Another side to Chris Hecker's duct tape rant

Vidi - Yeah, I can see your side on that, and I'd feel the same way except that I've never really been let down by any of Nintendo's first party titles. If they were churning out shoddy titles I'd say they're just riding thier names but thier just not, they're GOOD games.

Apart from SSB, Link and Samus haven't been in "just about every game", only Mario and his gang are being whored out, and even then the games with Mario and gang are good quality (Mario Party being an exception!)

I don't like the route Nintendo is taking. Many people here have stated what that route is "Making money" From a business perspective Making money is a good thing from a consumer perspective not so much. We companies only focus on making money we get watered down copies of good sellers, we are already seeing this on the Wii and it is fairly new. We see ports of popular DS games as well as many Mini Game compilations.

People keep saying all the 3rd party devs are starting projects on the Wii so they can make money. The 3rd party devs aren't interested in creating new technology they are only interested in making a quick buck. This is not going to be a good thing for us gamers. It will, however, be a good thing for Nintendo, they will make bucketloads of money.

If Nintendo is by far the largest success this generation, what do we have to look forward for the next generation? Everyone selling us old technology to make a quick buck? Selling us minigame compilations or things that have a short-term mass market appeal? Striving for the creation of a character that can sell games just because the character is in it?

This is my fear, that the industry will stop striving to push forward and instead strive to make money with things that are just "Good enough".

did any one read penny arcades take on it it makes perfect sense
" I wasn't there to hear EA/Maxis Developer Chris Hecker call the Wii "a piece of shit," but I think this is related to what I was just talking about. I understand that he apologized almost immediately thereafter, no doubt after having been beaten profusely beneath a single bare bulb by his enraged paymasters. I don't agree with his diatribe, but then, I don't live his life. I don't need to massage any functionality out of the Wii's comparatively meager chip. He's expressing a frustration about something that is an abstraction for most people. Having worked as a dishwasher and a busboy for many years, I have been a part of the machinery that produces meals. You don't want to know what goes on in those recesses - what fluids seep and flow. You really, really don't. Things... happen, back there.

I don't think we're actually supposed to see what happens at GDC, and for the same reasons. It's the Game Developers Conference, not the Media Pageview Generation Conference or any other conference. "

Aex: Well, like it or not, the average consumer just isnt' going to pay $500 for a game console, no matter if it's a blu-ray great value blah blah blah. You actually make a good argument for all 3 companies doing what Nintendo has done, creating new ways of doing old things, that way 3rd parties are forced to actually think and create rather than just bump up the number of polygons on a formula that they already know works. Which, consequently, they know they can continue to ramp up the cost of.

If you feel that a company's product isn't worth the full price, don't buy it. That's the most any gamer can do to tell the company they don't want something.

Nintendo made it easier and cheaper (non-threatening?) to develop for their system. PSP ports are not part of this plan and not Nintendo's fault. They used to do quality assurance but people complained and Nintendo just got done paying for that. So what happens next?

"Striving for the creation of a character that can sell games just because the character is in it?"

That pretty much happens with any game that has a story in it, yes. :P

When will you people stop being drawn in by Jack of No Trades? He posts specifically to troll you.

Derbeste,

I've had HD for 3 years now and it hasn't worn off yet. Hard to be a fan boy if I don't own any of the current systems. I just call it like I see it. Nintendo is doing the exact same thing they did with the N64 that they did with the Gamecube that they are now doing with the Wii as far as games go, meaning there isn't anything out there. With the Wii they went a step further and resold old hardware as new and got a lot of folks to buy into it. I compare the Wii to itself and its not impressing me. There is nothing on it that says "buy me!" The games bore me, the control is a gimmick, and the hardware is uninspiring. This is coming from someone who has owned every nintendo system. A year from now we'll all be sitting here having the same conversation. The number of good games for the Wii will be countable on one hand, the controller will still be a gimmick and not heavily used for much of anything and the Wii will have dropped in price to $99 to urge on more sales. I predict that Nintendo will pull a Sega and sit out the next round permanently. They should have done it this time but what they put out seems like a last ditch effort.

Yes, graphics do not make the game but there is no reason these days to not have both. Gamers should be demanding both!

And we respond to Jack of No Trades for the same reason he trolls us; to pass time :D

@NintendoFanbot

""Striving for the creation of a character that can sell games just because the character is in it?"

That pretty much happens with any game that has a story in it, yes. :P"

I havn't noticed this trend since Playstation 1 and the creation of Crash Bandicoot. I guess you could put Jak into that, because of the whole Jak X racing thing... What I meant is we don't see companies creating characters to be carried across different genres of games anymore. A Mascot character one could say.

Back in the SNES/Genesis era how many games were Sonic or Mario based? Nintendo has been one of the only companies to carry their characters over to other genres to boost sales. This is not to say the games aren't fun or good, but the copying of it has stopped since Nintendo went on the decline. We don't see games Kratos Racing, Kratos Golf, or Kratos Pinball spinoff games that often anymore, like we did back in the time of the SNES/Genesis when Nintendo was Boss. If they are able to reach the top again I think it is likely we will see a return of this, tho it is entirely possible I am completely wrong :0

But creating a game based on where you're supposed to care for a character could apply such expansive genres like RPGs, or even sports games games where the 'Create-a-player' is you.

Instead now you've got games where the 'epics' are made to last 3 games rather than 1. Instead of [insert character name here], you'll see [insert franchise name here]. Halo Wars. Jak X. It hasn't change that much.

Though I do acknowledge that the decline of the brand mascot (like Cool Spot, etc.) was the end of a long-running issue in earlier generations. But that could said right now with all the pointless Sonic sidekick characters too. :P

I wouldn't count on lame 'mascot' characters making comebacks. Though it's unavoidable that if a company like Nintendo brings out a new IP it'll probably be based around some character that ends up being famous enough to be a mascot.

Speaking of player generated characters, I really like the idea used in Rainbow Six Vegas for the Xbox 360. I'd like it if more games would implement the Vision Camera to map your face onto characters in game. I'm very tempted to go pick up R6:vegas just for that reason o.o

Sorry, I don't really buy this defense. I respect Pallister's wish to defend a colleague, but the arguments just don't hold water. You can't fault the Wii for doing what it set out to accomplish, and you can't argue that Hecker was constrained by it either since he's developing for the PC. Just because you don't like the tool (i.e., the Wii) doesn't mean it's poorly made, just unsuited to your task.

Geoff
http://www.alinktothefuture.com

(more on this at the blog)

"I predict that Nintendo will pull a Sega and sit out the next round permanently"

ahahaha, we're starting this already? Wii has only been out for 4 and a half months!

Michael...

I get your point. I understand your frustration. Graphics are something you like. There is nothing wrong with that.

But not everyone is like that. I TRULY don't care if I have both. Graphics are barely icing on the cake to me.

You know what games I've been playing MOST in the last month?

FFVI advance and WoW.

Neither have been haralded for their graphical prowess.

Now...I know that many are not like me. But the difference I see between Wii proponents and MS/Sony proponents is that Wii fans aren't telling people what to like. Sony fans in particular, on the other hand, seem somehow threatened if you're not big into what the PS3 offers. Likewise, this Hecker guy seems to think that if you aren't putting all your prioritees into AI, then you're a douche.

My feelings are, if you want both....BUY BOTH!

I don't.

(however, I'll be the first to admit Sony made a GIFUCKINGNORMOUS leap in a better direction at GDC with "Home".)

Yeah, just ignore Jack of No Trades. I'm still waiting for him to answer my question 2 pages back. He has decided to forgo answering, because he can't guarentee something that is completely biased and based on his own views. What a troll.

112. Derbeste,

"I've had HD for 3 years now and it hasn't worn off yet. Hard to be a fan boy if I don't own any of the current systems. I just call it like I see it. Nintendo is doing the exact same thing they did with the N64 that they did with the Gamecube that they are now doing with the Wii as far as games go, meaning there isn't anything out there. With the Wii they went a step further and resold old hardware as new and got a lot of folks to buy into it. I compare the Wii to itself and its not impressing me. There is nothing on it that says "buy me!" The games bore me, the control is a gimmick, and the hardware is uninspiring. This is coming from someone who has owned every nintendo system. A year from now we'll all be sitting here having the same conversation. The number of good games for the Wii will be countable on one hand, the controller will still be a gimmick and not heavily used for much of anything and the Wii will have dropped in price to $99 to urge on more sales. I predict that Nintendo will pull a Sega and sit out the next round permanently. They should have done it this time but what they put out seems like a last ditch effort.

Yes, graphics do not make the game but there is no reason these days to not have both. Gamers should be demanding both!"

And you know what, we do... there is a big difference between "good graphics" and "cutting edge" and honestly your talking about cutting edge... if you truly feel that strongly about that you should stick to pc gaming cuz thats the only thing that will make you happy.

I've read A LOT on what the wii is capable of, and to tell you the truth it realy is quite impressive, a lot better than most people assume (and better than the games have shown thus far) but thats a big part of this argument, if a developer couldn't push the gamecube to it's limits, and none have come close on the wii, why would I assume they can handle the 360?

When Nintendo said that they feel graphics have reached a point where there isn't a place to go, they didn't mean forever... just that for now PS2 graphics are enough for most gamers, and the "last gen" hardware which developers didn't even reach the full potential of is enough because now devs can (and havn't) concintrate on gameplay and story more. but hopefully that will change.

@Yardman "you would not catch me playing that shit."

Why are you concerned about what video game system people catch you playing? Do you feel that your image is defined by what video game system you play? Do you feel that people will think you're cool if you play a PS3 and lame if you play a Wii?

Open your eyes. Playing a particular video game console does not make you cool - cool people don't play hardcore video games, because their lives are too full of living to waste time pwning kids online or grinding to increase their level. Stop using video games to stroke your ego and play for fun.

Why is it that a last gen game like God of War 2 looks 100x better than anything available on the Wii?

So, yea, the point that is made is valid... fanbois are letting Nintendo get away with worse than last gen graphics all in the name of gimmick (more like gimped) control schemes that make the game worse in all cases except for point and click games.

Jack Thompson is just two politicians duct taped together!

"Product X is just two product V's duct taped together."

;)

#33, Evan,

You could not be more wrong. The Wiimote is just a bluetooth device that relays acceleration information. Any first year CS student can wrap their heads around the equations to control its input and gesture recognition. Thats why it took about two weeks for some CS students to write a darwin driver for the device that can recognize the acceleration data and do gesture based input.

You obviously have no idea what it takes to do decent AI, how much memory and calculations it takes, then multiplying that buy a level full of different baddies. You clearly don't make games.

Correction. The Wii is a duct taped Gamecube, period.

"Some people like better games than just Mario/Zelda.
I would play Blue Dragon & GTA anyday over Mario/Zelda."

Mario and Zelda, Mario and Zelda. Why it that some people can't see beyond those games in their argument? And why is it always about Nintendo games vs. every other great game out there? They're third-party games, theoretically, they could me made on the system too. And oh, please, don't give me that Wii lacks power nonsense. Just a couple of years ago, it was all how PS2 was great, technically weaker, but "it's all about the games." Now it's all Wii is so weak (despite being more capable than the might PS2) and how people can't suddenly see any possible way that a great game can be on it. Does every game that isn't on the 360 or PS3 graphic level suddenly became PS1 graphics to you?

Furthermore, why are people even arguing between 360 graphics vs. PS3 graphics? Maybe it's not the system really, maybe it's the people. Maybe they're just operating on suggestions. Maybe if you tell them they're looking at a 1080p they'll believe it even though it's really 720p. Heck, some believe the PS2 is more powerful than the Cube. Some even argue power based on CPU clockspeed (i.e. Cube vs. Xbox CPU power) and swear they can tell the difference despite the fact that most multiplatform games look exactly the same (i.e. no difference in resolution and such). After all didn't many people buy multiplatform games on the Xbox instead of their other system? They just assume it would be better in performance. Power of suggestion perhaps?

I'd bet that if the Wii had many of the best third-party games out there, you'd look the other way when it came to the weaker specs. In fact, you'll enjoy yourselves. Which only brings up the question: What the heck are you people constantly arguing about?

Buy a Wii, buy a 360, buy a PS3, buy two, buy all. Buy the games you want and enjoy. Nothing you want, then hold off til you do. It's not a race. What, you think you'll get some reward for getting a great gaming experience? What are you bragging about? Your playing in HD, big whoop, why are you picking on those who happens to be okay with a system like the Wii? People like the 360 and PS3? That's great, stop telling them as if they can't have fun despite the usual controls. Y'know what, despite what you may feel, there are merits to either philosophy and any system can have great games, you only need to point your frustration to those that actually make the game and (politely) ask for the games you want. And it also goes to show is that no matter what system and what controls, games can be made for it, even the iPod. It's all about how well the developers use the tools and how well they learn the ropes. Wiimote? They'll eventually master using it. Normal mapping? The same thing. From complex structures like the PS2, to the traditional PC architecture, to the Wii architecture, you can achieve great things regardless of limitation (unless it's limitations in a developer's skill).

"Why is it that a last gen game like God of War 2 looks 100x better than anything available on the Wii?

So, yea, the point that is made is valid... fanbois are letting Nintendo get away with worse than last gen graphics all in the name of gimmick (more like gimped) control schemes that make the game worse in all cases except for point and click games."

Shouldn't that mean it's the developers we should be prodding for better results (Nintendo included but third-parties more definitely so)? At least Nintendo has Mario Galaxy and that definitely looks about as good as next gen to me. We've yet to see anything that good come out from third-parties and EA and Ubisoft are so far only starting support off of last gen products reworked for the Wii (some good, some bad) with a few original efforts (even from old franchises) probably born out of those early GameCube/Wii development kits.

If the Wii didn't do so well (and the PS3 not so well) I doubt third-parties would've cared much for it. Of course I've yet to see if this new found fame for the Wii is going to result in anything spectacular. I'm hoping for something like MGS (even a side story arc), Silent Hill, Kingdom Hearts, Assassin's Creed (-type of new and interesting concepts), FF, Tales, some fighting games (VF please, no Quest), etc. Right now, all I see from their end are pretty lackluster "filler" or bagain bin games IMO. Some like DQS, FFCB, or REUC I'm hopeful for but the information is rather ambiguous. I don't even know what Sword of Legendia is but hopefully it won't be another DQS type of game or whatever that Samurai game is.

So trust me, I personally am not letting ANY developer get away with last gen graphics (though RE4 still looks great to me) though I wouldn't necessarily mind a port of a PS2 game I think is one of its best (i.e. MGS3, FFX, or the like). Now all I can wait for now is if third-party developers will make more of an effort (and I don't consider Elebits as effort when the PS3 gets games like MGS4; and no, I don't consider power that big an issue for such games when older entries to the franchise looked pretty decent, which surely the Wii can improve upon IF they committed more to it).

"Why is it that a last gen game like God of War 2 looks 100x better than anything available on the Wii?"

Sorry, but RE4 can be played on the Wii, so obviously it has the power to do such graphics. Zelda is a GameCube port, Wario is a game that really doesn't need good graphics, and the rest is 3RD party developer lazy ports and efforts. Until Nintendo drops a real game (SMG, or even Super Paper Mario) it will set the example for those lazy 3RD party devs. Why does GoWII look better than Zelda you might ask? In God of War 2 you can't turn, press a button, and see what was behind you instantly, the camera is mostly fixed in GoWII, and that helps to make the graphics better. That's why baseball games and tennis games can run in 1080p, it just isn't as big as Zelda, or R:FoM. And Zelda could run on the freaking GameCube, so we haven't seen what the Wii can really do yet. Of course GoW2 has outstanding graphics even viewing it like this, and it's obvious they pushed the PS2 to it's limits with this one, but to say it's has better graphics than any Wii game could ever dream off is ridiculous.

@Jack of No Trades
Genji and Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire pretty much prove that The Cell is not cruise control for cool.