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Reader Comments (172)

Posted: Mar 8th 2007 4:29PM (Unverified) said

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"We won't truly see the next jump in AI until, when playing a game, the AI developers go, "Wow, we never told it to do that." Until then, we'll just get more complicated scripting because the developers get better and more efficient at their task."

Yeah, but isn't part of QA testing games (or at least semi-linear, plot-driven games) removing some of the uncertainty that would be created by good, unpredictable AI? I mean, playing Oblivion wouldn't be much fun if one of the Blades pickpocketed another one and they all killed each other.

I ask this because I remember the developers from Oblivion talking about how they had to dumb down the AI a bit because NPCs were doing stuff they weren't supposed to be doing, like making an evil copy of the main character who went around killing everybody. Of course, that may have just been talk. Who can verify but them?

Makes me wonder if we'll ever see great AI.

Anyhow, thanks for responding. I'm a casual observer, but I'm probably going to be doing a games blog soon for a newspaper I work for. It's nice to see someone answer questions outside my area of expertise without treating me like a nitwit.

Posted: Mar 8th 2007 4:45PM (Unverified) said

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Not sure why that double posted. Maybe I am a nitwit.

Posted: Mar 8th 2007 4:46PM (Unverified) said

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@OTAM "I'm TIRED of titles that you play for 10 minute increments that have no replay or online mode and span 3 hours."

Well, I'm tired of titles that take 10 minutes just to travel around. In many games, making progress has more to do with how much time you put into a game, than about player skill. That's fine for hardcore gamers who spend 3 hours a day gaming, but it's very unsatisfying for someone like me who only spends 3 hours per week gaming.

In the 16-bit era, I could throw on a game, play for half an hour, and complete a level or two. And it was a quality 30 minutes, because there was always an enemy onscreen or a challenge to do. Best of all, those games gave me a real sense of accomplishment because they rewarded my skill, not just the amount of time I spent.

I like Nintendo, and Microsoft's XBLA, because they are going back to the classic concept of short skill-based games!

Posted: Mar 8th 2007 5:01PM (Unverified) said

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Two duct taped Gamecubes????

More like 1 Gamecube and 1 N64 compressed into Uwe Boll's House of the Dead, Alone in the Dark and Bloodrayne movie DVD cases.

Posted: Mar 8th 2007 5:07PM (Unverified) said

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I wouldn't go as far as calling the Wii a piece of shit, but it's definitely an overpriced Gamecube and people are eating up technology that's 6 years old at a premium. Nintendo's truly the Master of Deception, or people just looooove the Mario and kiddie games.

Posted: Mar 8th 2007 9:21PM (Unverified) said

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Number 152 that is the PS3 that is compressed into House of the Dead, Alone in the Dark, House of the Dead 2, Postal and loads of other crap movies.

PS3 is the cheapest in Japan but stores have to hold sales where they have to apologize to Sony for cutting the price down. The PS3 is a disaster of gaming.

Oh ms butt slave bother to do some fact checking. The SNES destroyed the Mega Drive by over 14 million units. SNES won that console war. The SNES dominated the market with game sales and had a huge libary.

SEGA bankrupted itself numerous times. This is a fact. The SEGA Genesis had a head start on the SNES but ultimely was crushed worldwide.

Posted: Mar 8th 2007 5:33PM ill trooper said

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"Through a slide he compared the Wii to an anorexic and malnourished man. better to reason about the world their inhabiting."

Improper use of 'their,' and editing (capitalize 'B' please). I can take it from commenters, but the writer of the article?

Take some care/pride in your craft

Posted: Mar 8th 2007 5:35PM (Unverified) said

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First off, art is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder. Example: an orchestra playing Mozart is considered "artistic" by a lot of people. I consider it "nap time." So arguing over what is artistic is stupid and so is that Hecker guy.

Another thing I kept seeing mentioned was that the 360/PS3 allowed for great graphics, better AI and physics. This is BS. GoW, one of the BEST looking games out, has the WORST AI. There are games from last gen consoles that have better AI than GoW.
Most of that processing power is used for rendering the graphics of a game. The only thing that makes the physics more complicated is the number of objects being moved around on a screen (ie. ALL stationary objects don't count). There isn't really "better" physics involved, you just get to add more variables into the equation. In other words: an explosion in a game for the 360 can have more pieces flying around than an explosion on the Wii.
The formulas for Newtonian physics have been the same for centuries, it is adding more variables that make them complicated.
So, in the end game systems spend the majority of the processing power on what is displayed on your TV.

Posted: Mar 8th 2007 6:16PM (Unverified) said

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1 regardless if Zelda was a port or not the fact remains that it is a deep game, and it's played on the Wii

2 BW 2 is not out yet but my point was to illustrate that games can be deep for the system and that in the near future there will be more. so yeh to illustrate my point i can count it.

3 as for elebits IGN says "I think you're going to find hours of solid entertainment waiting here..."

so I don't even need to defend that it's not even my opinion, and i did say i haven't played it.

Posted: Mar 8th 2007 6:33PM (Unverified) said

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Alright...Wii...fastest seller of the 3 consoles outta the gate. DS...fastest selling console of all time. Anyone who argues great selling hardware are POS has no argument. Obviously, the majority has voted that hardcore gamer snob should be placed in the dump heap of history. Good riddance...

Posted: Mar 8th 2007 6:47PM NintendoFanbot said

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MS_LOVE_SLAVE

I don't consider myself unbiased.

Whatever gave you that perception?

Sega/Nintendo was largely considered 50/50. They both had a good share of the market. What's so revisionist if I say they were tightly competitive companies?

Posted: Mar 8th 2007 7:18PM (Unverified) said

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Too sadly for him, the Wii will soon be in more households than either of the other consoles. I predict by middle of 2008. He might have to develop for one of those two gamecubes ^^

Posted: Mar 8th 2007 9:26PM (Unverified) said

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Wow! I have NEVER seen any of you argue about this before! This is so interesting! I'm sure you'll show them this time, guys.

While you guys bitch and argue about games, I'll just go play some and have fun.

Posted: Mar 9th 2007 2:23AM (Unverified) said

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Graphics and realistic graphics, that all people care about today.
I guess this why the PS3 and Xbox 360 were made so powerful, because gamers today think that having realistic looking pubic hair in a game is going to make it good.

Developers and gamers today are shallow and it doesn't seem like its going to stop.

This why i hung up my controller a longtime ago. Its the same thing all the time anyway. Repeat,Repeat,Repeat.

Goodbye Videogames

No,i'm not a Nintendo fanboy.

Posted: Mar 9th 2007 3:13AM (Unverified) said

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Hey guys? The rant is supposed to be entertaining and hyperbolic. There is, at the root of Chris' rant, something that developers are really struggling with. But Chris' rant was just that - a rant, designed to entertain, provoke, and open up a truth that you readers and gamers dont normally see.

Posted: Mar 9th 2007 6:47AM (Unverified) said

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gamers are getting older. they have jobs. they have less free time. even microsoft now gets this and is pushing for more "pick up and play, short burst" games "like the DS".

The weird thing is that all GOOD maxis games have been simple games with little in the way of graphics or AI.. but whenever they tried to push either the gameplay suffered...

Posted: Mar 9th 2007 8:49AM (Unverified) said

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hahaha game developers that think they're artists, ahhh ... that is a nice way too inadvertantly give your life even less meaning by being a silly douche bag.

gotta run, i'm finishing that cure for cancer, cya

Posted: Mar 9th 2007 3:00PM (Unverified) said

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Ok, diatribe time.

Brilliant, Jack. Now we know you're an angry hardcore gamer. Not the only one. But surprise: Nintendo has been catering to the non-hardcore crowd for a long while now, because you're only a tiny segment of the market - and a shrinking one. And while we're on the oh-so-mature personal attacks...go get some sun, it won't hurt you. Much. Or at least the long-term happiness gained by leaving your basement will counterbalance any short-term pain.

There are two simple counterarguments to Hecker's little diatribe:

fun = art
and
art != graphics/cpu

If anyone has an issue with this, well, to borrow a clever expression from Jack, you're an idiot. Or someone who has such a hard time dealing with reality that you have to live vicariously through your pixel count. Oh God! 1080p! Finally, happiness comes in progressive scan!

I'm not a fanboy at all. I just despise fanboys from ALL sides of the argument.

What the whole Nintendo/Sony/MS thing really boils down to is the fact that gaming can and should be an art form, but people need to get away from the obsession. It's a game for crying out loud. Enjoy it. Have fun. But the real world is a lot crazier. I'm working towards becoming a developer, and I think a good game should be like a good book, movie, or piece of music: capable of making you think, opening your mind, or just being good old-fashioned fun. But you people are like Batman fanatics. I got news for ya: the Dark Knight is not real, never will be, and neither are Master Chief, Samus, or Cloud.

Try opening your minds and seeing how pathetic this all looks from an outside perspective. You people only give reasonable gamers a bad image.

Posted: Mar 10th 2007 2:36PM (Unverified) said

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To everyone who keep saying "He's right, the Wii sucks because I played Zelda and now it collects dust."

No shit? Newly launched console people! Every new gaming device collects dust after launch. X-Box 360 didn't have much when it came out either, and the PS3 has even less to offer than the Wii.

Posted: Mar 22nd 2007 9:36AM wigg1es said

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there are two games on the Wii that have gotten higher then a 9 on IGN, one being Zelda, one being Mario 64 on VC (shocking...). there are about 15 games on Wii that have higher then an 8, several of those also being VC games.

i might actually respect Nintendo when they come out with some good AND original, not just something from the past that they can recycle into more garbage.

i love the people who list 10 Mario games as their evidence of what is good about Nintendo.

Posted: Mar 22nd 2007 9:40AM wigg1es said

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and oh yeah, the 360 at launch, had, hmm... let's see, Condemned, PGR3 (which gets all the credit), PDZ, and one other game, what was it? oh yeah, the game of the year, COD2, which is arguably still one of the most popular multiplayer games from the next-gen, even though it was just a port.

so let's stop this crap about consoles having no games at launch, it's not that hard to get at least a few good games together, maybe even an original one or two in there.

Posted: Mar 31st 2007 3:07PM (Unverified) said

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What's wrong with enjoying the Mario, Zelda & 'kiddie games' available on Nintendo? I grew up enjoying the old Atari & Coleco games & didn't buy a new gaming system until the N64 came out. I wasn't familiar with any of the systems out at that time, but finally decided on the N64 based on the Mario 64 & the fact that there were more non-violent games that a young child could play. I still prefer Nintendo over the other systems (though I haven't been able yet to find a Wii so I cannot comment on the system itself & I have bought my son a PS2-because of the Guitar Hero game he wanted). But I prefer Nintendo because of the variety of family friendly games available. Not everyone enjoys games with a lot of graphic violence & language- which seems to be the majority of games that Xbox360 & PS2/3 sell. But it is a matter of personal choice & certainly my choice is not necessarily the next person's choice. As to games being an 'art'...you can look at anything as being art- good or bad. But I don't buy games because they are 'art', I buy games to have fun & to unwind & relax a little after a stressful workday or week.

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