Mark Rein says no Unreal Engine 3 for Wii
The Wii is taking a beating this week at GDC by American developers. Between hushed conversations and public displays, it isn't pretty. Epic's vice president, Mark Rein, has never hid his feelings for the Wii. While discussing Unreal Engine 3 games in development for the Xbox 360, he was asked if they'd develop anything for the Wii's Virtual Console?"Ummmmm, well, this is kinda a high definition engine. Designed for a certain level of graphics card and certain amount of CPU. You know, I'm sure one of our licensees will squeeze it down into the Wii. The way Ubisoft squeezed Unreal Engine 2 into the PSP," he explained in a little bit more detail exactly why the Wii and Unreal Engine 3 won't become best buddies, "Unreal Engine 3 is designed for a high level shader architecture and the Wii doesn't have that. I mean, you know, it's just not what we've been aiming for, so it's not something we're looking to do or support."
Rein wouldn't go into any details at the number of companies, or cost, to license the Unreal 3 Engine. He says the license is cheap, "We only saw a splinter of the money from Splinter Cell." Epic hopes to sell Unreal 3 mods on Xbox Marketplace. They also said they'd be coming out with a textbook for schools on the Unreal Engine 3.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Scumdog @ Mar 9th 2007 12:38AM
@ #49
Nice of you to list what Nintendo has released over the years without touching on the innovations within those particular titles (for example: the transition from 2D to 3D, the integration of analog control, advancements like lock-on targeting).
But it goes further. You can also thank Nintendo for rescuing the gaming industry from certain doom, inctroducing the d-pad, shoulder button, analog stick, rumble feedback, first-party wireless, four-player gameplay, and now motion control.
Take all of this away and where would the industry be and where would we be heading? Nintendo isn't the end all company when it comes to video games but it's companies like Nintendo that keep the industry moving forward.
Crono @ Mar 8th 2007 7:31PM
Duh? We've known this since like 2 years ago.
Z-247 @ Mar 8th 2007 7:34PM
I know GoW was made with this, but part of that game's success is from its style. So what is it about Unreal Engine 3 that is so amazing? What does it do that no competing engine can offer?
Really, why is it talked about as if it was the *only* 3d engine on earth, and that if you don't have it in your game you have nothing?
I don't want to start a fight here, I really don't get what makes it so (vastly?) superior.
Frankie @ Mar 8th 2007 7:36PM
That's a classier response than the Heckler guy.
tehArtist @ Mar 8th 2007 7:38PM
@2
Thats a simple answer...naive little fanboy's.
playclever @ Mar 8th 2007 7:41PM
Holy crap! Wii doesn't have a high level shader architecture! Run for the f***ing fields!
you know @ Mar 8th 2007 7:41PM
sigh... more developer hubris...
dumbasses
comtar @ Mar 8th 2007 7:44PM
Was the interviewer some Wii-fanboy or something? I love the Wii myself but Christ, how about we ask the Crytek people if Crysis is going to make it to the Wii. No? WTF! Hey you think MGS4 is coming on the Wii? No?! OMG a bad week for the Wii!
Maybe someone will ask someone at GDC if we expect to see Doom 3 on DS or even GBA. No?! DS Haters!
These are idiotic questions asked by idiotic people, that's like asking if Contra III is coming out on the old school green and black screened Gameboy. Oh... they ported Contra III onto it? Why in the world would you do that?
P.S. Hey is Konami there? Ask someone at Konami if they are ever going to get started on Axelay 2.
Darkness @ Mar 8th 2007 7:45PM
You know. I'm an Indie game developer and after meeting some other game developers, I've come to the conclusion that American developers are ALL about the graphics. It's not about the gameplay, but about how something can look cool. To be honest, it gets annoying. Of course the American designers are complaining about the Wii. It's against their very fabric. The idea is over their heads. The funny thing is, I'm an American and I think games are about the gameplay and should always be that way.
So a lot of them will pay lip service to the idea Nintendo is trying to convey, but they don't really believe it. I doubt they ever will. Which is fine, but the people who really lose out are the gamers.
I've never been a big Nintendo fan. I owned all systems over the years, but was always more of a Sega fan. The Dreamcast is my alltime favorite system. But I agree with where Nintendo is going these days and what they stand for. Gaming has gotten stale for me, even to the point where I don't even want to finish my own projects. Eventually something has to give. So I applaud Nintendo, by more than just lip service, I actually camped for 16 hours to get one.
Hopefully these American developers will get off of their soapbox and look at what's important. No growth for our business and everyone loses. It gets harder to pull in money from investors and harder to sell games.
To listen to these guys rant, just makes me sad. Good artists, don't need state of the art equipment to make good games. They fear change, and that's all there is to it.
KVN @ Mar 8th 2007 7:45PM
Geezs talk about beating a dead horse enough already.
Rubang B @ Mar 8th 2007 7:46PM
You mean I paid $250 for a system without a high level shader architecture? Damn, well... time to make $300 on eBay.
Jon-Angelo @ Mar 8th 2007 7:47PM
@4, getting defensive already? He just asked someone to explain what's so great about UE3. I don't remember him saying, "Wii is teh greetest Microsuks and Phony are the suxxorz. PCs are 4 lozerz!" But if that's what you took from his question then, well, more power to ya I guess.
Anyway, this was already a given. I'd be okay with Gamecube type graphics IF most of the Wii games actually had Gamecube type graphics. Thank god for my PC, 360 and PS3 I guess.
Baby21 @ Mar 8th 2007 7:47PM
Too bad, and it is also bad for Wii future as well.
In a year time, I hope there won't be too many developers got tried of old gen graphics or limit to AI etc..
pezman726 @ Mar 8th 2007 7:48PM
If I could get a textbook on it, that'd be freaking awesome!!!!!
Rubang B @ Mar 8th 2007 7:52PM
Good thing I don't give a crap about American developers anyway. The United States is a magical place where movies like Ghost Rider (27% at Rotten Tomatoes) and The Covenant (3%) debut at #1 at the box office, and Madden is the best selling game of the year.
This guy can take his shaders and shove them up his well-rendered ass.
Z-247 @ Mar 8th 2007 8:07PM
So wait, nobody has an answer as to what makes UE3 so cool? I'm really confused- there must be some reason it's the best on the market or else we wouldn't have it come up so much, right? It has to have some serious advantage, or is it just that it's the only engine everyone knows the name of?
Scumdog @ Mar 8th 2007 8:13PM
Watch the first trailer on this page:
http://media.wii.ign.com/media/748/748588/vids_1.html
The Wii can do enough graphically unless that's all you care about. While everyone says "Give the PS3 a year and it will have tons of great games..." Give the Wii a year and it will be the next DS, with tons of quality, innovative games out that leave the competition wishing they'd changed course.
Seriously, GoW is beautiful and repetitive, RFoM is pretty much your standard shooter, and UT3 will be more of the same only prettier. Who cares? Give me something fun. That's why I game.
Grindstone @ Mar 8th 2007 8:15PM
Rubang, I take it you shy away from all games made by American developers? Bungie, Take Two, Epic, etc? I sure hope so, otherwise you would come off very hypocritical. I bet you see Ghost Rider as well, but then, since when did you trust the critics anyway?
Darkness, Gears of War does not sell +3 million copies on just being a pretty game -- it has really fun gameplay as well. Grand Theft Auto is not graphically impressive, but it is also fun. Then there's Halo... the list goes on and on. Perhaps the soapbox under your feet made it harder for you to see that.
Just because you may decide to develop a game for the Wii does not mean it'll automatically be fun. The Wii already has games that are not fun using the Wiimote. Whether or not the Wii can run a full version of the UE3 engine probably will not make much of a difference in terms of fun gameplay either, developers will find a way to make use of what they have.
scepia @ Mar 8th 2007 8:16PM
"Give the Wii a year"
I am seriously fearing Nintendo is settling on the non-gamer market. Not the casual gamer, not the hardcore gamer, but those that would rather click buttons to vote for stuff, or draw pictures. I mean, look at Wii Play and Big Brain Academy: both crap. Both incredibly short and useless. While Brain Age was great on the DS, it would seem that Nintendo shoves exclusively Mario and Zelda for the hardcore, and exclusively mindless crap for the non-hardcore.
Killer @ Mar 8th 2007 8:16PM
@ Rubang B
Yeah, that's why this american engine has been bought by japanese companies.
Ps. Ghost rider sucked and so did the Coventant. I never even saw them, because I could tell they would suck. People in America are just really bored I think and they believe anything that is on the tv more then 20 times. All those ghost rider commercials, my god.
For everyone else:
I bought a new console for one reason: (two really though: stupid microsoft stops supporting the xbox.) The one reason is an upgrade on graphics. Finally the console is able to be graphic comparable to a high-end pc without costing the same. I could really careless on how the game is played. I don't want to play the same graphic games over and over. Face it people, graphics and gameplay are the combo that wins. I mean if it was gameplay only, then we would still be in 2-d graphics.
boo @ Mar 8th 2007 8:17PM
"Good thing I don't give a crap about American developers anyway."
That's not a blanket dumbass statement or anything. You're on such a higher plane than the rest of us living in squalor and playing games from US developers.
How about we make some more blanket statements like "japanese only play manga rape simulators" and "eurotrash football hooligans wank it on the virtual pitch".
Dumbass pretentious moron.
jaysins @ Mar 8th 2007 8:28PM
@ Z-247
The reason the Unreal 3 engine is so popular is that it does a lot of the more tedious and expensive jobs of development for the engineers. It also supports a lot of the more new techniques for making games look better such as HDR, per-pixel lighting, and dynamic and soft shadows and presents developers an easy way of adding such code and effects into their game instead of them having to code it themselves. It also has support for physics built in, I believe using Ageia's PhysX. This leaves more time and money left over for making the story better or enhancing other elements of gameplay. Even further optimizing other code to make the game run more quickly. Or if nothing else helps studios spend less time and money making a game. The Unreal 3 engine apparently does all this well, or I'd assume so judging by the support it has garnered. It just is a good tool for developing games.
Crackjaw @ Mar 8th 2007 8:37PM
You guys act as if there is a definitive split in the road between gameplay and graphics. A game with great graphics can't be equally fun? Why has the Wii become synonymous with great gameplay? Besides Zelda, most of the games look like rubish and have received reviews that relfect that.
I honestly don't blame American developers for bashing on the Wii, in might not be to the consumers benefit, but most are probably just lashing out for the treatment they have endured in the 90s. Nintendo was basically that infamous "big evil corporation" at the time, but what the hell does anyone here care? Most of you were still wetting the bed around that time.
scepia @ Mar 8th 2007 8:42PM
"Nintendo was basically that infamous "big evil corporation" at the time"
Ah, the Sony and Microsoft of today. So you mean to say that the Windows monopoly is the greatest thing to ever happen, and that Sony was justifyed to make a console $500 and above, and constantly brag about it's power, expecting developers to come as if on a leash?
bubka @ Mar 8th 2007 8:45PM
i can actually hear this guy getting fatter
Darkness @ Mar 8th 2007 8:50PM
"Darkness, Gears of War does not sell +3 million copies on just being a pretty game -- it has really fun gameplay as well. Grand Theft Auto is not graphically impressive, but it is also fun. Then there's Halo... the list goes on and on. Perhaps the soapbox under your feet made it harder for you to see that.
Just because you may decide to develop a game for the Wii does not mean it'll automatically be fun. The Wii already has games that are not fun using the Wiimote. Whether or not the Wii can run a full version of the UE3 engine probably will not make much of a difference in terms of fun gameplay either, developers will find a way to make use of what they have."
I understand what you're saying. And I've played Gears of War as well as the other games you mentioned. In my opinion, these games are just more of the same with prettier pictures. I'm not saying they're not fun. But when you can pick up the game without ever reading the manual, and know the button layout and what things do by instinct, then something is wrong. Either I've been playing too long, or games haven't changed much in the last few years. And don't take that wrong, because some of those games are fun. I bought Doom 3, Half Life 2, Halo, Jade Empire, Fable, etc. They were good games, but it's time for a change. A change into what, I don't know, but a change all the same.
Unfortunately, at the rate we're going no one is changing anything. The PS3 is using the same controller it's been using for years and the Xbox 360 controller is still pretty much the same as the Xbox controller, but sleeker and admittedly more confortable. The only real changes has been the graphical powers of the systems. Maybe more refinements in the UI. Basically, it's the same as it's always been. My issue with the American developers has to do with vision. It's a narrow minded vision. It's more of the same things with prettier pictures. Not to say "different' games won't be created, but we've kinda reached a peak and a lot of gamers I know are simply bored like I have been for the past few years.
There are developers who have been calling for people to take some chances with games, but the guys with the money just don't see it that way. It creates this strange conversation between the developers and publishers.
Making games does not instantly make the game good. I think we all understand that, but it does mean you have to take a bit more care about what you make. Not all games we've played over the years can simply be "ported", but it does lend itself to trying new things. I'd much rather see games go the route of trying something different, than playing the same stuff we've been playing all these years. I want to see some of the games we've been playing before realized again with the new controls, if nothing else than to see if anyone can do it. And from what I've heard from the inside, it's hard with the Wii. Real hard, and a lot of developers are intimidated by that. In some ways, that's to be expected, but with all things new, there will be those who fight the change.
As I've said many times, graphics mean nothing. They age faster and can have a negative effect on the game quicker as the game ages. Good gameplay (or games built around strictly gameplay) can be timeless. Which is why people can go back to Diablo after all these years and get the same enjoyment out of it that they did when it was new. It's a lot harder to go back to a game like FFXIII as the graphic simply haven't aged well, but the gameplay is good, so you keep playing.
Anyway, I've gone on long enough. Everyone has their opinion about this thing, but I think with the American developers it's a fear of change and the challenge of creating something for the platform. That doesn't mean it won't happen, but this will have to be a gradual change, because all we've known over the years is graphics with each new generation. This time it's something different. Some develoeprs are afraid of a "Wii Future", but perhaps embrasing the idea will do everyone some good including the core gamer.
Crackjaw @ Mar 8th 2007 8:54PM
@ 23
I'm not defending Sony or Microsoft, they have made very arrogant moves also. I'm trying to knock Nintendo off this very high horse everyone seems to want to put it on.
REUYL @ Mar 8th 2007 9:03PM
And we've known this for HOW long now?
SB @ Mar 8th 2007 9:04PM
Textbooks should be fun. Can't wait to spend another 80 bucks on something that the teachers will never use. Though it may be a good thing to keep in a personal collection.
ggoofer @ Mar 8th 2007 9:31PM
"The Wii is taking a beating this week at GDC by American developers. Between hushed conversations and public displays, it isn't pretty."
Anyone able or willing to expand, beyond these two instances? Just wondering about the hushed conversation. Are people saying "Wii PHA1L!11" or what
Unit @ Mar 8th 2007 9:33PM
you guys should see the interveiw he did on the 1up show, one of the interviewrs told him that gow looks similiar to unreal tournament3 and hew got annoyed and said no it didn't, they look like two completly different games..lol. Im not shittin on any of the games but, you know your damn games are similiar when at first you see it, you immeadeatly know it was made with the unreal engine. I would like to see those guys do something radically different that doesn't involve bad ass soilders in bulky space/combat suits with giant guns blasting aliens....again
Rubang B @ Mar 8th 2007 9:42PM
@Grindstone, You're right. I have no games made by Bungie (are there more than 2?), Take Two, or Epic, and I'm a pretentious prick. I will be buying Spore though, and I'm not against buying a hypothetical American game that actually interests me.
My pretentious comment was in response to the blog post's first 2 sentences: "The Wii is taking a beating this week at GDC by American developers. Between hushed conversations and public displays, it isn't pretty."
And comment #8 said it seemed like most of the push for graphics was coming from American developers.
What I meant to say was "Good thing I don't give a crap about developers who give too much of a crap about graphics updates and high shader architectures." Most of them from America, but yes I made a boo boo.
Rubang B @ Mar 8th 2007 9:43PM
@Grindstone, You're right. I have no games made by Bungie (are there more than 2?), Take Two, or Epic, and I'm a pretentious prick. I will be buying Spore though, and I'm not against buying a hypothetical American game that actually interests me.
My pretentious comment was in response to the blog post's first 2 sentences: "The Wii is taking a beating this week at GDC by American developers. Between hushed conversations and public displays, it isn't pretty."
And comment #8 said it seemed like most of the push for graphics was coming from American developers.
What I meant to say was "Good thing I don't give a crap about developers who give too much of a crap about graphics updates and high shader architectures." Most of them are from America, but yes I made a boo boo.
Catprog @ Mar 8th 2007 9:49PM
18
With regards to Wii play what did you expect for a $10 game.
Rinks @ Mar 8th 2007 9:50PM
Hey, fanboys- put your guns away. The Wii doesn't have the horsepower to run this engine- does this really surprise you?
And no, it doesn't just "do graphics", no matter what "indie developer" says. It's the whole package, and the list of what it can do is pretty stunning.
There's no reason for Nintendo Fanboys to give a (good) developer shit for stating a FACT. He's not calling your precious system a piece of crap, he's not dissing your game design, he's just stating a fact in answer to a question posed to him. Can Wii run the unreal 3 engine? No, it can't. No amount of bitching, moaning, and whining is going to make that system an ounce more powerful than it is.
This shouldn't come as a shock to any of you- there's a reason the system costs 250 and they make money off every single one they sell. You can talk about how it's all about gameplay and not graphics, and that's fine- but don't gloss over the fact that the hardware is also responsible for AI, logic, physics, and everything else.
Your system is successful, enjoy it. If nothing else, Miyamoto will be able to make great games with it, and you'll be waving your arms at the TV for years to come.
nick @ Mar 8th 2007 9:53PM
"I've come to the conclusion that American developers are ALL about the graphics."
I disagree. And I could make a case and say the same for European or Japanese developers.
There's been games released from all over the world that are style over substance.
I think developers are attempting to achieve new heights and continually push themselves, and I think consumers play a part in it all, by purchasing the products.
Anyone remember text adventure games? Infocom comes to mind. The whole game basically played out in your mind, based on what you read. Today, you'd be hard pressed to find new text based adventure games. Graphical adventure games were simply more desirable by the public.
Unit @ Mar 8th 2007 9:58PM
@#18, so would you consider dead rising mindless? or how bout lost planet? cuz laast time i checked i don't think i've used my brain at all to play either of those games. hell lost planet mad it even easier with the "shoot the big bright orange spots to kill me nonsense on the enemies" it may be mindless to you cuz you don't like that stuff and the same can be said about a whole lot of other games, Hey,have you ever played Nintey nine nights? that game is the epitmy of mindlessness!!
scepia @ Mar 8th 2007 10:05PM
"so would you consider dead rising mindless? or how bout lost planet?"
No, you have to actually think, and there are actual things to do. Whereas the Votes Channel is just a gloryfied [yes/no].
scepia @ Mar 8th 2007 10:07PM
"There's been games released from all over the world that are style over substance."
I am curious as to these games. Seriously, i see Okami, Viewtiful Joe, and Brain Age.... from Japan, Japan, and Japan.
Unit @ Mar 8th 2007 10:08PM
@#35, i think he may be alittle right about american studios(or the majority of them) focusing more on gfx's first than everything else. When you sit back and look at it all, look where the most crazyiest games console wise(good and bad) have come from. It sure wasn't here from the good ol' u.s.. Its like overseas are more open to experimenting with new ideas for videogames, where as over here our top selling game is Madden every single year.
Unit @ Mar 8th 2007 10:11PM
@#37,im just curious how much did you pay for the vote channel?.........and you are right there was things to, get from point a to point b and kill everything in your path.
Optimus Prime @ Mar 8th 2007 10:11PM
This is just a sign of things to come. Developers dont want to be limited by hardware; especially something like the wii which is based off 6 year old technology.. it sad. They want to tinker and optimise.
Why do you think Nintendo is a bit-player at a Game **Developers** Conference.
Unit @ Mar 8th 2007 10:19PM
@#41,
"Why do you think Nintendo is a bit-player at a Game **Developers** Conference."
i think the same can be asked , why is every other developer in the WORLD a bit player to miyamoto? how many lifetime achievment awards does that guy have? I lost count at after 10001
^FourthDimensionGod^ @ Mar 8th 2007 10:27PM
Wow wheres that Captain Obvious picture when you need it?
You Nintendo fanboys get so defensive, blast every system but when someone says something which happens to be true about your Wii you guys acuse them of "not getting it". STFU already. Cause you J-offs need to learn how to take criticism of your system.
Now go play your gamecube and wait for your the Circle Jerk simulator game being developed by some Japanese company.
^FourthDimensionGod^ @ Mar 8th 2007 10:28PM
i meant Wii Circle Jerk Simulator using the Wii mote
Farmer @ Mar 8th 2007 10:34PM
Yawn...oh really?
How many times are we going to have to go over the Wii not being able to run UE3?
How many times is Mark Rein going to have to be asked?
As for the Wii being 6 year-old-tech...what about that Pentium 4 you're running?
Well on to reading about Fable 2 and drooling.
Terrak @ Mar 8th 2007 10:54PM
Wow look at the Nintendo haters go. They can say what they want and when Nintendo fans argue against them you get ridiculous comments like this
"You Nintendo fanboys get so defensive, blast every system but when someone says something which happens to be true about your Wii you guys acuse them of "not getting it". STFU already. Cause you J-offs need to learn how to take criticism of your system.
"
Yeah like sony/microsoft fanboys never defend there consoles right? Wake up to yourself. But with a name like 'fourdimensiongod' i see this will be a very difficult task.
I'm pretty sure its been abundantly clear the Wii just doesn't have the horsepower the 360 or ps3 does. Get over it. SO we can't get a game that uses the Unreal engine? SO F'N what! The Wii won't get the next FPS that will probably be available for 360, ps3 and PC. Most people here didn't get the Wii for high end graphics because we knew it would not provide it - The PC, 360 and ps3 can provide that. The Wii was meant to provide something different, in other words (to those with half a brain) NOT THE SAME. Nintendo haters keep applying the same console strategy to the Wii as the ps3/360 as the reason why it will fail, and thats were you went wrong.
We didn't get a Wii for PC/360/ps3 games, we got a Wii for WII GAMES (ie games unique only to the Wii thanks to the Wiimote).
Granted it would have been nice to have a FPS using the Wiimote aiming, i'm pretty sure there will be other FPS that will fill the gap nicely.
BTW personally i hated Unreal on PC but thats me.
Optimus Prime @ Mar 8th 2007 11:06PM
"i think the same can be asked , why is every other developer in the WORLD a bit player to miyamoto? how many lifetime achievment awards does that guy have? I lost count at after 10001"
Oh PULEEEEEEEZE... 'moto is the reason that nintendo has been irrelevant in the console arena. Remember N64 and using cartridges.. who's idea was that? Yup, 'moto .. thats who.
N64 was more powerful than the PSX, but, was gimped because of the cartridge.. Nintendo has never recovered since then.
Now with Wii and the GC1.5 specs and gimmick controls.. its the same all over again. And again, its 'moto who will be at fault.
Farmer @ Mar 8th 2007 11:14PM
Optimus...specs don't mean crap everything was more powerful then the PS2 and where did that sit?
Personally I use to feel sorry for all types of fanboys becuase all you do is deny yourselfs some kick ass games on all the systems. But now I don't care and just find you all annoying idiots.
paul246 @ Mar 8th 2007 11:34PM
Everyone is talking about how American publishers aren't innovative as Japanese publishers.Example: Nintendo has made Mario, Mario, Mario, Metroid, Mario, Mario, Mario, Zelda, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Wario, Mario, Mario,Zelda, Mario,...etc. Now that is innovative.