have to look at the PS2 versions to see how well it sold there.

Anyway, I support third party games and really don't purchase a lot of Nintendo games. However, I won't puchase shoddy ports and if the PS2 version has more content, then I'll get that version. Just makes the most sense. That's half the reason I did not pick up Call of Duty 3 for the Wii. No extra content at all. Still, they managed to sell quite a few copies of that game. Activision should be happy about that.

sheppy I'm willing to bet money that YOU considered the N64 and GameCube a failure. Just about everybody on the planet except Nintendo fanboys felt that way. Now when it's your console failing you do everything you can to show how great it's doing including contradicting your self.

@ Sheppy

Viewtiful Joe did fail to meet sales expectations, but Resident Evil 4 did become a million seller, as did (i'm pretty sure) Resident Evil 0 and 1

It depends on what you deem "successful" I'd say anything that sells over 1 million is successful, but that's open to debate

My Resource:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_computer_and_video_games#Nintendo_GameCube

Hey, if 6 to 8 titles in the top 20are ripoffs like you claim, you should be able to list which ones are very easily.

Unless, of course, you just make claims baselessly.

"53. I really wouldn't say Virtua Fighter 5 is a winner when it almost lost out to Wii Sports which has been avalable for 11 Weeks.

- There are currently 600,000 PS3s owners in Japan only 30,000 picked up Virtua Fighter 5. - CapAmerica"

Dude? It's a weekly chart and VF5 won this week. That's all. It DID outsell Wii Sports so that makes it the winner this week. It may vanish into ether next week, and sell 14 copies while Wii Sports tacks on another 40,000 copies, but VF5 still topped the charts this one week in Japan.

And your numbers are off this time too: the chart says Virtua Fighter 5 sold 48,346 units, not 30,000 like you state.

@63

Damn... did you f'ing read my posts? I never once claimed they were ripoffs beyond saying they were clones. Nor was my point even directed at the DS specifically.

A couple of comments were made about how interedsting the Japanese top game lists were and one person they were much more interesting because they weren't filled with sports, FPS, and movie tie-in games. I simply pointed out that the Japanese list had lots of a couple different types of games too, just in different genres than we see in lists from other parts of the world. The point being that the Japanese lists are no more varied than anywhere else.

But since you asked, the games that I would say fit into those two categories (mind training & pokemon clones): #4, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 22, 25, and maybe 26 (not sure what type of game that is). Again, the point being that while US sales lists may be littered with FPS and sports games, the Japanese fill their lists with clones too.

Is that clear enough for you now?

"PS2 - 2
PSP - 1
PS3 - 1
NDS - 23
WII - 3"

And out of those 23 DS games maybe one or two are actually worth playing for more than 10 minutes.

I don't like anything with Mario (stop milking the franchise, or at least come up with something innovative) or Wario in it, I hate Pokemon, I don't need training in English (or with my brain, Kanji skills or "common knowledge"), I don't like simple Jap RPG's and finally, I don't have any need for "1000 recipes" (what the f u c k is that anyway).

Hell, even PSP is way more attractive (MGS, Syphon Filter, Daxter, Ratchet & Clank, LocoRoco, Tekken, SOCOM etc..).

It seems that quirky "2+2=???" shit is all the rage now, but I still want to play *real* games.

to 27:sheppy

3 non nintendo DS game have sold more then a million

http://www.vgcharts.org/worldtotals.php?name=&console=DS&publisher=&sort=Total

Now more third party games have sold over a million on the psp(6)

http://www.vgcharts.org/worldtotals.php?name=&console=DS&publisher=&sort=Total

But the order in most sales goes
PSP(GTA)
DS(Tamogotchi)
DS(Final Fantasy III)
DS(Sonic Rush)
Then the remaining PSP games

So which would you rather develop for?

@Myke

You and I could almost agree about the third party thing on Gamecube except, while Capcom wasn't exactly throwing out their aim game initially, neither was Nintendo. Early on, you had Super Smash Brothers Melee, and? Most of the other games were fairly inconsequential. Nintendo seems to have a hard time hitting the ground running but once they build up speed, it leaves little room for others. I could honestly say that's why I feel so many of the recent Wii announcements come directly from Gamecube camp. They have the inertia built up there, why not use Gamecube games announced for Wii instead? It's not like Nintendo has a reputation of supporting their old consoles once the replacements drop. Love or hate Sony, that's a major thing they do right.

@Darkness
What you have, right now, is namely a market free of Nintendo games. Literally, there are now five in the US market (and, incidently, look at what are the top five wii games in Japan for the past month). Companies are getting some residual sales by default, how will that continue to fair as more Nintendo games drop, exactly? Also, you know why you don't hear third party developers complaining? You're gonna love this. Because they are often vocal only after the fact. Acclaim and EA are pretty much the only ones that have been vocal in the past during the generation. Other companies either silently cancel games, lessen develpment, or put huge focus on developing for other consoles and letting the Nintendo version be a "we'll get to it eventually" situation. It's only after the generation end does comepanies come forward like "well, actually we didn't see huge sales."

@ Mr. Kahn
You fail to understand the basic idea behind the wording "expectations." Both REmake and RE0 were expected to top out at a little over 2 million, or so Capcom had hoped. Actualy sales, however, were much slower. In fact, last time I heard, bulk of the sales on both REmake and RE0 were post Players Choice. I could be wrong but I think I remember that from an article a long time ago on gamasutra. And, incidently, were you aware that, on PS2, to get GH status, you have to sell 500,000 copies (which, in all honesty, I consider that the bar for success) but on Gamecube, you have to breach 200,000. Well, something to think about.

@ Catprog
Well, tell you what, kitten. Take a close look at what I said to Darkness. Now look at those DS games (incidently, my mistake. Turns out I was thinking million sellers in Japan... my bad). If you notice, two of those three are pre "fucking blowing up" period. This was all before brain training. Now do you begin to see the problem? Literally, what do you expect the next third party million seller to be? DQIX? How about FFXII:Mystic Quest?

Well, to be fair, let's also look at the other perspective here: how many of the top selling third-party franchises/games on such lists actually make it on a Nintendo platform?

As for RE games, they started to dwindle and become stale over time and selling less with each new entry (that is until RE4 came along whose chances on the Cube was somewhat sabotage by the PS2 release announcement and being late in the Cube's lifetime). The Cube got two PS1 ports, one DC port, one remake (which was the best as far as all the ports go), and one moved from N64 status (not a bad thing mind) but didn't manage to fix the gameplay formula that plagued the series.

Let me put it this way, third-parties have played this wait and see approach since the mass exodus from the N64 and have never really made that big charge (and by charge I don't mean from one company with one big franchise; I mean big charge as in at least give big companies developing at least one or two big franchises secured to be on Nintendo's console). What I want this big show of support not this Wii gets Elebits, PS3 gets MGS4 kind of disparity. You sway a large audience that are more into games like MGS4 than Elebits by showing them the games they want going to whatever system. To do this big gesture for the Wii it'll need something as big as MGS4 and as secure as people would think that the next FF will be on the PS3 without having this "will it, won't it" uncertainty. RE on the Cube had this guarantee but it stood alone despite its stale status. There was no MGS series on the Cube and after Twin Snakes people were still wondering: MGS2 & 3, will they, won't they. That's an aggravating position for any gamer. Do you have to hedge your bets where your favorites will go? N64 gamers thought FFVII on N64, no brainer, then just like that it was gone. DQIX on PS3, no brainer, also gone and you can't even guarantee DQX will be DS again until you see the pattern form or at least have some announcement of commitment that it will be.

If the Wii follows the course of success and sell more than the others, can we even have guarantee from third-party developers? Despite their undying support for the PS2, will they start calling Wii underpowered now? Will they bring up more excuses like "kiddy." Will they follow this "kiddy" system stigm, make "kiddy" looking games, and ultimately sabotage the "mature" audience presence on the Wii and splitting the fanbase; mature games here, kiddy games there?

"Well, to be fair, let's also look at the other perspective here: how many of the top selling third-party franchises/games on such lists actually make it on a Nintendo platform?"

You know what I would have bought for GC or Wii had they ever come out for them?

--Psychonauts
--God Hand
--Okami
--Any Capcom Fighter (even if it was 'rehashed', even!)
--Metal Gear Solid 2&3
--SoulCalibur III
--Tekken

Sure, a few were understandably and SMARTLY held under exclusive agreements with Nintendo's competitors but then there are some when the GC was outright ignored without real cause 'PSYCHONAUTS'. Now with Wii there's a chance and I HOLD IT TO 3RD PARTIES to take that chance, because truth be told with a lot of 3rd-Parties on GC, they didn't try.

I might choose to stick with a Nintendo platform because I'm a fanboy, but there are those who aren't and can see the same thing: 3rd-Parties simply didn't try on the GC to begin with. A lot of them Nintendo had to pay for exclusives.

I became a big fan of Activision through their offerings on GC. Tony Hawk series (up to THUG), Spider-Man series, etc. were a good fraction of my GC library, and they were darned good games.

Capcom also gave the GC a decent try with Resident Evil, Viewtiful Joe, but they pretty much hurt their potential on GC by announcing PS2 ports of their supposed "GC exclusives" while GC was still gaining customers. Especially with Resident Evil 4. What a freaking shot in both Capcom and Nintendo's feet.

Ubi-soft with Prince of Persia, Splinter-Cell was also really good. They really are on the brink now because of the 'Wiiports' being control-addled versions of PS2 games, something that is unnecessary. Nintendo said DEVELOPING for Wii was cheap, not porting.

If any 3rd-Party DECENT that DOES NOT rely on mechanics from other console version (a Wiimake/remake, basically), I'll snatch it up, not to mention the good games that really needlessly avoided the GC.

I think the smartest thing that can be said about competing with Nintendo on their own platform: DEVELOP SOMETHING GOOD AND UNIQUE FOR IT.

Likewise I think it sucks that SCE's own ICO/Shadow of the Colossus don't sell as much as their more popular games on PS2. Or LocoRoco. Or Okami. At least with Okami there's the possibility of porting/re-developing it for another system.

Hell, I'm even developing SOME respect for EA for making their more important Wii games at least well-adjusted to the new interface.

I mean, what does a company like Double Fine have to risk with putting Psychonauts on GC then or even now with Wii? That 'kiddy'ness will hurt sales?

Okay, I was waiting for this article to go live on Gamesutra...
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=12596

Nintendo Fanbot, to see the difference between a good port and a bad port, compare Bloody Roar on GC to PS2's version and, naturally, SSX Tricky on GC versus PS2's version. To port properly, there is still a decent investment required.

Also, I believe, two factors played their roles in MGS skipping the Gamecube. The first one being the tragically low sales of Twin Snakes (seriously, $20 copies were findable after a month and a half... I know, I got one) and the tragically low storage space on the Gamecube itself. Gamecube discs went up to 1.5GBs. Hideo Kojima happens to be a storage space hog (he's the only developer urging Sony to unleash the 50GBs BluRays for games... the man claims 25GB isn't enough) so it's not unreasonable to suddenly find the "two discs" rule of Gamecube to be broken apart by MGS2 and 3 directors cuts, which were the ones that did get ported to Xbox, to suddenly take up a huge amount of discs. Because, keep in mind, each disc has to contain the universal game data as well as the data that's exclusive to just that disc. So even if Konami thought it was possible, it just wasn't practical.

And, incidently, what does Double Fine have to risk by putting Psychonauts on Wii? Every hear of licensing fees? Disc pressings? Packaging? Distribution, advertising, and yes, even the cost of a Wii dev kit? I love people who think porting is somehow a cheap endeavor. Yes, it doesn't cost as much as new games (but then again, it's not like the "New" wii games are all that dazzling right now) but it's still a heavy investment. And for what?

IF a publisher picks it up, they pay Nintendo $6-$7 per copy of the game made. So let's say 200,000 was made. Well, for every $50 game, were you aware that a scant $7-$8 went to the developer? Think about that a minute. The content creators don't even make as much as the retail stores on new games considering that $50 game usually costs the store $38-$42. Oh yeah, all things considered, it would be a riskless endeaver to pump Psychonauts onto Gamecube or Wii.