Everytime you play a video game, a comic book dies
Since the 1980s, weekly British comic 2000AD -- makers of the famous Judge Dredd -- has seen its sales drop from 100,000 issues to just 20,000 issues today. The reason for the decline, according to artist Ian Gibson, is video games. Murder, violence, civil disobedience and now the demise of comics all grace gaming's lengthy rap sheet. "The comics market, sadly, is dying because the PlayStation has taken over and comics can't compete," said Gibson in speaking with the BBC. "Most comics I have come across haven't realized that they have lost the battle."Close up shop. It's over. But wait! Perhaps there is a glimmer of hope. Gibson continues by saying "[Comics] need to tell stories. They are not producing great literary works and I don't see why they shouldn't try." On the contrary, he claims "the PlayStation will never tell stories." That's right. Blame then offend a substitute product. And while it's obvious comics have to compete amongst a slew of entertainment for consumer attention, accusing video games instead of diversifying your product seems a bit short sighted.
[via Games Radar]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
AnimalTaglits @ Feb 27th 2007 7:31PM
"short cited"? Sounds like a pun I don't get.
Goldrush @ Feb 27th 2007 7:36PM
American comics seem to have recover from their slump.
PeterBeck @ Feb 27th 2007 7:38PM
I find it funny he blames games since as a fairly involved gamer, I still make weekly trips to my fave comic shop, and buy stacks of books.
Also, I love how he tosses out the claim that video games will never tell stories. Yes, we've yet to have solid narritive in a game that can compete with most films and books, but they still tend to make really good attempts at telling stories. Silent Hill, Halo, GTA, Elder Scrolls, Dynasty Warriors, Call of Duty, Halflife, Dead Rising, Final Fantasy, Rise of Legends, some of many games that take pretty good attempts at telling stories within gameplay.
vakerrokero @ Feb 27th 2007 7:44PM
The problem I see is monthly issues don't work anymore. If they created miniseries like twice every year or once a year, it would sell more and won't seems like squeezing every last drop of their wrtiers. Going from one story arc to another in the same issue seems like pretty crazy. Also making people buy every title you make for 7 months just to read "marvel's civil war" seems pretty nasty business practices.
They should do something like Alex Ross' Marvels or Frank Miller's Dark Knight oneshots.
Ken Seang @ Feb 27th 2007 7:46PM
You know what, if the comic book industry made their comics interactive like hotel dusk, then I believe they would have evolve. Also by merging with the game industries they could expand their market even further, but the mass majority of comic readers play video games. One more thing, if video games like story then why the people of comics join video games makers into creating great storyline with gameplay... I believe people are more interested in interactive novels since they can be on the go with the DS, its time for comics to change.
On a side note, I would love to see Batman: Hush turn into a game or an interactive novel like Hotel Dusk.
Miniboss @ Feb 27th 2007 7:47PM
Final Fantasy says "hi".
(01) @ Feb 27th 2007 7:48PM
Hmm, I mainly don't read a lot of comics anymore because of quality issues after Marvel reinvented their universe. Comics and gaming should go hand in hand (Marvel produced Halo series anyone?) and it seems to be a cop out to blame video games for a drop in sales.
vakerrokero @ Feb 27th 2007 7:53PM
Besides, he should be blaming World of Warcraft, that's where the nerds gather now...
comradetrotskii @ Feb 27th 2007 7:54PM
The tragedy here is that 2000AD contains so many characters and stories that would be nothing short of perfect for videogame adaption. It is owned by videogame developers Rebellion as well.
Splundig Vur Thrigg!
Sizer @ Feb 27th 2007 8:01PM
Of course part of this may be because in the early 90s 2000 AD started to completely SUCK. They have since returned to some fairly decent Thrillpower, but it's much harder to get readers back than it is to lose them in the first place.
CapAmerica @ Feb 27th 2007 8:06PM
I've been a life time comic book geek and if anything is killing off comics its not Videogames its the fact that most comics now a days are pretty damn weak most of them have grown dull & tired and are not worth the $2.99-3.99 price tag per issue. Also the fact that I can wait a year and pick up the Graphic Novel is also preventing me from picking up individual issues. Why drop $2.99-3.99 an issues over the course of a year when I can just drop $15-25 when the TPB comes out. I don't have to wait for the next issue and its actually cheaper.
The movie industry is the same way, 10 years ago I had no problem dropping $5 to see a mediocre movie in theaters every week. But now I'm extremely picky on what movie I drop $10 on (some times $14 if I want Popcorn).
it also doesn't help when companies end long running series and start messing with people's favorite characters. Just look at what DC did to Batgirl, Did they think the fans would be happy they did that? Did they think the fans would replace her series with one of their others? Hell No, When they ended Batgirl I actually scaled back my DC intake cause I was pissed off at them. And when Marvel messed with the X-men back in the Early 2000 (eXtram X-men and New X-men) did I keep reading them? No I dropped all X-Men comics cause to me they really screwed everything up. And I'm more then willing to bet that with most people, when you drop a series you rarely go back to it.
A tip for the Comic Book publishers. If you don't want to lose readers, DON'T MESS WITH THE SERIES!
DC leaned this with Gen13 and after a year of a so-so "new" Gen13 they went back and restarted the Original series. A very smart move. Cause of this I'm reading Gen13 again.
Tetrachromatic @ Feb 27th 2007 8:07PM
"The problem I see is monthly issues don't work anymore."
Uh, Marvel and DC have had massive year-over-year sales gains for, like, the past seven years. If anything, the comic book industry is the strongest its been in ... a long, long time. Monthly issues don't work anymore? Fuck, 52 is weekly and it's averaging 120,000 or so copies an issue.
Thanks for the grossly uninformed and retarded comment. Also, this story is baseless and misguided. 2000AD's drop off is because of their MASSIVE hemorrhage of talent. The 90s had dudes like Millar, Morrison and Hairsine. Today? Bleh. It's not selling because, relative to other choices at the LCS, it sucks a big fat dick.
What a worthless story.
Gavin @ Feb 27th 2007 8:10PM
Comics are too expensive and not even aimed at the proper audience anymore. When I was a kid, comics were for a broader range of readers and could easily be bought with your allowance. Now, comics are aimed at the older comic collectors and pretty much nobody else. The boom of the 90's killed the industry. They jacked up prices, switched to higher quality paper, started with multiple covers, bagged issues, constant crossovers and special events on a regular basis and it all went to hell.
Sorry comics industry, but you did this to yourself. Get back to your roots soon or all is lost.
Tetrachromatic @ Feb 27th 2007 8:16PM
" Comics are too expensive and not even aimed at the proper audience anymore."
Funny. Manga collections are HUGE sellers with the younger crowd and girls. Trade paperbacks have been moving substantial numbers at bookstores. Monthlies have been selling well across the board and weeklies are proving themselves on the market. The average price for a comic is $2.99 and the target demographic is 18-35. DC and Marvel are raking in the sales and big-budget comic movie successes are spotlighting a lot of great shit.
Congratulations on not having a clue in regards to this subject. Your uninformed opinion is noted, dismantled and discarded.
Keif @ Feb 27th 2007 8:24PM
this is kind of like when metalica blamed internet downloading for their shitty sales.
this guy just doesnt want to admit no one cares about gay ass judge dredd. If you want to balme anyone, blame stalone and that shitty movie.
CapAmerica @ Feb 27th 2007 8:24PM
@Tetrachromatic
I absolutly Hated New X-men, The story was okay, But the new mutations and the shitty art style made me stop reading after the first 4 issues. eXtream X-men I put up with for like 10 issues before I dropped it because the story was awful.
And Ya I read that issue of Teen Titans. I pick up Teen Titans every month. When I read that one I was like, oh good DC learned they made a HUGE mistake turning her into a Badguy. But until she is back as a goodguy and I'm holding a copy of Batgirl #74. I'm still going to be pissed off a DC for what they did.
Tetrachromatic @ Feb 27th 2007 8:26PM
"No I dropped all X-Men comics cause to me they really screwed everything up."
New X-Men was the best fucking thing to happen to the series in decades. Oh, and the Batgirl thing was covered in Teen Titans #43.
Gavin @ Feb 27th 2007 8:29PM
Sorry Tetrachromatic, but you are generalizing. The manga books are expensive but they give kids multiple stories with numerous characters for the price of ONE American comic. And yes, DC and Marvel's sales are up but that is because of the hyped event comics that happened last year. Infinite Crisis and Civil War were big sellers, but the trends for other books are down. The big boost to DC and Marvel recently has been the increase in TPB's being sold. In actuality though, the sell through rate of those hasn't been as strong as anticipated. What happened was that the big book retailers started to increase their stock of trades and ordered in large numbers...same with manga. Go into you local Barnes and Nobles and see how many trades they have in stock. Then go back a few weeks later and see how many of the same books are still sitting on the shelves. It's a lot. The industry and turned around from the craphole that it was in several years back, but it is nowhere near as strong as it used to be. You are looking at things through quite a small window of time.
The industry has not grown at the same rate as other entertainment venues or media formats. It stagnated a great deal in the 90's and suffered a huge setback. They managed to claw their way back to being profitable but it is nothing like where it should be.
Movies help but again they have lost the kids. That was a huge way to establish regular customers and to build a fanbase. Right now they are coasting on the established fanbase. Younger kids are getting into anime and manga now more than ever. When the older readers begin to drop out of mainstream comics, there will be another industry recession...just wait, it is coming soon.
jc @ Feb 27th 2007 9:06PM
Look at Marvel: they clawed their way out of 90s Hell, ran a couple years of readable books, then jumped right back into massive crossovers with "House of M" and "Civil War." Even variant covers are back. D.C. is burning their house down just as quickly. The sales spikes generated by these crossover events will, just as in the 90s, precede disaster as the normal folks wander away from increasingly unreadable books that sell only to the most obsessed nerds in the audience.
The problem isn't video games, the problem is that the clowns running the big two publishers don't understand or aren't interested in making a sustainable business model. The entire industry is tied, by the Direct Market, to how Marvel and D.C. perform. Those two are going to start alienating retailers again pretty soon and a lot of smaller publishers are going to go down with them. (With the shift to superhero films at Warner and the newly created Marvel Studios, it's hard to say if they'll even care if their own publishing divisions bite it.)
blank @ Feb 27th 2007 9:33PM
As someone who would like to get into comics, I find it a little difficult to do. A friend of mine, who seems a little more determined to get into comics, subscribed to one version or another of the X-men comics, and I just couldn't get into it. I'm familiar with the 90s TV series, and these were either characters I'd never heard of, or characters that had gone through so many changes they'd be on a complete different side. It seems like it's something impossible for a new person to get into.
I understand that the long running series are important, they might even be considered the backbone of the comics. However, as someone who wants to get into comics, I feel pushed away because I need an encyclopedia to read them.
I do like to pick up trade paperback (mostly Batman) every month or two, but I don't think I would ever pick up issue to issue. I much prefer my story arcs cut out for me. I'm much more interested in comics releasing miniseries. I think The Sandman made up about ten TPBs, that was almost perfect for me. I think I'd much prefer a number more around five, but it's still close to what I want.
It's not that I don't love some of the characters, (Batman and Nightcrawler are two I totally dig) but I can't get into them. I can't find a happy medium in this, I don't think these long stories should be cut off, but I still want to enjoy Batman. That Frank Miller about Batman coming out of retirement seems to be exactly what I'm looking for.
The New Noise Thriller @ Feb 27th 2007 10:10PM
To Tetrachromatic, you are exactly right. The comics industry has seen a recent revitalization and are pulling in huge numbers, some of the biggest they've seen. In fact, they are expanding the amounts of comis they are publishing every year. When you include things such as bringing in Steven King to write a Dark Tower series of comics (marvel) they are doing very well. Plus their movies (even if you don't like them) for both DC and Marvel are doing very well in the box offices and bringing in tonnes of dough for them.
And for those who don't like huge backstories to their comics, there are smaller self-contained series they can read. For those who don't like waiting every month they can pick up Trade Paper Backs to read.
AKA THEY ARE NOT IN A SLUMP!!!
I am not making any of this up. Anyone who disagrees should look at the numbers in terms of sales. Comics will be around for a while.
Ryuukuro @ Feb 27th 2007 10:13PM
Video games aren't killing comics. Comics are killing comics and everybody knows it. The DC universe is bland. The Marvel universe is a total mess (Thanks to Civil War and House of M.) Indie comics are good but too many people won't give them a try. And, for some reason, the old guard of comics won't accept Manga comics as comics.
That said, there are still bright points. Blank, for you I would suggest trying DC's All Star line and Marvel's Adventure line. Even Ultimate Marvel, which is younger and less cluttered with back story, is an easy entry into the major superheroes.
However, I think everyone should try the major graphic novels such as Watchmen and V for Vendetta (and anything else by Alan Moore.) And for completely different fare, there are lots of non adventure, non hero books like Blankets or Maus that are one story in one book (two in Maus' case) that show the strength of comics that aren't about super stuff.
Find a friendly comic book store (They do exist. Don't even acknowledge a store that is rude or cold to you.) or lurk in an online forum and then ask for recommendations. You'll get pointed straight to the good stuff and away from the crap and confusion.
supremespleen @ Feb 27th 2007 10:20PM
I buy comics and games. Oddly enough, I have never seen a new Judge Dredd comic at the comics shop.
bentheo @ Feb 27th 2007 11:53PM
What is funny is that one of my favorite xbox games is Rogue Trooper, which is a 2000AD comic.
Satan's Clause @ Feb 28th 2007 3:09AM
The funny thing about this is that it was video games that got me into comics.
I was never really into comics, I had a difficult time remembering to admire the art so to fully understand what I'm reading. Then, as a kid, I picked up an Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog and checked it out. It sort of got me used to not reading the damn thing like a regular novel. The first series I was actually serious about collecting was Tomb Raider. That paved the way for Army of Darkess, X-Files, and, out of curiosity, I began collecting Harley Quinn. The more I read, the more interested I am in comics. All thanks to a f'cking video game (or two). I'm still a comic newbie but soon my collection (60+ books) will grow and become much more diverse.
Dobey Kweeg @ Feb 28th 2007 3:42AM
"Also, this story is baseless and misguided. 2000AD's drop off is because of their MASSIVE hemorrhage of talent. The 90s had dudes like Millar, Morrison and Hairsine. Today? Bleh. It's not selling because, relative to other choices at the LCS, it sucks a big fat dick."
Did you ever read those Millar Morrison 2000ADs though Tetra? They were entirely awful, and it was this period that the comic shed most of it's audience - in recent years, the readership ahs gone up and down, but its mostly more stable than the free fall they experienced while "talents" like Millar were working their "magic"...
2000AD is as good as it's been for 20 years at the moment - its sad to think that 3 or 4 times as many people read Millar's "Judge Tyrannosaur" as are reading Wagner's "Origins"
As for Gibsons comments though - defeatist twaddle, I'll agree!
Arbuz Chokaro @ Feb 28th 2007 6:58AM
Why can't we be friends... why can't we be friends...?
Adam York @ Feb 28th 2007 7:37AM
The problem is:
look how much computer games have changed in the last 20 years, then look how much 2000 AD has changed.
You can't stand still when the world's spinning.
Jdoki @ Feb 28th 2007 9:45AM
Hang on... what's this???
PC and next gen consoles have online services... No way!!
Paper can be scanned in to these new fangled computers, AND in colour... Surely not!!!
The market for digital editions of books is growing... Holy business opportunity!!
Comics could be hosted on Xbox Live or made available over Steam or Playstation Network etc... Wow, futuristic!!!
A couple of pages could be made available for free download as a 'teaser' to get people interested in comics they haven't seen before... What Is This Craziness I Am Talking!?
Perhaps 2000AD would like to jump forward to 2007AD and realise that the delivery mechanisms are in place to reach a wider audience for very little outlay on their part.
samfish @ Feb 28th 2007 10:06AM
I don't know if I agree that comics are being killed by VIDEO GAMES, so much as they're being killed by just having more entertainment options available.
But that's the way it is. The more the world becomes integrated, the more choices we'll all get, which means that eventually, damn near EVERYTHING is going to be niche marketing. Even TV is becoming niche. Just look at what Joost is set to do. Or what TiVo has started already.
Even your precious video games aren't immune from this. You've already got your supposed Nintendo and Microsoft niches...and you could divide the games themselves into niches all you wanted, too.
Yeah, I'd also hardly say video games have good stories. They don't. Even the ones people hold in such high esteem have relatively crappy stories that are usually on par with the writing in a summer action movie...and THOSE are the GOOD stories!
"And Ya I read that issue of Teen Titans. I pick up Teen Titans every month. When I read that one I was like, oh good DC learned they made a HUGE mistake turning her into a Badguy. But until she is back as a goodguy and I'm holding a copy of Batgirl #74. I'm still going to be pissed off a DC for what they did."
It's probably worth pointing out that Adam Beechen, who is writing Robin (Where Batgirl went bad) is also slated to start writing Teen Titans after Geoff Johns leaves, if memory serves.
Beechen has shown to be a good writer, over all, so it makes me wonder if this wasn't planned from the start.
That said, Batgirl's sales were pretty low when they canceled the book, IIRC. I love Batgirl, but you can't really blame them.
I wish they'd let Gail Simone write a new Batgirl book...but then, I wish they'd let Gail Simone write everything, so...
Anyway, I believe that if you look at the numbers comics are selling, they're still no where NEAR where they were in the mid-ninties when they were selling like a million+ issues of Spawn and such.
I love comic books and I buy them every week, but I'm not going to defend the industry when it's making a bunch of huge mistakes.
Someone also said that mangas cost the price of one comic.........uhm...wha? Mangas cost about 10 bucks a pop while comics are about 3 bucks a piece. Granted, you get more bang for your buck, story-wise, with a manga, but it's typically in black and white and uses a crappier quality paper. Of COURSE cost is going to be less.
That said, I've been advocating for comic publishers to start moving to a monthly trade format for a while now. But I'm not dumb, either. Bear in mind that in Japan, where most manga comes from, stories are typically released in 10-15 page parts and eventually also compiled into the collected manga.
Comics DO have a lot of problems. They need to make a serious effort to get themselves back into stores and on grocery store racks again. They WILL sell if they do that. Marvel made a half-assed attempt by making a deal with 7-11 to sell books there, but...who the fuck even GOES to a 7-11? I've lived in 3 states and I can honestly count on one hand the number of times I've even SEEN a 7-11!
They don't have the visibility of a Wal-Mart or any number of grocery store operation chains.
Thad @ Feb 28th 2007 11:37AM
As other commenters have already pointed out, the comics industry is in MUCH better shape than it was a decade ago. Or is that not the case in the UK?
Dominion @ Feb 28th 2007 12:46PM
I've worked for Marvel's licensing department for over several years. Looking at the fiscal numbers year to year we don't even make a true profit with comic books anymore. At least not enough to appease our shareholders.
I'm sure it comes to no ones shock but Marvel makes close to 80% of their revenue from merchandising, licensing, and film/tv. Comic books are supported only to keep their intellecual property relevant. So comic books have been dead for a long time.
machewchew @ Feb 28th 2007 2:09PM
Here's the line I don't understand:
"[Comics] need to tell stories. They are not producing great literary works and I don't see why they shouldn't try."
Speigelman, Moore, Miller, Gaiman, Bendis, just to name a few?
JohnHeist @ Feb 28th 2007 3:35PM
Comics less, but there is a cool comic store downtown I keep meaning to go check out.
Graphic Novels I'm really digging at the moment though.
The Walking Dead, Battle Pope, Invincible, Marvel 1602, Marvel Zombies, The Last Christmas...etc
Really looking forward to "Marvel Zombies VS Army of Darkness"
*I know most of these start out as Comics, and most are published by IMAGE, but I have a hard time tracking down comics around here so I get the Graphic Novel TPCs lol*
GhaleonQ @ Feb 28th 2007 10:35PM
To be fair, complex comic books (Bone, Cerebus) and a few graphic novels are slightly above video games in storytelling terms. Of course, neither have literature-quality tales, yet.
calthaer @ Mar 1st 2007 4:48PM
Comics that are well-written are most likely not experiencing any problems. I don't see the Marvel Ultimate line suffering at all.
If people want crappy stories, then most video games do that really well. Especially those inane JRPGs.
Mr Khan @ Mar 1st 2007 5:25PM
I agree that the constant changes characters and series seem to go through is what hurts comics so much, I was really into the Avengers back in the mid-to-late 90s, and still have a lot for retro Avengers comics (basically everything up to and including the war with the Kree)
Plus, games like PSO, Metroid Prime, Halo, and the Final Fantasies all seem to deliver the same level of deep-but-not-too-deep storylines combined with action that make comics so compelling, so i suppose games are slightly to blame
ArioNeko @ Mar 2nd 2007 7:12AM
Really comics are dying? If the old isn't working do what the Japanese did an expand your market. While once manga sales were generally targeted to young males they have steadily expanded penetrating near every major book store with their 'graphic novels' and have more than quadrupled in size and successfully penetrating the female market and creating a quite large female readership.
If I may quote ICv2 President Milton Griepp "It's a great time for fans of the comics medium, there's a wider range of material, of higher quality, than at any time in the last 50 years."
Indeed he is right. Its just too bad its not coming from you guys and thats why you are whining. Diversify adapt and overcome. Notice the changes in the market and change accordingly. The graphic novel counterpart to comics are at all time highs. Graphic novel sales are at $330 million and comics at $310 million. Combined thats $640 million and numbers that haven't been seen from this industry since the early 90s.
I don't think the industry is dying at all tis simply changing and some people can't accept it.