PS3 'PlayStation Home' launches fall '07, confirms NY Times

rabish:
I was using my Apple ][ TG Products analog thumbstick in the 70s. I have no idea what you mean tilt detection. There's no such thing on any of them. All are analog sticks.

No, the Sega CD didn't have what are memory cards, nor the Sega Saturn. Both stored their saves internally to the unit, like 3DO. The Saturn (and I think the CD) could also take a memory card in the slot, but thus was just used to "back up" your saves, perhaps so you could move them around. Some Saturn games even required using a RAM expansion card in the Saturn slot, so you had to swap cards. PS1 was first to put your saves on a memory card, so that you could easily take it to your friends places, like you always could with a battery backed cart (since Zelda).

Your homebrew statement is specious. Yes, programs even existed before consoles. No Tetris wasn't homebrew, it didn't even come out for console for some time and by then it was already with a big publisher. Homebrew for the masses (as opposed to hacked consoles, which have always existed) didn't exist until NetYaroze.

Sony was first to adopt DVD storage media. That's an innovation. Your argument that anyone else could have though of it applies to XBLA too. You think if XBLA hadn't come around, no one else would have online services that sell stuff?

Good point on the Dreamcast local LAN play. I don't really count handhelds in this list, but even not counting that, Jaguar had the ability to connect consoles, even to Lynxes (long before Crystal Chronicles).

BluRay: same as DVDs? Give me a break. People still argue Sony shouldn't have done it and you want to argue it's not an innovation? People rarely come out against something that isn't even new.

Bluetooth:
PS3 came out before Wii. PS3's Bluetooth connectivity was announced a year before Wii was announced. I never said it was unique, I said it was their innovation. Yes, 360 uses a wireless connection (which I like better than the PS3 Bluetooth controllers), and the Wavebird predated both. 3rd parties beat both to the punch (also with motion sensing).

Dreamcast didn't have an online community. You want to call a browser a community? It's not. SegaNet and such cost money, but it was even less of a community than XBAND (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XBAND) was. Neither counts. They're more of a tracker service than a community.

I think it would be neat if somebody with more time and sony hate than me would collect various quotes from Sony executives bashing Live and Mii's and achievements and any other aspect that they have later went on to immitate. Have a whole "what they said then vs. what they are saying now" thing. It is so embarrassing to be called out on a flip-flop.

If the roles would have been reversed and microsoft would have copied sony's online strategy, all you PS3 fanboys would have been screaming bloody murder!

"Oh it's okay to take an idea and improve on it."
" I don't see anything wrong with what Sony is doing."

Gimme a break Sony sucks just admit it. They have lost there mojo, and all who support Sony even longer will only be disappointed at the end.

Dreamcast not having an online community LS??

you kidding?? what do you call NFL2K and PSO? with a modem connection inside the box? not even PS2 did that.



.

Digi:
A community is outside of any games. Like Live or such. It also has more than just matchmaking.

PSOs community is only for PSO.

If you want to say I'm crazy for making such a slim definition, that's fine. I thought it was relevant, but maybe I'm wrong.

I like your screen name.

LS2,

I have to disagree with you as well. While you can argue that Sony somehow innovated in some way with many of those features, I would hardly call it real innovation.

Using a storage medium available to the masses to store content on is hardly innovative. You could say Sony as a company was innovative in helping come up with Blu-ray. But using it as a storage medium for something that requires a storage medium is hardly "innovative". It's obvious.

The same thing goes for Bluetooth. Using a system that transmits information wirelessly over a short distance in a device that requires precisely that is hardly innovative. All Sony did for DVD, Blu-ray, and Bluetooth was use a newer mass market technology that better filled the exact same need as something previous. They are just using newer technologies in the most obvious way possible.

I'm really not saying immitation it is a bad thing. If I were a PS3 owner, I'd be happy as hell to hear more good stuff is coming to my system. Who cares if it is stolen?

The bottom line is that this will not save their failed PS3.

@Gitten

For the consumer, It IS ok for a company to take another companies idea and improve on it. It happens EVERY day in the business world. The only party that gets the shaft is the original company that chooses not to improve on their own ideas. As a consumer, you shouldn't care about where the idea comes from, or what company the idea benefits. You should only care about the experience you are given when you purchase something.

Plus, if it wasn't for the "copy and improve", we'd all have Fords. Can you imagine a world with just Fords? /shudder

People who still feel the need to defend Sony, a company who clearly doesn't care that much about their consumers, should be studied for the sake of science.

Clearly all companies are out to make money but they have be the most arrogant. The fans just eat it up and beg for more. The selective memory is very interesting. I have absolutely no interest in the PS3 (I'm happy with just the Wii), but it's like watching your neighbor slap his girlfriend around. You feel the need to step in and say something.

The fact is that the PS3 is a huge success regardless of what you poor saps claim. It's too good and too expensive for you. Don't bother with HD or Blu-Ray, they're the future and the future is designed to leave you in the dust. Go hold your 360's and Wii's close to yourselves as they are your only salvation from the massive success that Sony is. The PS3 will dominate the landscape of game consoles for the next millennium.

PS3_OR_DIE
Obviously a thread just to flame. You're a moron. I dont look at my ps3 as a huge success - while it sits there without games to play. The units sitting in the stores all over the place so soon after launch also hurt that argument.

2 times this week I have seen people go to buy a ps3 and decide they shouldn't spend that much money while standing at the register. No matter how "poor" some of you think everyone out there is - the masses don't have a lot of cash to drop on a machine such as this. Good marketing should take that reality into consideration.

I'm sorry, but this is just a fucking stupid concept.

I'm sure some people want to bop around a Second Life/Nintendo rip off virtual world with elements of XBLA thrown in...
...But I'm willing to bet that I and most people would much rather just select from a list of games and start playing them. Not have to walk around in some crappy 3D world and find the games I want to play.

Weak.

But hey. If you're into that crap, more power to ya. Have fun dealing with all the furries and virtual pedos, though.

@113:

By tilt detection, I mean tilt detection. If you tilt the stick slightly in N64 games, your character on screen moves slowly. Tilt it more, he moves faster. As far as I know, the systems you mentioned didn't do that.

The Sega CD saves games to specialized cartridges, which are essentially the same thing as memory cards (except, of course, that they're far less portable). As for the Saturn, by your own admission it allowed for memory cards that could be used to back up your saves and move them around. That is a memory card. The fact that the console was also capable of saving games internally doesn't change that any more than being able to save games to an Xbox hard drive makes its memory units cease to be memory units.

Tetris was homebrew. It was made by a man in his free time, and was originally distributed freely. Yes, it was eventually published commercially, but it was still homebrew to start with. As for the others, homebrew is still primarily an affair for hacked consoles with the only current platform that support homebrew on non-hacked systems being the Xbox 360, so I wouldn't really call that a major innovation.

XBLA was an innovation because of the way that it implemented the features, and the way that it offered a unified service. That's not necessarily something that would have happened, and it likely wouldn't have happened by now without the Xbox. DVDs aren't like that - EVERY console uses a new, better medium for storing its games, and disc-based media was already becoming the standard, so it's not only unlikely that others wouldn't have adopted DVDs without Sony but also completely impossible. You can't credit something like that to Sony (though you could credit them for their hand in actually creating DVDs).

In saying that Blu-Rays are DVDs, I mean that they're a similar situation. It's just Sony using a larger medium, something that's been constantly happening with all platforms since they industry created. Claiming that this is innovation on their part is like claiming that making the PS3 more powerful than the PS2 was an innovative idea.

The PS3 came out very, VERY shortly before the Wii, it's not exactly a large gap. Also, Bluetooth is merely a method of commmunicating with other devices, and there are several such methods, all of which are entirely acceptable. Both the 360 controller and the Wavebird do it with other methods, but they did do it before the PS3 did so I think it's a bit of a stretch to include this on your list.

PS2 didn't exactly have a community either. I have one, and I've used it online. Some games have individual online gameplay systems created and supported by their developers, but there are (were?) similar games for the Dreamcast, where the online play was supported solely by developers. Of course, that popped up later so that may not be acceptable to you, but if that's the case then you can take a look at the Sega Saturn (which also offered online play, and did it for free as far as I know).

LS2

here is a sega saturn Memory Card

http://www.raidentech.com/sesa8mbinmec.html

If the saturn didn't have them than why can you buy them.

The analog stick on the N64 or later is a Digital analog stick it recognized 256 states through an 8-bit DAC. The analog sticks on the older systems were resistance based. Nintendo even stated it was an old idea with new technology before they introduced it. Its application to 3d was the important and innovative thing and a change that would not likely have come from Sony.

NEC Turbographix 16 was the first to have a CD drive and was able to play music.

The Saturn had a MPEG card to play movies.

3D0 could play music as well and was the first system to do 3D.


DVD and Bluetooth are and were established consumer electronics standards by the time of their implementation into consoles. Same goes for USB and Firewire.

Perfect Dark was supposed ot use the camera for the N64 than columbine happened and Nintendo didn't want bad press about students putting their teachers face into the game so they could shoot them.

Blu-Ray is an expensive add-on a forced innovation to push a new standard. Its usage in games is still questionable at the moment. While more space is alwasy a good thing adding a significant percentage to the price is not. It is no more innovative than Nintendo's mini discs or UMD and does not really effect gaming itself.

Systems with CDs before the PS1

3D0
Neo Geo CD
Pc Engine CD
Jaguar CD(Highlander LOL)
Sega CD
CD-I(Ironically from the same source as the Playstation, failed nintendo project)


and for you mac people out there. Mac stole the entire GUI it used from Xerox PARC and did a horrible job at it to boot really butchering what was a much more advance GUI at the time.

Uh ohs, I can see it now. Sony blackballs NY Times!

The problem with a company who constantly borrows other companies ideas with little to no ideas of their own is that there system will remain stagnat. Look at the controller it is the same since the Dual Shock. MS and Nintendo changed their controller on their own without following another companies lead. Especially since Sony is the market leader it is important for them to at least try and introduce new stuff. Without nintendo or MS the PS3 would just be a backwards compatable upgraded PS1 with MAYBE a skeleton online system. And the only reason that would be is because of SOEE and EQ and SWG.

NATO_Duke

Obviously you're just another non-owner 360 Fanboy coming out to try and make it look like you have some class rather than simply being another zit on the ass of society with your 360 in hand awaiting the popping pinch that's coming your way. STFU asshole. Quit lying to everybody like that, it makes you 360 fanboys look retarded.

@redspear

I guess it is a good thing for Sony that we live in a world with MS and Nintendo, huh. Without them, Sony wouldn't have anyone to improve on. Hmm, Strangely, it sounds like competition is causing improvement on consumer goods. What a novel concept!

@80:
Alright, enough. Most people apparently don't know what innovation actually is.
Innovation ISN'T about who did what first. It's creating a superior system or fulfilling a desire that wasn't previously there.
Thus, YES. Mii avatars AREN'T "original". But, for a console, they ARE innovative. They're something that previously didn't exist on a console, and now that they do, there is a huge desire for them.

Let's to through your list and pick the REAL innovations.

"PS1:
Memory cards
music playback
Dual analog sticks
homebrew (NetYaroze)"

Of these, MAYBE only Net Yaroze is innovative. And It's debatable whether giving Dev. kits to a hobbyist is innovation, though. A good idea, but not innovative.
Memory cards aren't innovative. They came about as a result of NEEDING to find an effective way to save games on a CD based system.
Music playback isn't innovative. It's a CD based system. It would be stupid if it DIDN'T have music playback.
Dual analogs aren't innovative. This was just Sony copying and improving upon Nintendo's concept. Nintendo's analog was innovative, even though they didn't first come up with the analog joystick idea.


"PS2:
DVD storage media
movie playback
USB
locally linked play (i.link/IEEE1394/Fireware on GT3)
EyeToy (cameras)
able to be turned turn on and off from a remote (PS2+/Slim)
TV integration (PSX. oh, and yuck)"

•DVD storage isn't innovative. It's evolution from •CDs.
•Ditto movie playback.
•USB is innovative, I suppose. That's 1. Finally.
• Eyetoy is debatable, but because it by and large didn't work worth a crap, I'd say it's a good concept, but not innovative.
• I don't know enough about locally linked play to comment on it.
• turn the system off with the controller...I don't know if it's innovative, but I'll give it to you. That's 2.
• PSX was a DVR with the ability to play PS2 games. That's not innovative. That's making a DVR/Media Center and throwing in a PS2 engine.

"PS3:
BluRay
Bluetooth
HDMI
free online community
standard rechargeable wireless controller (okay, that one is kinda weak)"

•Bluray is another evolution.
•Given that the Wii also has Bluetooth, that isn't an innovation. It's just a technology integrated into the console to communicate with the wireles controller. There's a difference between that and PS2's USB.
• HDMI is not an innovation. Just another evolution up from standard AV cables.
• And yes, rechargable wireless controller is weak and hardly an innovation.

PS3_or_die,

this Playstation Home thing is kinda cool. but still what's this have to do with actual games? same with blu-ray.

i'll tell you what matters in games, the graphics card. and we'll have to wait for PS4 for that to be better than 360's. no matter how many Homes, HDMIs, Blu-Rays, PSPs or Blutooths you have.

i have a PS3, and after today, i'll have two whole games for it. you gonna call me a liar too?



.

@samfish

I'm sure if I made up definitions for things I could rip apart any fanboy's arguments, regardless if it had merit or not. You are trying to create a definition for innovation that proves you are right, and you are wrong in doing so.

Opening up this thing we have for the english language, called a dictionary, we find that Innovation is simply "something new or different introduced." Which probably goes along with a few more points than you give him credit for, or would probably take away a few more points that you give Nintendo credit for.

Thanks LS, it was either this name or Ol' Digi Bastard. or Kid Sega.

and yeah, gotta call you crazy on that Dreamcast bit. Phantasy Star and NFL were trailblazing online console milestones. this little machine was doing this years before Socom and Madden on PS2.

Live's innovation was the unified online console experience.

HOME looks cool, but will i be able to talk to and invite a friend who's playing something else from the middle of a game i'm playing?

you should read this: http://www.innerbits.com/blog/2007/03/01/ps3-online-friends-and-cross-game-features/



.

PS3_OR_DIE

LMAO ok asshat - Thanks for telling me what is or isn't sitting in my living room right now. I am a fan of each gaming machine that I own, but know when one has problems. I have no idea what makes you able to call me a liar without knowing a damn thing I own - but I don't really care what such a lame ass fanboy thinks anyway. BTW - will I be seeing you post your bs in the Sony G.A.P. forums, or are you not a member of that one? Fucking twit.

Rabish12:
What you call tilt is just being analog. All these sticks mentioned are analog. The 5200, the Apple ][.

Sega CD saves sames to the Sega CD internal memory, like a 3DO. You can move these to memory cards if you'd like. I don't believe the memory cards even debuted with the Saturn, it came later to address the problem 3DO had with people buying enough games to fill up the internal memory. None of the systems was designed to let you take your games with you like Zelda. PS1 memory cards did that.

But now that I think of it, the NeoGeo had it before any of these, in the arcade model even.

Tetris wasn't homebrew. PCs don't have homebrew. Homebrew is a console thing. Every game at the time was written by some guy at home. Even biggies like Pinball Construction Set were written by a single person. You're trying to call virtually all programming of the time homebrew. It's not. Homebrew is making a console (which at the time was a lot cheaper than a PC) available to program to the public.

XBLA is just selling games. I think you're confusing Live with XBLA. All this voice chat and stuff is really Live 360. XBLA is like iTunes for games. You think no one else would have figured out how to sell games to consoles without MS?

I do credit Sony for using DVD first, just like I credit MS for coming up with XBLA, even though software and games had been sold online for PCs before.

As to BluRay. The other two didn't do it. So I guess it isn't a slam dunk, is it? And you say making a console more powerful isn't innovating? I'm not saying the idea of being more powerful isn't new, but a particular way of doing it can be innovative.

PS3 was designed VERY VERY long before the Wii. Thus Sony was working on Bluetooth a long time ahead. They announced it first, shipped it first. That's an innovation. 360 and Wavebird use other methods I actually think work better then Bluetooth for controllers, but that's not the point. Bluetooth will allow other kinds of device to work, like any phone headset you want. Which of the other two consoles does that? Sounds like an innovation to me.

PS2 didn't have a community. It had communities for certain games, but no real online community. Saturn and Dreamcast were the same in this way. I never implied Sony was responsible for this innovation.

redspear:
Saturn memory cards were an add-on, and not the primary way of saving. They were a hack for the 3DO problem. I don't think they even came out in the beginning, only later.

Now you're getting into how the analog stick was encoded. Grey codes weren't invented by Nintendo, and they are most effective in making something cheaper, not changing how the user uses it. The camera work in Mario 64 was an innovation (even if not perfect), as evidenced by crappy 3D platformers before it, like Bug (Saturn). However, I'm not getting into software innovations here. There's just too many.

I didn't know the TG-16 could play music.

Good point about the Saturn card, although it was an add-on and only played VCDs. I originally had "DVd playback" on the PS2, but removed it when I decided that "BluRay playback" wasn't an innovation worth mentioning. So I changed "DVD playback" to "movie playback" and made myself incorrect.

SNES did 3D before the 3DO with Starfox. 3DO was awful at 3D, BTW. It was a 2D sprite-engine based system.

It doesn't matter whether DVD or Bluetooth existed, or USB or Firewire. It was how they were used. PS2 used USB to allow steering wheels, cameras and memory sticks to be plugged in. The foresight to put on USB allowed many extra capabilities. It was an innovation that paid off.

Perfect Dark didn't use the camera in the end, and EyeToy is more than just taking pictures. It's a crappy picture, it's the way that it allowed you to use your body motions as movement that was an innovation (on consoles).

Your judgement on BluRay is irrelevant. As I said above, I think Bluetooth was poorly used for controllers on PS3. Whether the innovation is one you like isn't particularly relevant. It's an innovation.

I don't know why you list units with CDs before PS1. I never said PS1 was first to have CD. Read my post.

samfish:
If you think memory cards are a necessity for a CD based system, you never saw 3DO. It didn't have them, and it caused problems that PS1 never experienced because Sony thought it out first (and found an opportunity to soak the customer for $30) and 3DO didn't.

Saturn couldn't play CDs. So I guess it wasn't obvious to everyone.

Nintendo's putting one analog stick on (that had been done before) in a way that made some of the controller buttons difficult to use was innovative and Sony putting two on (which hadn't been done before) in a place that left all the buttons still useable easily isn't? That doesn't make sense.

Eyetoy works fine, I don't know what you're saying. And you say it's a concept but it's not innovative? Isn't innovation coming up with new concepts?

PS2 wasn't first to let you turn it off remotely, Xbox did that first I believe. PS2 (PS2+ and slim) was first to let you turn it on remotely. Having to cross the room to turn something on and off is so 1970.

PSX was innovative. It's dumb, but innovative. People blab about MS' IPTV, and PSX was like that but before that. I don't like either of them, but saying it isn't an innovation doesn't make sense to me.

Wii was designed and announced after PS3 was already announced. PS3 did the innovation. Just because later people do it doesn't mean it wasn't innovative when Sony did it.

Ask anyone how 1080p works on 360 and you'll see how HDMI is innovative. It's a standard connector (another thing N and MS don't seem interested in) and allows you to use the capabilities of your machine with a lot more TVs. Go ahead and say it was necessitated by evil DRM, fine. But I know plenty of people with 360s and 1080p TVs who can't use 1080p because MS thought component was enough. My friends with PS3s have no such problems.

Rechargeable wireless controller is weak? Maybe. When I use one that isn't (Wii) or have to pay $12 to make it so (360 Premium, while 360 core isn't even wireless), I realize that it is an innovation, because it changes how I play.

Digi:
I'm with you. I'm nervous about HOME. What I want is chat and invites, and I don't care about walking around and selling T-shirts like Second Life. I hope Sony gets the basics right as well as the flash. I do, finally, at least feel Sony does understand what the basics are in the online arena, now they have to do them, and do them well.

LS2

Jaguar had a full 3D textured game in Highlander and a bunch of gourad shaded games.

Sony did not invent the DVD. They only joined the SuderDensity disc forum with the request that they allow EFMPlus which was developed by Phillips. So if you are going to discount what has been done before oyu have to discount that. The implementation of the digital analog stick with respect to 3D games is what makes it innovation. Not to mention it was unique enough to have its own patent. Dual Screen has been down before wiht the Game and Watch yet it is constantly referred to as innovative.

Not too mention if the analog stick wsa not innovative than both sega and sony would not of copied it. Sony has to be getting credit for implementing a better desing and adding a click to it but it was not the catalyst for change.

Blu Ray is the result of Sony not wanting to compromise

The port for the card was in the Saturn at the begining. I think both sony and sega knew the issue before hand even nintendo has a memory card for the N64.

Eye toy is an add on I thought you weren't talking abot add ons. But Eye toy does not work fine. If you have lights on or near and far iamges. I like the eye toy though.

The thing is that Sony doesn't just copy it relies on other companies to catalize a change. Than it copies what ever it sees fit like Second Life.

What does textured games have to do with anything? If you're referring to 3D, I never said Sony invented 3D consoles, SNES beat both of them to it.

I never said Sony invented the DVD any more than anyone else said Nintendo invented analog joysticks. Sony put DVD drives in consoles first.

The digitalness of the N64 analog stick yields nothing but cost savings. It's immaterial to the user. I don't disagree that N used analog sticks well in 3D games. I'm just not covering software innovation, there's too much of it to cover here. N putting an analog stick on a controller was actually less innovative than shoulder buttons on SNES, IMHO.

Sega had an analog stick at the same time as Nintendo, regardless.

I don't see your comment about BluRay being Sony not compromising. If you're referring to BluRay vs. HD-DVD, unless you were involved in the negotiations, you have no way to know why Sony and Toshiba couldn't reach an agreement, so blaming Sony is just injecting your own feelings.

The port on the Saturn was there from the beginning. The PS1 also had a port on the back which was used for the Gameshark. Both were just general purpose ports. I do agree both companies saw the problems with the 3D0 (customers couldn't buy new games because their console was full, it didn't even have a save manager so they could delete old saves). But Sega decided to fix it by adding an optional expensive memory card that you would transfer saves to. Sony decided to move the saves onto a personalized card, thus solving both the fullness problem and the problem of not being able to take your save games to friends' houses terribly easily and make a revenue opportunity at the same time. It made a big difference to the user. It was a Sony innovation. N64 came 18 months later than PS1, it's not relevant here.

You're right about addons and what I was saying. That's a good point. I was really referring to the gameplay brought by EyeToy more than the device itself. But if you want to exclude it, that's fair.

I still feel your judgemental statement about Sony relying on other companies to catalyze a change is unfounded.